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Gearbox Strengthening
#808385
06/04/2009 12:49
06/04/2009 12:49
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TurboJ
Unregistered
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TurboJ
Unregistered
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I’m looking to do some research into possible ways to strengthen the 20VT gearbox. I have phoned up a few gearbox specialists but they suggest that I need to know where they are breaking first. Can I ask all members who have blown gearboxes to post:
1) Torque they were running 2) What part blew 3) Any pictures
I can pass this information on and hopefully come up with a possible solution/prototype that I would be willing to test.
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Re: Gearbox Strengthening
[Re: ]
#808395
06/04/2009 12:57
06/04/2009 12:57
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Squid
Unregistered
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Squid
Unregistered
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Ooohh, you beat me to it!
Also, if anyone has any experinces of having fitted other gearboxes to the 20VT such as the Integrale etc.
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Re: Gearbox Strengthening
[Re: ]
#808401
06/04/2009 13:02
06/04/2009 13:02
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eldinho
Unregistered
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eldinho
Unregistered
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oooo more money
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Re: Gearbox Strengthening
[Re: ]
#808405
06/04/2009 13:08
06/04/2009 13:08
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TurboJ
Unregistered
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TurboJ
Unregistered
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Not yet its purley research first.
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Re: Gearbox Strengthening
[Re: ]
#808420
06/04/2009 13:23
06/04/2009 13:23
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Nobby
Unregistered
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Nobby
Unregistered
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Off the top of my head, 6 spds die from lack of lubrication at prolonged speeds high speeds.
5spds, well you'll have to ask the likes of nyssa7 as he's probably broken a few.
Barbz also used to add a strengthening plate to his coupe. I don't know where is was fitted though.
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Re: Gearbox Strengthening
[Re: ]
#808430
06/04/2009 13:39
06/04/2009 13:39
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JimSE
Unregistered
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JimSE
Unregistered
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Barbz also used to add a strengthening plate to his coupe. I don't know where is was fitted though. I remember a picture of this being posted on the TI website, but wasn't it a 6 speed box, with a plate welded on to the end of the gearbox? (That is, Euro spec drivers side/UK passanger side)
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Re: Gearbox Strengthening
[Re: ]
#808453
06/04/2009 14:03
06/04/2009 14:03
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TurboJ
Unregistered
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TurboJ
Unregistered
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The plate was for the early 5 spd as they were able to split. But i want to look it to other methods aswell as a plate alone can't be enough.
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Re: Gearbox Strengthening
[Re: ]
#808574
06/04/2009 17:08
06/04/2009 17:08
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nyssa7
Unregistered
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nyssa7
Unregistered
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Off the top of my head, 6 spds die from lack of lubrication at prolonged speeds high speeds.
5spds, well you'll have to ask the likes of nyssa7 as he's probably broken a few.
Barbz also used to add a strengthening plate to his coupe. I don't know where is was fitted though. Engines yes - gearboxes, surprisingly not so! Not run a 5 speed other than the one which came with my original 20vt donor car, it broke on the rolling road but anyone's guess what condition it was in, so doesn't count Have punched the diff through the bell housing with a 6 speed, but other than that, I think strengthening gearboxes to be a low priority unless you plan to drag race and side step clutches
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Re: Gearbox Strengthening
[Re: ]
#808582
06/04/2009 17:19
06/04/2009 17:19
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TurboJ
Unregistered
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TurboJ
Unregistered
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So how is it your racing and only killed one box and other roads users have been through a few. I'm still on my OE box but if it blows I’m planning on something a little bit beefier.
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Re: Gearbox Strengthening
[Re: ]
#808588
06/04/2009 17:29
06/04/2009 17:29
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suba
Unregistered
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suba
Unregistered
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because on a circuit there is far less load on a clutch than when doing 1/4's or launching on the road - as long as you shift smoothly.
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Re: Gearbox Strengthening
[Re: ]
#808614
06/04/2009 18:08
06/04/2009 18:08
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eldinho
Unregistered
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eldinho
Unregistered
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maybe because Leighton has no mechanical sympathy
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Re: Gearbox Strengthening
[Re: ]
#808637
06/04/2009 18:36
06/04/2009 18:36
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,405 Castle Combe
Flea
Forum is my life
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Forum is my life
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,405
Castle Combe
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Oh look at that, another zero appeared on your bill Seriously though, I don't drive my car too hard except on the track or the strip. Ironically the first box let go on the dyno (crown wheel & pinion) and the last two on the road when accelerating in 2nd (blown diff) and 3rd (blown 3rd). The cost of strengthening a box is considerable, a lot more than you are thinking Jason. My last box cost me £220 fitted.
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Re: Gearbox Strengthening
[Re: Flea]
#808672
06/04/2009 19:15
06/04/2009 19:15
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westcoupe
Unregistered
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westcoupe
Unregistered
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i have blown two boxes in a year,first one i blew was in 4th and it was messy oil everywhere and there was a hole in the casing and the second one let go flooring it in second but that was the diff that time that went
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Re: Gearbox Strengthening
[Re: Gaz]
#808735
06/04/2009 20:53
06/04/2009 20:53
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sediciRich
Unregistered
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sediciRich
Unregistered
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I question how often if ever the average coupe enthusiast changes his gear box oil.
With a helicial gear the thrust forces are a lot greater then a straight cut gear (hence greater power loss)this can force the drives sideways reducing contact or rather leading to an uneven wear. High torque simply forces the shafts apart. In Bowen's book on gearbox building he mentions the addition of extra webs to OE castings as a method to keep the shafts in mesh, would need a very good welder and machined sections.
If you want to know then ask someone who had to go all out-http://www.jmcpower.com/ , Mike is the owner.
rich
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Re: Gearbox Strengthening
[Re: ]
#808803
06/04/2009 21:57
06/04/2009 21:57
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nyssa7
Unregistered
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nyssa7
Unregistered
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So how is it your racing and only killed one box and other roads users have been through a few. I'm still on my OE box but if it blows I’m planning on something a little bit beefier. maybe I change gear smoother? Not being clever or derogatory - certainly I don't bother with heel and toe crap when driving a road car, but have a good bash at matching revs on downchanges far more diligently on track. Puts it under less strain and less likely to lock the fronts changing down we also do rolling starts in the LMA Euro Saloons so no giving the box grief from a standing start. Have done a couple of standing start races in the DMN series but I'm going to get so much wheelspin anyway, just get the thing rolling gently and then boot it. Any one who saw me pulling away at Santa Pod two or three years back - I got it rolling like I was towing a caravan, then hoofed up the strip with the wheels still spinning in 5th. Strangely, it wasn't long after that the diff went through the bell housing smashing all the casing. But still using the same gear set in a new case Besides, I've made up in engines what I've saved in gearboxes ;-(
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Re: Gearbox Strengthening
[Re: ]
#808898
07/04/2009 00:15
07/04/2009 00:15
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doug20vt
Unregistered
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doug20vt
Unregistered
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could you strengthen the 5 speed n/a box so it could take the torque of the turbo
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Re: Gearbox Strengthening
[Re: JohnS]
#809037
07/04/2009 11:09
07/04/2009 11:09
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Nobby
Unregistered
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Nobby
Unregistered
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Didn't you crack a gearbox on a pothole once John?
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Re: Gearbox Strengthening
[Re: ]
#809066
07/04/2009 11:48
07/04/2009 11:48
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TurboJ
Unregistered
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TurboJ
Unregistered
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Some good info their John. I have always used proper gearbox oil. Do you have any pics of your broken boxes?
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Re: Gearbox Strengthening
[Re: JohnS]
#809094
07/04/2009 12:29
07/04/2009 12:29
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Squid
Unregistered
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Squid
Unregistered
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Yes, thanks for that John. I have always been very carefull to change the gearbox oil regularly. I use the fully synthetic oil that was recommended by Oilman.
In fact Jason, you should have a spare bottle of that oil that Roger at Powerfiat gave you....
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Re: Gearbox Strengthening
[Re: ]
#809118
07/04/2009 12:53
07/04/2009 12:53
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,158 Near Reading
JohnS
I need some sleep
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I need some sleep
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,158
Near Reading
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Didn't you crack a gearbox on a pothole once John? yes good memory! My car bottomed out on a major dip and rise in the road and broke 4th gear I think. That was another box again - a late 5 speeder.
Former low boost hero - 616BHP@1.5 bar. 2.4 20VT RIP
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Re: Gearbox Strengthening
[Re: JohnS]
#809330
07/04/2009 17:11
07/04/2009 17:11
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nyssa7
Unregistered
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nyssa7
Unregistered
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Good point on the oil John, needless to say I'm not using stock gearbox oil either. As best as I recall, we're using Joe Gibbs synthetic that AAOil supply - its where I buy the fuel from so comes on the same delivery truck
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Re: Gearbox Strengthening
[Re: JohnS]
#809335
07/04/2009 17:13
07/04/2009 17:13
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Marco20valveT
Unregistered
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Marco20valveT
Unregistered
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wow...a dip and rise did that?!!?
fccuk me running...
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Re: Gearbox Strengthening
[Re: ]
#809410
07/04/2009 18:54
07/04/2009 18:54
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Taz
Unregistered
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Taz
Unregistered
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yup, don't underestimate the oil, I'm oddly enuf using a 75/110 or likewise Joe Gibbs oil ( with a good bit of guidance from JohnS ). It's very pricey, however seems to be keeping it all tip top at present : I must admit, with the gearbox cooler up & running, you can actually hear it humming away in trafic when coming off the motorway, so it does get hot. Oddly enuf I checked it a while ago & there is NO hint of discolouration, where as with the new box I had fitted, after 1k, the oil was quite silvery :o, so it just isn't protecting
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Re: Gearbox Strengthening
[Re: ]
#809702
08/04/2009 00:43
08/04/2009 00:43
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MWT
Unregistered
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MWT
Unregistered
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Re: Gearbox Strengthening
[Re: ]
#809758
08/04/2009 08:52
08/04/2009 08:52
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sediciRich
Unregistered
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sediciRich
Unregistered
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Matt you have spent some serious money on that car. What was the origin of the straight cut gear kit, was is a Brazilian product or one of the Euro gear sets. I assume it to be dog engagement.
Rich
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Re: Gearbox Strengthening
[Re: ]
#809825
08/04/2009 10:16
08/04/2009 10:16
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TurboJ
Unregistered
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TurboJ
Unregistered
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Excellent post exactly what i was loooking for. I'm intrested in that gearkit. How much did it cost?
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