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Police commissioners' election
#1391794
15/11/2012 09:27
15/11/2012 09:27
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,568 Berlin
barnacle
OP
Club Member 18 - ex-Minister without Portfolio
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OP
Club Member 18 - ex-Minister without Portfolio
Forum Demigod
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,568
Berlin
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For the first time in my life I will not be voting in an election... this is a hard call, but: a) I'm being asked to vote for an independent police commissioner for which the need is neither clear nor well-justified. b) If I have to have such a thing, I would like it to be actually independent, and not affiliated to an existing political party. c) In my area, I have received exactly no communication from any of the candidates beyond a brief and anodyne few lines on the government website. It's hard to believe that any of them care for anything more than simply being elected. d) http://www.policeelections.com/candidates/hertfordshire/ reveals that the possible culprits are all associated with mainstream political parties, and can therefore be expected to push the party line rather than anything I might wish to propose. (It also reveals that the one I like least has had the most competently produced 'ID-card' style photo...) e) Truly independent candidates have been dropping like flies, largely due to the costs of attempting to talk to constituencies of over a million people, leaving only political candidates with an existing machinery of volunteers. Additionally, the deposit required to stand is ten times that of a local or general election; another barrier to the non-politically-connected. In spite various (radio) interviews in which politically attached candidates have attempted to rationalise their affiliation and their independence, none have been in the slightest way convincing; it can be therefore expected that the commissioners will be largely political in nature. So, for these reasons - and because there is no 'none of the above' box to tick, I shall protest in the only way available to me by voting for none of them.
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Re: Police commissioners' election
[Re: barnacle]
#1391798
15/11/2012 09:34
15/11/2012 09:34
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,546 Northumberland
AndrewR
I AM a Coop
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I AM a Coop
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,546
Northumberland
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Heh, while your link works if I try to view anything else on that site I get a 508 error (resource limit reached). Obviously they weren't expecting two people to try to view it on the same day.
I do like the little TV ad that's been run to try to persuade us to vote. It shows yobbos being yobbos, basically - I think it should end with the slogan, "Vote for Robocop".
Dear monos, a secret truth.
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Re: Police commissioners' election
[Re: barnacle]
#1391810
15/11/2012 10:02
15/11/2012 10:02
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 6,568 Northampton England
Sedicivalvole
Club member 2092
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Club member 2092
Forum is my life
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 6,568
Northampton England
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Neil your post sums up pretty much my issues with this farce.
Independent... Party affiliated commissioners. Ridiculous.
I have had absolutely no information from a single, not one candidate I have had to find out my own information.
I am voting for the Northampton member who is not eligible to sit. if he is elected a re-election will need to take place in a few months so I am trying for that.
As usual this whole thing is a farce. But finally these ***** who sit in what was once an extremely powerful and almost anonymous cushy position are being bought to light. What a great job.
Nobody knows you do it, you can get paid loads and wield power with no responsibility.
Vinci Grey LE Alfa 147 GTA 3.2 V6 BMW E92 M3 4.0 V8 Fiat Tipo Sedicivalvole 2.0 16v ABS
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Re: Police commissioners' election
[Re: barnacle]
#1391827
15/11/2012 10:51
15/11/2012 10:51
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TbirdX
Unregistered
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TbirdX
Unregistered
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I have seen a call, for those who pass on voting for the reasons you describe, to go and vote but intentionally spoil thier ballot paper. This is, supposedly, to register discontent, either with the process or the candidates.
In my area, I don't even know who is standing, have had no info from, or on, any of the candidates, thier politics or what they are standing for.
Bit of a farce in my opinion. That said, I'd have thought it's an excellent opportunity for the criminal element to get elected to the postion.
Last edited by TbirdX; 15/11/2012 10:53.
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Re: Police commissioners' election
[Re: barnacle]
#1391846
15/11/2012 12:08
15/11/2012 12:08
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 21,521 Aldershot
PeteP
Hon Club Member 005, Membership Secretary
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Hon Club Member 005, Membership Secretary
Forum Fossil
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 21,521
Aldershot
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Neil's post sums up my views admirably.
It is also the first time that I have not voted in a UK election when I have been resident here.
I too thouht of spoiling my ballot paper, instead I decided to contribute to a very low turn out by destroying my postal ballot papers.
16VT and X1/9 1500
We must all do our part for the planet. I unplugged a row of electric cars that nobody was using.
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Re: Police commissioners' election
[Re: barnacle]
#1391850
15/11/2012 12:15
15/11/2012 12:15
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Nello
Unregistered
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Nello
Unregistered
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Re: Police commissioners' election
[Re: PeteP]
#1391851
15/11/2012 12:16
15/11/2012 12:16
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tim42
Unregistered
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tim42
Unregistered
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No idea even if there is an election down here in Kent... If so, the candidates would be Kray, Kray, Corleone, Vader and Hamza
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Re: Police commissioners' election
[Re: barnacle]
#1391856
15/11/2012 12:24
15/11/2012 12:24
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 6,731 Surrey
Emjay
Forum is my life
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Forum is my life
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 6,731
Surrey
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I'm fortunate, in having two independents - one of whom is against establishing PCCs.
Against them, for sheer comedy value is Mr Shatwell. Wonder why he didn't go in for a teaching career?
Does our law condemn a man without first hearing him to find out what he has been doing? (John 7:51)
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Re: Police commissioners' election
[Re: Emjay]
#1391868
15/11/2012 12:52
15/11/2012 12:52
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 6,144 Southampton, Hants
Roadking
Club member 1809
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Club member 1809
Forum is my life
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 6,144
Southampton, Hants
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Myself and Ms RK discussed exactly Neil's points last night, and won't be voting either. How a Police Force can become a political football I don't know. I assume Dave has been listening to Clegg again ? If so he really should stop doing that. No-one else does.
"RK's way seems the most sensible to me". ali_hire 16 Dec 2010
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Re: Police commissioners' election
[Re: barnacle]
#1391870
15/11/2012 13:05
15/11/2012 13:05
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 21,521 Aldershot
PeteP
Hon Club Member 005, Membership Secretary
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Hon Club Member 005, Membership Secretary
Forum Fossil
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 21,521
Aldershot
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Roadking, in fact it is the other way round, Clegg got lumbered with one of Cameron's policies.
Here in Hampshire there was a lot of discussion in the LD party whether to even put up a candidate. Sadly they chose to do so but it was a close call.
Emjay spoke of a Mr Shatwell, at one time I had a Mr Brian Shatwell as my boss, he is/was a very talented engineer.
16VT and X1/9 1500
We must all do our part for the planet. I unplugged a row of electric cars that nobody was using.
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Re: Police commissioners' election
[Re: barnacle]
#1391878
15/11/2012 13:13
15/11/2012 13:13
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,336 Selby
Mansilla
My job on the forum
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My job on the forum
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,336
Selby
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Me too, and the Mrs. I have always voted thusfar. I was tempted to go and just spoil my paper, but have a sneaking suspicion that it would somehow get counted.
I will also be emailing my MP to explain why I have not voted.
1. Think of something witty and urbane 2. Imagine it written here
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Re: Police commissioners' election
[Re: came2dance]
#1391896
15/11/2012 13:56
15/11/2012 13:56
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,462 Ipswich 06/08/2002
Ed
My job on the forum
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My job on the forum
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,462
Ipswich 06/08/2002
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This sums it up for me. If the candidates can't even be bothered, why should anyone else... You may or may not be able to read that actually, as I'm still getting resource limit errors like Andrew was earlier.
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Re: Police commissioners' election
[Re: ]
#1391922
15/11/2012 15:22
15/11/2012 15:22
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,280 West Berks
skinflint
I need some sleep
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I need some sleep
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,280
West Berks
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No idea even if there is an election down here in Kent... If so, the candidates would be Kray, Kray, Corleone, Vader and Hamza Many a true word is spoken in jest... As nobody seems to be voting is there a risk of getting a layer of corrupt scum voted in by a small, affiliated group of people?
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Re: Police commissioners' election
[Re: skinflint]
#1391924
15/11/2012 15:27
15/11/2012 15:27
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 16,603 Corridor of Uncertainty
Jim_Clennell
Forum veteran
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Forum veteran
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 16,603
Corridor of Uncertainty
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As nobody seems to be voting is there a risk of getting a layer of corrupt scum voted in by a small, affiliated group of people? This seems to be the case with general elections, so I can't see why these will be any different.
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Re: Police commissioners' election
[Re: barnacle]
#1391936
15/11/2012 15:59
15/11/2012 15:59
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,336 Selby
Mansilla
My job on the forum
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My job on the forum
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,336
Selby
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Well, fair play to my MP, he bothered to respond. Quickly, too. Inevitably (and at the risk of sounding like the Socialist Workers or something) it is essentially a crock of lick-spittling party political drivel, but I reproduce it for your edification. Dear Mr. Adams.
I have today made the somewhat uncomfortable decision to not vote in an election. This is the first time I have been in a position where I could vote, and have elected not to. I thought it might be useful for me, as one of your constituents, to share my reasoning with you.
1. I am being asked to vote for an independent police commissioner. The need is neither clear nor well-justified. It appears to me to be replacing one bureaucracy of dubious value with another.
2. If I have to have such a thing, I would like it to be independent, as per the title. That means it would not be affiliated to an existing Political Party. There are only 2 candidates in North Yorkshire, both affiliated to Political Parties. I fail to see how they can reconcile their Political funding and memberships with the undertaking of an 'independent' post.
3. I have received just one communication from a candidate (which I found contradictory, and which tended to reinforce my view that the role would be overtly political), and did not receive the explanatory leaflet which has apparently been issued by government.
4. Truly independent candidates have been effectively excluded by the substantial cost of attempting to talk to constituencies of (in some cases) over a million people. The deposit required to stand is substantial, another barrier to the non-politically-connected.
So, for these reasons - and because there is no 'none of the above' box to tick, I have chosen to protest in the only way available. By not voting. It is a sad day. Dear Mr. Mansilla,
Thank you for contacting me about elected police and crime commissioners and why you do not feel inclined to vote today.
Empowering the public is central theme of this Government’s whole police reform programme. The police are a public service and they should serve and respond to local people. This is the reason why I support the introduction of directly elected police and crime commissioners.
The ongoing centralisation of the police witnessed under the previous Government has left the service disconnected from the communities they are there to serve. The approach of the last Government was to intervene more and more in local policing in an attempt to make it more accountable. The police were directed by Whitehall diktat and targets. Nowhere was there a direct democratic check and balance to which Sir Robert Peel referred in 1829 as the bedrock of police activity.
From November this year, police and crime commissioners will bring democratic accountability to the police. They will have the local knowledge and understanding to set their force's policing priorities. They will have the democratic mandate to set the police budget and the council tax precept and they will have the power to hold chief constables to account for the performance of their force.
Please rest assured, however, this Government does not wish to politicise the police force. The Government has been clear that the long held principle of operational independence, where those operating in the office of the chief constable are able to make independent decisions on how to use their legitimate coercive powers on behalf of the state, will continue to remain the cornerstone of the British policing model. The Commissioners will have no control over operational decisions.
So the politicians will keep out of operational matters. How reassuring. :Goes to look for sarcasm smiley:
1. Think of something witty and urbane 2. Imagine it written here
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Re: Police commissioners' election
[Re: Jim_Clennell]
#1391937
15/11/2012 16:05
15/11/2012 16:05
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,546 Northumberland
AndrewR
I AM a Coop
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I AM a Coop
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,546
Northumberland
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Virtually no contact from any of the candidates and no apparent idea of what their policies will be. I think it's deeper than that - there's been no attempt to communicate what these commissioners will actually do. we're being asked to elect people to a mysterious role which will, somehow, put police policy into our hands. As I've said, the adverts encouraging us to vote show rowdy drunks, burglars in action, a bit of street violence which I'm sure are all issues we'd like the police to deal with. Are these new commissioners going to make it happen? Are we voting for who gets to be our local Batman? Or is it more a case of most people would like to see more coppers on the street (and fewer doing paperwork or, say, arresting people for Tweets and Facebook posts)? Hypothetically wouldn't we be better off taking all of the money that we're spending on elections that virtually nobody cares about and giving it to the police to do police stuff with?
Dear monos, a secret truth.
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Re: Police commissioners' election
[Re: Jim_Clennell]
#1391949
15/11/2012 17:02
15/11/2012 17:02
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TimR
Unregistered
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TimR
Unregistered
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And as for the reply to Mansilla's letter (including completely spurious quote from Sir Robert Peel), I'm not really feeling any better informed... Does the MP himself have any idea what the commissionners will do? It's simple. They're going to bring "democratic accountability to the Police ". I've interpreted that as "If there's something, ANYTHING, you don't like about policing in your area I'm the man you should contact first"
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Re: Police commissioners' election
[Re: skinflint]
#1391950
15/11/2012 17:09
15/11/2012 17:09
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tim42
Unregistered
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tim42
Unregistered
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No idea even if there is an election down here in Kent... If so, the candidates would be Kray, Kray, Corleone, Vader and Hamza Many a true word is spoken in jest... As nobody seems to be voting is there a risk of getting a layer of corrupt scum voted in by a small, affiliated group of people? Driving around the Maidstone area today I spotted lots of polling stations open with people queueing round the block to vote (NOT)! In my opinion a waste of time, money and morals. Living in a democracy we should rely on our elected politicians to "police" our ideas of law and order. It ain't perfect, but it is the least bad of our options (quote from Winston Churchill??). If you don't like it vote for someone else or leave (Iran, Jordan, Syria, Chechnya, China, Burma, etc.,)
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Re: Police commissioners' election
[Re: oxfordSteve]
#1391990
15/11/2012 21:00
15/11/2012 21:00
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RobShed
Unregistered
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RobShed
Unregistered
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I voted this morning. Put an 'X' in each of the 3 candidates (who I've never heard of or who have canvassed me) for 1st and 2nd choices. Then created another vote row for 'cyclist friendly' and ticked that single choice box. In a nutshell, jobs for the boys and unfortunately I spoilt my vote. Hopefully more will have done likewise and then they can investigate this spoilt % of a likely poor turnout. Feels like I've accomplished something though ...
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Re: Police commissioners' election
[Re: skinflint]
#1392044
16/11/2012 08:53
16/11/2012 08:53
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RobShed
Unregistered
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RobShed
Unregistered
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Yep, my effort was probably near pointless, however better than doing nowt.
Last edited by RobShed; 16/11/2012 08:53.
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Re: Police commissioners' election
[Re: barnacle]
#1392125
16/11/2012 14:18
16/11/2012 14:18
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,336 Selby
Mansilla
My job on the forum
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My job on the forum
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,336
Selby
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In North Yorkshire the turnout was 14.36%. That really is diabolical. Doubtless apathy will be blamed, or the 'London Meeja'. Perhaps, given the recent run of form, its Newsnight's fault.
I've also read some criticism that people were not expecting the voting to be STV. Perhaps reasonable, given we use First Past the Post at most elections, and De Hondt at Europeans. It was also impossible to have any kind of national campaign to explain this, because in North Yorks and Staffordshire there were only 2 candidates, so we used FPTP.
In other news, a Polling Station in Doncaster apparently had a grand total of five votes, and one in Newport managed none at all. Impressive.
1. Think of something witty and urbane 2. Imagine it written here
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