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Live Mapping- The Results #239373
16/11/2006 23:41
16/11/2006 23:41
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Jimbo Offline OP
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First of all a big thanks to Claudio and Rob at Perfect Touch, it was good to meet you guys

Oh and I guess you lot want to know if it happened and what the results are

Well yes and no, Rob worked hard to map the standard ECU and got most of it done but he needed much more time to perfect it. Adding to the map in one point takes it out at another so its a very time consuming job.
Live mapping is possible on the coupe and after Rob has got it 100% sorted it will be done.
I think I ended up with a semi live map and a unichip but hey I dont care what its using, its the results that matter.

I'm not at home at the moment so I cant post up my graphs but the car drives completely differently, 6th gear now feels like 4th and there is a HOOOOOOGE amount of torque available from 2500 up to 6000rpm where it starts to drop off (superspool hybrid)
Rob gave me a choice of BHP or Torque and as I want a very driveable car I went for torque so the peak power is just over 300bhp and the torque is around 280Lbs ft (dont have the graphs on me so thats just off memory).

Anyway, I can fully recommend Perfect Touch for mapping, great guys and a great job

Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239374
17/11/2006 00:01
17/11/2006 00:01

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great results Jimbo!!

sounds like another good result at Perfect Touch, live mapping AND Unichip!!

So how come you still have to use the Unichip then?

Joe

Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239375
17/11/2006 00:02
17/11/2006 00:02

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What was your results previously?

Ross

Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239376
17/11/2006 00:27
17/11/2006 00:27
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Nice one Jimbo... this live mapping lark is not very easy


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Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239377
17/11/2006 00:32
17/11/2006 00:32
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Ross,

Last year it made 276bhp and 250lbs torque, since then its had C&B cams and from the first run at Perfect Touch it looks like they added 13bhp.
You'll see the graphs when I post them up next week.


I forgot to mention, there was a certain well known coupe already there, Im not going to spoil anyones fun but its going to be seriously quick when its finished.... or at least it was until I hid my bacon sandwich wrapper in the inlet piping

Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239378
17/11/2006 00:45
17/11/2006 00:45

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Quote:

Ross,

Last year it made 276bhp and 250lbs torque, since then its had C&B cams and from the first run at Perfect Touch it looks like they added 13bhp.
You'll see the graphs when I post them up next week.


I forgot to mention, there was a certain well known coupe already there, Im not going to spoil anyones fun but its going to be seriously quick when its finished.... or at least it was until I hid my bacon sandwich wrapper in the inlet piping



Isnt cams usually rated at 10bhp and 15lb/ft? which means you probably had like 290bhp and 265lb/ft before live mapping which isnt finished yet.

Looking like Live Mapping might be useful!!!

Ross

Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239379
17/11/2006 00:49
17/11/2006 00:49

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but then it is cold at the moment which could make such comparisons difficult.

Jimbo, how come you still have the Unichip then?

Joe

Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239380
17/11/2006 00:58
17/11/2006 00:58

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Nice one Jimbo ! Is your car now all ready for Silverstone? Looking forward to seeing how it compares with mine, as our headline figures are pretty close now.

Phil

Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239381
17/11/2006 01:00
17/11/2006 01:00
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What boost and chip is that at Jimbo?

Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239382
17/11/2006 01:06
17/11/2006 01:06
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Joe,
They couldn't get into one certain part of the code and they were running out of time fast so I think they opted for the unichip as they knew it could be done before the shop closed.

Very similar temps to last years rolling road and Perfect Touch have a 100mph fan so probably similar to Powerstation.

Phil, yep Im ready all bar a brake fluid change and maybe some shorter springs at the front

Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239383
17/11/2006 01:44
17/11/2006 01:44

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Quote:

Joe,
They couldn't get into one certain part of the code and they were running out of time fast so I think they opted for the unichip as they knew it could be done before the shop closed.






Do they have a way to work on this problem "offline", or are they going to have another go when the next coop rolls in?

Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239384
17/11/2006 01:45
17/11/2006 01:45
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Quote:

I forgot to mention, there was a certain well known coupe already there, Im not going to spoil anyones fun but its going to be seriously quick when its finished.... or at least it was until I hid my bacon sandwich wrapper in the inlet piping




Ahhh yes, the old bacon sandwich wrapper... that's no match for my turbo


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Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239385
17/11/2006 03:02
17/11/2006 03:02
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jimbo do u mind me asking how much the live mapping cost?because i was goin to go there. perfect touch charge £110 an hour dont they? i need to get mine done soon wats better then live map or unichip?


Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239386
17/11/2006 05:13
17/11/2006 05:13
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Jimbo Offline OP
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Quote:

Quote:

I forgot to mention, there was a certain well known coupe already there, Im not going to spoil anyones fun but its going to be seriously quick when its finished.... or at least it was until I hid my bacon sandwich wrapper in the inlet piping




Ahhh yes, the old bacon sandwich wrapper... that's no match for my turbo





You obviously haven't tried one of those burger van bacon sandwiches then !!! Not sure if the bun was still frozen or just 5 years past its sell by date

Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239387
17/11/2006 05:15
17/11/2006 05:15
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Jimbo Offline OP
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TurboNick,

I only paid for the unichip and 2 hours of mapping, they didnt charge me for the 4 hours of live mapping they did.

Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239388
17/11/2006 07:48
17/11/2006 07:48

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Quote:


I forgot to mention, there was a certain well known coupe already there, Im not going to spoil anyones fun but its going to be seriously quick when its finished.... or at least it was until I hid my bacon sandwich wrapper in the inlet piping




I know exactly what's going on there too

Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239389
17/11/2006 09:08
17/11/2006 09:08

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nice results jimbo & good luck in Silverstone

Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239390
17/11/2006 09:12
17/11/2006 09:12

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Quote:

Quote:

I forgot to mention, there was a certain well known coupe already there, Im not going to spoil anyones fun but its going to be seriously quick when its finished.... or at least it was until I hid my bacon sandwich wrapper in the inlet piping




Ahhh yes, the old bacon sandwich wrapper... that's no match for my turbo




The Battle for Silverstone, took some unexpected and dark turns

Joe

Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239391
17/11/2006 14:38
17/11/2006 14:38

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4 hours tuning time? 4 * £110/hour....... £440 (+vat)?

£500 for livemapping or £700 for a unichip with boost module? Im so confused!!!

Ross

Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239392
17/11/2006 16:20
17/11/2006 16:20
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Jimbo Offline OP
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Ross,

Give the guys a call and chat to them: 01992 443900

IIRC they are charging £450 + vat for a live map, I would rather have a live map than a unichip, its your own ECU doing the work not a piggy back device.

Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239393
17/11/2006 16:23
17/11/2006 16:23

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Jimbo (and Begbie/Barnacle if your reading) would they be able to do 16vt live maps now then? do the 20vt and 16vt ECUs differ that greatly?

This may be a great asset to 16vt owners as we have been previously stuck using plug and play chips or forking out a fortune on a compatible piggy back unit.

Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239394
17/11/2006 16:47
17/11/2006 16:47
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There are already people about that can do 16VT live maps. Ahmed Bayjoo has done some grales for instance, and I'm sure anyone who has done a Grale or a Cossie could probably do it fine

Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239395
17/11/2006 18:08
17/11/2006 18:08

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or you spend 70euro on an eprom writer and a few chips and then you start by yourself (for 150euro you can do realtime map editing using a notebook in your car)

A wideband AFR and a EGT would be helpful (that's an extra 400euro - enabling logging as well)

Then you get your PC, TunerPro RT and some maps off JMA, or myself or others and get down to business

if you're interested I'm sure JMA or I could elaborate.
Anyways you don't start afresh, the existing maps are a good starting point and you choose what to change and howmuch.

V.

Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239396
17/11/2006 18:15
17/11/2006 18:15

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ooooh sounds cool, excpet my laptop is a mac, so thats extra spending

Anyway, no no no i cant afford this. Stop teasing me u evil person u!

Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239397
17/11/2006 20:04
17/11/2006 20:04

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Do your maths mr. ,

if you are OK with computers, the proposed solution runs cheaper and you have the extra bonus of tuning your car to your hearts content.

Mind you, I'd be very happy if it were 5-6 or a dozen of us working on maps and exchanging BIN files. This way you could get a great custom map much quicker than working alone...

V.

Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239398
17/11/2006 20:04
17/11/2006 20:04

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Im glad you guys rate perfect touch so highly, My punto GT is there at the moment awaiting its cold start map.

Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239399
17/11/2006 20:06
17/11/2006 20:06

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Quote:

Do your maths mr. ,

if you are OK with computers, the proposed solution runs cheaper and you have the extra bonus of tuning your car to your hearts content.

Mind you, I'd be very happy if it were 5-6 or a dozen of us working on maps and exchanging BIN files. This way you could get a great custom map much quicker than working alone...

V.




Hehe i'm good with computers but i'm also lazy. I just know i'll miss some important figure or all be in such a hurry to try things that i wont check my inputs and blow up the engine.

Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239400
19/11/2006 08:25
19/11/2006 08:25
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Quote:

Im glad you guys rate perfect touch so highly, My punto GT is there at the moment awaiting its cold start map.




hey have u seen the perfect touch punto i think he should be running his 300bhp + nitros now all from a 1.4!


Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239401
19/11/2006 08:28
19/11/2006 08:28

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Jimbo, sounds good then, with all these good results coming out of the live mapping technique, sounds like the Unichip is going to have had its day!

Joe

Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239402
19/11/2006 14:09
19/11/2006 14:09

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saw a punto down PT with a coupe lump in it

Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239403
21/11/2006 02:12
21/11/2006 02:12
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Jimbo Offline OP
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Just to keep you guys up to date on the progress of this, Im not going to keep anything from you

I've been having some problems

The car cuts out at idle, there is no specific time on this and it doesnt happen at a particular temperature either, always at idle and whenever it wants to, it just just cuts out.

I called perfect Touch today and they are going to look at for me but it looks like Im traveling another 3hrs each way to get it sorted

Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239404
21/11/2006 02:19
21/11/2006 02:19

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A pity we cant just upload everything in the ECU to a bin file and send it them and the software pickout the problem bits or have some form of time stamp on them as well so we can highlight the areas of concern as i bet it will be fine on rolling day as always

Hope it goes well and sorts it self out for you Jimbo.

Has an ECU reset had no effect as mine has randomly done it in the past until the ecu as cleared.

Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239405
21/11/2006 02:38
21/11/2006 02:38
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Jimbo - mine does exactly the same, although it cuts out most of the time, not just SOME of the time.

However, mine is down to the Unichip - is yours live-mapped or are you still on your unichip?

Actually, its not my Unichips fault - its the ECU making changes to its base maps in accordance with the inputs its getting


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Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239406
21/11/2006 03:17
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Jimbo is IIRC on a mix of both from a previous fault...

Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239407
21/11/2006 04:59
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Jimbo Offline OP
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Nigel, as KP said, I'm on a live map and unichip combination.
I do recall Rob saying something about the idle speed needing increasing slightly, maybe it needs a little more ?

KP, I'll try the ECU reset tomorrow and see if it cures it ?

Rob did the live map then fitted the unichip at the end, maybe the unichip is playing around with the map he created and screwing the idle up ?

Are there any sensors I can check or clean that might cause it ?

Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239408
21/11/2006 05:17
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Jimbo - you won't be able to stop it - all of your sensors are fine.

What we think is happening is that the ECU "learning" function is doing what it's supposed to do - its taking signals and adjusting itself according to what it THINKS is happening.

In my case (and yours by the sound of it) it reckons its running rich at some point in the rev range, and it just keeps on pulling more and more fuel out. This is OK when its on throtlle and closed loop, as the lambda circuit adjusts the fuelling, but at tickover, it reverts to a base map, and if its pulled loads of fuel out, it will struggle to run.

On my car, when I pull to a standstill, the revs drop to about 1,000-1,200 for a second or two, then drop either to about 600 or more often, to zero.

Trying to stop the car stalling is quite a task - just touching the throttle won't do it (in fact trying to increase the revs usually encourages the stall) I have to "tickle" the throttle pedal with several very soft stabs and usually I can get the revs back up.

Its worst when trying to pull away - I often spend two or three seconds just trying to get the revs up enough to let me lift the clutch.

However - be VERY wary of an ECU reset - it will almost certainly run very rich for a day or so, until the ECU "learns" all over again. After cutting out about 15 times on the way to work this morning, I resest the ECU and my AFR meter was showing full rich for most of the 40 mile journey home. The car won't take much boost - it will hesitate and splutter at anything over 1 bar - just too much fuel going in.

Tomorrow, the car will be fine, as the ECU will have made its adjustments and will be close to what Perfect Touch intended. By Wednesday evenning, it will be starting to get fluffy in traffic, and by Friday morning it will be undriveable again

I've now had NINE mapping sessions on my car since fitting the 16VT injectors - all have been good for a few days, then they've slipped as the ECU screws the base maps. I've now travelled 2,500 miles, used about 100 gallons of fuel and spent about two grand on rolling road bills.

As some people have said - I should have gone straight for a Motec

I'm desperately hoping that Flea's setup is the final answer - fingers crossed.

Let me know how you get on Jimbo - sounds like we're in very similar situations


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Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239409
21/11/2006 05:42
21/11/2006 05:42
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Hmmm, I dont have the pulling away problems or any other type of problem really, it doesn't even hunt for an idle,it stays rock solid at 750rpm.
I pull up to the lights or what ever, dip the clutch and stick it in neutral, it could do it straight away or it might wait 2 minutes or so but it just stops followed by a few clicks of a relay in the passenger foot well.

I cant see why my ECU should be trying to pull out fuel, Im on standard injectors and the map Rob did for the ECU wont be too different from a GTECII chip, I think it might be the unichip messing up the idle map or it just needs a faster idle speed setting up.

Oh and im sure Flea's car cuts out too

Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239410
21/11/2006 05:49
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If it reverts to a base map for idling is there no way that this can be locked so it cant be altred by the ecu at all?

If perfect touch can get this live mapping done spot on then would there be benefit for people to go to wideband lambdas if the ecu can pull the data and use it on the fly?

Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239411
21/11/2006 05:50
21/11/2006 05:50

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Please let me know the results as mines booked in on the 19th of december for either the unichip or live map.All though i havent got anything to loose at the moment as mines cutting out on idle now.Theres no routine to it sometimes when you pull up to lights it cuts out and the revs fluctuate on other times and then it cuts out.this is since i had the novitec chip and uprated fuel pump.I have altered the cable to idle at 1500 rpm at the mo thats the only way i can stop it cutting out.

Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239412
21/11/2006 05:54
21/11/2006 05:54
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I thought it went closed loop on idle and doesnt look at a map at all ? The MOT emissions test is done at idle and its using the lambda on closed loop then ?

Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239413
21/11/2006 06:02
21/11/2006 06:02

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If it does only use the Lambda then i would imagine it should be fine unless the lambda reading is way off or its not controlling the injector pulses properly and making them shorter than they should be??

Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239414
21/11/2006 06:06
21/11/2006 06:06
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Yeah, its all gone above my head

I'll leave it for Rob to sort out I think.

Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239415
21/11/2006 06:07
21/11/2006 06:07

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Wont serious tuning amplify any errors anyways?

Ross

Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239416
21/11/2006 06:11
21/11/2006 06:11
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Jimbo, as you say i don't think your problems are due to ecu learning as the unichip is only modifying your open loop fueling and timing. As I said to you earlier, I have had my car cutting out on idle every so often for the last 18 months especially if left to idle for a few minutes. There is no rhyme or reason and as it is so infrequent I never really worried, more of a quirk.

The problem with larger injectors is getting the lambda intervention to near zero. If the lambda is constantly having to pull the injectors i.e. by correcting +/- 15% to achieve stoich then the ecu struggles to compensate long term as it is fighting itself and the Unichip. As for my remapped ecu, well so far so good. The idle is perfect, throttle response is great so it's looking good... there should be no reason for any change as the lambda is not intervening beyond the standard parameters having matched the injectors accordingly i.e. pulse width and duration.


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Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239417
21/11/2006 06:22
21/11/2006 06:22
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Yep I'm confused too, it must be something related to the map or unichip though as its only done it since it went in for that work to be done, nothing else has changed and the car has never missed a beat in the 2 years I've owned it?

Im sure it will be something silly and easy to fix.

Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239418
21/11/2006 15:26
21/11/2006 15:26

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Jimbo, yours is a weird one, as you say your map should not be much different to a Gtec/novitec map, and really the idle map isnt affected either.

Combined with runnign standard injectors, and there is no reason why your car should run any different to intended on idle, therefore you should not be getting any significant compensation of your other fuelling maps.

The problem with open loop adjustment really should only apply to using larger injectors and the standard ECU with/without a Unichip.

If you compensate for pulse width and timing ,there is no reason why your lambda values and variability should be near normal even with larger injectors, so no reason why any significant adjusmtent shoudl take place!

On a funny note,..after Flea mentioned his stalling problem a month ago, I was laughing by saying that it never happens to me!,..that night talking to a friend in the car, after 10 minutes..bang the car just stalled, no reason, was rock solid ,then died like taking the keys out!!..oh...how I laughed!

joe

Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239419
21/11/2006 16:01
21/11/2006 16:01

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Hi,

It should be like Joe explained. I changed OE injectors last weekend and since that my EGT has been as solid as a rock with the readings I saw Sunday, I can see them also today.
ECU hasn't changed anything .

- Jari -

Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239420
21/11/2006 16:34
21/11/2006 16:34
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If you don't have an encryption board in your ECU it might be easier for you to pop to mine and I can take your ECU map and burn you a new chip with a faster idle setting

Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239421
21/11/2006 16:45
21/11/2006 16:45

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Do Perfect Touch keep a copy of their maps? Perhaps they could post you out an ecu with a higher idle?

Jimbo, what was your idle set at? I'm booked in on Saturday, should I ask for idle to be set above 800rpm?

Last edited by davidub; 21/11/2006 16:53.
Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239422
21/11/2006 18:40
21/11/2006 18:40
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David, the idle seems perfect and it doesnt seem to be struggling with it, it just cuts out as if i've turned the engine off ?
I have no idea what they should set the idle at on your car to be honest.

Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239423
21/11/2006 18:49
21/11/2006 18:49

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o'h, ok - i misunderstood.

Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239424
21/11/2006 20:52
21/11/2006 20:52

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Im thinking of having this done as well,so i rung them up to find out more and they told me they can now run bigger injectors from the standard ecu, so i was thinking rather than pay to have it mapped then to decide to change injectors later, then pay more to map again to do it all at the same time, does this sound sensible? If so what are the best value injectors to go for, what do most people use??

Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239425
21/11/2006 21:33
21/11/2006 21:33
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If you buy different injectors then you must make sure they match the ECU. That means they must be high impedance in the range of 12-16.2ohms.
They must also match the fuel rail so must be a Bosch/Lucus/Weber type top feed fitment, not a Sard/Denso type fitment.

If you are not going to be pushing the best part of 380BHP it's pointless, and if you are then you also want to be thinking about so many other modifications that you are likely to need a remap anyway

Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239426
21/11/2006 23:27
21/11/2006 23:27
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Quote:

they must be high impedance in the range of 12-16.2ohms.
They must also match the fuel rail so must be a Bosch/Lucus/Weber type top feed fitment




And the obvious question is:- do 16VT injectors meet all these requirements? (I'm pretty sure they meet the last bit, otherwise they wouldn't fit)


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Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239427
21/11/2006 23:28
21/11/2006 23:28

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cheers for the advice JohnS, i just thought alot of people used 16v injectors as they are better flow, all this technical stuff goes over my head, i just want to make my car the best with the mods i have, and if i can add alittle some thing to optimise this ie injectors then i would. If there not going to make a difference then i wont bother, perhaps i will use the money to buy a new larger turbo as i have super spool at the mo, but started to get bored with it. Again turbos there is so many with gt on or R's on the end which one do i go for which will still give me good spool up.

Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239428
21/11/2006 23:35
21/11/2006 23:35
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yes 16VT injectors do meet all these requirements. Think they are 12 ohms

The spray pattern of the 20VT injectors is specific to the ports in that they spray directly into both inlet ports (split spray pattern), the 16VT also has a split spray pattern but the angle is different.
That means like-for-like if you do not need 16VT or larger injectors you're likely to make more power from 20VT injectors because the fuel atomisation will be superior as will your fuel efficiency

I wouldn't change from the stock injectors unless I had to personally. If they flow enough for your application then stick to them.

John

Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239429
21/11/2006 23:54
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Quote:

I wouldn't change from the stock injectors unless I had to personally




I wholeheartedly agree.

I spent a couple of weeks back on stock injectors after my boost controller failed and Perfect Touch decided the safest way was to revert almsot top standard.

The car was significantly smoother to drive and behaved perfectly in traffic. I could even pull away and change into second or even third gear without touching the throttle. It would even pull itself up modest hills at tickover.

Maybe Matt's twin injector setup is the way forward. standard 330cc injectors for most of the time, with second units kicking in when load dictates


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Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239430
22/11/2006 00:01
22/11/2006 00:01

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Dont let Begbie here you say that Nigel as he will go off on one

Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239431
22/11/2006 00:03
22/11/2006 00:03
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your typical dual-rail system dates back to the days where injectors were not as advanced and control of them was not as advanced. It's pretty much unnecessary for us unless you want to run somewhere near 700BHP. Modern 750cc/min injectors are precise enough to return good economy and emissions as well as a reasonable idle speed.

As long as you want to stick with the stock ECU adding more injectors is a dodgy botch as you are removing control from the ECU (in the same way the Unichip is a mechanism for removing the control from the ECU)

Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239432
22/11/2006 00:58
22/11/2006 00:58
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Quote:

Dont let Begbie here you say that Nigel as he will go off on one






If your using a single injector to fuel all 5 cylinders, then yes, i will moan, but as John as said, twin rail setup is a much better solution as you then have 2 injectors per cylinder instead of 1 per 5


Originally Posted by Jonny - After being taken out at Spa
Your car is Usain Bolt with wellies
Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239433
22/11/2006 01:43
22/11/2006 01:43

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This would not be cheap i imagine as it would mean the unichip would have to really be able to control them at the higher boost levels as well as getting the inlet manifold machined to fit them perfectly snug?

Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239434
22/11/2006 02:05
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*sigh*

he unichip is not the be all and end all tool for the coupe's! If you were going to control 10 injectors you would certainly not use a unichip to control them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We would be talking standalone ECU, not some crappy piggy back box to do the injection.


Originally Posted by Jonny - After being taken out at Spa
Your car is Usain Bolt with wellies
Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239435
22/11/2006 02:30
22/11/2006 02:30

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I was only suggestnig Unichip or the likes.

Deep breathes begbie....

Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239436
22/11/2006 03:58
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It would appear that Flea's setup is still OK and hasn't drifted with the ECU trying to change the base maps.

Therefore, it would appear that live mapping could well be the answer.

I'm currently waiting for Perfect Touch to call me to ask me to come back to rid me of the truly horrible fuelling I'm currently putting up with.


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Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239437
22/11/2006 05:30
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It took mine 4 days to start its funny business.

Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239438
22/11/2006 05:37
22/11/2006 05:37

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it's strange that everyone is wetting their pants about live mapping when there still seems to be some problems

Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239439
22/11/2006 06:01
22/11/2006 06:01

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......just still be cautious chaps....

UNTIL a coop can run on the OEM ECU, witout a fcuk-box in between altering the signals, you WILL always have problems, as the OEM ECU is very very smart at adapting to out of tolerance values, ALL the uni-chip can EVER do is alter a known quantity of signals, NOT understand how to run the engine, that is what the ECU does

even, I am looking cautiously at the moment, as the coop is very much in its infancy with live mapping of the ECU, this just takes time, guinea pigs & some honest R&D on the rolling road

....remember the days when people reckoned it would take "specialists" to wire in Jap Apexi stuff to our cars ? Always seemed out of the realm, now they are as common as busted bottom ends


Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239440
22/11/2006 06:35
22/11/2006 06:35

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Ha ha thanks Taz

Yip i do agree its like the mapping of LPG systems. the more used they become and teh more people that adopt them for certain cars the more is learned about them

Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239441
25/11/2006 22:43
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After getting my new clutch installed by Barbz yesterday (thanks mate) and racking up a few hundred miles to bed it in, I took a trip to Perfect Touch for a live mapping session this morning. From the mapping point of view, everything seemed to go well, a nice bunch of lads and a professional setup. However, my results were held back a little, as I couldn't hold boost that well at high revs, 1.3 bar was dropping to 1.05bar at the redline (costing me around 20BHP, the problem also seemed to lost me some low down grunt). Hopefully this will be solved simply by tightening the actuator. I'll post up the graphs tomorrow, however, for now here's how I did:

Petrol: 95RON

Mods:
Apexi Cone Filter
GT28RSR Turbo
H&S 5-stud 3" Downpipe
Milltek race cat
Milltek 2.5" cat back
PA FMIC
GReddy Profec B Spec II

Results:
.98bar dropping to .9bar - 292.2BHP, 245.6ft/lb
1.3bar dropping to 1.05bar, 317.7BHP, 287.5 ft/lb

Hopefully when I get the actuator sorted, I'll be getting 340 at 1.3bar. Rob also said he couldn't advance the ignition as far as on other coops due to the 95RON (I think mine was 9 degrees compared to 15). I forgot to ask Rob what the at wheels figure was!

Last edited by davidub; 25/11/2006 22:46.
Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239442
25/11/2006 22:59
25/11/2006 22:59

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317 at 1.05 bar is good!!! You got the graph there??

Ross

Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239443
25/11/2006 23:15
25/11/2006 23:15

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Quote:

317 at 1.05 bar is good!!! You got the graph there??

Ross




Yep, can't post it till tommorow though - I've got a long trip home first

Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239444
25/11/2006 23:16
25/11/2006 23:16

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Oh right. Be interesting to see exactly what Live Mapping does.

Ross

Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239445
25/11/2006 23:36
25/11/2006 23:36

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Quote:

Oh right. Be interesting to see exactly what Live Mapping does.

Ross




All they do is adjust the fueling and ignition i.e. kind of like a custom GTEC, except they're using their maps tailored to your car! They adjusted mine to 11.5 AFR midrange and leaned it out towards the redline and advanced the ignition by 9 degrees (I think). In my case, the Fiat chip was way too rich and the GTEC1 too lean in the midrange, I see it more of a peace of mind mod!

Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239446
26/11/2006 00:05
26/11/2006 00:05

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If it's not a rude question, how much did your live map cost?

Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239447
26/11/2006 00:22
26/11/2006 00:22

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Very good results David... and on 95 RON fuel as well.

Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239448
26/11/2006 09:25
26/11/2006 09:25

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Quote:

I've been having some problems




absolutely shattered to hear this , Jimbo.

hope it can be sorted.



.

Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239449
26/11/2006 17:46
26/11/2006 17:46

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Graphs posted on this thread

Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239450
26/11/2006 22:19
26/11/2006 22:19

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Jeez for those mods thats dam good!

I dont have a cat but my spec is near enough the same David.

Did you do hollyhead don leary(sorry for bad spelling )

Long drive as well i agree. you coulda stopped over at mine if it had been another time to break up the journey but maybe another time hey would be cool to see a southern irish coopster

Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239451
26/11/2006 22:26
26/11/2006 22:26

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Quote:

Jeez for those mods thats dam good!

I dont have a cat but my spec is near enough the same David.

Did you do hollyhead don leary(sorry for bad spelling )

Long drive as well i agree. you coulda stopped over at mine if it had been another time to break up the journey but maybe another time hey would be cool to see a southern irish coopster




I'm actually a little dissapointed! after my last dyno run I was hoping for 340 with a little more low down oomph - which should still be hopefully possible.

yeah, drove back to holyhead last night, nearly ran out of petrol in the middle of nowhere, all of the petrol stations were closed after the M6 Enjoyed going through the tunnels in Wales with the windows down

Last edited by davidub; 26/11/2006 22:29.
Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239452
27/11/2006 00:10
27/11/2006 00:10

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They are good for that

Should get a blueflame like mine
The shell one along the M56 shoulda been open and one or two further down usually are along teh A55 ah well, tip for next time, print off map with shell stations on route using autoroute and working out where abouts you will start to run low and fill up near there

Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239453
27/11/2006 21:05
27/11/2006 21:05

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having lumpy idle/cut-out problems this lunchtime, hopefully just a coincidence

Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239454
27/11/2006 21:07
27/11/2006 21:07
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David, Im going back in tomorrow to try and get my lumpy idle and cutting out sorted. I'll keep you posted on the results.

Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239455
27/11/2006 21:09
27/11/2006 21:09

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Yes please Jimbo im still keeping my eye on this

Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239456
27/11/2006 21:12
27/11/2006 21:12

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Damn David fairplay thats one hell of a run!!

Has anyone else had problems like this? how did it feel on the drive home?

Iain

Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239457
27/11/2006 21:19
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The drive home was fine but I didnt really spend any time with the car on idle. I only noticed 2 days later when I drove the car again, it started and cut out after 30 seconds, then I drove to get some petrol and it cut out again in the queue, then again at a roundabout.
It just does it whenever it likes but not all the time, its now getting a little lumpy to pull away in 1st gear.

Im also finding it very jerky to drive, even a slight lift off the throttle makes the car lurch ? Made for some interesting driving on the track yesterday !

Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239458
27/11/2006 21:38
27/11/2006 21:38

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I had no problems driving home, although that was 300 miles at reasonable (ahem...) pace. Mine isn't lurching, it just cut out a few times, flickered between 500-800 rpm, cut out and the battery light came on It might just be coincidence (ICV might need a clean) as my mapping should have been fairly straight forward.

Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239459
28/11/2006 23:20
28/11/2006 23:20
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Ok, I drove back over to PT today and had a chat with Rob about my little cutting out problem.
He's adjusted the map on the unichip so its not altering anything at all on closed trottle, I will wait a few days before I post up the results as it took a few days for it to start cutting out last time.
The jerking on lift off however is much better now so I'm quite hopeful this is the problem solved.

I did learn that mine is just controlled by the unichip and not a half and half as I originally thought.

Rob was a top bloke as usual and hopefully will be joining us on some track days in future lookng forward to that.

Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239460
28/11/2006 23:36
28/11/2006 23:36

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I've just got off the phone to Rob and I'm booked in for Friday 8th.

Let's see what the 3" turbo back and aquamist does.

Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239461
29/11/2006 00:00
29/11/2006 00:00
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might need some methanol there kenino!


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Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239462
29/11/2006 02:02
29/11/2006 02:02

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How many hours mapping do you think that will take Ken? What is the estimated cost?

Re: Live Mapping- The Results #239463
29/11/2006 19:21
29/11/2006 19:21

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Rog - yep, I do. I've just picked up my brand spanking new water bottle for the space where the airbox is. I have no idea what model car but i have a part number. That's getting installed at the weekend.. then i'll be round for a fill up. Are you about?

Kevin - I have no idea of costs (bar the fact it's £110/hr)But i've explained to Rob that the DDS Junction box is next to the unichip ready for connection. I might get a wiring diagram from dastek and do it myself then just get it mapped.

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