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Re: invited to a speed awareness course
[Re: jimbob13]
#1304837
10/01/2012 15:36
10/01/2012 15:36
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ikarl
Unregistered
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ikarl
Unregistered
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In all seriousness, why do speed limits seem to be the only law consistently up for debate? To me it's as simple as this: To get not guilty for speeding, you have to prove you were not speeding. I dont see how someone can do that, given there is a copper and a speed gun reading to prove it. You cannot impute or prove the copper is lying, you cannot discredit the speeds gun reading (assuming its has a calibration certificate, which it almost certainly will). You have nothing to disprove the evidence they have, and what they have is all that the law requires to convict you. I can't see any loopholes as it stands that can assist anyone caught exceeding the speed limit (if only a few miles per hour) My point here is that, like many otherwise law abiding citizens, I have just discovered that the law is not just an ass, its a corrupt money making machine, and it has nothing to do with justice. 54% of the population now have points on there licence, when you have a law that incriminates that much of the population, then one can only conclude its the law that is criminal, not the population! That is why I believe speed limits are so up for debate Karl
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Re: invited to a speed awareness course
[Re: ]
#1304839
10/01/2012 15:52
10/01/2012 15:52
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proccy
Unregistered
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proccy
Unregistered
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I can't see any loopholes as it stands that can assist anyone caught exceeding the speed limit (if only a few miles per hour) Karl
Unless you're a Premier league footy player/Manager or otherwise have access to the very top lawyers - they seem to consistently get people off
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Re: invited to a speed awareness course
[Re: ]
#1304840
10/01/2012 16:00
10/01/2012 16:00
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367 Staffordshire
Nigel
Forum veteran
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Forum veteran
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367
Staffordshire
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you cannot discredit the speeds gun reading (assuming its has a calibration certificate, which it almost certainly will) You would be surprised - I had a speeding offence quashed because there was no calibration certificates - apparently, the South Wales plod had "mislaid" the certificates
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Re: invited to a speed awareness course
[Re: adder58]
#1304841
10/01/2012 16:04
10/01/2012 16:04
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ikarl
Unregistered
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ikarl
Unregistered
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but considering how many people are nowadays getting stopped and how 'on the ball' most forces are with calibration certs, I'm hearing of less and less taht are not uncalibrated or with 'lost ' certs
Karl
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Re: invited to a speed awareness course
[Re: ]
#1304845
10/01/2012 16:19
10/01/2012 16:19
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 6,731 Surrey
Emjay
Forum is my life
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Forum is my life
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 6,731
Surrey
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In all seriousness, why do speed limits seem to be the only law consistently up for debate? People will tend to debate the things that they think affect them. If you are only at risk of conviction of certain crimes, those will be the ones on your radar [ahem]. I suspect it is rather less to do with any genuine belief of injustice within society as it is self-interest. If you want to reduce chances of conviction, don't commit the offence. If you commit the offence and are convicted, I don't see you've/I've got much to whine about. If you can show a reasonable doubt, then you have a defence. Is there anyone on this forum (or known to anyone on this forum) convicted of speeding who genuinely wasn't exceeding the speed limit at that time?
Does our law condemn a man without first hearing him to find out what he has been doing? (John 7:51)
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Re: invited to a speed awareness course
[Re: Emjay]
#1304850
10/01/2012 16:40
10/01/2012 16:40
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ikarl
Unregistered
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ikarl
Unregistered
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Is there anyone on this forum (or known to anyone on this forum) convicted of speeding who genuinely wasn't exceeding the speed limit at that time? but therein lies the conundrum....how do you prove you weren't speeding? by the time you notice the Police/Camera/Radar etc and look down at your speedo, the natural reaction would have been to lift off the accelerator meaning that you will have slowed somewhat. when confronted by the Police with evidence of speeding (Policeman with camera) how can you defend against that? Karl
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Re: invited to a speed awareness course
[Re: ]
#1304855
10/01/2012 17:06
10/01/2012 17:06
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,704 Harpenden
sugerbear
Je suis un Coupé
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Je suis un Coupé
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,704
Harpenden
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but therein lies the conundrum....how do you prove you weren't speeding? Karl
As above, in car camera. Then when the officer says you doing 500 leptons, you can show them the evidence. More of a problem if you get caught by a radar/speed camera. But maybe some kind of black box that records your GPS position, speed via the cars ECU would be possible. I wonder if a sat nav could be hacked to log details of your car journey with a GPS/Speed/Direction and time.
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Re: invited to a speed awareness course
[Re: ]
#1304857
10/01/2012 17:11
10/01/2012 17:11
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Neal
Unregistered
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Neal
Unregistered
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by the time you notice the Police/Camera/Radar etc and look down at your speedo, the natural reaction would have been to lift off the accelerator meaning that you will have slowed somewhat.
Which would suggest you were speeding in the first place - i.e. committing the offence you're being accused of. Emjay's point is that if you don't want to get caught speeding, then don't speed. The issue with speeding and speed limit enforcement isn't that people who aren't speeding are getting accused of speeding and unable to prove they weren't - in fact, I've never heard of anyone suggesting that they weren't speeding but that they got "done" anyway, and it was all a big scam. The debate is more around camera enforcement as a blunt instrument, inappropriate limits being enforced etc etc, surely?
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Re: invited to a speed awareness course
[Re: adder58]
#1304859
10/01/2012 17:13
10/01/2012 17:13
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 6,731 Surrey
Emjay
Forum is my life
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Forum is my life
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 6,731
Surrey
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A belief that you might not have been speeding because you have no idea what speed you were doing until after the event when you slowed down and checked the speedo is, I grant you, unlikely to create the necessary reasonable doubt in the face of camera etc evidence. But then, I'm not convinced that it should or that it demonstrates a terrible injustice.
I would be interested to hear from someone convicted of speeding who genuinely wasn't speeding at the time. Those who have no idea what speed they were doing need not apply.
Does our law condemn a man without first hearing him to find out what he has been doing? (John 7:51)
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Re: invited to a speed awareness course
[Re: Emjay]
#1304861
10/01/2012 17:31
10/01/2012 17:31
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,917
JimO
Forum veteran
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Forum veteran
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,917
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I would be interested to hear from someone convicted of speeding who genuinely wasn't speeding at the time. Hello, yes, you called, well let me tell you the first time I got caught speeding, there was no way I was doing 46 in a 30, no sirree. Again the second time, nope I wasn't going 56 in a 40 The third time, yet again, I wasn't doing 65 in a 50 The 4th time I was never going 83 on the motorway Now the time I got knabbed for doing 103 in a 50, well yes that one was correct
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Re: invited to a speed awareness course
[Re: adder58]
#1304863
10/01/2012 17:38
10/01/2012 17:38
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,917
JimO
Forum veteran
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Forum veteran
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,917
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I have lost count the number of points I have amassed over the years, but if points make prizes I would have a caravan and a speedboat by now, its something in the mid to high 20's I think.
I have never moaned about it, I have never tried to evade it, I have never worried about it, I have just paid up collected the bonus points and moved on.
Its the law you have to live with it, as others have said if I didn;t want to get caught, or anyone in that matter, I / they shouldn't speed - there is no arguement at all, just say no kids!
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Re: invited to a speed awareness course
[Re: JimO]
#1304896
10/01/2012 19:48
10/01/2012 19:48
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 6,144 Southampton, Hants
Roadking
Club member 1809
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Club member 1809
Forum is my life
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 6,144
Southampton, Hants
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there is no arguement at all, just say no to kids! Too late, surely Jim?
"RK's way seems the most sensible to me". ali_hire 16 Dec 2010
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Re: invited to a speed awareness course
[Re: adder58]
#1304925
10/01/2012 22:02
10/01/2012 22:02
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Toad
Unregistered
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Toad
Unregistered
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Remember a speed gun can miss read by targeting slip and give an inaccurate return speed figure
Oh look your speeding
And remember when they say "I believe you were speeding Sir", never admit it, let them prove it first, you can't get done on more for denying it first.
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Re: invited to a speed awareness course
[Re: Nigel]
#1304945
10/01/2012 22:48
10/01/2012 22:48
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 6,568 Northampton England
Sedicivalvole
Club member 2092
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Club member 2092
Forum is my life
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 6,568
Northampton England
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you cannot discredit the speeds gun reading (assuming its has a calibration certificate, which it almost certainly will) You would be surprised - I had a speeding offence quashed because there was no calibration certificates - apparently, the South Wales plod had "mislaid" the certificates Yes but they read you as doing 169MPH and thought it was their mistake.....
Vinci Grey LE Alfa 147 GTA 3.2 V6 BMW E92 M3 4.0 V8 Fiat Tipo Sedicivalvole 2.0 16v ABS
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Re: invited to a speed awareness course
[Re: ]
#1304950
10/01/2012 23:00
10/01/2012 23:00
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,128 M5, 6th gear, 2400rpm
bikenut55
Enjoying the ride
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Enjoying the ride
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,128
M5, 6th gear, 2400rpm
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54% of the population now have points on there licence, when you have a law that incriminates that much of the population, then one can only conclude its the law that is criminal, not the population! I disagree. I conclude that 54% of the population got caught breaking the law by speeding. The speed limits and resulting law aren't there to catch you out, they're there for our safety. It seems to me, the problem you have is the way the Police go about enforcing the law.
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Re: invited to a speed awareness course
[Re: adder58]
#1304967
10/01/2012 23:50
10/01/2012 23:50
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AlanC
Unregistered
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AlanC
Unregistered
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In the days before the scameras you could get away with speeding and just get a lecture. Now with scameras you get done. My eldest lad recently got done doing 79 on the M6. If it was a traffic copper he would not have got pulled unless they were playing snooker and needed the black as he has a black car.
I have never had any points on my licence. I even got pulled once doing ***mph. If you are driving in a sensible manner then they might juat give you a warning. Drive like an idiot then you deserve to lose your licence.
Last edited by AlanC; 10/01/2012 23:53.
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Re: invited to a speed awareness course
[Re: ]
#1305283
11/01/2012 18:51
11/01/2012 18:51
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,595 angus, scotland
jimbob13
I need some sleep
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I need some sleep
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,595
angus, scotland
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If you are driving in a sensible manner then they might juat give you a warning. Drive like an idiot then you deserve to lose your licence. Open to interpretation, some would argue that speeding and driving like an idiot may not be mutually exclusive.
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