This is a discussion, I am not thinking I am right or correct, just some thoughts put out there in Coupe land.

There's a trend with Coupe's these days. The ones that are coming up on eBay and the like ... are all needing work. Many descriptions will be fluffed up, using the "soon to be classic' or 'investment for the future' line.... Very few, are honest and even less will have an owner who realises just what work needs doing.

Most cases will be; "I know whats wrong, a mechanic told me, I enquired about the costs; sod that, I'll pass it on"

Trouble is, I feel, is that most these sellers whom have the cars realise that the 'real life' costs to get it any where near a condition that would be of interest to a collector or make them some money from someone seeking a mint example amount into the thousands.

From my experience I would say that this will encroach into the 5000+ mark for most all of them. Take it from someone who knows, and members with great examples; do some maths on what you have spent...

This leaves a situation where you can be honest like the guy on eBay now, or play the 'future' classic line and try and get as much as you possibly can, knowing 'most likely' that you simply cannot afford to pay out for what needs doing.

It also leaves a situation where the real cost for a great coupe does amount to £4-16,000. There are no short cuts. I feel there really are no bargains anymore. Sure you can buy a £800.00 coupe, but see above!

We could also see ourselves as a little lucky at the moment, as values for Coupes (standard) seem to be higher abroad than in the UK presently.

So, back to the thread ... maybe for sellers, it's a case of 'get what I can' and pass the issues on and hope that someone thinks out there in bidding land that "this car will make me a lot of money one day" I'll bid it.

Where does this leave buyers? Well, you either pay for a well cared for car, buy a cheap one and pay the costs to get it where you want it (with most men this will be mint) or hope and pray there is someone selling a coupe who does not really understand what they have and it's been looked after.



The issues these cars have are costly these days. There is no escaping! A neglected car is a neglected car.



I feel we are seeing cars coming online for sale that have been bought, the real costs have been realised, and are now being passed on again, or they've been sitting somewhere, the costs to get it back to scratch are a lot, and owners are seeing that Coupes could well be a classic - Insert £ signs in eyes .... If they were any good the seller would keep, wouldn't they?

No, I really think that the costs to get things back together are known. And they cannot afford to do this or have no real desire to do so.

Whatever happened to genuine reason for sale

It is more important these days for the 'buyer' to be very aware of what the real costs are involved in getting a coupe up to scratch. There are NO bargains!



So, if you want a good one, you must pay or be prepared to pay to restore. One way or the other .... for a good coupe, you will pay!

There also seems to be confusion. Many people wondering, what have I got, what's it's desirability???

There is no 'which' is better coupe presently. You see all sorts of things on the net. Is my 1995 16V worth tens of thousands - No it isn't, is my 20V N/A worth more than a 16V, is my Turbo Plus or LE worth more than a standard Turbo?



The latter of that lot s probably true. For the others, presently, there are no rules and there are no fixed values.

Value comes when someone understands the history, significance of a car model, understands the value of the condition the car is in and appreciates how little work (or how much) that said car needs actually doing to make it mint.

What people sometimes forget is the hassle of doing cars up, it's not just buying parts, it's the fitting, the selection of the right part, organising shipping, sourcing, getting the car to a mechanic, hidden costs upon fitting the part(s). It all ads up and it can be a real ball ache! I think we all agree to this. We don't add any value to this.

Modified cars, most likely, will not attain high values. If you were in the market to buy a Ford RS Turbo, and there were two for sale. Which would you buy, the one with a good history, having been restored to near standard condition or the one that has been modified to hell with a nice body kit, revamped engine and top spec interior (not standard). You'd buy the first one ..... Unless you were looking to buy and not expect any value back in the future.



So now we see we 'maybe' have two kinds of buyer "the one who wants to collect and use it for shows etc., the Garage Queens or the one who wants a Wolf in sheep's clothing and a fun car to use.

The unfortunate situation we have now is as Brilly said in another post, it's 'everyday' coupes that are for sale. The ones that survived pretty well, not the best, not the worst. All needing work! Those coupe's that have never really seen much love, been left on the roadside and problems are now becoming more frequent. Time to off load.

When was the last time you saw a really nice example, well cared for, and had all the work done advertised? Hard to recall isn't it! Really, its tough to see a advert for a great coupe with everything done!



For me, the interesting thing is that Coupes (the really good ones) can be sold without being advertising nationally..... But, the fact remains, that there are fewer and fewer decent examples about.

If your looking for a good coupe these days, you need to think differently about where to get one.

So, this leads us to .... which is desirable, they all are is the answer. But for a collector, which may be hold the most value?


My thoughts, (I reiterate, my thoughts) are like this ... the following cars will command value.

Very desirable
Turbo Plus and LE
Very early 16V (model introduction)
16V Turbo

Desirable
VT6

Probably desirable
Low mileage and mint well looked after 20V N/A or VIS
Mint standard 20VT coupes will also have value and maybe a market for mint standard examples that have some modification for power and everyday use. If all the major work has been carried out.

However, if and when values really rocket. They may do, but may not also. Any coupe in any condition will then command a high price. We are not at this stage yet. We are at the 'get what I can for this future classic' stage....

Thoughts guys?

I'm not sure I agree with the desirability list. I don't see how a standard 20vt could be much different to a run out* model; is it just a case of these cars being better kept? But then again it appears to me that some of these cars seem to be sold with the value of maintenance attached (back to my point about the difference in preconceived value).

I do suspect that all the Coupé family are worth about the same as of today and what we see are some owners looking to recover money spent by declaring their car to be a future classic or rare. Don't get me wrong, there are some great later examples that are worth good money. I'm just perplexed as to why we don't see even half the asking price for a nice 20VT.

* I exclude the LE model as this was a geniune addition to the range.

With regard to desirability; as I said at the start szkom, it's my thoughts, what I think. I understand your point of view.

I am in no way, as stated, thinking this is in anyway gospel.

Run out or no run out, the Plus was the last of the line for special editions in my head

As for values differing with 20VT and say the Plus or LE. When was the last time you saw a sorted example of a 20VT for sale? I mean a really well cared for one that had all the issues addressed? There are none as far as I can tell. I can't remember seeing a sorted one for sale recently at all?

Has this not been the case for a while now though?

When I bought my 1St 20vt 8years ago, I paid £1800, cloth interior, none of the big jobs done and all needed doing in the near future. 2years later I sold it for £900, still with none of the big jobs done, around 15000 miles extra on the clock but had put new exhaust on, disc and pads, Oil change. So that was £900 “loss“ if you want to call it that lol.

It's only very recently I feel that prices have slightly come up but this leaves me wondering, does it matter? I've no plans on selling my le.

Now if I was to add up the money spent on my le including purchase price I'm around £7000, so surely if I was to sell I'd be looking at selling for around that price, do I think it'll will sell at that, no I don't. And why would I want to sell it for anything less, I work hard for my money, I've put a lot of time and effort into my le, all major jobs done.

The reason I don't think it would sell is because people can go on ebay and see coupes for around £700,1000,1500 etc and so end up thinking why should I pay £7000 for my coupe. Majority of potential buyers I feel still aren't bothered about looking after their potential coupe, I could be wrong but then wouldn't there be a lot more good condition coupes up for sale?

So to finish, coupes are split, those that haven't had the money spent and go for cheap money, then those that have had the money spent and command a higher price but struggle to sell unless the right buyer comes a long who knows what their getting.

Good post

This is where i have changed my coupe.

My car had served me well over the year with great memories.
Having an opportunity for an early 43k standard 20vt was very desirable for a few reasons.
Im in this for the long haul! Not a quick buck.
Probably only half the amount of coupes in there original form now.
Cost- I was lucky.

I gave up my coupe which had all big mechanical jobs done for a standard coupe that needs a respray and some residuals.

My desirable hierarchy list-
Any low miles good standard coupe- Under 50k
Above that-
Le Model
Plus Model
16v
20vt
20v

Certainly different to my perfect coupe, but as a long term coupe owner my heart is with a standard coupe that drawn me here in the first place.

Pretty much exactly the same reason why i have ended up with a Cinquecento Sporting with 16k on the clock.

I dont think the LE or Plus is worth the premium over a decent 20vt I really dont see them as 'special' or that desirable to command such a price premium.

I actually dislike the LE as I find it quite garish, for me "whore's boudoir" describes the interior.

I much prefer the understated nature of the plus though I would not be prepared to pay a huge premium for one.

Lol. I remember seeing my 1St le in the flesh while I had my 20vt,that was it, I had to have one.

I just love the red and black, very 90's

patch here's a question for you...

Would you rather see a Coupe being heavily, poorly modified inside and out (a bit like that silver one in the picture you have posted) and it had to permanently stay ugly that way

OR

would you rather see it being scrapped?

But we can't do anymore than speculate on that. I don't think it's any surprise that a newer car might need less doing. But there's nothing to say that the 20VT that are for sale will be ~7k worse than any other.

Great read patch, I agree with all the points that you have stated...
im a petrolhead always have been, all my past and present girlfriends have all commented that they wish they had wheels....in the 90s I was into lancias.i had a delta turbo for 12yrs....bought and sold many fulvias over the years and look at the price of those now....I truly believe that the coupe will command top dollar in the next 3+5 yrs...at the moment the rough coupes are being bought up cheap just like the lancias where...
remember when there gone........there gone.

I think they should command at least the same as GTV's. But what is happening (I think) is that the price guides are way behind, and people take too much notice of these. A car will sell for what someone is willing to pay. I have seen 6K examples out there...... It all depends on condition when you're looking for a car doesn't it. If someone wants one, and someone is selling a mint one, and there are not many around in such condition, then a deal is done.....

But I will add to this, the average 20VT price has definitely risen this past year

What the market needs is an absolute minter, must be standard or minimal mods, low mileage, good history, well looked after ..... and see what the market decides. But not on eBay

I'd just rather people just would not do that ...... But it's none of my business what people do with their property, so.....

Agree with Pete. The LE will always have the LE number riveted to it, and so will always attract a following. But, many will look to the plus for it's understated interior. I would prefer a standard 20VT or Plus to an LE.

As the cars get older and rarer, you'll get a variety of classic car buyers, who all have different views of the perfect Coupe.

Some will want the early 16v for the Lampredi heritage, others will want the 20v for the sound. There will be buyers for the rarer colours and early / late models.

While we are making a list of "undesirables" should we include the VIS? It is probably as different (wheels, engine, power etc) to other Coupes, as an LE is to a standard 20VT. The VIS was only produced late in the production run, so represents the last of the NA Coupes.

But, I'm a realist. The turbos (in good condition) will almost certainly fetch more than the NAs. The LEs and Plus are the special versions of the turbo, so by definition are the creme de la creme.

But there will always be buyers for the underdog, or simply something a bit different to the crowd.

Agree. It's what floats your boat that matters. I'm planning on keeping my LE even though it has a 'whores boudoir' interior

Guys if you're going to insult the LE interior can you please at least get it right, it's a Tarts boudoir OK

The LE interior does not need insulting. It is an insult in and of itself.

On the question of value: the difference between a 'book value' of a couple of grand and of six or seven or ten grand is the difference between a minor prang writing off your car, and getting it fixed. And indeed, spending the money to keep the car in condition anyway.

I always thought that the LE looked similar to the pop group Cameo's lead singer:

The LE

I think part of the problem of which model will be the most desirable/valuable, is that almost all of the recent articles I have read regarding the coupe being a classic/future classic, state somewhere that "the run out models the Plus and LE are the ones to go for" or something similar

This may or may not be true, but if all the articles continue to state it, people will believe it.

When/if all coupes, even poor ones do start to be worth serious money, then I believe the Plus & LE will continue to attract a considerable premium ahead of other models.

I'm pleased that finally all coupes are becoming both rare and talked about in the press, even piston heads comments on recent thread are talking favorably about them at last (mostly)

I think the turning point for the coupe has already happened, it will only get more interesting and exciting for owners from here on. We almost need a mind-set change about what and where the coupe is now.
My previous coupes were all daily drivers, however my current one (when I eventually get around to restoring it) will be a Sunday driver only and kept forever. In fact I'm seriously considering snapping up a few cheapies before the door firmly snaps shut.

Desirable - definitely
Loved - Certainly
Classic - If it looks like a duck...

What I meant to say was, if it was your decision?

Well, in that case, It would stay the ugly one If I owned it, it would be put back to standard, but I would never buy it, so.....

What about you?

Not sure on the plus thing, the lux badge does nothing for the escorts rs, usually it's only factory performance upgrades that create the extra premium. I can see that with the le, it has a special badge, the vt6 is just about a plus and some are identical.
I think colour will be the first thing to drive up prices - many posts on here wanting a 'leccy blue car so these should command a premium.
The coupe is well behind the gtv, but then it's a fiat not an alfa...

Look at the 90's models of Maserati, on the up quite rapidly, after being in doldrums for years, Coupe's, GTV's will start to go up in value once all the rust buckets and scrappers due to repair costs die off.

Colour of the Coupe will be key as long as the paintwork is in top condition, whether original or a full respray.

Personally i think as long as the Coupe models are in standard form, they will get a better price. Too many standard 20VT's with LE or Plus kits on them and / or the sills painted instead of black.

Folders of history with a good Coupe will also help values. Part history is no good.

What's the point of a Coop that no longer looks nice? I'd scrap it.

Whhaatt?? Scrap a Coupe because it no longer LOOKS nice?
No way. No no way. It's the driving experience as much as the looks that I buy my cars for. Once you're behind the wheel it's the sound, acceleration and handling that, for me, float my boat much more than how shiny or rust free it is on the outside.
Sure, a clean car is a bonus, but my cars are for me to drive foremost, and then for others to look at as a secondary.
Send your tatty but working Coupes my way, not the scrappers

You guys have forgotten the 1.8L!

and the diesel conversion

100% agree Huw

Some on here may remember CarlT and his in my view questionable business model...the amount of cars that were chopped by him and others like him was just plain crazy...it seemed at times decent enough cars were chopped for him to flog a forum member a set of seats! I think the wisdom on here at the time was that he was doing the Coupe world a favour cheap parts and those he didnt get his hands on would see their desirability increase along with the market price. I didnt buy into it. Guess having made his money chopping and cannabilising Coupes he has moved on to the next marque.

Conversely we could thank him for those that feel a Plus is worth circa £4.5k more than a similar 20vt, I dont buy that either. I share BigMuzzie and ScouseCoupe's thoughts on desirability majoring on condition, colour and level of mods i.e none.

I cannot buy into (literally) the marketing ploy and now perception of exclusivity that the LE/Plus models were created for, much like the Alfa Romeo GTV Cup.

If its based on colour, I will need to write a lament to my Scots Green coupe as alas it seems the most unpopular!!

Per previous comments here, unmodified with history, with perhaps a premium for the factory modified models (I would probably pay a little more for a 6 speed box if given the choice).

Does it seem like the later model ones seem to suffer more from corrosion? Mine is 1997/8, and is in extremely good nick rust wise (I took the plunge and had it painted based on inspecting and no areas to worry about underneath, in the boot, or around the sills/arches). The few late models I have seen seem to have rear arch/boot/sill/floor issues. Alfa 155s are the same if this is the case. Early skinny bodies seem much more resistant, as do early (up to N plate) wide bodies, whilst very late widies (P and R) seem to be falling to bits.

History is interesting too. Is a good car with limited past history going to suffer in price, if recent history showing all the right things done is present?

If I were looking at a car that had recent clutch, belts, service, and some evidence of recent parts being replaced (suspension etc), I would not be concerned about not having a fat file with the original PDI in it. Not all good cars have had owners diligent or clever enough to keep all the receipts!

Wow really like this thread and discusion so I will try my best to comment on what are Coupes worth in South Europe ( Slovenia, Croatia, Italy)

First of all I would like to agree/disagree on certian facts:

- Turbo will always be worth more than N/A if they are in same condition! (fun factor)
-LE and plus/vt6 more valuable than other Coupe's, most definitely as they are rare..and rare means more value!
Not so much on 1.8 SE as it lacks fun factor with only 131 HP
-Original 1.8 and 16, 20vNA in very good condition are as valued as LE or PLUs or 20VT in bad condition. Why? Maintainace cost.
(price range 3000-4000€)
-originality in Italian Cars always beats tuned/riced cars
it almost completely around in Japanese cars ( Honda's VTI are worth more if riced than normal :D)


Values of Coupe in Italy
-500€-1500€
Scrap coupes that worn't loved at all, riced to hell, plain ugly
-1500-2500€
Coupes in good mechanical condition, not so much external condition, little rust , probably needs service.
-2500€-3500€
all N/A coupe in good contition,very well maintained and loved, not moded or riced in anyway (90% of them are all original)
16VT and 20VT models in fairly good condition, but not excelent
-3500€-5000€
16VT and 20VT in great condition, some riced, some tuned to 350-450HP, LE's in fairly good condition
N/A models in excelent condition ( no rust, full service book, less than 100.000km or even less than 75.000km)
-5000€-7500€
LE's and Plus Models in very good condition but not perfect, optimistic people with riced 20VT's
-7500€-10.000€
Highly tuned 20VT 400HP+, LE's in excelent condtion, mint really, engine, interior and exterior looks like new, all original
Very few Plus models.....
-10.000€+
saw probably 5 Coupes in 5years on looking in this market
20VT's or 16VT or PLus's in "like new condition", less tha 50.000km on the clock, everything in mint condition.
No rust, imaculate laquer, "untouched" interior
Funny that these adds were gone after just a few months.

As for comparison I bought my VIS with original 85.000km imported from Italy with no rust(very very little, engine worked superb)
Paint was ok, some scrathes, but in general in good conditions....For 2500€ which is cheap considering that at the same time a green VIS with same equipment as mine ( aut. aircon. supported seats, original 4 spoke VIS alloys) costed 3500€ in Germany and almost 4000€ in Italy ( that was 3 years ago).
But needed full engine service that costed me 800€ ( which was cheap compared that some service garages priced me at 1100-1400€)

Cant compare the prices in Slovenia or Croatia are Coupes are very rare, and prices can differ to the market or rare-ity.
But I saw some mint Coupes (mostly 1.8) sold from 1500-3000€.
20VT are very rare, one sold about month ago for 3000€ but needed clutch replacement and the paint was really bad.
LE's or PLUS's are nowhere to be found here.
About 8 years ago I knew a guy who had a 450HP Moon grey plus which was sold in Italy for 15.000€....But that was in 2008.....

I think that these factors apply for a Coop value to be high
-as original as it can be ( maybe with LE bodykit and excelent paitjob)
-loved and cared Coupes
-20VT, 16VT's, PLUS's and LE's
-original 16VT's or 20VT with higher HP( I think it doesn't not affect "originality" factor
-all N/A's will newer reach as high numbers as the turbos

As for the color "popularity" goes. If the paint is in excelent condition, Coupes in any color are beautiful.Even Energy green
I really don't like yellow Coupes, but last year I saw one with new paintjob it was really beautiful!