Just had this though. Wondered if anyone here has had the honour. What should I expect? I have googled this, found one reviewer who stated he had been escorted out the build after 2 hours for 'debating' too much!!

Has anyone done the driving element, if yes, what does this involve?

BTW I was flashed do 38 on a 2 lane stretch of road. no excuse, thought I was just 'tootling' down the road.

Couple of people I know have done it and said it was rather interesting. Theirs were run by the AA (not the police), so they saw it as an educational rather than a rollocking.

Not sure I know of any that are run by the police, all the ones I know of are run by private companies, hence the fee rather than a fine. Nice little earner

It isn't a rollicking, not allowed to be and you are supposed to walk away from it with a different perspective.

Just approach it with an open mind and grit your teeth whilst bearing in mind you've avoided three points on your licence

Stan, do you have to be invited for this or can you ask to go on it rather than get 3 points?

I know they only offer it when you have a clean licence and it's your first offence, altough it's not guaranteed?

It can't be requested. It may be that your area don't run the course or haven't signed up to scheme or that the speed clocked was outside the limits required for the course; i.e. they only deal with the "marginal" cases.

As you've also alluded to, if you've done the course in the past three years then you also don't get offered it either, so be careful out there.

I've sat in on a couple and was "sort of" impressed. There was just one where I had an issue with the attitude of the guy running the course but that was more to do with him than anything else....

On balance I'd recommend them as a good way to keep a clean licence and maybe learn something at the same time. Oh, and like blood donors, they give you tea and biccies!

Wot! they are going to take my blood??!!

when the notice came through it states if I admit to it quick enough I MAY be invited to attend the course. The invite came through today and I have 21 days to accept. I will reply today. I'm on the kent one, but this doesn't have the driving element. just a classroom. I fancied ago at the driving part, I wonder if other surrounding counties do it.

the deal is if you are caught doing anything upto 42mph in a 30, then you maybe asked to come along.

Yeah, so it's just the four hour course then, not a huge amount of time and you'll be surprised at the mixture of people who get invited.

They only take blood if you fail.....

I did one of these last year (67 in a 60, mid-overtake) - just a classroom course, run by the AA, and it was pretty interesting - definitely worth it rather than taking points.

Just don't act like an idiot during the course and you'll be fine - the guy who got escorted off must have been a real fool.

i did one of these.

they are BORING as hell.

i started to think that he points are a better choice

but enjoy!
the fact about the first traffic light was an interesting fact.

but ive forgotten now

I'm not surprised he was thrown out. I heard of someone getting similar short shrift at midnight mass. "Mass debater ejected from church" I think the headline was...

Just make sure you don't get a speeding ticket on the way to this course.

i was hoping to take the driving element to show them how I can drive fast.... yet safe

I have one booked in November. I think there's a 50:50 chance of me ending up having to pay the £60 and getting three points anyway as I won't be lectured at by some BRAKE spastic about how overtaking is worse than paedophilia.

I'm going with an open mind though.

They aren't like that at all. Although overtaking is an awful, disgusting and depraved thing.

The good thing about paedophiles is at least they drive slowly past schools....

Heh. They have these courses in the building our workshops are in, just down the corridor. This is the Cambridgeshire lot.

They hold two courses a day, three or four days a week, thirty or forty people at a time. That's a lot of speeders... casual observation suggests that on the average, the men outnumber the women ten or twenty to one, which suggests that either women drive more slowly than men, or that the drive so much faster that they don't get the option...

Haha!

That was genuinely funny.

I'm due today at my 'awareness course' Will I return 'Reborn'??? or just simply brainwashed

I did the awareness course a couple of months ago - driver awareness rather than speed awareness - run by Dorset police. I think the most important lesson I learnt was that if I use a SatNav, which I don't, it is illegal to place it within the swipe of the wipers.

Its a better option than the points, but I couldn't help thinking it would be more beneficial for insurance companies to use for their more regular claimants.

The course was ok, I don't speed in 30 or 40 mph zones anyway (I thought I was in a 40 zone but it was a 30) So I didn't really learn anything that would change the way I drive, Never knew (or probably forgot) that a pattern of street lights means it's a 30 mph zone (unless other speed signs are in place) even on a dual carriage way, and also a dual carriage way can still be a single lane road.

What I found most interesting was the physics behind a braking car, and why 5 mph extra makes such a difference at impact point

this was the video they showed http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kM4p0-cKgGY (this was just 3mph difference)

My daughter starts driving next month, so I will chat to her about what was discussed.

and if you kill someone whilst on your phone. you could get 14 years in prison !!!

That video is really interesting; scary too! Well worth watching,
Tim

and if you kill someone whilst on your phone. you could get 14 years in prison !!! [/quote]



Really !!! I would have thought it would be much more than 12 years. Manslaughter ?

I did one when they first came out. They used to be £50. If the date is no good for you you can change it once. The one I did had one part that made the room go quiet. It was when a bloke came on where his daughter had been killed by a speeding motorist. The one part I learned was when you see speed camera signs keep to the speed limit. You have a chance of getting offered one every 3 years. My wife got 3 points in my Coupe. She spent all day telling me to slow down. Got home to find the dreaded envelope. Looked at my works rota. I was at work. So I grassed her up She got offered a speed awareness course when she got caught a couple of years later. The time ahe got 3 points she forgot she was in my car. She put her into 2nd coming off an island and put her foot down. They were waiting round the corner for her.

Really !!! I would have thought it would be much more than 12 years. Manslaughter ? [/quote]

That's what they told us and it says it here as well http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causing_death_by_dangerous_driving

Can I join in please,

As a long life speeder, I would welcome a way of convincing me to slow down, but I feel its like smoking must be, its all very well presenting the facts, its still very difficult to adhere to the reasoning.

Video's, every single video I have seen always shows trick editing to make the point. I feel if people want drivers like me to take it seriously, they must show the facts. (1st car has ABS 2nd car doesn't)

We all get told if your doing the speed limit say 30mph a child (Its always a child) is likely to live, my question is, is this assuming we will slow down in time from 30mph? or is it the impact speed is 30mph? My concern is there are so many drivers out there saying I drive at the speed limit so I'm a good driver, when in fact, if they looked out the windscreen all that time of looking down at there instruments, they would be far safer and a much better road user, even if they were going a little faster. And lets face it, we all know not to stay on the brakes all the way to impact, DON'T??? WE??? maybe not, so slow down untill you learn this.

Next; If you want people to drive differently teach them differently and not just to pass a test, its a privilege not a right, what do I see every day;

Lets educate these drivers first

I've put my rear fog lights on so you don't hit me up the back, and then there on for three months until the MOT or service turns them off.

Well I've put my lights on, I can see, who needs those bright ones on, the side light drivers we cant see with the other lights on around them.

I'm doing the speed limit so I'm a good driver
I'm doing the speed limit so I'm you can't come past me
You should be doing the speed limit so I'm going to pull out any way.
I'm ever so careful with my driving, but I've never checked my tyre pressure once.
My cars better than yours I'm not letting you past
The lovely drivers that stand on there brakes in the outside lane, then pull in.


Types of driver;
1. Those that just get caught out in odd ways, not consistent speeders.

2. Consistent speeders, but still with thought and concern about there driving standards, adds to there driving skills when ever possible, (did you slid off, yes so why did it happen, and not just HeHe that was fun.)

3. Constant speeders with no concern or thought's about there driving ability's or any one else on the road, you know the type, I'm going to beat you no mater what, I'm going to stay in the outside lane all the way, idiots.


PLEASE I don't wish to condone speeding, but lets face it, if you do 31 your an bad driver, next day the government change's its mind and your not, its as simple as that.

DRIVE WITH COMMON SENSE, DRIVE WITHIN YOUR LIMITS, HOW HARD CAN IT BE

Roger.....

It's also worth noting that the limit is just that, a limit and not a target you have to hit.
There are plenty of occasions where a 30mph limit may be inforced but you would be considered dangess trying to do that

In all seriousness, why do speed limits seem to be the only law consistently up for debate?

Probably because so many cases of bad driving and accedents are blambed on speed, rather than the pore judgment of the driver, or pore judgment of the fellow that gave that driver a license in the first place.

To me it's as simple as this: To get not guilty for speeding, you have to prove you were not speeding. I dont see how someone can do that, given there is a copper and a speed gun reading to prove it. You cannot impute or prove the copper is lying, you cannot discredit the speeds gun reading (assuming its has a calibration certificate, which it almost certainly will).

You have nothing to disprove the evidence they have, and what they have is all that the law requires to convict you. I can't see any loopholes as it stands that can assist anyone caught exceeding the speed limit (if only a few miles per hour)

My point here is that, like many otherwise law abiding citizens, I have just discovered that the law is not just an ass, its a corrupt money making machine, and it has nothing to do with justice. 54% of the population now have points on there licence, when you have a law that incriminates that much of the population, then one can only conclude its the law that is criminal, not the population!

That is why I believe speed limits are so up for debate

Karl

Unless you're a Premier league footy player/Manager or otherwise have access to the very top lawyers - they seem to consistently get people off

You would be surprised - I had a speeding offence quashed because there was no calibration certificates - apparently, the South Wales plod had "mislaid" the certificates

but considering how many people are nowadays getting stopped and how 'on the ball' most forces are with calibration certs, I'm hearing of less and less taht are not uncalibrated or with 'lost ' certs

Karl

Buy an in car camera (expensive I know), when you are stopped you will have enough evidence to measure the distance you covered and the time.

Which will prove if you really did (or didn't) speed. It will also be handy in an accident as well.

People will tend to debate the things that they think affect them. If you are only at risk of conviction of certain crimes, those will be the ones on your radar [ahem].

I suspect it is rather less to do with any genuine belief of injustice within society as it is self-interest.

If you want to reduce chances of conviction, don't commit the offence. If you commit the offence and are convicted, I don't see you've/I've got much to whine about.

If you can show a reasonable doubt, then you have a defence. Is there anyone on this forum (or known to anyone on this forum) convicted of speeding who genuinely wasn't exceeding the speed limit at that time?

but therein lies the conundrum....how do you prove you weren't speeding?

by the time you notice the Police/Camera/Radar etc and look down at your speedo, the natural reaction would have been to lift off the accelerator meaning that you will have slowed somewhat.

when confronted by the Police with evidence of speeding (Policeman with camera) how can you defend against that?

Karl

As above, in car camera. Then when the officer says you doing 500 leptons, you can show them the evidence.

More of a problem if you get caught by a radar/speed camera. But maybe some kind of black box that records your GPS position, speed via the cars ECU would be possible.

I wonder if a sat nav could be hacked to log details of your car journey with a GPS/Speed/Direction and time.

Which would suggest you were speeding in the first place - i.e. committing the offence you're being accused of.

Emjay's point is that if you don't want to get caught speeding, then don't speed.

The issue with speeding and speed limit enforcement isn't that people who aren't speeding are getting accused of speeding and unable to prove they weren't - in fact, I've never heard of anyone suggesting that they weren't speeding but that they got "done" anyway, and it was all a big scam.

The debate is more around camera enforcement as a blunt instrument, inappropriate limits being enforced etc etc, surely?

A belief that you might not have been speeding because you have no idea what speed you were doing until after the event when you slowed down and checked the speedo is, I grant you, unlikely to create the necessary reasonable doubt in the face of camera etc evidence. But then, I'm not convinced that it should or that it demonstrates a terrible injustice.

I would be interested to hear from someone convicted of speeding who genuinely wasn't speeding at the time. Those who have no idea what speed they were doing need not apply.

Hello, yes, you called, well let me tell you the first time I got caught speeding, there was no way I was doing 46 in a 30, no sirree.

Again the second time, nope I wasn't going 56 in a 40

The third time, yet again, I wasn't doing 65 in a 50

The 4th time I was never going 83 on the motorway

Now the time I got knabbed for doing 103 in a 50, well yes that one was correct

I have lost count the number of points I have amassed over the years, but if points make prizes I would have a caravan and a speedboat by now, its something in the mid to high 20's I think.

I have never moaned about it, I have never tried to evade it, I have never worried about it, I have just paid up collected the bonus points and moved on.

Its the law you have to live with it, as others have said if I didn;t want to get caught, or anyone in that matter, I / they shouldn't speed - there is no arguement at all, just say no kids!

Too late, surely Jim?

Remember a speed gun can miss read by targeting slip and give an inaccurate return speed figure

Oh look your speeding


And remember when they say "I believe you were speeding Sir", never admit it, let them prove it first, you can't get done on more for denying it first.

Yes but they read you as doing 169MPH and thought it was their mistake.....

I disagree. I conclude that 54% of the population got caught breaking the law by speeding.

The speed limits and resulting law aren't there to catch you out, they're there for our safety. It seems to me, the problem you have is the way the Police go about enforcing the law.

In the days before the scameras you could get away with speeding and just get a lecture. Now with scameras you get done. My eldest lad recently got done doing 79 on the M6. If it was a traffic copper he would not have got pulled unless they were playing snooker and needed the black as he has a black car.

I have never had any points on my licence. I even got pulled once doing ***mph. If you are driving in a sensible manner then they might juat give you a warning. Drive like an idiot then you deserve to lose your licence.

Open to interpretation, some would argue that speeding and driving like an idiot may not be mutually exclusive.