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Re: Here's one for the spoiler experts. [Re: ] #1195421
02/04/2011 09:49
02/04/2011 09:49
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Jimbo Offline
Je suis un Coupé
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I believe the wind tunnel tests proved the rear spoiler didn't work, the coupé needed the squared off rear end to prevent the body from creating lift.

Re: Here's one for the spoiler experts. [Re: charlie_croker] #1195464
02/04/2011 12:14
02/04/2011 12:14

P
proccy
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good stuff CC cool

Re: Here's one for the spoiler experts. [Re: Jimbo] #1195499
02/04/2011 14:26
02/04/2011 14:26
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,034
Sweden
Per Offline
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Here's another:
click to enlarge

smile

Originally Posted By: Jimbo
I believe the wind tunnel tests proved the rear spoiler didn't work, the coupé needed the squared off rear end to prevent the body from creating lift.

Well no, they did extensive windtunnel experiments on the Coupe (even with long 917-style tails - according to Mr Bangle smile ). It's true they settled on the "boot"-rear cos the slanted hatchback-rear created too much lift. And they got rid of so much lift they didn't need additional spoiler. That said, a small lip/spoiler like the one pictured will probably work very well, and reduce lift even further.

Re: Here's one for the spoiler experts. [Re: Jimbo] #1195541
02/04/2011 18:35
02/04/2011 18:35
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Posts: 2,617
SE Essex
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Originally Posted By: Jimbo
I believe the wind tunnel tests proved the rear spoiler didn't work, the coupé needed the squared off rear end to prevent the body from creating lift.


I thought that the hatchback rear boot was creating lift, which is why they went for the squared off rear (Technically called apparently a termed a Kamm Tail, end or back)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kammback http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wunibald_Kamm

I was originally quite opposed to rear spoilers on the Coupe but having recently seen both an M3, M5 and Cada I am starting to wonder if they don't add some visual impact to the rear of the Coupe.

click to enlarge

click to enlarge

click to enlarge
click to enlarge


Happy
Re: Here's one for the spoiler experts. [Re: charlie_croker] #1195544
02/04/2011 18:41
02/04/2011 18:41
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JKD Offline
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Does the Coupe really have a Kamm Tail? I know the Alfa GTV certainly does...

Re: Here's one for the spoiler experts. [Re: charlie_croker] #1195546
02/04/2011 18:43
02/04/2011 18:43
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More on the design of the Coupe, just in case you haven't seen it before.
click to enlarge
click to enlarge
click to enlarge


Happy
Re: Here's one for the spoiler experts. [Re: Per] #1195633
02/04/2011 22:24
02/04/2011 22:24
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Originally Posted By: Per
a small lip/spoiler like the one pictured will probably work very well, and reduce lift even further.


Not really Per, you want the air to separate from the rear of the car cleanly, a spoiler (unless its a wing giving down force) will just make the air more turbulent at the rear which can actually slow the car down.

Re: Here's one for the spoiler experts. [Re: ] #1195899
03/04/2011 17:13
03/04/2011 17:13
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Sweden
Per Offline
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So that's why this kind of spoiler is so frequent on high-end cars like Audi RS-series, BMW M-series and Mercedes AMG-series..? That they're originally too fast..? wink
No really, it helps!

Re: Here's one for the spoiler experts. [Re: ] #1195961
03/04/2011 20:42
03/04/2011 20:42

R
rAzOr_20vt
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rAzOr_20vt
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click to enlarge My M3 spoiler ... fitted for aesthetic purposes only laugh

Re: Here's one for the spoiler experts. [Re: ] #1195976
03/04/2011 21:12
03/04/2011 21:12

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dlongstaff
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Originally Posted By: rAzOr_20vt
click to enlarge My M3 spoiler ... fitted for aesthetic purposes only laugh

My two pennies, I think that the M3 is the most aesthetic and tempting.
The ones at the beginning of the post, look like they have fallen off, just not right.
When you see a Supra without a rear wing it just looks odd. So maybe its conditioning, if the coupe came originally with a wing fitted I wouldn't be saying that I think the coupe is one of the sports cars that really dont need a rear wing. Maybe they got it right! unlike the TT?
As an aside without going way off THIS is very interesting to watch on its own, but look at the wings front and back about half way through.

Re: Here's one for the spoiler experts. [Re: ] #1196145
04/04/2011 10:18
04/04/2011 10:18
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There's a difference between a spoiler and a wing

A spoiler is designed to interrupt (or spoil) the airflow over the rear edge of the bootlid. This helps to reduce the partial vacuum behind the rear of the car, which in turn reduces drag

A wing is designed to provide downforce, and doesn't care too much about drag

The vast majority of spoilers / wings are NOT designed to create downforce (or even to reduce lift) - they are designed to LOOK like they create downforce

Actually, I tell a lie - a wing that weighs 10kg will, by its very nature, produce 10kg more downforce. However, so would ten bags of sugar in the boot AND the sugar in the boot would be aesthetically more pleasing


[Linked Image]
Re: Here's one for the spoiler experts. [Re: ] #1196153
04/04/2011 10:27
04/04/2011 10:27
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Sweden
Per Offline
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Diffusors are nicer aswell.

Re: Here's one for the spoiler experts. [Re: Per] #1196193
04/04/2011 11:53
04/04/2011 11:53
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Originally Posted By: Per
So that's why this kind of spoiler is so frequent on high-end cars like Audi RS-series, BMW M-series and Mercedes AMG-series..? That they're originally too fast..? wink
No really, it helps!


Per,
The designers of these cars will do wind tunnel testing to make sure the spoilers have the correct effect, they don't just go to Halfords and glue on a spoiler or select one from another make of car and hope it will have the desired effect.
Look at the Bugatti, the spoiler is retracted in standard mode and that's speeds up to 137mph, it deploys to give downforce in handling mode and in high speed mode it's flush with the chassis.

Each to their own, I personally don't like the look of a wing or spoiler on the coupé but that's a styling choice and it's personal.

Re: Here's one for the spoiler experts. [Re: ] #1196222
04/04/2011 13:16
04/04/2011 13:16
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Posts: 2,617
SE Essex
charlie_croker Offline
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I know someone involved with design of Mk1 RS Focus and they told me that when they wind tunnel tested those, that the car needed 3BHP less power at 100MPH when fitted with the rear spoiler.

However, each spoiler needs to be wind tunnel tested for the coupe to indicate whether it would aid the Coupe


Happy
Re: Here's one for the spoiler experts. [Re: ] #1196229
04/04/2011 13:23
04/04/2011 13:23
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,617
SE Essex
charlie_croker Offline
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Also didn't they have to retro fit the little spoiler to all Mk1 Audi TTs together with ESP due to lift off oversteer accidents?


Happy
Re: Here's one for the spoiler experts. [Re: ] #1196265
04/04/2011 14:37
04/04/2011 14:37
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Per Offline
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Originally Posted By: charlie_croker

However, each spoiler needs to be wind tunnel tested for the coupe to indicate whether it would aid the Coupe

Well, there are some basic aerodynamic rules which applies to most 3-box cars (which the Coupe essentially is). The release at the end of the Coupe trunklid is a typical situation where you don't really need tests in windtunnels to make some estimations, if you like me, has seen a few before (I work at Volvo Cars, exterior design).

Wings however, can do with some testing on the specific car to see if they add downforce or just drag..

Re: Here's one for the spoiler experts. [Re: ] #1196267
04/04/2011 14:43
04/04/2011 14:43
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Posts: 2,617
SE Essex
charlie_croker Offline
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But surely the lip at bottom of rear bumper fulfils that role?

rAzOr_20vt I like that spoiler, can you post some more pics as I am considering the M3 spoiler for my Sprinty. It looks good, very good in fact!


Happy
Re: Here's one for the spoiler experts. [Re: ] #1196276
04/04/2011 14:59
04/04/2011 14:59

R
rAzOr_20vt
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rAzOr_20vt
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R



Yeah no problem mate, i'll post some pictures later tonight.

Re: Here's one for the spoiler experts. [Re: ] #1196299
04/04/2011 15:38
04/04/2011 15:38
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Sweden
Per Offline
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Originally Posted By: charlie_croker
But surely the lip at bottom of rear bumper fulfils that role?

rAzOr_20vt I like that spoiler, can you post some more pics as I am considering the M3 spoiler for my Sprinty. It looks good, very good in fact!

The lower lip is mostly hiding the screws + stiffens the bumperskin. It's possible that it helps release..

Mine's here (M5-spoiler):
http://sfk.ibk.se/depa/showfile.php?carpic_no=2442&type=picture
http://sfk.ibk.se/depa/showfile.php?carpic_no=2441&type=picture
http://sfk.ibk.se/depa/showfile.php?carpic_no=2440&type=picture

Re: Here's one for the spoiler experts. [Re: ] #1196312
04/04/2011 16:00
04/04/2011 16:00
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,617
SE Essex
charlie_croker Offline
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Per, that looks great, your coupe looks pretty awesome, can you post a photo from straight behind? As if being followed by another car?


Happy
Re: Here's one for the spoiler experts. [Re: ] #1196357
04/04/2011 18:47
04/04/2011 18:47

R
rAzOr_20vt
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rAzOr_20vt
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click to enlarge click to enlarge click to enlarge
.. i would like to point out these are old pictures minus some mods; coil overs, exhaust and rear wiper arm removed etc laugh

Re: Here's one for the spoiler experts. [Re: ] #1196367
04/04/2011 19:03
04/04/2011 19:03
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,617
SE Essex
charlie_croker Offline
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rAzOr_20vt That's made my mind up for me, I will be getting an M3 spoiler! Cheers for the photos, that looks awesome


Happy
Re: Here's one for the spoiler experts. [Re: ] #1196368
04/04/2011 19:06
04/04/2011 19:06

R
rAzOr_20vt
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R



laugh very good choice and thanks very much laugh lol

Re: Here's one for the spoiler experts. [Re: ] #1546574
07/08/2015 19:30
07/08/2015 19:30
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Posts: 296
Boston, UK
Spoonz Offline
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sorry to bring this up from the dead, i never knew the spoiler was fitted wrong crazy

still the same to this day, 4 years on laugh

click to enlarge
click to enlarge

Last edited by Spoonz; 07/08/2015 19:31.

Signature to large. 300 x 100 max
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