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20vt twincharger - 90% ready!
#981073
08/02/2010 23:08
08/02/2010 23:08
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uzo
Unregistered
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uzo
Unregistered
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To tell the long story short: we`ve tried to do something with the lag on low RPM. Price to pay: no aircon at all + some $. Stuff needed: Mercedes inline-4 supercharger, bigger injectors, 2 hands. Now working with the automatic switch. .
Last edited by uzo; 08/02/2010 23:23.
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Re: 20vt twincharger - 90% ready!
[Re: ]
#981152
09/02/2010 01:04
09/02/2010 01:04
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fiat_centre
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fiat_centre
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nice to see how this turns out, interesting project there
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Re: 20vt twincharger - 90% ready!
[Re: ]
#981156
09/02/2010 01:13
09/02/2010 01:13
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Craig_SWales
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Craig_SWales
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you must be loaded....lol
nice work lover
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Re: 20vt twincharger - 90% ready!
[Re: ]
#981268
09/02/2010 11:15
09/02/2010 11:15
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,194 Göteborg, Sweden
Freddan72
Competition Level
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Competition Level
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,194
Göteborg, Sweden
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Wow this looks really cool . It must be very difficult to install all parts and make them work together. How is the compressor connected to the intake side? Do you have a picture that shows the complete installation?
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Re: 20vt twincharger - 90% ready!
[Re: Freddan72]
#981272
09/02/2010 11:23
09/02/2010 11:23
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Marco20valveT
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Marco20valveT
Unregistered
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need to ask, how much clearance do you have between the charger and the Rad??
also, what turbo are you using?
and last question, how did you route the pipe work?
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Re: 20vt twincharger - 90% ready!
[Re: ]
#981303
09/02/2010 12:19
09/02/2010 12:19
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uzo
Unregistered
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uzo
Unregistered
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The smallest clearance is about 20mm Here you can see how close it is Turbo is a noname hybrid Supercharger Pipework Finally decided with the switch We use the easyest scheme, it works like this one
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Re: 20vt twincharger - 90% ready!
[Re: ]
#985823
17/02/2010 19:07
17/02/2010 19:07
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leugim_21
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leugim_21
Unregistered
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Re: 20vt twincharger - 90% ready!
[Re: ]
#985830
17/02/2010 19:14
17/02/2010 19:14
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,252 Windsor/ Reading
knight7660
Competition Level
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Competition Level
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,252
Windsor/ Reading
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look mentel i want one now
LE53 (452BHp & 389ftlb's with Quaife) Wine red VIS FOOFY Audi RS4 B7
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Re: 20vt twincharger - 90% ready!
[Re: knight7660]
#986017
18/02/2010 00:47
18/02/2010 00:47
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chr77176
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chr77176
Unregistered
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Re: 20vt twincharger - 90% ready!
[Re: ]
#986081
18/02/2010 10:18
18/02/2010 10:18
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Marco20valveT
Unregistered
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Marco20valveT
Unregistered
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thanks for the pipe info mate!
i may drop you a pm with a few of my own questions! i really want to see performance figure's!
thanks (looks brilliant by the way!)
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Re: 20vt twincharger - 90% ready!
[Re: ]
#992164
28/02/2010 22:39
28/02/2010 22:39
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ryangt
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ryangt
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i might be being dumb hear but the picture shows 4 inlets doesn't the 20v engine have 5? .
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Re: 20vt twincharger - 90% ready!
[Re: ]
#992351
01/03/2010 10:45
01/03/2010 10:45
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TurboJ
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TurboJ
Unregistered
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It's just a concept sketch, don't think he hacked off the other cylinder
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Re: 20vt twincharger - 90% ready!
[Re: ]
#992418
01/03/2010 12:27
01/03/2010 12:27
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Deviltje
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Deviltje
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I think the sketch is for a volkswagen audi 20v, because of the 3 inlet valves per cilinder.
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Re: 20vt twincharger - 90% ready!
[Re: ]
#992524
01/03/2010 15:51
01/03/2010 15:51
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Steve_G
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Steve_G
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4AGE 20v is a toyota engine.
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Re: 20vt twincharger - 90% ready!
[Re: ]
#993365
02/03/2010 19:50
02/03/2010 19:50
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,706 Gone
Jimbo
Je suis un Coupé
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Je suis un Coupé
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,706
Gone
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We use the easyest scheme, it works like this one It's just a sketch to give you the rough idea of the system layout guys Looks superb, looking forward to the results from the rollers. What was the goal for the build, a wide spread of power or an improved bottom end?
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Re: 20vt twincharger - 90% ready!
[Re: Jimbo]
#993550
02/03/2010 23:22
02/03/2010 23:22
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Steve_G
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Steve_G
Unregistered
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I'm not sure the diagram is 100% correct, you'd wan't to run the supercharger in parallel with the turbo with the one way valve on the supercharger exit.
The diagram is correct this is simply one way of twincharging an engine using the supercharger to spool the turbo then allowing freeflow when the valve opens. I said this is one way of doing it not the best, worst, right, wrong encase someone feels to knit pick.
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Re: 20vt twincharger - 90% ready!
[Re: ]
#993551
02/03/2010 23:24
02/03/2010 23:24
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Steve_G
Unregistered
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Steve_G
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Must add really looking forward to see how this turns out when finished.
Steve
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Re: 20vt twincharger - 90% ready!
[Re: Jimbo]
#993593
03/03/2010 00:24
03/03/2010 00:24
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TurboJ
Unregistered
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TurboJ
Unregistered
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Yet again, for the thrid thread now there are two ways to twin charge. Supercharger sucking through the turbocharger or Supercharger blowing into the turbocharger. Lancia S4 Delta VW TSI
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Re: 20vt twincharger - 90% ready!
[Re: ]
#993643
03/03/2010 08:26
03/03/2010 08:26
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,643 Watford
MarioCirillo
Ex El Presidente
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Ex El Presidente
I AM a Coop
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,643
Watford
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Do we have any power figures for this setup yet?
Proud Owner of Rosso Speed LE041
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Re: 20vt twincharger - 90% ready!
[Re: MarioCirillo]
#993655
03/03/2010 08:48
03/03/2010 08:48
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Marco20valveT
Unregistered
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Marco20valveT
Unregistered
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I am itching for power to see of it's worth doing!!
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Re: 20vt twincharger - 90% ready!
[Re: ]
#993687
03/03/2010 10:49
03/03/2010 10:49
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devbod
Unregistered
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devbod
Unregistered
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Great project. I'm curious to know how you are going to switch the supercharger in/out to give you the power you want and still make it drivable.
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Re: 20vt twincharger - 90% ready!
[Re: ]
#993714
03/03/2010 11:15
03/03/2010 11:15
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 6,568 Northampton England
Sedicivalvole
Club member 2092
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Club member 2092
Forum is my life
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 6,568
Northampton England
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This looks very interesting
Vinci Grey LE Alfa 147 GTA 3.2 V6 BMW E92 M3 4.0 V8 Fiat Tipo Sedicivalvole 2.0 16v ABS
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Re: 20vt twincharger - 90% ready!
[Re: ]
#993736
03/03/2010 11:51
03/03/2010 11:51
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,405 Castle Combe
Flea
Forum is my life
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Forum is my life
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,405
Castle Combe
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Great project. I'm curious to know how you are going to switch the supercharger in/out to give you the power you want and still make it drivable. Looks to be a pressure switch using wastegate preload, or for greater control a boost controller e.g. bypass supercharger at 1bar.
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Re: 20vt twincharger - 90% ready!
[Re: Flea]
#993739
03/03/2010 11:56
03/03/2010 11:56
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Marco20valveT
Unregistered
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Marco20valveT
Unregistered
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so if you set this up with a boost controller you could programme it to flick over at one bar to the tubro?
am i right or am i in my own world with this??
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Re: 20vt twincharger - 90% ready!
[Re: ]
#993744
03/03/2010 12:02
03/03/2010 12:02
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,295 Sandhurst
Begbie
Ex El Presidente
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Ex El Presidente
I AM a Coop
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,295
Sandhurst
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so if you set this up with a boost controller you could programme it to flick over at one bar to the tubro?
am i right or am i in my own world with this?? You could, or could leave it later, but it would depend on what pressure the actuator is rated to to open / close
Your car is Usain Bolt with wellies
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Re: 20vt twincharger - 90% ready!
[Re: Begbie]
#993760
03/03/2010 12:12
03/03/2010 12:12
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Marco20valveT
Unregistered
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Marco20valveT
Unregistered
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ok, best thing i think i could do is just wack it together and bring it to flea for his magic touch!
or and put a boost contoller on also!
surley you would want the charger to go upto 3,500rpm then turbo to take over?
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Re: 20vt twincharger - 90% ready!
[Re: ]
#993792
03/03/2010 13:18
03/03/2010 13:18
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Steve_G
Unregistered
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Steve_G
Unregistered
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Well it all depends on the efficency of the supercharger and when the turbo would be creating enough boost pressure to make the switch over desirable. You can't just say 3,500 rpm you will need to compare the maps of both the chargers to see. I think the pressure switch is the right way to go about it.
If you want to get the most out of this set up you will need to match each one charger with the other
Steve
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Re: 20vt twincharger - 90% ready!
[Re: Nigel]
#993822
03/03/2010 14:07
03/03/2010 14:07
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Steve_G
Unregistered
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Steve_G
Unregistered
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By the very nature of how the superchargers are installed they will always be active. The turbo will be what switches between routes of resistance.
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Re: 20vt twincharger - 90% ready!
[Re: ]
#993831
03/03/2010 14:25
03/03/2010 14:25
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,072 South Cambs
Barmybob
Hon Club Member: 003
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Hon Club Member: 003
Je suis un Coupé
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,072
South Cambs
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I thought the main benefit of duel charging was to allow the running of a much larger turbo? I used to work on 2 stroke Detroit Diesels and they ran massive turbos with a screw blower. Huge ammounts of power available at any RPM
Gone Audi mad!
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Re: 20vt twincharger - 90% ready!
[Re: ]
#993837
03/03/2010 14:33
03/03/2010 14:33
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,405 Castle Combe
Flea
Forum is my life
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Forum is my life
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,405
Castle Combe
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By the very nature of how the superchargers are installed they will always be active. The turbo will be what switches between routes of resistance. Not quite Steve, Superchargers are clutch operated according to vaccuum pressure so the blower is disengaged from the pulley when cruising under normal conditions. The supercharger won't have to run much boost to help initiate the turbo response earlier due to the increased EGTs. Of course you need to manage the turbo pressure to prevent surge at low rpms so the effective switch point will need to meet all these criteria as well as considering best performance.
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Re: 20vt twincharger - 90% ready!
[Re: Flea]
#993840
03/03/2010 14:42
03/03/2010 14:42
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TurboJ
Unregistered
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TurboJ
Unregistered
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All you need is a throttle body and a central locking solenoid for the switch over forget all this pressure switching rubbish it’s too unreliable and over complex. You don't need a clutch on the S/C that’s an optional extra
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Re: 20vt twincharger - 90% ready!
[Re: Flea]
#993860
03/03/2010 15:17
03/03/2010 15:17
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Marco20valveT
Unregistered
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Marco20valveT
Unregistered
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Flea, how would you set this up?
if you where running a T28 hybird with a min cooper supercharger?
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Re: 20vt twincharger - 90% ready!
[Re: ]
#993868
03/03/2010 15:42
03/03/2010 15:42
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TheAudioGuy
Unregistered
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TheAudioGuy
Unregistered
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the eaton mini super charger is too short as you can see there has been a mod to extend the pully and shaft your be better off buying a eaton m90 as its longer http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/New-Eaton-m90-supe...=item45f15349c2
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Re: 20vt twincharger - 90% ready!
[Re: ]
#993878
03/03/2010 16:09
03/03/2010 16:09
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TheAudioGuy
Unregistered
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TheAudioGuy
Unregistered
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Re: 20vt twincharger - 90% ready!
[Re: ]
#993903
03/03/2010 16:53
03/03/2010 16:53
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Steve_G
Unregistered
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Steve_G
Unregistered
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I was talking without a clutch, with the switch operating the butterfly to allow the turbo to free flow An M90 is a huge charger, wants the point in buying a charger because it will fit easier. Buy one that suits the application. Marco you don't need to twin charge a hybrid as barmybob says in a performance appliction twin charging is best suited to overcome a larger turbos lag, how you chose to do it is up to you.
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Re: 20vt twincharger - 90% ready!
[Re: ]
#993905
03/03/2010 16:58
03/03/2010 16:58
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Marco20valveT
Unregistered
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Marco20valveT
Unregistered
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ture, i know you need a big turbo, but i was thinking just trying out the set up on my hybrid! im thinking it would give me a nice kick off the line upto turbo and increase spool up and reduce lag! instead of starting with a huge turbo and using the charger to reduce lag i want to see if i can make the best set up with waht i have with out ogoing overkill on funding.. (a cheaper way for now) or do what you have done steve and strap Nos to my car
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Re: 20vt twincharger - 90% ready!
[Re: ]
#995899
06/03/2010 19:34
06/03/2010 19:34
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toggs
Unregistered
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toggs
Unregistered
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Re: 20vt twincharger - 90% ready!
[Re: ]
#1008714
27/03/2010 11:54
27/03/2010 11:54
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chr77176
Unregistered
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chr77176
Unregistered
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any update from this project?
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Re: 20vt twincharger - 90% ready!
[Re: ]
#1333002
08/04/2012 18:26
08/04/2012 18:26
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gscozzari
Unregistered
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gscozzari
Unregistered
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Re: 20vt twincharger - 90% ready!
[Re: ]
#1511931
17/10/2014 01:06
17/10/2014 01:06
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KBT
Unregistered
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KBT
Unregistered
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Another 2 years have passed so a bit of a thread revival.
I was interested to see this, then wished I hadn`t as i`m determined not to be influenced by other installations. The system I have designed operates in a slightly different way although the thinking is similar.
If the blower is run off the crank I would say a clutch is very useful and I looked at the air-con compressor with butchery in mind. I ruled out mounting the blower where this thread has it sited for several reasons. Potentially a twin charge system allows use of a high output turbo while maintaining excellent throttle response. My engine at 340 bhp does not need twin charging, but at 450bhp and up this would be very useful and could mean less stress on the gearbox as power delivery remains progressive?
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