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Re: Dodgy household wiring problem. Ideas? [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1464088
17/12/2013 15:23
17/12/2013 15:23
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ation
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As above, you need to kick them into touch. You've a problem that's potentially dangerous. It smells suspiciously of they can't/won't pay for a proper sparky to come out.

Did you ever try 'listening' for this interference/arcing they mention?

Re: Dodgy household wiring problem. Ideas? [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1464089
17/12/2013 15:33
17/12/2013 15:33
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Jim_Clennell Offline OP
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The TV and amp are plugged into a multi-socket, but it's not a surge-protected one. It's also a different socket from the Virgin box and a different one again from the server.

It may be that there is a problem with another bit of our electrical equipment, but as I'm not an electrician, all I can report is symptoms. I need someone qualified to come out and actually find out!

I'll email the agent accordingly.

Thanks for your help, guys.

Re: Dodgy household wiring problem. Ideas? [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1464090
17/12/2013 15:35
17/12/2013 15:35
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,244
Watford, Herts.
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Do you even have a RCD? If so it could be that the the switch is creating a very short duration inbalance which is not long enough to properly trip the RCD but enough for it to temp cut power.

As wink says the rest of that guff is pointless supposition base of 3rd party info.

Re: Dodgy household wiring problem. Ideas? [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1464093
17/12/2013 15:59
17/12/2013 15:59
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,327
Merthyr tydfil
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Just explain to the spark who turns up that you want him to put a scope on the socket in question to see if there is any noise or disturbance when the light switch is turned on.
Its all very well having theories about the problem, however, in my experience nothing is a substitute for actually taking measurements and testing properly.
With the scope connected you will be able to see how the supply changes when you eliminate things like your onkyo.
If he doesn't have a scope, ask him to find an engineer who does.
Hope this helps.



Re: Dodgy household wiring problem. Ideas? [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1464095
17/12/2013 16:16
17/12/2013 16:16
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Here is my reply:

"As suggested by your electrician, I've tried taking all the bulbs out of the lights in the dining room, then replacing them with filament bulbs. I've also had the Virgin box replaced (the new one installed and checked by the Virgin engineer, who says it is working fine). Neither has cured the problem.

In fact, as I reported, the socket did trip the RCD when I plugged the iron in. Again, it could be the iron as well.

Of course it is possible that it is our equipment that is at fault, but I've replaced all the bits that the electrician suggested and the fault is still there. I've spoken to friends that are NICEIC, ELECSA or NAPIT registered electricians and they all say that there could be a dangerous problem. There might not be, but there could be.

I'm not an electrician, but something isn't right with the electrics, so what am I supposed to do? Every time I switch the light on or off or draw power from the socket, the TV cuts off then comes on again and it shouldn't do that.

I feel as though your electrical contractors are dismissing the problem and for some reason are reluctant to test the wiring.

I'm really not trying to be difficult, but would you be happy living in a house with your family where every night before going to bed, you switch off the light and it makes you wonder if it's safe? It does worry me and I don't think that's fair or right.

I think it would be worthwhile carrying out a little more in-depth research, even if all it uncovers is that all our electrical equipment is faulty and the wiring in the house is fine. At least I could replace it and know the problem would be solved
."

Re: Dodgy household wiring problem. Ideas? [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1464104
17/12/2013 17:46
17/12/2013 17:46
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Jim, I salute your softly softly approach, but frankly the quote from them you posted at 1345 is gobbledegook.

IMHO you are best going in person if possible and raising hell even if it's not in your nature as this could be a safety issue. You are paying for conditions which you're not getting furthermore. There's probably a head office or better, an organisation which monitors this sort of stuff - is there such a thing as CAB left?

I don't know how old your kids are but from personal experience when they're still young and under the eagle eye of a health visitor they are the ones with clout and will get things done immediately.

You have more than demonstrated your reasonableness but it sounds like they aren't taking it seriously.

Even if it doesn't sit well with you, a few well-directed um, "threats" now are what's needed to kick-ass!

Edit: It doesn't sound like you have nearly enough current being drawn from your sockets to cause the problem. Even if it was a spur, not part of a ring main, you'd need to have an iron and other heavy duty appliances running concurrently to cause a cable or socket to overheat and/or cause instability.

Last edited by Edinburgh; 17/12/2013 17:49.

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Re: Dodgy household wiring problem. Ideas? [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1464107
17/12/2013 17:55
17/12/2013 17:55

K
KBT
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KBT
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K



I had a problem with my electrics. When the ring main was under load the RCD would trip. I traced the fault to one of the plug sockets. Inside there was a cobweb.

Re: Dodgy household wiring problem. Ideas? [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1464109
17/12/2013 17:58
17/12/2013 17:58
Joined: Dec 2005
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Jim_Clennell Offline OP
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Thanks Edinburgh. The above is my final "do I have to spell out environmental health?" email. Compared with our last house, this is chicken feed. MrsC and I are slowly wheeling the cannon into place. If we don't get a satisfactory answer it's all going to get much nastier. But I prefer to allow people the chance to let their better side intervene...

Re: Dodgy household wiring problem. Ideas? [Re: ] #1464140
17/12/2013 19:29
17/12/2013 19:29
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Originally Posted By: KBT
I had a problem with my electrics. When the ring main was under load the RCD would trip. I traced the fault to one of the plug sockets. Inside there was a cobweb.


See, we're just hopeless at housework.


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Re: Dodgy household wiring problem. Ideas? [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1464141
17/12/2013 19:30
17/12/2013 19:30
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Originally Posted By: Jim_Clennell
Thanks Edinburgh. The above is my final "do I have to spell out environmental health?" email. Compared with our last house, this is chicken feed. MrsC and I are slowly wheeling the cannon into place. If we don't get a satisfactory answer it's all going to get much nastier. But I prefer to allow people the chance to let their better side intervene...


Let us know when the sparks begin to fly..


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Re: Dodgy household wiring problem. Ideas? [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1464148
17/12/2013 21:22
17/12/2013 21:22
Joined: Jun 2006
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Watford, Herts.
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Not sure about environmental health. I think the key regs are Electrical Equipment (Safety) Regulations 1994 and the The Consumer Protection Act 1987.

Failure to comply can lead to;
A fine of £5,000 per item not complying
Six month’s imprisonment
Possible manslaughter charges in the even of deaths
Civil damages
Property insurance may be invalidated

The above is enforced by the Health & Safety Executive.

Re: Dodgy household wiring problem. Ideas? [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1464163
17/12/2013 22:44
17/12/2013 22:44
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 21,071
Chertsey in the Thames
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Our electrics were do bad that when the cooker, dishwasher and washing machine were ask on the old bakolite would burn and our smelled of rancid fish.....there it's a joke there somewhere I'm sure.

Re: Dodgy household wiring problem. Ideas? [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1464191
18/12/2013 07:51
18/12/2013 07:51
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,569
Berlin
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My oven has taken to going into thermal shutdown at anything over 200 degrees. Something of an annoyance since it's marked to 250 and I want to bake at 220...


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Re: Dodgy household wiring problem. Ideas? [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1464192
18/12/2013 08:18
18/12/2013 08:18
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 310
n.ireland
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n.ireland
What I would do first is (with a safe screwdriver - one that shows live wires on contact) 

just noticed the above statement in the thread. please dont use these light up screwdrivers. isolate main board fully before removing faceplates etc, and work with multimeter.


Re: Dodgy household wiring problem. Ideas? [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1464197
18/12/2013 09:26
18/12/2013 09:26
Joined: Dec 2005
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Jim_Clennell Offline OP
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I've no intention of getting involved with any tools at all. Having laid this at the agency's door, the last thing I want to do is to jeapordise the outcome by doing something that invalidates the terms of the tenancy...

I'm awaiting the agency's response. If I have nothing by lunchtime, I'll escalate it to "indignant and disappointed".

Re: Dodgy household wiring problem. Ideas? [Re: barnacle] #1464209
18/12/2013 11:05
18/12/2013 11:05
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 21,071
Chertsey in the Thames
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Originally Posted By: barnacle
My oven has taken to going into thermal shutdown at anything over 200 degrees. Something of an annoyance since it's marked to 250 and I want to bake at 220...


Is it a Smeg per chance?

Re: Dodgy household wiring problem. Ideas? [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1464223
18/12/2013 12:41
18/12/2013 12:41
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,569
Berlin
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No. Can't recall the make unless I get the manual out of the drawer. I probably just need to replace the safety 'stat but I'm not sure I can be bothered...


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Re: Dodgy household wiring problem. Ideas? [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1464227
18/12/2013 13:07
18/12/2013 13:07
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Jim_Clennell Offline OP
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Agent called. Electrician that wrote the bit I quoted above is coming to the house today. Sadly, I won't be there, but hopefully MrsC's teeth are nice and sharp today. Apparently a full safety check was carried out when the owners put the house up for rent in 2012. Which is all very well, but I could point out at least 4 or 5 minor faults, so let's hope the guy actually looks...

Re: Dodgy household wiring problem. Ideas? [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1464376
19/12/2013 00:12
19/12/2013 00:12

P
Paul_Murf
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Could well be a loose neutral connection inside the db.
I've seen a few neutral faults manifest themselves in weird ways.

Re: Dodgy household wiring problem. Ideas? [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1464399
19/12/2013 10:25
19/12/2013 10:25
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Jim_Clennell Offline OP
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Well, the electrician (a proper one) plus two assistants spent about 3 hours at our house yesterday and they have found out a number of things...

Firstly, the fused switch next to the sockets in the dining room is connected not only to the sockets, but also - the lights...! Apparently, this is common practice in conservatories, which the dining room sort-of is (glass roof between 2 walls. The sockets in the dining room are on the opposite side of the same wall as the sockets powering the TV, etc, less than 3ft apart.

This explains why the light switch is able to have an effect on the sockets, though he changed the switch just in case.

It seems that Virgin Cable TV boxes (produced by Samsung) have a reputation for being appallingly cheaply and badly made. I can fully endorse this view, as we have had 4 boxes since we first took Virgin cable in 2011. One issue is that to save money, they do not fit a supressor, rendering the box susceptible to interference. I've no idea if this is true, but it could be. The electrician is going to recommend the fitment of a supressor to the socket.
He also said that we have quite a lot of appliances connected to not many sockets. This is true, but several are not switched on and most do not draw much current. To be exact, in one pair of sockets we have a 4-socket multi bar with the TV (a 32" LED), DVD, VCR and A/V receiver in one. DVD and VCR rarely on. The other socket of the pair has the Virgin box, the Broadband router and a mains-based broadband extender. In 2 other sockets further away are the NAS and the subwoofer (1 socket each). We could look at moving things, but the TV based equipment AND the Broadband-related stuff really need to be within easy reach of the BB cable entry point.

The low energy bulbs were mentioned again. Apparently, the components in cheap bulbs (capacitors?) can malfunction and cause a power drain/interference. Especially with the connection to the sockets.

Anyway, long story short, it's not fixed, but at least we feel the electrician looked long and hard and actually did a proper job. He is going to try and fit a supressor which should help (though he stressed it wasn't a certainty). He reassured us that it is not a dangerous situation, with no shorting going on.

We will see if the supressor cures it, if not, might have to plug the Virgin box in elsewhere and run an extension.

Re: Dodgy household wiring problem. Ideas? [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1464464
19/12/2013 17:09
19/12/2013 17:09
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Ok, as an "extension" the dining room has been supplied by power tapped off the socket circuit for minimum hassle, and fused just in case. For convenience it supplies the lighting also. It explains the interaction at least!

The nuisance features hopefully can be sorted - it's just a shame that one apparently labour-saving operation has spawned several time-consuming ones rolleyes

Glad it's being progressed at last smile


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Re: Dodgy household wiring problem. Ideas? [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1464468
19/12/2013 17:17
19/12/2013 17:17
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Jim_Clennell Offline OP
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It's one of those endless little niggles that doesn't really affect your quality of life, it's just another PITA.

As is, for instance, the changing of a punctured inner tube on my 12-year-old stepson's bike this evening. I was making pocket money stripping down* and rebuilding bikes when I was 12. He knows lots about the difference between Decepticons and Transformers, but nowt about spanners. Tsk! Kids today, etc...

*No sniggering at the back. You know what I mean.

Re: Dodgy household wiring problem. Ideas? [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1464471
19/12/2013 17:33
19/12/2013 17:33
Joined: Mar 2007
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Ironic that the old trades of plumbers and sparks have never been so well off.

Wonder if any of them can bat chinny

As future grandparents Jim (don't want to cause premature greying) we will be held as people of stature, nay, wizards even who can help them out when the hale bloomin' www. gets eaten by a genetically modified rat.


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