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Another Gearbox Thread (Weakness)
#1455386
26/10/2013 19:55
26/10/2013 19:55
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,252 Windsor/ Reading
knight7660
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Hi all i know its been talked about over and over again but this is one of the next things on my list to do. what are the weaknesses with the 6 speed and the 5 speed gearboxes????? I know the standard diff is weak and we can now solve that with the quafe or the gripper diff (others probably but these to are tried and tested) so what else is the problem with them, are the casings weak, or is it the gears itself or is it a combination of both plus over heating. any information would be great and may lead to some sort of solution
Last edited by knight7660; 26/10/2013 19:56.
LE53 (452BHp & 389ftlb's with Quaife) Wine red VIS FOOFY Audi RS4 B7
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Re: Another Gearbox Thread (Weakness)
[Re: knight7660]
#1455421
27/10/2013 06:48
27/10/2013 06:48
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Davie
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Davie
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I'd like to know this aswell!
I remember back in the good old days the big power RS Turbo boys use to use CTS who would shot peen the gears for more strength.
I may be wrong but can't early five speeds have a strengthening cradle fitted to reduce flex?
Any one?
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Re: Another Gearbox Thread (Weakness)
[Re: knight7660]
#1455461
27/10/2013 10:50
27/10/2013 10:50
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johnnybravoturbo
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johnnybravoturbo
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Early ones strip gears so no use over 300bhp. Later type and 6 speeds have no issues with diff upgrade if installed correctly.
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Re: Another Gearbox Thread (Weakness)
[Re: ]
#1455486
27/10/2013 12:04
27/10/2013 12:04
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,252 Windsor/ Reading
knight7660
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Posts: 2,252
Windsor/ Reading
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I'd like to know this aswell!
I remember back in the good old days the big power RS Turbo boys use to use CTS who would shot peen the gears for more strength.
I may be wrong but can't early five speeds have a strengthening cradle fitted to reduce flex?
Any one? is there strengthing plates for the later / 6 speed casings
LE53 (452BHp & 389ftlb's with Quaife) Wine red VIS FOOFY Audi RS4 B7
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Re: Another Gearbox Thread (Weakness)
[Re: ]
#1455488
27/10/2013 12:06
27/10/2013 12:06
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Davie
Unregistered
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Davie
Unregistered
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Early ones strip gears so no use over 300bhp. Later type and 6 speeds have no issues with diff upgrade if installed correctly. What's a rough ballpark of the costs involved in fitting an upgraded diff John?
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Re: Another Gearbox Thread (Weakness)
[Re: knight7660]
#1455492
27/10/2013 12:34
27/10/2013 12:34
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,252 Windsor/ Reading
knight7660
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i dont want to just fit a diff because on the later boxes its not fully test yet ie has had a hammering for a few years on track with out fail
LE53 (452BHp & 389ftlb's with Quaife) Wine red VIS FOOFY Audi RS4 B7
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Re: Another Gearbox Thread (Weakness)
[Re: ]
#1455505
27/10/2013 13:43
27/10/2013 13:43
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 286 Germany
Stichl
Making a profit
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Making a profit
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 286
Germany
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Early ones strip gears so no use over 300bhp. Later type and 6 speeds have no issues with diff upgrade if installed correctly. ÄÄÄÄhhh...300HP with an Integrale style gearbox, only????! I used such a gearbox in a Coupe for ~10tkm with 565HP, without failure and a 4x4 (much more stress for gear box and clutch than fwd, only). Only problem is the 3rd gear at older Integrales... this gear was insufficiently welded and some of them broke at high load. The newer Fiat Coupe Integrale style gear boxes don't suffer from this problem - Integrale user even upgrade their gear boxes with 3rd gear from Fiat Coupe... Big advantage of the old style gear boxes: you get 3 different strenghtening plates and upgrading gears... Two friends of mine have Integrales with >>500HP and >>650NM... no problems with these mods... Nex year my coupe will be back on road with this gear box and 4x4 with >650HP... Then I can tell you, if it will "survive"... Juergen
Last edited by Stichl; 27/10/2013 16:27.
20VT coupegrale 4x4
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Re: Another Gearbox Thread (Weakness)
[Re: Stichl]
#1455515
27/10/2013 15:19
27/10/2013 15:19
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,252 Windsor/ Reading
knight7660
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Windsor/ Reading
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Early ones strip gears so no use over 300bhp. Later type and 6 speeds have no issues with diff upgrade if installed correctly. ÄÄÄÄhhh...300HP with an Integrale style gearbox, only????! I used such a gearbox in a Coupe for ~10tkm with 565HP, without failure and a 4x4 (much more stress for gear box and clutch than fwd, only). Only problem is the 3rd gear at older Integrales... this gear was insufficiently welded and some of them broke at high load. The newer Fiat Coupe Integrale style gear boxes don't suffer from this problem - Integrale user even upgrade their gear boxes with 3rd gear from Fiat Coupe... Big advantage of the old style gear boxes: you get 3 different streghening plates and upgrading gears... Two friends of mine have Integrales with >>500HP and >>650NM... no problems with these mods... Nex year my coupe will be back on road with this gear box and 4x4 with >650HP... Then I can tell you, if it will "survive"... Juergen Once again thanks for the info I have read a few different car threads saying about 3rd gear problems so it's not just fiat and lancia with minor issues. What uprated bearings you using and also is anyone using gearbox oil coolers etc
LE53 (452BHp & 389ftlb's with Quaife) Wine red VIS FOOFY Audi RS4 B7
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Re: Another Gearbox Thread (Weakness)
[Re: knight7660]
#1455590
27/10/2013 22:51
27/10/2013 22:51
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,252 Windsor/ Reading
knight7660
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also where can i get the strengthening plates from for a 6 speed. i can get them made but its faster if i can find the companies that already make them
LE53 (452BHp & 389ftlb's with Quaife) Wine red VIS FOOFY Audi RS4 B7
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Re: Another Gearbox Thread (Weakness)
[Re: knight7660]
#1465078
23/12/2013 15:24
23/12/2013 15:24
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,252 Windsor/ Reading
knight7660
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Right update plates are ordered along with some other special bits and treatment
What are the differences between the late 5 speed case and the 6? Also the difference between the early and the others
On top of this I've been told to try using the Lancia box but I thought the early type was the same?
Once the box is back it will be tested as much as I can with the free time which will include Santa pod and a road trip to the ring, if it survives this il pass on as much info and contacts as I can for people that don't want to be scared of doing a good track day with out calling the RAC at the end off it.
Any info would be great
LE53 (452BHp & 389ftlb's with Quaife) Wine red VIS FOOFY Audi RS4 B7
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Re: Another Gearbox Thread (Weakness)
[Re: knight7660]
#1465079
23/12/2013 15:31
23/12/2013 15:31
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,295 Sandhurst
Begbie
Ex El Presidente
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Ex El Presidente
I AM a Coop
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Posts: 12,295
Sandhurst
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On top of this I've been told to try using the Lancia box but I thought the early type was the same? If you mean an integrale box, then yes, it is the same as the early type, but the gear linkages are different, they also suffer with 3rd gear breaking. The current upgrade they do is to use 3rd gear from the coupe box, as they were made differently.
Your car is Usain Bolt with wellies
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Re: Another Gearbox Thread (Weakness)
[Re: knight7660]
#1465082
23/12/2013 15:50
23/12/2013 15:50
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,252 Windsor/ Reading
knight7660
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Yes I was on about the integrate box and I thought I remember rightly they were the same as the early ones just need to find out what the difference is between the other to now.
Somebody mentioned about 3 gear and changing over but I'm trying to build the 6 speed into a much stronger box without spending 10k on a special box
I see the alfas have a straight cut gear kit for the gtv's so this is another option if the 6 speed gear kit after treatment can't take it
Last edited by knight7660; 23/12/2013 15:52.
LE53 (452BHp & 389ftlb's with Quaife) Wine red VIS FOOFY Audi RS4 B7
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