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Re: An informal election thread
[Re: barnacle]
#1602289
07/06/2017 18:20
07/06/2017 18:20
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,783 In the coupe.
magooagain
Club Member 259
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Club Member 259
Forum is my life
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,783
In the coupe.
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Well thats it Neil,as you say Corbyn is unlikely to deliver and is promising all sorts of fairy tales. As are the other party candidates .
They just want to get into power or stay in power.
I'm sure many have good intentions,once thier nests are feathered.
You mentioned brexit did'nt you! Naughty naughty.
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Re: An informal election thread
[Re: barnacle]
#1602301
07/06/2017 19:59
07/06/2017 19:59
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,988 Sunny Darlo
Wishy
Forum is my life
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Forum is my life
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,988
Sunny Darlo
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Well I've voted, not for my usual due to one the of reasons in the OP. One bigger problem however is that I appear to voted for a politician.
Last edited by Wishy; 07/06/2017 20:34. Reason: Should wear reading glasses to post!
Up yours Photobucket.
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Re: An informal election thread
[Re: barnacle]
#1602305
07/06/2017 20:26
07/06/2017 20:26
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GrahamL
Unregistered
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GrahamL
Unregistered
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Will not vote for any of the liars for hire on offer.
The SNP can't even be honest on their election leaflet ffs... latest one shows graph of the last local council election results (where the candidates and results were totally different to last general election) in an underhand attempt to split the lib dem vote due to them running a very close 2nd to the SNP at last general election.
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Re: An informal election thread
[Re: barnacle]
#1602306
07/06/2017 20:31
07/06/2017 20:31
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TbirdX
Unregistered
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TbirdX
Unregistered
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Whatever happens, at least it'll be over soon thank god.
I get the sense I'm not voting for the best of the best, but for the least worst of the worst.
Last edited by TbirdX; 07/06/2017 20:31.
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Re: An informal election thread
[Re: came2dance]
#1602311
07/06/2017 21:44
07/06/2017 21:44
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 16,898 Auld Reekie
Edinburgh
Club President, member225
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Club President, member225
Forum veteran
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 16,898
Auld Reekie
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I think Corbyn is alright. Some of his policies might not seem do-able and we will surely have to pay for those that do get implemented but I'd much rather pay more for a health service that worked than see the Tories run it into the ground so that they could fool us all that it needed privatising. And happy do do away with Trident (even though it will never happen and Labour have never said they would) as it's an absolute waste of money.
I thought Theresa May would run away with things at the start of the campaign but that's not been the case. in fact she shoots herself in the foot every day while Labour gain more and more support.
The media have been in overdrive today in an attempt to portray Corbyn in a bad light but I think it will backfire on them. Agree with all of this. It's as if the Conservatives have been taking backhanders to "lose". If the younger generation are backing Corbyn and that's the way they want to go then they have a reasonable case as they'll be around a lot longer than the likes of me and my contemporaries! That epitaph about stables and weetabix will come to haunt the May campaign.
BumbleBee carer
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Re: An informal election thread
[Re: barnacle]
#1602316
07/06/2017 22:19
07/06/2017 22:19
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FreakinFreak
Unregistered
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FreakinFreak
Unregistered
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I'm struggling to see how May made it to be an MP. She's been there for years yet buckles under the the slightest pressure.
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Re: An informal election thread
[Re: ali_hire]
#1602340
08/06/2017 12:16
08/06/2017 12:16
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Jonny
Unregistered
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Jonny
Unregistered
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I posted this somewhere else. I'm not looking for a debate, so sorry about that, but as someone who is at the coalface when it concerns 'small business', this is how I see it. My only argument is that Labour (or more specifically Corbyn Labour) cannot be the choice we make for moving the country forward:
As an accountant, I deal with a large number of small businesses. These are the people that prop up the country in terms of jobs, taxes and pensions. They are not earning a lot of money. Some of them earn less than their employees and have the stress of makings ends meet every day.
Unfortunately for us as a nation, we have to compete with Eastern Europe and other low wage economies. The only way we survive/compete is on zero hour contracts, minimum wage and low rates of corporation tax/dividends. Labour will take these away. Once that happens unemployment will rise, tax take will fall, and the rest will be history
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Re: An informal election thread
[Re: ]
#1602341
08/06/2017 12:40
08/06/2017 12:40
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 16,898 Auld Reekie
Edinburgh
Club President, member225
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Club President, member225
Forum veteran
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 16,898
Auld Reekie
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The only way we survive/compete is on zero hour contracts, minimum wage and low rates of corporation tax/dividends. Labour will take these away. Once that happens unemployment will rise, tax take will fall, and the rest will be history A sensible move for a potential government of any description might be to look at the zero-hour contract and make it more user-friendly for those who are hired-and-fired at a moment's notice. Sure, folk such as students often like to work this way which is fine for them, but then they are actually doing "something else" often involving massive loans, rather than relying on an intermittent income to feed their family on.
BumbleBee carer
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Re: An informal election thread
[Re: andyps]
#1602348
08/06/2017 14:01
08/06/2017 14:01
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Jonny
Unregistered
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Jonny
Unregistered
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Edinburgh- Agreed, but small businesses rely on them to stay afloat rather than use them as the media portray.
Ali- I'm afraid it's clear to me that from their manifesto that they don't have a clue about what small businesses do for the country.
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Re: An informal election thread
[Re: ]
#1602349
08/06/2017 14:03
08/06/2017 14:03
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Jonny
Unregistered
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Jonny
Unregistered
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Although that could be directed at any political party.
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Re: An informal election thread
[Re: barnacle]
#1602360
08/06/2017 16:58
08/06/2017 16:58
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Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,621 Leicester UK
Ballypete
Club Member 1578
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Club Member 1578
My life on the forum
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,621
Leicester UK
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I would vote labour but Keith Vaz is our MP and I can't vote for a corrupt individual with no integrity and a set of moral values I cannot identify with. If I vote Tory then I am legitimising the woman who lied about Making cuts that affect our national security while claiming we are safer as a result. I know my local independent MP and have worked with her in the past. She is getting my vote this time.
Doris the 1998 Portofino Blue 20V and Zoe the 1999 Alfa Romeo 916 Spider Bog standard needn't be boring...
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Re: An informal election thread
[Re: ali_hire]
#1602363
08/06/2017 18:27
08/06/2017 18:27
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Jonny
Unregistered
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Jonny
Unregistered
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Ali-
Corporation tax and the taxation of owners:
Business owners understand what's best to grow their business. Every day I hear the phrase 'I've made more profit and so I'm looking to employ someone else'. They don't generally want to stand still.
We are an example of that, making the conscious decision to employ someone else with the lower corporation tax rates. Why will that work? More staff equals more sales and less workload, so they are happier, more efficient and better paid. Everyone wins.
The same applies with manufacturers, ploughing tax savings into new machinery (which they need to compete with other countries). Those machines were made by someone etc etc...
The lower rates of tax paid personally by business owners is often ploughed into investment just as corporation tax is.
Minimum wage/zero hours wages
The £10 ph wage is a massive increase. We simply won't be able to compete with Eastern European countries. One of my clients employs 30 staff on close to minimum wage. They already struggle to win new contracts with Romania. The increase in staff wages would mean the company would have to shut down. There would be no way out.
Care home costs would rise more than 15% on the introduction of the £10 minimum wage. Other labour intensive businesses would see the same issues. The new minimum wage wouldn't go very far in our world of huge inflation.
Another client (haulage) doesn't know one week to the next how many contracts they will be given (competition with Easter European hauliers). They already only take wages when they can, but of course the staff are paid every week. Quite a few others are on zero hours, as the business has to take work when it can get it. Again, under labour (and without zero hours) the business will shut down.
There are MANY businesses like this across Britain.
Of course many businesses are doing very well and don't pay/play fairly. The problem is that a business owner can simply pay themselves less if they don't need all of their wages/dividends. If Labour brought back the 50% tax rate, they will not get the tax take they are expecting because people will take less. It's happened before and it will happen again.
There's a fine line with what is best for business and the complete steamrollering that Labour would bring in would be ruinous (IMO...)
I could go on but I won't. It's very frustrating.
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Re: An informal election thread
[Re: barnacle]
#1602366
08/06/2017 18:40
08/06/2017 18:40
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 16,603 Corridor of Uncertainty
Jim_Clennell
Forum veteran
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Forum veteran
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 16,603
Corridor of Uncertainty
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It's been a funny old year and no mistake! This time in 2016, we still hadn't had the referendum - seems like a very distant memory to me, so much political water under the bridge. I've frequently said (on here and elsewhere) that I am utterly disillusioned with politics - I'm SO tired of the whole left/right bollocks - it belongs in history and should be replaced by something fit for the modern era. And, it is shameful that in our democracy, None of the Above is not an option on every ballot paper. I voted Labour through conviction for much of my youth, then had no vote for 20 years while I lived in France (my own choice/fault), which covered the Blair era. I believed in Blair and (unfashionable as it may be to say it), he and his government in the early days brought a feeling of pride in being British that I'd never felt before. Let's just say that it didn't end so well - war crimes and megalomania so often go hand-in-hand... However, 2 things have been largely forgotten about the end of Labour's last term in office: 1. Gordon Brown was actually a pretty good Chancellor (not so good in the Big Chair), who did a lot for lower income families and 2. Labour didn't cause the crash in 2007/8; they could have handled the aftermath better, but that is an accusation that can be levelled at every government in power at the time - worldwide. Back to this election... I have never thought Jeremy Corbyn was electable to the office of Prime Minister - nice, genuine bloke, very popular with grass-roots members, some laudable - if unlikely policy ideas, but just cannon fodder to the crushing machine of the media. He'll just end up a footnote, a meme after the catastrophic election results. And I really don't like McDonnell or quite a few of the Corbyn accolytes. I do, however like Diane Abbott, who is an extraordinary woman, despite what a lot of ill-informed or, frankly racist, people will have you believe. I think she is currently clearly very unwell, but only time will tell. As for the Tories; I have maintained for many years that Theresa May is the most dangerous person in UK politics; she used fear in her time as Home Secretary to build an impressive powerbase. Yet, look at those involved in implementing the counter-terror policies she trumpeted. Pro-May? Nope. Since the most opportunistic coup in recent Tory history, May has shown herself to be utterly devoid of character, principle, policy, resolve or humanity. I was going to vote Green (I'm disillusioned, but I understand as the legacy of the fight for universal suffrage that as NOTA is unavailable, not voting is a poor choice), but as the campaign has gone on, I've slowly been persuaded that in my constituency, there is the possibility of the Labour candidate regaining the seat from the Conservatives. I know we've been beaten and bludgeoned into believing that austerity is the one true faith, but actually, it isn't. I'm a small business owner (have been since 1998), and today (perhaps ironically, Jonny!) we received our Certificate of Incorporation for our fledgling limited company. Nonetheless, this time, maybe for the last time, I'm voting Labour.
I don't think for a moment that Corbyn will win, though...
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Re: An informal election thread
[Re: Jim_Clennell]
#1602375
08/06/2017 19:11
08/06/2017 19:11
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 362 The Shire
skeandubh
Making a profit
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Making a profit
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 362
The Shire
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It's not easy, but don't you just vote for who you want to win (candidate, party or whatever)
Last edited by skeandubh; 08/06/2017 19:31.
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Re: An informal election thread
[Re: Jim_Clennell]
#1602376
08/06/2017 19:46
08/06/2017 19:46
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Jonny
Unregistered
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Jonny
Unregistered
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The irony is strong Jim! But good luck to you, and if Labour do get in, I will send you a business survival email.
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Re: An informal election thread
[Re: Edinburgh]
#1602378
08/06/2017 20:28
08/06/2017 20:28
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Jonny
Unregistered
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Jonny
Unregistered
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Once again, we can look to the business world to tell us who makes a good negotiator/deal maker. Nice people always fail. Absolute ***** always win. Do you still want Corbyn doing the deal for us?
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Re: An informal election thread
[Re: barnacle]
#1602381
08/06/2017 20:39
08/06/2017 20:39
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,294 Portsmouth
ali_hire
Forum is my life
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Forum is my life
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,294
Portsmouth
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I'm sorry but that's just not true.
Do you consider yourself a failure or an absolute *****?
Edited to add;
I get the sentiment, that you sometimes need to have a bit of a killer instinct when negotiating in the business world, but even if Corbyn lacks that, he wouldn't be sitting in a room on his own with 27 other diplomats working out these deals.
I'm pretty sure Keri Stamer (QC) will have faced some tough opposition in his time.
Last edited by ali_hire; 08/06/2017 20:44.
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