Going to work this morning and a complete on a motorbike rode down the nearside of the coupe whilst I was turning left!!

The didn't quite manage to stop and ended up creasing the wing and bonnet.

Before I knew it the missus was out the car and giving him a good earbashing

After I calmed her down I managed to get his details. I also told him a freind of mine (a local trafic bobby) might get a copy of these so his stupid behavour dosen't happen again!

I don't know about anyone else but I'm none too keen of motorcyclists. Alot of them are complete

Anyone got the detials of a good bodyshop cos' its not driving quite stirght

where you based?

Nottinghamshire/Derbyshire/South Yorkshire border. ie midlands.

i stand by my comments on motorcycles/undertaking in previous threads.

feel for you matey

Driving back from Norfolk tonight and a motorcycle was playing chicken with the traffic on my side of the A11. He caused the truck ahead of me to brake and swerve, then came out again and caused me to move so he could get through. No sooner had he passed me and my mirrors lit up. The car he overtook, causing me to swerve, was an unmarked police car

Knicked

No self respecting biker would ever undertake in that manner. I've seen the odd scooter do it. Infact, the other day, I saw a kid on a scooter wearing a bicycle helmet (unbuckled I may add) riding down high street in Belfast city centre.

Anyway. If he'd been a real biker, he'd have been carefully filtering down the outside of traffic, at which point an 80 yr old in a mini metro would suddenly decide (without indicating) to turn right into a non exsistant junction and the biker would have ended up in the back of an ambulance.

BTW, my deepest sympathies...not for your coop, but for you in regard of your missus. Who the fluffy duck starts giving an ear bashing to anyone who has just crashed on a motorbike. I could understand it if he'd roared down the road on the back wheel and takin out your youngster but foly huck. The maternal type is she

Jez man what's it like getting caught sneaking in at 5am on a Saturday morning. Bet you wish you knew a bloke with a motorbike helmet then

Yeh! lets slag off motorcyclist cos us car drivers never ever do any thing wrong. Refering to motorcyclist as "organ doners" I find rather offensive.

I generally find bikers are pretty good on the road. You do have to watch for them coming through when your in queues though Coincidentaly this morning I came across a nutter. Came up on my left at a roundabout and went in front of me. I had to stay behind him round the roundabout even though he was slower than me As we exited onto a DC he winds it up and is heading very close to the offside wing of a transit van as he accelerates into the outside lane. He looks over his shoulder quickly as he does this but it would have been far too late if it wasn't clear. As he clears the van he's back into the lefthand lane to undertake some other traffic and decides a wheelie is the best way of doing this

In his defence on the quick look c2d. Most of us used to bikes are guilty of that. It doesn't take very long to realise if you are accelerating (and it dont even have to be red lining) theres no average car going to be on your tail. Not even magic 3rd on the coop compares to winding on my old humble 600 bandit. It's just not going to be there.

i'm always very vigilant about bikers and especially so in towns/cities - the worst thing is, you never know which side they're going to come past on

Four wheels good. Two wheels bad.

It's a gross generalisation I know, and in fairness some of my best friends are bikers/cyclists so I know that a great many two-wheelers are responsible and considerate road users... and that they all too often get a rotten deal out of sharing the road with us four-wheeled types.

That said a shocking number of both bikers and cyclists are utter and two wheeled vehicles easily account for 90% of the most terrifyingly reckless behaviour I've seen on the roads.

On the bright side of your ding phat, at least it was low speed and nobody was hurt... my sympathies though: it bites when someone else's carelessness damages your pride and joy.

And that is, without any doubt, the most important part of any collision, and often has to be repeatedly pointed out to the protagonists at the scene.

Metal can be repaired, heck it can even be replaced if the worst came to the worst but try putting a heartbeat back into a lifeless body.........

Very deep stan, very deep

A good point, well made.

See, if you had been a biker yourself, you'd have CHECKED your LH side before making the turn.

Let those 4-wheel-only motorists who have never had an accident or completed a dodgy manouevre cast the first crash helmet.

Biker Bashing....ZZzzzzzzz....about as predictable as religious quarrels.

Speaking purely for myself, I wasn't bashing. The Animal Farm reference was supposed to be semi tongue-in-cheek.

The fact that you can wriggle a bike into unexpected places/accelerate very quickly does mean that some bikers are tempted into unpredictable behaviour and irresponsible manoeuvres putting themselves and others at risk.

Car drivers are far from innocent as a group too, but they don't pop up unexpectedly where they're not supposed to be. Nor do responsible bikers, it's just that the irresponsible drivers are kept from certain brands of idiocy by the physical constraints of being in a car.

Bit harsh that, most motorbikers are very careful, and with good reason to be fair as 60% of car drivers are useless!

Bad luck, but lay off bikers!

G

I agree, bikers only do what car drivers wish they could in traffic situations. Still think they blame car drivers too much - most of the time you don't expect a vehicle to be travelling at speed in stationary traffic 2 lanes = 2 vehicles not 2 cars and a bike!

Well the stats show that 50% of all RTAs involving a motorbike have been caused by car drivers, and as the police appear to be perfectly accepting of motorcycles filtering through traffic in a responsible manner, I'd suggest you rethink your two lane equation.

sorry to hear about the coupe.

whether on two wheels or four, observation is key.

Personally i'm always checking my lh mirror in the coupe (not saying you dont btw, just making a general statement), as a matter of course, even on motorways etc, never have too much observation.

On the bike as well, always have to look around, and remember that it doesnt matter who's in the right & wrong I have to give way -its going to hurt me more even if i'm in the right!

Idiots on two & four wheels everywhere, some intentionaly reckless, others just daydreaming or whatever with no clue whats going on around them, i think the latter are worse TBH, as you can spot the recklessly (aggresive ?) drivers and plan for it as you approach, and they often have fairly good awareness (probably looking out for rozzers!), though not always.

Anyway, hope its fixed soon, seems like an open & shut case as far as insurance are concerned

anyway,

Quite. Looking at the cars is a mistake; you need to know where the *gaps* are and how they're moving (and changing size) relative to you.

Once you have that sorted in your head, it's easy to tell when a space suddenly isn't where it ought to be, as in full of bike!

I generally find bikers are a damn sight more aware than car drivers - probably because most of them also drive cars.

Plus, as a cyclist, the amount of times I've had car drivers half overtaking me, and then slamming on their brakes to turn left, leaving me with nowhere to go but into their car...

That said, bikers are a million miles away from cyclists, most cyclists seem to be suicidal. Hopefully at some point some sort of test/insurance will occure, so they're responsible for their actions. I hate the way so many of them just presume that you'll see them cutting in and out, and that you'll move to accomodate them however much like a **** they ride.

As said above I assume as an experienced(?) driver you checked your LH mirror before signalling* and before manouvering? Yet somehow you missed a bike? If he was in your blind spot he should then have been within your peripheral vision while checking your LH mirror.

Seems like there were two at fault here. Perhaps your missus should have given you a gobfull as well?

* I also assume you are one of the few drivers who appear to know how to use indicators!

The phrase "Lies, damned lies, and statistics" springs to mind out of curiosity john where are your stats from?

I think Muzzie was pretty much spot on with his "equation" and more to the point, he's nailed the crux of this: it's not that bikers are reckless and drivers are saints, it's that bikers have more opportunities to take chances than drivers do.

Does "filtering through traffic in a responsible manner" equate with slamming up the inside too fast to stop in time when a car in front turns right left? (which is what the biker who hit phat's Coupe was doing).

I did a (completely subjective and unscientific) "pub poll" of a few friends who are bikers (and whose judgement I respect) about passing on the inside. The consensus seemed to be that as rule they wouldn't, but under certain circumstances they'd bend that rule... which kinda reinforces the point above. The problem isn't that bikers are reckless, but that bikers have more opportunities than drivers to bend their own rules.

Firstly you'll note that I said filtering on the inside was not something any sensible biker would do Splateagle. Mind you I'm the sort that will tut at the sight of motorbike sitting 2 feet of the kerb rather than well positioned firmly in their lane. And tut when I see bikers dragging their feet as they accelerate off the lights in a look at me in my drag stance kinda way.

If a bike is flying up the inside how would a car turning right be a problem???? Oh and I cant see how the guy could have been 'flying' as you put it, and walked away unscathed. That just isn't very likely at all, now is it?

As for the stats, they come straight from a government bike awareness campaign thats been running over here for quite some time.

And having held a full bike licence since the mid 80's and currently having 13 yrs no claims on my bike insurance, I don't really need to do a poll to understand biking, bikers and what they do and dont do on the road.

Filtering is perfectly acceptable behaviour. And if car drivers aren't prepared or willing to take the actions of all road users into consideration then they shouldn't be on the road in the first place.

easy there john, I wasn't meaning to pick holes in your stats, I was just curious where they came from, government stats are renowned for being unbiased and reliable after all

(seriously though thanks for pointing out my glaring goof - I meant left of course! now fixed)

"Flying" is a relative term, what would be a low speed in some circumstances might be reckless in others - for instance 10-15mph probably wouldn't have injured the rider but could still have been too fast to stop. That's all I meant. Clearly whoever this guy was was going too fast to stop so "flying" seemed reasonable.

My point (again) is that the issue here isn't demonising bikers, it's noting that bikers have more opportunities to things that might be considered reckless.

I couldn't agree more that all road users should take the actions of all other road users into consideration. On passing my test I was wisely advised by an elderly aunt to "drive as if everyone else on the road doesn't know how" (and she was a total loon behind the wheel, neatly underlining her point!) but there are limits.

However defensive of bashed bikers you may feel, I don't think it's fair to suggest that on this occasion the driver was at fault is all.

I never suggested phat was at fault.

I was just defending the bikers right to filter, although not on the inside.

In saying that there's friends of mine dont like filtering so rarely do it. I on the otherhand did it all the time. So much so after a 5 year spell of exclusively riding a bike, found myself having to hit the brakes at a set of traffic lights as I automatically went to filter, forgeting for an instant I was now in a car!

WRT my earlier post, although I don't think he was entirely at fault, he certainly contributed to the accident by not being aware of the bike on his LH side. Whether or not the bike should have been there, it would appear he turned left without checking his mirror. Now it may be because I ride a bike, but I never turn left or right in a car without checking my mirrors and glancing over the relevant shoulder.

It's called a lifesaver. On a bike it might save mine. In a car it just might save someone else's.

NB By turn L or R I mean any deviation to L or R ie changing lanes, overtaking, joining a motorway/dual carriageway et al.

I do that too RK, rear view mirror, wing mirror, then the old life saver over the shoulder. Definately a bike habit that follows you into the car

Ah! Makes much more sense - thanks for the clarification I'd not understood that - I've no problem with bikers filtering on the outside, inside is another kettle of badgers...



been there! (not on a bike mind, but the old autopiloting thing gets us all)

As for RK's lifesaver - totally agree... is it just me that finds the Coupe has a honking great blind spot over the right shoulder? I used to usually check over the shoulder but after my first week in the Coupe it became automatic after discovering (in a blood-ran-cold kinda motorway moment) that there could be a LWB transit hiding back there and I'd not have seen it in the mirror!

Never sure if it was the car or just my driving position but a good lesson to have learned either way I reckon.

Same here, I always do as well. It's a very good habit to get into, but I'm sure mine is/has dervied from riding a bike.

In fact (and I'm dead serious) I think it would make car-only drivers MUCH safer & much more aware if a bike test was part of getting your car licence (and maybe vice versa if you only wanted a bike license?). Unless you use both modes of transport, perhaps you don't appreciate the other one's viewpoint (and I mean that in all respects, not just how your rearview mirror works).