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Re: multiair mapping
[Re: samsite999]
#1566704
16/03/2016 19:59
16/03/2016 19:59
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,483 Lightwater, Surrey
DaveG
Club Treasurer Member 311
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Club Treasurer Member 311
Je suis un Coupé
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,483
Lightwater, Surrey
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But any new emissions reg's will normally only apply for cars produced after the time at which the reg's are introduced and not applied retrospectively, so a 2010 MultiAir engine should only need to meet the emissions specified at the time? Have you tried MonzaSport?
1996 Portofino 20vt & 2000 Pearl White Plus 2008 Ferrari F430 & 2017 Fiat 124 Spider
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Re: multiair mapping
[Re: Jim_Clennell]
#1566726
16/03/2016 22:33
16/03/2016 22:33
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Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 575 Ayrshire
ScouseCoupe
Enjoying the ride
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Enjoying the ride
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 575
Ayrshire
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I guess there must be a reason why the price is so high/tuners don't want to work with these models. Has anyone given one? Try Gus at Alfatune in St. Helens, its known he has tweaked the 1.7 TBi and MA engines.
1999 Rosso Corsa 20VT ( Restored ) 2000 Rosso Alfa 916 Spider 2.0 T.S Lusso ( Under Restoration)
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Re: multiair mapping
[Re: DaveG]
#1566753
17/03/2016 10:43
17/03/2016 10:43
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,405 Castle Combe
Flea
Forum is my life
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Forum is my life
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,405
Castle Combe
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It's a difficult and varied industry. With the advent of OBD flash mapping, especially diesels, the industry has a really wide variation of what is on offer, and also what is good. The reality being there are very few real tuners left, but rather car park "tuners" who have no knowledge of what they are doing other than to turn a laptop on, download - email file - receive email back - upload and then swipe your credit card for £200-300. Even the bigger tuning outfits invariably do no tuning, but follow the "bolt this and that on", and then upload Stage XX map. No tuning, and often no checking or dyno. In many ways there is good reason for all this, ECUs are so incredibly complicated. It requires far more knowledge of just basic tuning i.e. AFR, ignition, boost. If I equate the 16vt Coupe, that to me is similar to a basic standalone like Emerald, DTA etc. It has a file size of 32kb, not overly complicated, but still requires good understanding to do it well. Consider the Coupe 20vt, a vastly more complex ecu and difficult to tune well especially to higher power level, it has a file size of 64kb. Now consider a modern car where we have file sizes of 2mb!! You then have to consider that Bosch, Marelli, Siemens, Denso, Ford Visteon etc, all work in different ways with very little common within the fundamental architecture. They also require different hardware for communications, many cannot be done via OBD. Chipping is not what it used to be! For something like the Multiair, it will require me to remove the ecu, open it up and read out the data via BDM. The process of removing and opening an ecu can be very difficult and time consuming, and there is always an element of risk when opening the ecu (requires heat gun) as the ecu can be damaged during this process. Couple this with the time taken to tune the car (and I don't just mean a generic car park tune), and then for me I always test/tune on the road and dyno, it is by no means a straightforward task! If I was undertaking these daily then yes it would be possible to reduce time and costs somewhat, but I may see only one or two a year. Yes indeed, I don't think Flea needs to bother with us impoverished owners of Italian cars any more Dave, come now, I still spend a huge part of my time with Coupes, all around the world! This week alone I have tuned two UK Coupes, and have some great build projects on the go. Of course I am a specialist tuner with other marques, and I field an inordinate number of calls, messages and quotations daily so I am always time poor. Only one day off this year so far!
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Re: multiair mapping
[Re: coupedummy]
#1566762
17/03/2016 13:22
17/03/2016 13:22
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,961 west bromwich
coupedummy
Je suis un Coupé
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Je suis un Coupé
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,961
west bromwich
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Nice day rate, flea buys the curry next time we're out! I see you avoided one o the most important statements!
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Re: multiair mapping
[Re: coupedummy]
#1566808
17/03/2016 18:59
17/03/2016 18:59
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,405 Castle Combe
Flea
Forum is my life
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Forum is my life
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,405
Castle Combe
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Nice day rate, flea buys the curry next time we're out! I see you avoided one o the most important statements! I'll buy you a poppadom starter, how's that!!
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Re: multiair mapping
[Re: Flea]
#1566820
17/03/2016 21:06
17/03/2016 21:06
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,783 In the coupe.
magooagain
Club Member 259
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Club Member 259
Forum is my life
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,783
In the coupe.
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Nice day rate, flea buys the curry next time we're out! I see you avoided one o the most important statements! I'll buy you a poppadom starter, how's that!! You're just trying to curry favour now!
Last edited by magooagain; 17/03/2016 21:07.
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Re: multiair mapping
[Re: Flea]
#1566844
18/03/2016 00:15
18/03/2016 00:15
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,961 west bromwich
coupedummy
Je suis un Coupé
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Je suis un Coupé
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,961
west bromwich
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Nice day rate, flea buys the curry next time we're out! I see you avoided one o the most important statements! I'll buy you a poppadom starter, how's that!! Getting generous in your old age! Hope Sam finds someone as would love to see the results from these 1400cc
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Re: multiair mapping
[Re: Flea]
#1566845
18/03/2016 00:22
18/03/2016 00:22
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 11,159 ,
samsite999
OP
I AM a Coop
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OP
I AM a Coop
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 11,159
,
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It's a difficult and varied industry. With the advent of OBD flash mapping, especially diesels, the industry has a really wide variation of what is on offer, and also what is good. The reality being there are very few real tuners left, but rather car park "tuners" who have no knowledge of what they are doing other than to turn a laptop on, download - email file - receive email back - upload and then swipe your credit card for £200-300. Even the bigger tuning outfits invariably do no tuning, but follow the "bolt this and that on", and then upload Stage XX map. No tuning, and often no checking or dyno. In many ways there is good reason for all this, ECUs are so incredibly complicated. It requires far more knowledge of just basic tuning i.e. AFR, ignition, boost. If I equate the 16vt Coupe, that to me is similar to a basic standalone like Emerald, DTA etc. It has a file size of 32kb, not overly complicated, but still requires good understanding to do it well. Consider the Coupe 20vt, a vastly more complex ecu and difficult to tune well especially to higher power level, it has a file size of 64kb. Now consider a modern car where we have file sizes of 2mb!! You then have to consider that Bosch, Marelli, Siemens, Denso, Ford Visteon etc, all work in different ways with very little common within the fundamental architecture. They also require different hardware for communications, many cannot be done via OBD. Chipping is not what it used to be! For something like the Multiair, it will require me to remove the ecu, open it up and read out the data via BDM. The process of removing and opening an ecu can be very difficult and time consuming, and there is always an element of risk when opening the ecu (requires heat gun) as the ecu can be damaged during this process. Couple this with the time taken to tune the car (and I don't just mean a generic car park tune), and then for me I always test/tune on the road and dyno, it is by no means a straightforward task! If I was undertaking these daily then yes it would be possible to reduce time and costs somewhat, but I may see only one or two a year. Yes indeed, I don't think Flea needs to bother with us impoverished owners of Italian cars any more Dave, come now, I still spend a huge part of my time with Coupes, all around the world! This week alone I have tuned two UK Coupes, and have some great build projects on the go. Of course I am a specialist tuner with other marques, and I field an inordinate number of calls, messages and quotations daily so I am always time poor. Only one day off this year so far! Fair comment, I wasn't aware you actually had to take of the ECU, pull it apart and directly read the chip. I thought it was a case of reading and then flashing though the port. I have seen a few people go though the car park flash and walk away with really quite bad results. Any how, I was also interested to see why people were writing the multiair off so quickly. If it was a technical issue as regards the complexity of the ECU (able to control air injection now) or if it was a case of there were no real returns or fail rates were high.
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Re: multiair mapping
[Re: samsite999]
#1566846
18/03/2016 00:27
18/03/2016 00:27
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elder81
Unregistered
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elder81
Unregistered
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@flea
My research has shown there is not one single tuner worldwide that can remap the Panda 100hp.
Any idea why that maybe? I am sure there are some possible gains from what seems to be a peach of an engine.
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Re: multiair mapping
[Re: samsite999]
#1566868
18/03/2016 10:11
18/03/2016 10:11
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elder81
Unregistered
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elder81
Unregistered
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The turbo'd ones need a new ECU and that has been done many a time. Although that presents other significant issues.
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Re: multiair mapping
[Re: samsite999]
#1566890
18/03/2016 12:55
18/03/2016 12:55
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elder81
Unregistered
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elder81
Unregistered
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Contacted ProAlfa "Good morning Sorry the panda 100hp ecu is not mapable, the only option we have would be to run a standalone ecu at around £2000 fitted and mapped" 100hp works for me lol
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Re: multiair mapping
[Re: samsite999]
#1566891
18/03/2016 13:08
18/03/2016 13:08
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,244 Watford, Herts.
Hyperlink
Forum is my life
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Forum is my life
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,244
Watford, Herts.
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Ah ok fair enough. I Wasn't completely sure what they had done on the one they had in. Its making 200hp now so whatever they did was pretty major I guess.
Last edited by Hyperlink; 18/03/2016 13:15.
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Re: multiair mapping
[Re: samsite999]
#1566913
18/03/2016 15:09
18/03/2016 15:09
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elder81
Unregistered
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elder81
Unregistered
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Indeed doesn't sound turbo'd either.
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Re: multiair mapping
[Re: ]
#1566958
18/03/2016 20:26
18/03/2016 20:26
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Pondman
Unregistered
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Pondman
Unregistered
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The turbo'd ones need a new ECU and that has been done many a time. Although that presents other significant issues. I was looking at one of these on EBay the other day with some curiosity! Out of interest, what "issues" arise by turbo charging a 100hp Panda?
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