Well you will have to rip the interior out of your le and get r888 to have more of a chance. How much/where from is your turbo and is your engine fully forged.
If you had a top speed event yours would win and also a track event yours would win but not sure on a 1/4 mile.
At least the pug is not 4wd which gives you hope as it will wheels spin badly.

Is that fueled? Sure my vin plate says 700 and something kg (stock '89 1.6) I'm sure all the interior will be coming out, probably another 100kg. Still don't fancy the coupe unless the torque spread is better than the pugs

yeh thats the weight for a 1.9gti, i had one for years and thats the weight given in the book and also by a few mags like evo, great little car

my mate has a pug 309 turbo running over 340 bhp it is quick but can`t put the power down in 1st 2nd and 3rd just light up the front wheels. i have raced him at santa pod in my mk2 golf vr6 turbo over 400 bhp and i do him and my coupe does my vr6 only from pull off intill we hit 2nd ...... so i am saying coupe all the way

Iv seen a 4x4 cosworth rear engined t16 lookalike and that distroyed skylines, iv had loads of 205 Gti's and I would say if it was a track event you wouldn't stand a chance! Iv tested the 50mph into sharp right hand bends and it's a weapon, but I would agree the gti6 box is prob going to blow up, I would of uprated a 5 speed 206 gti 180 gear box as it's much quicker. I think if you do a best out of three you stand a better chance.

I really have a soft spot for the 205's.......and coupes of course :-) very keen to see how this turns out so will be watching this post with interest

If the 205 gets traction off the line, you will be eaten alive by the little Pug

The EVO lump (at least the non FQ400 variants) are relatively early-spooling so won't deliver the power with a huge thump (which is what breaks traction)

However, you can't disguise the fact that the Pug will be around 400KG lighter and that will make a huge difference

Your only hope is that he runs cheap and nasty tyres, in which case, you have a fighting chance.

However, I'd still consider stripping the Coupe - its worth 0.25 - 0.5 seconds - you should be aiming for a mid to high twelve

Hee, hee, looking forward to the video of this. As I was reading, I was thinking that the box ratios might not be ideal for the engine's T&P curves. If the GTi6 box is short ratio, it's not going help putting the power down.

My own personal wager is that you'll both spend far more than the £100 wager itself trying to win. Petrolheads rule!

1. Get some fresh semi-slick or racing slick for your coupe at least for the front, and don't put them on before hand which would alert him. Strip out the rear seats and good luck!

2. Install an electronic launch control ECU, do some testings to fine tune the setting, and hope for the best!


Have to admit that the little 205 looks to have a better spec on paper.

It'll rip you a new A-hole if he can find traction. The little Renault 5's run 11-second quarters using the standard block for instance! But you never know, if he's using budget tyres he may just wheelspin all the way!

Will budget tyres even deal with 350bhp?

Launch control unit. £120. Get it mapped to handle it by Flea.
That should give you an advantage in the launch stages.

Its gonna be close. I remember a MI16 having a go with me and getting destroyed in a straight line and i was only running 260ish, i know its a different engine etc but even if its not an easy win it should make it a bit in your favour.

Oh man, this contest is getting serious! This is going to cost you a lot more than the 100 quid beer money! Can't wait!

When I get a minute I'll ask the laws of physics and see what they say

Is an EVO engine much heavier than the standard 1.9 unit?

When are you planning to go to pod??
Think this may be a good social event
also!

But back to the topic at hand, this is all going to come down to traction, of be changes his mind and gets better rubber.... I think you may be shafted but if he does not I think you have a good shot of taking his money!
Good luck!!

Here's a video of a 205 T16 with 300BHP. Note how it lights the wheels up at 70 when it comes on boost

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWNVl_o5B_k

BTW not a real T16, it has a T16 engine with the FWD layout.

i would have thought if the guys going to the effort of installing an evo engine and 6 speed box hes not going to fit budget tyres as they will be a small part of the expenditure, it will be all about traction

Did the Gti6 box come with a LSD as standard? If not, surely the Pug is just going to spin all the power away on whichever wheel breaks traction first?

If the Pug has a LSD you are going to struggle. . . .

Fingers crossed!!

even with a good set of tyres on the pug will not make it stop spinning even with the extra weight on the front end still will light up the wheels and the gear box has not got lsd... and that power though that box is a no no he should of use the gti 180 box for the better acceleration and geared to....
what ever happens tho it is going to be a good stand off

I looking forward to it!!

He actually built a T16 205 which was the fastest front wheel drive car in britain back in the day.....And same as above the rapid acceleration isnt actually the speed but the measured wheelspin.



And no the Gti6 box does not have a LSD but it renouned for its strength standard on 300+ applications.



Right
Heres the info,
Its a Evo 6 lump running evo 8 manifolds and turbo.
Custom straight through exhaust,
will be using 215 slick tyres and has had the interior removed,but a rollcage in place.
The bhp should deinately be around 350 with the torque near enough matched.

Now dare i say that no one can actually give a clear answer.

So that you lot believe me i sneaked into the workshop late one night and took some surveilance piccys.
And let me tell you it was like mission impossible,









However if i can beat a 300bhp 4wd evo easy enough with a very experienced track driver in a previous car running 300 bhp and 300 ibs ft torque should the weight difference really be an issue as lets face it what he gains in weight loss he will lose in traction.



Now i am a little worried that my big mouth has lost me £100.

I have said it once, ill say it again, your doomed, even more so with your update on his spec

If he's running slicks with low air pressure and you're on Toyos, then you're going to lose. Both running the same tyres you'd pip it but he'd be closing fast.

I've run data through the calculator for both cars;
Pug 205 Evo;
Standard 1.9GTi *tested* weight + 50kgs
Data for friends 360bhp Evo 8
Slick tyres with same co-efficient of friction as Nigel's best drag strip run

60ft Time: 2.14
330ft: 5.33
1/8 Mile Time: 7.89
1/8 Mile Terminal: 99.4
1000ft: 10.04
1/4 Mile Time: 11.90
1/4 Mile Terminal: 124.7

400bhp Coop
Standard weight
Data predicted but based on existing car data
Standard *wet weather* toyo tyres albeit low pressure

60ft Time: 2.21
330ft: 5.47
1/8 Mile Time: 8.12
1/8 Mile Terminal: 96.7
1000ft: 10.30
1/4 Mile Time: 12.23
1/4 Mile Terminal: 120.9

Can't wait to see the actual results. Where were they dyno'd?

jonnybravoturbo have a little faith... the evo 6 lump is pushing around 286 bhp with the evo 8 turbo on it i would say it is running around 320 to 330 depends on what evo 8 turbo his has got.... if you can get a good take off you are flying but if you take off poor you have problems

Johnny, you will be over 400bhp

I used to have a 205 with the Citroen 16v engine and 45 carbs, that was knocking on the door of 200bhp (197bhp) and felt absolutely crazy !

It didn't have the turbo surge of torque but it was still a seriously quick little car.
He's going to have exactly the same traction problems you'll have because there is no weight at all in a 205 but once he's got it moving that light weight is in his favour.

I have every faith in you mate.
But just to be on the safe side,should i lose how about you bring yours down to wipe the smile off his face.


And as for 1/4 mile times i think my last projects best time was 13.8.
I would guess this one should hopefully be in the mid 12's.

i can do that ...it wont be my coupe tho i would get eaten alive i dont think 220bhp will keep up it will be my mk2 vr6 turbo

After seeing these - Id say you would have a quick car to beat!

205 394bhp

Same car

Really cant comment as you dont know the bhp - but its gonna be over 300, so...... Byeeeeeee

I'd personally think of it as a race with a modified EVO wearing Pug 205 clothes.

Don't know if that makes the prospect of failure any easier to deal with though?

Personally, I wonder how much of that EVO power the Pug is realistically going to put down. Lots of power & light car = wheel spin and poorer 0-100 times.

I only say this because years ago I had an UT pushing a lot of power. God knows how much, as it was never rolling roaded. But on full boost, it was undriveable really. The wheels would spin in 3rd.

I'd say the Coupe has a fighting chance to do this.