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even better handling?
#708441
16/11/2008 14:07
16/11/2008 14:07
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367 Staffordshire
Nigel
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Forum veteran
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OP
Forum veteran
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367
Staffordshire
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I already know my Coupe handles fairly well, but I was sure I could get better turn-in with a little more negative camber at the front. So, I've bought myself some Eibach camber bolts and a camber / castor gauge I've measured my camber and found that I have over half a degree difference between sides, and that my driver's side has zero degrees of camber. I'm pretty sure that a degree of negative camber on both sides will make a load of difference Should be able to get it done on Thursday when the car is at Motormech for some other bits & pieces. Once I've finished tinkering, I will be hiring the gauge out to anyone that wants to check their own car
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Re: even better handling?
[Re: Jumeirah]
#708464
16/11/2008 15:08
16/11/2008 15:08
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 260 Scotland
F927UBS
Making a profit
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Making a profit
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 260
Scotland
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Hi Nigel, I've done this mod myself. Have messed around with the settings and have found 1 deg negative with std toe in best. I'm currently running this set-up
Eibach/Bilstein Upper and lower braces New wishbones New Top mounts Camber bolts
Cheers Tim
Back in the game
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Re: even better handling?
[Re: F927UBS]
#708492
16/11/2008 16:07
16/11/2008 16:07
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,095 highlands
jimboy
Club Member 857
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Club Member 857
Forum is my life
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,095
highlands
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ive been posting in another thread about handling & more or less have done the full suspension package apart from the arb,s....i don't do any track days, but i do like to DRIVE the coop when the opportunity arises : :D...i cant believe how more planted it feels now, i,m putting off the arb,s at the moment, but the big question for me is....is it going to make even more of a difference, & are they difficult to fit ........jings I'm going to have to stop sometime sorry to detract from oringinal post.....Jim
Last edited by jimboy; 16/11/2008 16:10.
I'm an old git & happy with it,most of the time
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Re: even better handling?
[Re: jimboy]
#708495
16/11/2008 16:24
16/11/2008 16:24
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,034 Sweden
Per
I need some sleep
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I need some sleep
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,034
Sweden
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Jesus.. You're in for a shock Nigel! I have -1.25deg camber (which was max for H&R bolts), works well for both road and track. Be sure to use the correct torque to tighten them, I've read about snapping camberbolts (probably too tightened).
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Re: even better handling?
[Re: Nigel]
#708496
16/11/2008 16:26
16/11/2008 16:26
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suba
Unregistered
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suba
Unregistered
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Nigel - with your suspension go for -1.3 neg on the front. It made the front end on mine bite a lot harder when I was on the same suspension. You may find that when it does dig in the car can feel a bit like it 'flops' onto the front outside wheel. You will certainly have to have the front dampers set to hard IMO when you want handling. When I got to this stage I had the choice of a whole suspension change or adding an uprated front ARB to go with the rear one, but then I'm pretty fussey.
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Re: even better handling?
[Re: Per]
#708559
16/11/2008 18:31
16/11/2008 18:31
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 260 Scotland
F927UBS
Making a profit
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Making a profit
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 260
Scotland
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oh yeah, forgot about my roll bars 22mm whiteline rear and dedra 4x4 front with uprated drop links... Did make a hugh difference... cheers tim
Back in the game
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Re: even better handling?
[Re: F927UBS]
#708650
16/11/2008 21:03
16/11/2008 21:03
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sediciRich
Unregistered
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sediciRich
Unregistered
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just for info my race car has -4 on NSF, -3 OSF
and the rear really could do with neg camber about -2.5 as I wear only 2 inches of the outside of the rear tyre. Get some neg rear and you'll be flying. I have many idea of the rear, and very good contact who could do the work.
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Re: even better handling?
[Re: F927UBS]
#708652
16/11/2008 21:05
16/11/2008 21:05
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Taz
Unregistered
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Taz
Unregistered
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Nigel, if you ever DO fit the camber bolts, ALWAYS fit them in the UPPER hole, else they may shear in the LOWER position, all about leverage.
Also, make SURE that you use the CORRECT torque value, as they are an M10 shank on them.
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Re: even better handling?
[Re: Jimbo]
#709121
17/11/2008 18:13
17/11/2008 18:13
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circolo
Unregistered
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circolo
Unregistered
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Just as an aside. Although your handling with negative camber is going to improve - how will this affect tyre wear? I know on the Uno T, I owned donkeys years ago, some negative camber was dialled in, but we had major issues with inside of the tyre rims wearing very quickly. I think if you run negative camber, in order to preserve the inner edge of the tyre as best as you can, you may need to dial in a small amount of toe-out, or at least perfect toe...?
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Re: even better handling?
[Re: ]
#709126
17/11/2008 18:21
17/11/2008 18:21
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suba
Unregistered
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suba
Unregistered
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It really depends on how much you dial in. I did not notice the tire wear being too bad with -1.3. I'm going to go for -2 this weekend, but I dont do that many miles so i'm not that bothered if the tires wear fast.
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Re: even better handling?
[Re: Jimbo]
#709512
18/11/2008 11:08
18/11/2008 11:08
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suba
Unregistered
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suba
Unregistered
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The Castor is already dialed in. I'm going to play around with the camber a bit more. The top mount is not adjustable, so I'm going to slot the damper a touch so that I can go up to -2 with a camber bolt if I want to. I was also going to try some toe out... I'll start a separate post to let you know how I get on.
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Re: even better handling?
[Re: ]
#711434
20/11/2008 20:40
20/11/2008 20:40
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367 Staffordshire
Nigel
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Forum veteran
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OP
Forum veteran
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367
Staffordshire
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Bloody hell! How did I ever win the handling at TOTB with zero degrees on one side and half a degree on the other?? Its now set to about 1.25 degrees on both sides. The handling has certainly changed - it torque-steers a bit now (although the tyres are well past their best). the steering also moves around a bit more as the cambered tyres follow imperfections in the road. So, its definitely a bit less "planted" in the straight-ahead position. However, the way it goes round corners is just brilliant Turn-in is greatly improved and feel from the steering is much better. The camber bolts are actually for an Alfa GTV, and fit the Coupe hub just fine. The only problem is the range of adjustment - I'm pretty sure they're made to correct excess negative camber from lowering, rather than for dialing in even more, so they are pretty close to their limit of negative camber. However, the bolts were just £10 off Ebay - new ones are about £20 Once I've re-checked the settings, I'll be making the camber gauge available for hire. I can either deliver it to Paul's at Motormech, who can do the work for you, or I can have it delivered to your door.
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Re: even better handling?
[Re: Nigel]
#711815
21/11/2008 13:46
21/11/2008 13:46
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suba
Unregistered
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suba
Unregistered
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That's a damn good deal on them Nigel - my Eibach camber bolts were £60!
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Re: even better handling?
[Re: Nigel]
#712524
22/11/2008 17:01
22/11/2008 17:01
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,095 highlands
jimboy
Club Member 857
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Club Member 857
Forum is my life
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,095
highlands
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ive just ordered myself bolts jings...i can hear the little lady not MORE stuff for your car ah well that's married life for you
I'm an old git & happy with it,most of the time
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Re: even better handling?
[Re: Nigel]
#712542
22/11/2008 17:54
22/11/2008 17:54
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,285 Manchester
GraemeC
Competition Level
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Competition Level
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,285
Manchester
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Humm, £20 for the bolts and my cars at Paul's on Friday - Nigel, how confident are you in your guage and would you consider leaving it with Paul until Friday? (happy to arrange delivery to you afterwards)
It is hard to understand how a cemetery can raise burial rates and blame it on the cost of living
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Re: even better handling?
[Re: GraemeC]
#712581
22/11/2008 19:38
22/11/2008 19:38
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367 Staffordshire
Nigel
OP
Forum veteran
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OP
Forum veteran
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367
Staffordshire
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Graeme - as I said earlier in the thread, I'm going to be hiring this gauge out to fccuk'ers (also will be hiring out my Sykes Pickavant Code reader)
I'm perfectly happy to let Paul use the gauge - he spent a couple of hours using it with me on Thursday, so he's fully aware of how to use it.
If I was posting the gauge out, I would be asking for a holding deposit, but if its ONLY going to Paul's, I'm willing to forego the deposit.
For return delivery, you can post it (as long as its sent recorded, insured and signed-for) or you can deliver by hand (Coventry during the day or near Lichfield in the evening)
If you're heading back to Manchester, you could take a small detour from Birmingham and drop it in at my house.
I *might* even get you to leave it at Paul's for the next hirer
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