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Belgium GP #1504177
22/08/2014 09:29
22/08/2014 09:29
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bezzer Offline OP
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After a 3 week break the 2014 GP season resumes.

A few developments during the break with Kobayashi and Chilton both being 'dumped' by their respective teams for Spa.

Kamui seems to have been replaced due to his inferior feedback given to his race engineers. Seems odd they then bring in André Lotterer who last had F1 experience 12 years ago. Despite what a few F1 journos have said I can't see how he can jump in an F1 car and make a difference. Hope I'm proved wrong.

Max seems to be missing out due to 'contractual issues'. Rumour has it the money his Daddy pays Marussia for the seat hasn't appeared this month. Hopefully it'll get sorted before Monza.

Anyway, back to the race. As much as I'd like to see Ricciardo or Bottas take a win I think it'll be a Merc driver on the top step. If Hamilton can keep his car on the tarmac in Quali I reckon he'll win on Sunday.

Quali and the race -

1. Hamilton
2. Rosberg
3. Bottas



......My Boy...... (PB #7)
Re: Belgium GP [Re: bezzer] #1504180
22/08/2014 09:49
22/08/2014 09:49
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Not much to add to that, Bezzer! Although I think I have Ricciardo in 3rd rather than Bottas. Remembering last season, I reckon Red Bull might come back from the break with a little extra...

Re: Belgium GP [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1504182
22/08/2014 10:04
22/08/2014 10:04
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Originally Posted By: Jim_Clennell
Not much to add to that, Bezzer! Although I think I have Ricciardo in 3rd rather than Bottas. Remembering last season, I reckon Red Bull might come back from the break with a little extra...

It debatable about that, as this will be a power circuit, so think the Red Bull's may suffer, as they are all about downforce and as I've typed this, Ted has just said this is the first low down force circuit of the year


Originally Posted by Jonny - After being taken out at Spa
Your car is Usain Bolt with wellies
Re: Belgium GP [Re: bezzer] #1504186
22/08/2014 10:24
22/08/2014 10:24
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And now it's just been announced that Max C will be driving from FP2 onwards


Originally Posted by Jonny - After being taken out at Spa
Your car is Usain Bolt with wellies
Re: Belgium GP [Re: bezzer] #1504189
22/08/2014 10:37
22/08/2014 10:37
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I bet Rossi is pissed off! And Daddy Chilton's wallet a bit lighter...

Certainly a good point about low downforce, it will be interesting to see how the RBR cars do.

Re: Belgium GP [Re: bezzer] #1504195
22/08/2014 11:06
22/08/2014 11:06
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IIRC, the "problem" with Spa is that whilst its a low downforce circuit, there are two epic corners (Eau Rouge and Blanchimont) that require good mechanical grip and balance - the former dictates the speed up the Kemmel straight so is critical

Unless RB has some significant power upgrades, I foresee them being embarrassed on Sunday.

I reckon this is Bottas' best chance this year of the top step on the podium - the Williams is capable enough and Valteri seems to have the will to do it - if Felipe can survive the first lap, he might end up playing a critical role in helping Valteri stay at the front

A also foresee another Mercedes failure, which as long as it's Nico, will keep up the interest in the driver's championship for a little longer.

If both Mercs survive, I don't see a Bahrain-style battle, as I reckon there's a concerted effort on the part of the strategists to keep them apart as much as possible when on track

Sadly though, I reckon at least one of the Mercs will just drive off into the distance, lapping everyone up to 4th or 5th place

Would be nice to see Nico have a poor quali and see whether he can do what Lewis has done, with a strong fight from the back of the grid. Hungary was a game-changer for Lewis, turning 21st in quali to 4th on Sunday (and most importantly, with Nico turning pole into 5th....)

With a bit of luck I'll be at Wings & Wheels, so it'll be difficult to keep away from the results until we get home


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Re: Belgium GP [Re: bezzer] #1504196
22/08/2014 11:08
22/08/2014 11:08
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Posts: 21,071
Chertsey in the Thames
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I'm interested in how McLaren will go and have they got a sponsor yet! I can see them heading into the wilderness for a few years just like Williams did after Villeneve won. I hope not, it's my very local team.

Re: Belgium GP [Re: bezzer] #1504202
22/08/2014 11:28
22/08/2014 11:28
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Nobody mentioning Ferrari (or specifically, Alonso), but he seems to be in superb form and - in first practice, anyway - the only person able to get within an Ardennois mile of the Mercs...

Re: Belgium GP [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1504209
22/08/2014 12:17
22/08/2014 12:17
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Originally Posted By: Jim_Clennell
Nobody mentioning Ferrari (or specifically, Alonso), but he seems to be in superb form and - in first practice, anyway - the only person able to get within an Ardennois mile of the Mercs...


Have Ferrari come to Spa with any upgrades?

generally, Alonso does well because he can drive around the car's shortcomings. However, at a power circuit, it will be far less easy to make up any defecit, as there's less driver involvement. On this basis, I'd expect to see Kimi closer to Fernando in quali than he's been so far this year


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Re: Belgium GP [Re: Nigel] #1504229
22/08/2014 13:43
22/08/2014 13:43
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Originally Posted By: Nigel
Originally Posted By: Jim_Clennell
Nobody mentioning Ferrari (or specifically, Alonso), but he seems to be in superb form and - in first practice, anyway - the only person able to get within an Ardennois mile of the Mercs...


Have Ferrari come to Spa with any upgrades?

generally, Alonso does well because he can drive around the car's shortcomings. However, at a power circuit, it will be far less easy to make up any defecit, as there's less driver involvement. On this basis, I'd expect to see Kimi closer to Fernando in quali than he's been so far this year

There was an interesting sound bite said about Ferrari (I wasn't paying too much attention, since I'm WFH and meant to be documenting! laugh ) but the crux of it was that Ferrari knew that they were going to be down on power with the engine and that they were relying on aerodynamics to make up the shortfall of the engine power.


Originally Posted by Jonny - After being taken out at Spa
Your car is Usain Bolt with wellies
Re: Belgium GP [Re: bezzer] #1504235
22/08/2014 14:32
22/08/2014 14:32
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 21,522
Aldershot
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FP2 on BBC 2 now, currently in a second red flag period of the session.


16VT and X1/9 1500

We must all do our part for the planet.
I unplugged a row of electric cars that nobody was using.
Re: Belgium GP [Re: PeteP] #1504236
22/08/2014 14:35
22/08/2014 14:35
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,895
2011 and 2015 FCCUK F1 Champ.
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bezzer Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: PeteP
FP2 on BBC 2 now, currently in a second red flag period of the session.


Maldonado giving his Engineers a late night again laugh



......My Boy...... (PB #7)
Re: Belgium GP [Re: bezzer] #1504464
24/08/2014 16:52
24/08/2014 16:52
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Decent race. I'll bet Hamilton will be understandably cross, but it could so easily have been the other way around.
Turns out Red Bull did have a plan - use a school ruler as a rear wing!

Ricciardo and Bottas are definitely the real deal and it looks like they will be the future drivers to beat.

Rumours of Alonso meeting RBR say more about his intentions than his destination.

Re: Belgium GP [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1504472
24/08/2014 17:38
24/08/2014 17:38
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,072
South Cambs
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The accident did spoil the race but we should be pleased that it didn't turn into a one horse race.

For the last few years F1 fans have had to endure one fast driver dominating almost everything. We should be happy that Mercedes do at least have two drivers in their car who, despite being quite different are both hugely capable of winning races.

It is such a shame that the current Australian star didn't replace Webber a few years ago and show everyone how skilled Mr Vettel really is.


Gone Audi mad!
Re: Belgium GP [Re: bezzer] #1504491
24/08/2014 20:21
24/08/2014 20:21
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Possibly Bob, but I think it's horses for courses; Vettel mastered the particular skills for the previous generation Red Bull way better than Webber. Didn't make him any better in general or Webber any worse. Might have been the same for Ricciardo.

Re: Belgium GP [Re: bezzer] #1504492
24/08/2014 20:23
24/08/2014 20:23
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Posts: 820
Trowbridge,Wiltshire
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Re: Belgium GP [Re: bezzer] #1504495
24/08/2014 20:40
24/08/2014 20:40
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What a bizarre admission! I'm pretty sure he could have got away with it, so I can only assume he is trying to play mind games with Hamilton. Clearly Mercedes management are (publicly at least) siding with Hamilton, but he obviously feels as though the German gets better treatment. Perhaps that is what Rosberg was relying on or trying to prove because otherwise it just makes no sense.

Unless, of course, he is simply an a-hole...

Re: Belgium GP [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1504503
24/08/2014 22:35
24/08/2014 22:35
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 6,144
Southampton, Hants
Roadking Offline
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Not sure Rosberg will have impressed Lauda or Wolff. Neither looked too happy when talking about him.

Starting to look like Rosberg is the one with the mental attitude issues.

Last edited by Roadking; 24/08/2014 23:53.

"RK's way seems the most sensible to me". ali_hire 16 Dec 2010
Re: Belgium GP [Re: bezzer] #1504512
25/08/2014 00:38
25/08/2014 00:38

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Rosberg finally show his true colour,(briefly in Monaco).

Re: Belgium GP [Re: bezzer] #1504525
25/08/2014 07:53
25/08/2014 07:53
Joined: Mar 2006
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Cambridge & Cotswolds
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MeanRedSpider Offline
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Mercedes (the car company) won't be happy about the weekend: didn't win, knocked a driver out by teammate, the remaining driver booed on the podium, driver admits causing the crash - hardly a PR coup.

Re: Belgium GP [Re: bezzer] #1504526
25/08/2014 08:21
25/08/2014 08:21
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Inevitably, there appears to be a discrepancy between Hamilton's statement and Toto Wolff's explanation. According to the latter, what Rosberg allegedly said was that he knew where Hamilton was and chose not to back off, knowing that if Hamilton moved wider there would be a collision and emphatically not that he deliberately drove into him. This seems far more likely and more what I remember seeing. However, the damage is done both literally and in PR terms.
I can't see any punishment arising, but it will be interesting to see how the season pans out not to mention Mercedes driver choice for next year. I suggest that Alonso will be dropping a copy of his CV in Niki Lauda's pigeonhole...

Re: Belgium GP [Re: bezzer] #1504539
25/08/2014 11:09
25/08/2014 11:09
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Surely there's a chance that the FIA will see it as "causing a collision" - in this case, the "causing" was by virtue of the fact that Nico said he could have chosen to avoid Lewis' car, but chose not to in order to "make a point" - Lewis had the line and didn't deviate from it to squeeze Nico out (like he'd done in Hungary)


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Re: Belgium GP [Re: bezzer] #1504545
25/08/2014 11:56
25/08/2014 11:56
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It's possible, but I would doubt the FIA would opt for confrontation in this (or any other) case.

It's definitely looking like there will be a change in the Ferrari driver line up for next year, or so Joe Saward is hinting. I can definitely see Alonso heading for the exit of his own accord and possibly Raikkonnen might not want to stay or may be asked to move along.
Time for Jules Bianchi to step up, alongside... Vettel, Rosberg or Hamilton?

Re: Belgium GP [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1504559
25/08/2014 13:38
25/08/2014 13:38

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I saw 'the move' as a clumsy attempt by Rosberg to be aggressive but as it was effectively out of character it had the expected (if you could've known he was going to try it advance) result.

I was dreading Hamilton's post-race interview but he managed to do ok for once, apart from the implication that Rosberg is getting better/more reliable equipment.

It depresses me though that there is an underlying implication that if Rosberg were to go up to Hamilton and simply apologise for making a poor move he would be seen as weak, etc.
Sports psychology has a lot to answer for.

Re: Belgium GP [Re: bezzer] #1504562
25/08/2014 13:48
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I agree Tim. I often wonder whether people brought up in a top sporting environment have a chance to mature outside that unreal situation. Hamilton seems little more than a child in his non-sporting pronouncements, which is hardly surprising. Other drivers are often not much better (with a few exceptions like Button) and it is this that makes me question the wisdom of bringing in a 16-year-old. But most of the other drivers seem ok about it.

Re: Belgium GP [Re: bezzer] #1504564
25/08/2014 13:49
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The final input to Rosberg's steering before the impact was a turn right. This could be seen as a correction for the corner or an input designed to ensure contact. Whichever, without it, Rosberg probably wouldn't have hit Hamilton.

Whichever, it's certainly added more spice to the season.

Re: Belgium GP [Re: bezzer] #1504567
25/08/2014 14:30
25/08/2014 14:30
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Great to see Williams mixing it back with the big boys and not just because of a safety cars or other false premises.

Controversial I know, but I think Rosberg in the scheme of things, had to do something to show Hamilton, he would stand up to him in a wheel to wheel fight and that is what he has done?
Yes it was a mistake and possibly even a "semi" deliberate, calculated mistake. BUT, had it been the other way around, what would have been the view then?
Dare I say it, motor racing stopped being "sporting" many years ago?
Hamilton drives more aggressively than Nico and throughout their careers, has probably bullied Nico into submission numerous times?
However, Nico has stepped up as a more competitive animal and the whole incident has put down a marker to Hamilton that the gloves really are off? Hamilton cannot afford to crash with Nico for the rest of the season. The same is not true the other way around,thus reinforcing the advantage to Rosberg. I don't suppose Michael Schumacher would have had any qualms about the whole incident?
I hope that Hamilton can turn things around. If he does, the season will have a tremendous climax and he will deserve huge accolades.


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Re: Belgium GP [Re: bezzer] #1504569
25/08/2014 14:44
25/08/2014 14:44
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Jim_Clennell Offline
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It must be about mind games; I'm just a bit surprised that Rosberg was so clumsy about a) the incident itself and b) his revelation of his behaviour. If he is clever enough to out-psyche Hamilton (and frankly, I think Roscoe might have the upper hand there) then surely he is clever enough to do it with more subtlety.
It's a good point that it reminds Hamilton that he can't afford to return the favour though, I hadn't thought of that.
I think the championship is far from over (cue Vettel-esque run of Rosberg domination), but this incident may force Mercedes' hand to introduce a few rules. Can't see them being obeyed, mind you.

Re: Belgium GP [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1504584
25/08/2014 15:39
25/08/2014 15:39
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Roadking Offline
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I'm not so sure about Rosberg having the edge. He appears to know he's not perceived as being as good as Hamilton wheel to wheel. Causing a collision doesn't appear to have altered that.

I don't expect his reception by the fans at the next GP will have been improved by his admission. Even Schuey didn't appear to like being booed.

I also think he may find 50/50 decisions going against him with the stewards in the future.


"RK's way seems the most sensible to me". ali_hire 16 Dec 2010
Re: Belgium GP [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1504587
25/08/2014 15:59
25/08/2014 15:59

T
TimR
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T



Originally Posted By: Jim_Clennell
.....I'm just a bit surprised that Rosberg was so clumsy about a) the incident itself.....


I see it as being similar to the footballing situation where a striker goes in for a tackle and upends someone and the commentator calls it a typical striker's challenge, i.e. it's not their natural game and as a result they're rubbish at it.

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