Blown away by this and the fact that it allegedly took armed response twenty minutes to turn up...Obviously it's still very early and facts are few and far between but it will be interesting to see how long it takes for reprisals to start happening.Be it riots, violence or whatever.This has clearly angered many people if the social media sites are anything to go by.

More importantly, my condolences to the soldier's family and may he rest in peace and hopefully justice will be done for him.

Absolutely disgusting. It's all ready kicking off in Stoke from what I've read on Facebook.

the government will do nothing ... as usual..... sorry to swear on here but they all have no balls and they are all shitbags..... i will be kicking off with my MP over this .... no more of this shit by to many do gooders

It sickens me. I am lost for words.

Mr Cameron has said we will not buckle to terrorism..... Oh really? So what are you going to do Mr Cameron? Assuming the two men survive, are you going to have them taking to court, under armed guard, imprisoned and fed for years to come, all at the tax payers expense? After all, our taxes are at this minute paying for their treatment to keep them alive.

It's believed that the guy had said an eye for an eye, so does that mean for the actions he has carried out, is willing to accept the same treatment? Or does he know that all he has to say is human rights and he will be protected?

It's just two nutters and their religion is irrelevant.

Mentioning their religion would be racist.

Pretending that even moderate members of that religion believe that any non-believers are unclean and deserve what comes to them is fallacy.

It's completely untrue that some places of worship in this country are being used as a thin facade for incitement of terrorism and paedophilia.

It's entirely politically incorrect to believe that the majority of men within a certain religion believe women to be second class citizens despite the laws that govern the countries where it is worshipped preventing women from openly showing their faces or allowing them to own property.

My dentist is a middle class chap of Muslim descent and he's never once chopped my head off.

My utmost condolences to the relatives of the murdered serviceman

Mr Cameron - he is probably better placed to start undoing the collossal damage that the Blair period has invoked on the Country than all the do-gooders currently still in positions of power abuse. Of course that is still no guarantee that change will happen (Blairs Human Rights Act puts paid to that)

As for the here and now - Things are probably just about to go pop, I think (if it hasn't started already)
Thank you Mr Blair, for shoving us back into the dark ages.

(Sorry if thats a bit political for the forum, but another serviceman has died because of that idiots 'leadership' legacy. )

If you have to be a do-gooder to see that revenge is a road with no end then I'll happily step up as a do-gooder. As Gandhi said, "An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind".

We are a civilised country, governed by laws and the people who carried out the horrific and hateful attack today will be dealt with in accordance with those laws. To do anything other makes them something special and makes us something less.

They are two thugs who will be dealt with. They are not their religion, they are not their skin colour, they are not their age, nor their gender. Their motivations were their own and their actions reflect only upon themselves.

to do nothing .....

Hmmmm. Do gooder in my context is one who believes that the person knocking 7 bells out of someone is deep down a 'good person' who should be rewarded with cuddles and gifts.

Yes, to the revenge comment,
And no to the motivation comment.

If the news reporting is properly factual then their motivation (in this event) has been following a religous book. (And it doesnt matter what version/religion of the old fable books you read as all religions ultimately lead to the start of a war).

Personally in Cameron's shoes he can do no right.

Religious views and multiculturalism is always a touchy subject.

But lets not generalise a race or religion for one groups version of what's right or wrong.
If I were Cameron I would let the dust settle for as long as I could and then act within the boundaries of the law but make strict adjustments.

The scary part is this is the country that I'm bringing my babies up in.
I would love to know what's happened in that mans life to make him walk that path and carry out such a gruesome unremorseful act.

Regardless as to what race, religion or politics this bloke is involved in, I find it totally f**ked up that someone can even do this

I feel the same about anyone who murders someone, although more shocked as to the extreme nature of this.

I feel for the soldiers family

Sad very sad.

Makes you wonder what the world is coming to.

Feel for the family of the poor bloke.

It's a disgrace, the action the reasons and what was said.
It's terrible for the family / friends and terrible for the armed forces.
What's worse is that the few are representing so many. The face of Islam is being represented by bombers, terrorists and now complete and utter nut jobs. I am almost starting to believe that there is a sub-culture out there that actually enjoys the kudos of racism and enjoys letting the whole suffer for the acts of a few. For so many years the UK (ethnic British) were represented by the few travelling football fans and for years we were branded (and still are at times) as all being the same, now it looks at though teh same will come for all muslims.
It's about time there was an amendment to the law as the motivation here is so powerful, has such a strong message that a real answer needs to be given. The risk is martordom for the perps and then more copycat actions.

Full respect to the Police for not shooting them dead - it must have been very very very tempting (as we have seen before, jean charles de menezes)

Those scumbags should be publicly executed.

The sad thing is, this sort of thing is an every day occurrence in South Africa, and what happened here yesterday is mild in comparison to what happens over there.

People are always afraid to bring race, colour and religion into it, but the statistics don't lie. The vast majority of murders in SA are carried out by blacks as hate crimes. There is also no excuse like religion. They just kill at random because they are savages and have no disregard for life. Pretty much the same as the two from Woolwich.

Sadly I find myself agreeing with Brewster's comments having spent time allowing my initial feelings of disgust and anger to subside overnight.

There's no way other people in these guy's close circle of friends and family didn't know this was on their minds. They've accumulated a massive amount of knives, machetes and firearms - you don't get those anonymously from Tesco Express!

As for an "eye for an eye" turning the whole world blind i can appreciate that view - but the way it's going there's only one section of the population inflicting such violence whilst most of the rest of us turn our cheeks....to me that's a road to nowhere for non-believers

Our country is one of the safest in terms of murder rates. Even by civilized Western standards.

Yes, occasionally we have horrific things like this that happen but it could happen anywhere. Norway (a country I've visited and would consider to be one of the safest in the world) had one of the worst mass killings of recent history. But it's random, sporadic and shouldn't incite fear into its general population.



I'm not so sure. Obviously it's very early in the reporting stage and difficult to know the true facts, but the video on the news shows a man yielding a couple of knives. One looks to be a meat cleaver, the other looks to be nothing more than a large chef's knife.

Early reports say they may have also had a gun but I didn't see this in the video. I'd say there's a strong chance of a mixture of eye witness and media exaggeration here.

Notwithstanding the above, I echo Andrews comments. This is a barbaric attack carried out by two men on another man.

If they live, they'll go to jail forever where men like the ones who have been protesting outside mosques all night will make their lives worse than they already are.

Yes, that's bound to help and wouldn't play to their 'cause' at all.

Dealing with them is a no win situation.

Apart from the horror of watching the coverage of this unfold, I am struck by two things:
1) As the attack took place yards from Woolwich Barracks and involved a serviceman and given that the ARU took 20-30 minutes to arrive, how come there was no response from within the barracks? Were they aware of what was going on (the rest of the world was), and if so was there a decision made not to respond?
2) The perpetrators have clearly gone for maximum media coverage (especially social media) of their acts and must have known there was a very fair chance that they would survive to be tried. Now that is a dilemma for the Government. I am very keen for the law to be applied as impartially in this case as all others, but it is going to be very difficult to avoid creating a soapbox for the defendants to produce more inflamatory rhetoric (possibly their ultimate goal) and jury selection might be pretty tough too.

I'm sad but not surprised to see so many reactions advocating violence against the men who did this, when the only possible outcome of that would be to gift the best possible recruitment to their demented cause.

And talk of retaliation - retaliate against whom? The perpetrators are in custody; if what is actually being discussed is lawless reprisals against uninvolved members of a community/faith group, etc then welcome to Nazi Britain.

We need to show we are more civilised by example, not less. I don't want the poor dead serviceman's memory or his family's grief cheapened by thuggery.

Also, how amazing were those women who went to try and assist the victim and talk to the killers?

This was a direct quote from the first guy on the scene who witnessed the entire event, that at least one of them had a handgun - i know they're obtainable more easily in london than elsewhere but he bought it/borrowed it from someone - that someone knows his intentions were not honourable or innocent.

I find myself almost as disgusted today by the apologists for these people. It's time that the communities from which these cabbages come root out by them before this stuff can happen. In this instance, other than a mealy mouthed typically sterile statement from the Muslim Council, what have they actually done to change?

Im only just catching up with all this....tragic & shocking.

- Shame they didn't shot the 2 guys dead....now we have to send millions on trials, imprisoning & rehabilitation.

I feel for the soldiers poor family. RIP

Well, it wasn't a direct quote, was it? You're paraphrasing someone who, if it was the same report I heard, claimed that the victim was beheaded. Not from what later reports said. More detail will clearly come out and it ought to be possible to ascertain what weapons were used.

I could probably find half a dozen large kitchen knives at home and you really can buy them in most big supermarkets. One of the perpatrators did appear to have a hand-gun, but to say that their friends must have known their plans because they had some knives is plain bizarre.

If you read the statement by the Muslim Council, it seems pretty clear. What would you prefer them to say? Like it or not, we live in a society that is governed by the rule of law.

One point I would make: these people should be tried for murder. Nothing more, nothing less.

Calling it 'terrorism' gives the act a pseudo-legitimacy; it makes it political by proxy... recall the old declension:

I am a patriot
He is a freedom fighter
You are a terrorist

Irrespective of the motives of the two culprits, this was murder pure and simple: stone age barbaric behaviour by two people rightly abhorred by both their own professed religion and the majority of the public.

Treating this as murder has two major advantages:

1) It demonstrates that the UK is, on the whole, a civilised society. In such a society, 'revenge' is a null concept and punishment/isolation is deferred to the state, with the due process of law and the assumption of innocence until proven guilty. It seems to me that this is as it should be; a vigilante society is *not* somewhere I want to live.

2) It removes the political dimension. It prevents the barbarity of the act hiding behind the justification of religion; it reveals the act for what it was.

Exactly.

I agree with Barnacle, why should two sick idiots derail justice and UK law. To kill them returns the UK to the justice standards of the 3rd world.

This whole event is bizarre, there is still remarkably little information on what happened, who was involved or why and yet everyone is jumping to sad ill informed conclusions before the facts are known.

Violence, regardless under what banner it is perpetrated, is abhorrent. But just to arbitrarily shoot these people is just as bad, and where do you stop? IMHO child abuse is just as abhorrent so shall we shoot that lot too?

These sorts of events are thankfully very rare, and the last time I can remember such a similar sick even was the killing of two soldiers in NI who were dragged from their cars to their death by a mob. However what the NI conflict has shown is matching violence with violence does not solve anything. Talks, reconciliation and learning to live with each others different beliefs is the only peaceful route, but that requires a lot of work, understanding and struggle against your own understandably human emotions and the desire for revenge.

Nutters are nutters and should be treated as such under current correct and civilised justice.

Are there such people?

I haven't heard a single comment either on the news, social media or on here that I would consider to be anything other than utter condemnation of this murder.

I wish they would call it terrorism rather than the universal, grammatically incorrect, use of 'terror', a mangling of language purely to make it sound more dramatic.

However, you are correct, this is murder pure and simple. Embellishing it in any other way (either grammatically correct or not!) does nothing other than stir up the kind of nonsense we are now seeing and hearing.

Some of the posts on Facebook today beggar belief!

Indeed, which is why I had a facebook cull this morning!

I suspect there is far more to this than meets the eye.

Well quite - you can say what you like about people who sell illegal firearms, but they are absolutely rigorous in their background checks, they go to great pains to ensure that the guns they sell won't be used for nefarious purposes and they're always happy to tip off the police if they think that one of their customers might be a bit dodgy.

We have had a great multicultural experiment foisted upon us by politicians wealthy enough that it will never affect them in the name of political correctness because it's A Good Thing™. To question this was decried as racist. No ifs, no buts - if you asked perfectly reasonable questions about integration, infrastructure, availability of housing and services, a disparity in ideologies then you were racist and not to be listened to. This is now coming home to roost.

I've read on the BBC News website that another 54 paedophile gangs are being targeted by police. Fifty-four! Now, there is a slim chance they might all be made up of white, naturalised British, middle-class men. I may be guessing, but I'll take an M please, Bob.

As with the attack carried out yesterday it is a minority of these communities actually carrying out these atrocious crimes, but there has to be complicity from their communities for these crimes to be planned and acted out. There has to be incitement within the communities for these acts to go ahead. There will a be a large section of their respective communities that either know, or strongly suspect, that these things are being planned and yet mouths are kept firmly shut whether through fear of reprisal from their community or religion, or simply that the white devils deserve what they get.

The ideologies of the liberalised west and Islam are like oil and water. There may be a little emulsification where the odd dentist embraces western culture, allows his wife to walk alongside him on the pavement, doesn't refuse his daughter an education or force her to dress like a ninja, but the larger majority will never integrate.

I've met a number of liberalised muslims who would be just as shocked and disgusted at yesterday's crime as I am. That's the difference though, *I* have met them. They have integrated into our society. They mix with the naturalised population and embrace its culture. They are educated and although they may not drink, eat bacon sandwiches, or for the females - go out looking like hookers, they do accept that in this country it is normal/acceptable to do such things.

The larger communities in places such as Luton, Leicester or Bradford don't want to integrate. They see us as a sub-species for not believing in Allah. They see women as a further sub-species for being born female. They see the armed forces as dogs doing their evil bidder's command to be killed in the street.

What are the answers to these problems? I fear that shutting the door after the horse has bolted is largely futile. The video I saw yesterday showed an African looking chap with the murdered soldier's blood all over his hands shouting Praise be Allah. He appeared to speak with a London accent. It's reasonable to suggest they he may have even been born here. Until the ruling liberal minority, living in their leafy suburbs, realise that simply being born here does not make you British we'll carry on having these problems. Until they face up to the fact that their experiment has not just faltered, but outright failed, then the wedge will carry on being driven further.

There once was a chap that spoke of feeling like a Roman, watching the River Tiber foaming with much blood. Well, the streets of London are awash with that of a British soldier...

"Only resolute and urgent action will avert it even now. Whether there will be the public will to demand and obtain that action, I do not know. All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal."