Chrissy - I know exactly what you are saying.

However if you buy a 20VT for a grand then by far the majority of them are going to be nails as they will not have been maintained properly. Rattles and clunks and squeaks need to be fixed on a regular basis, if you ignore any issues on the car then before you know it you will be driving a heap, and it does not take much for a coupe to look and feel pretty ropey.

The same can be said of cossies. There are plenty of Sapphires out there that are nails. Why? Because they are cheap to buy, and people buy them either without the money to maintain them, or because they dont care about maintaining a car that old. They are of the age now where they need a complete suspension overhaul etc. to feel like they were intended.

a few years ago a friend of mine bought a dog of a 20VT (which had only done 50K) for about a grand as a temporary car, despite my telling him not to having seen the car in the dark with him. I test drove it and it felt like a bag of crap...he sold it within two weeks.

Solo Italia are still selling LE's and Pluses for seven or eight grand in good condition.

Compare the car to an Integrale - they share most of the coupe's flaws, but they also are worth a lot more - so you dont see ropey ones on the road.

Your comments about what other drivers think are pretty dumb IMO. I have never been, and never will be, bothered about what other people think of the coupe. Have you ever tried to expain to a BMW enthusiast (sorry cosmo) that has never driven an Italian car what the experience is like? All you will get out of them is statistics and comments like 'it'll break down every day.'

Chrissy, you have had 8 different FIAT Coupes and it has taken you this long to work out that they cost you money?

No seriously, take any modern sports car, drive it hard everywhere, ignore those suspicious noises, and flog it on when it looks a bit tatty. Repeat the cycle a few times and 8-12 years later, say that the car is rubbish. What else would it be?

Why are the Turbos less reliable than the non-turbos. They share much of the construction of the more powerful version, but are not as highly stressed. So yes should be a bit more reliable. The other variable is that they were more likely to have been bought by people who were worried about the the extra complexity of a turbocharged car and they also do not drive the car to its limits. That was my choice. Yes the Turbo was in a different league, speedwise but, even in Germany, the extra top speed is hardly useable. The non-turbo seemed to handle better and I made my choice.

Since buying the car in early 1997, I have looked after it, and it has been nearly 100% reliable. The clutch pump went after 3 years and a coil pack went after 6 - neither time was I stranded. No other costs apart from tyres, brakes, exhausts and batteries. Obviously, I'm surrounded by friends and colleagues with German cars, and hardly any seem that reliable.

I don't feel like I'm driving a rust bucket, because mine still looks nearly new and it turns head just like my Jaguar (which are like hens teeth but respected in Germany - strange, I know). I don't think it is my handsome good looks that does it I would say mine has aged amazingly gracefully. Dynamically it is not as good as modern cars, but that is not expected. For its time it was very good, so is still acceptable.

As for comparative reliability, the ADAC has just released its customer satisfaction survey results. Remembering that Germans are very patriotic about their products, VW came near bottom. The rest were average.

I get the feeling you are comparing apples with a lemon. A car that was last produced in 2000 is, by definition, an "older" car. An old car can't be new or nearly new- contradiction in terms. A new Megane should feel new; something wrong if it does not. A 12 year old RX8 will also be worth very little when that time comes.

A very confusing post - I'm not at all sure what you are trying to say.

Yep, keep perpetuating the stereotypes, that will help enormously to a balanced discussion.

Have you thought that some BMW enthuiasts have owned an Italian car at some stage in their driving career. That's why they are now driving BMWs. Some folk don't value passion and soul as a substitute for engineering.

Personally speaking I never found much 'passion and soul' in the Coop, just an indecent level of straight line performance, a nice noise, exotic looks and hours of fun fiddling with it.

Yes! hence the brackets in my post. I dont include you in that group - but it does undeniably exist!

I would agree with that, although I never really found the noise that great either. Where as my GT had the italian "passion and soul", way more than the coop in my eyes.

Its all different strokes for different blokes I guess, if everyone was the same the place would a dull planet!

Ain't that the truth

That group is represented by at least one in every workplace throughout the UK.

What Cosmo said .

And, I spent the weekend at Snetterton, with the bmw 5 series forum, all showed interest in the coupe, never asked how often it broke down, then proceeded to drive with 'passion and soul' in everything from a 2.0 auto ( 520e )to a 21 yr old track prepped M5 around Snetterton, showing many a newer car their heels..

The Coupe is far from dead, to say a VXR / Cupra / ST are suitable alternatives and ( PRETTY ) is madness .. they're hatchbacks with bodykits and fizzy engines ( ST aside, sounds crackin ) . When they hit 12 years old, I doubt as many will exist in proportion to the Coupe at 12 yrs old due to the electronics used !

I love all cars, to ringfence yourself to one make is ridiculous.. they all have something unique to offer, I'd have another 5 series tomorrow if I needed it ( to replace the c4 picasso say ), doubt the coupe would leave my ownership though It was as much fun to drive as a Coupe, but in a different way, a competent cruiser, but scared hot hatches when allowed

Anyways, put the tar brushes away, this forum is getting like Rolf Harris in an oil spill...

Got about three posts down then zoomed to the bottom - so sorry if I'm repeating what's already been said.

BUT...

I owned two Coops for nearly six years, did around 60,000 miles and apart from one hose which 'Tourqueitalia' handily sorted cos it happened virtually on their doorstep, had no problems at all. Credit for this to the previous owners and SuperRog)...

You reap what you sow - there are good uns about that have had time and effort put into them which still give their owners a buzz. Buy an older, cheaper car and you can be stung - it's the same with any marque. I found out with the first Integrale I bought years ago and I'm not bitter about it cos I had four good other Lancias before and after.

I followed Big Mike's Coop last night and still thought it looked great. Great road presence, great performance, top sound - and you hardly see any of them about (this coming from someone who drives something even rarer).

Fair play to you for posting and stirring up a passionate reply or two. Sorry you feel let down but, please, don't have nightmares...

I think you'll find it should be referred to as either 'classic' (optimistic) or 'future classic'...

Why do you care what audi tt/rx8 drivers think? At least you have the confidence and balls to do your own thing and not be a sheep/follow the crowd.....???

I'm not sure about worrying what anyone else thinks tbh, but I can see where crissy is coming from. If they were still making them, I might have bought another, but things move on so quick! New cars are now so much "better", and I don't mean that to be nasty, it's just progress.

Loved the coupe and wanted to keep it forever, but every dog has it's day and I think the sun is setting for lots of owners now.

If anyone has a proper minter, keep it and it'll soon start going up...as for the rest.....

New cars are not 'better', they are safer, have better ride quality and economy but i also find the majority of modern cars horribly dull, lifeless and they all seem to look the same as each other. I'm getting more and more into older/classic cars as they have so much soul and passion which is sorely lacking in modern cars, supercars etc aside. I drive many new cars for my job on a daily basis, and take brand new cars to customers homes etc, i find them all boring and same-old same-old, its such a relief when i climb into my coop on the way home at the end of the day and hear that 5 pot engine roaring :O) I really dont understand where crissy is coming from as the market value of a car matters very little now due to depreciation and the coop is one of the best looking cars i've ever seen alongside astons, porsches, ferrari's etc, far prettier and cooler that a dull tt and rx8. I still cant get over what incredible value for money these cars are as they look a million dollars and have so much kit in them. Anyway, rant over lol, i just love my coop to death.

I am on my 4th coupe and i have now had a complete knob full of keeping on top of them, i have only done 10k in 2 years and have spent a fortune on them, but i just love the noise they make on full boost, and as for performance they wipe the floor with most cars on the road, i know its time to get rid of them but i just have not got the will to live with out one even if it is on my drive doing nothing, its just nice to say i have one and not had.

My Coupe has only let me down once in the 2 and a half years I've owned it and that was only a pipe coming off the turbo

It's a daily driver and only used mainly for short, sh!tty journeys, but it's been very reliable.

It was a bit of a dog when I bought it, with no history, etc, etc and it's still a bit of a dog, but who cares, I love it.

It's an 11 year old car that needs a bit of money spending on it now and again, so what? I'd expect that with any 11 year old car.

I don't expect it to go up in value and don't expect it to pay me back for what I've spent on it either - which hasn't been much, to be fair.

I intend to keep my Coupe until the day it dies or until the Alfa GT's come down to about 2K

Until then, I'll treat it with the care and respect it deserves and I'm sure I'll get it back in return, as I have done so far

My coupes lets me down monthly - I have to run two of the sods to ensure I have a working car.

The amount I have spent on the cars over 18 months of ownership I recon I could of outright bought a 20K car.

However I would rather have burnt the cash !

I love the coupes they just hate me

well said mate

my coupe is a nightmare too, now it has burned ecu and some other electric probs. It was solid only for the first month I bought it. However I like its looks and performance a lot. And I like to drive rare unusual car. I`m unlucky with it but I`m stubborn and believe I`ll finally have 300hp reliable coop.

A side observation: in thirteen years I have spent perhaps a quarter of what I paid for the coupe in maintenance. In six months I have spent on daughters (slightly younger) punto slightly more than she paid for it.

Any old car will cost. Bits wear out. But if you like it and you can keep it going, why replace it with modern mundanity? the roads are generally too crowded to stretch even a 1400 these days; ultimate power and speed is so pointless an activity as to be beneath consideration in the purchase.

Bought my coupe (98 S reg) in Jan 2001

Its never broken down and other than routine servicing/replacing parts worn out due to age mileage, its only needed two injectors, two wheel hub/bearings and a coil pack

Its certainly cost me far less than buying a new car every three years

Aside, a chap at work has a brand new Yaris - less than 15k on the clock and its had the clutch replaced three times! (and various other problems - its only on the road 50% of the time)

So much for new car/Jap reliability - you can sometimes be unlucky

One of my mates runs 2 japanese cars just to be sure that most of the time at least one of them will be working. When mine was off the road I just walked to work instead.

The only problems I ever had were modification related, rather than general reliability.

I'm sorry, but I have to agree with Chrissy on a number of points. The reason I left Coupé ownership was because they are old, and they look and feel it too. I had no major breakdowns in either of mine and I spent the money to keep them maintained, but they're nearly all over a decade old now.

Yes they're fast, even by today's standards, but then so is a Nova with a red-top fitted and you won't catch me driving one of those. When I bought my first one they were still fresh looking, still had some value and felt unique. People knew you'd bought one because you'd thought about it. I could have easily spent the £7k on a decent Subaru or Evo, but I didn't. I wanted to be different. Unfortunately now, people aren't buying them for those reasons, but merely because you can't get more bang for banger money. The shine wore off for me and any niggles weren't quirks of the car that we're to be expected with Italian exotica, but because it's an old shed worth £1500.

Reading that back I realise it all makes me sound a bit of a snob, and I couldn't argue with anyone if they made that accusation. Unfortunately they just didn't feel special to me anymore which is why I've got the GT. I know it's not as fast but in every other way it makes me feel special. The way it looks, the admiring glances, the nice comments. All things I used to get in the Coupé but that had dried up in the last couple of years.

I know there are a lot of genuine owners out there that will look after their cars, keep them regardless and fair play to you all. If they make you happy then that's what being a petrolhead is all about. I have no doubt the Coupé will come out the other side of this, but it's not going to be for many years yet.

I own a 16 year old Mazda RX7.

The engine under the bonnet is probably considered one of the most fragile powerplants to make it into a production car.

Yet there are still thousands of them on the road and people are more than happy to continue keeping them that way, because they are great cars and will always be great cars wether they were built yesterday or are 50 years old.

The Fiat Coupe is a great car. Think of all the other dross that was in production when it first came out, and try and guess how many of them are now new cans of Heinz Beans. Most of the "throw away" cars being produced today can look forward to the same thing in 15 years time because if people moan about maintaining such a simple car as the Coupe, what will be it be like with the over complicated nonsense attached to many of the ordinary systems on a new 5-Series or Vectra?

Comparing an old 20vt to a new fast hatchback is pointless. Name me any "performance" car (please dont try and say that cooking 3-series, Mondeos or Audis fall into this bracket) that after 12-13 years, numerous different owners and 80-100k miles is going to be completely fault free with no major maintenance required. It just does not exist. Do you honestly think that in over a decade that the thousands of Focus ST's on the road will drive exactly the way they did when they drove out of the factory? I think not.

I used to be a car salesman, I have driven many different cars, ranging from a 1972 7.2 "Hemi" Jensen Interceptor to a 2006 Mercedes S500 with a 123hp Modified Smart Car in between. I have owned many performance cars, one of them being a 330hp 1998 Fiat Coupe. Now i have the car i mentioned at the start. Both of them rank much higher in my standing than a Megane CC (yes i have driven one). At the end of the day i have settled for the car that provided me with the biggest feeling of happiness and excitement whenever i look, drive and repair it. Some people buy a car because they can drive fast in it, some buy a vehicle that impresses people and some couldnt care less as long as it moves. Its all down to what you want from your "car" and it sounds as if you want something that feels new and needs no attention to get the best out of it, maybe a good comparison would be someone who prefers a new build flat over a 1920's cottage, both have their pros and cons.

If i had the choice in 1996 of a new Fiat Coupe or a new ST/VXR/GTI or any comparable "modern" performance car, i would pick the coupe every time.

A well sorted coupé that has been looked after shouldn't give too many problems. By problems I mean the real show stoppers, not the odd little niggle here and there. If you maintain it well then it's going to be fine. Nigel's car is a perfect example for the simple reason he does 20-30,000 miles a year in a very fast coupe and in terms of pure mechanics what goes wrong?

My coupe is very fast, indeed it's about to get a little faster, but more than this it looks fast. Only yesterday, a chap walking by in the car park said out of the blue "Nice motor", the kids on their bikes riding past later stopped and chatted. I live in a nice part of Bristol, these are not your "fast n furious" fanboys, they simply see a fast looking car that looks nice. I see it too, I recently had the pleasure of being followed by my very own coupe. The headlights were on as dusk approached, the nose was set low looking poised and ready to strike. More than this it exudes a sophisticated charm, enough to cause grown men and women to circle the car trying to find out what it is (no badges )

Quite simply, there are some rough as sh** coupes out there, but the really nice ones... well, they are still something special.

If you don't like coupes leave, bye.

Brewster - I agree if the coupe no longer feels special to you, then yes its time to leave

As for £1,500 sheds on the road - I'll give them less than 2 years before they are all broken beyond economical repair.

Is it likely that a person buying a £1,500 coupe is going to have or be willing to spend the £100's required for a new cambelt, oil cooler & pipes, radiator, suspension - all jobs which, if they havent all been done, need doing asap (and who's going to sell you a coupe for £1,500 with all this lot already done?)

You cant run a coupe on a shoestring or it will break and you cant cut corners if you want to modify a coupe - both have been proved many many times on this forum

I know my coupe is very well maintained and, having done all the '10 year old' jobs (oil cooler & pipes, 2nd cambelt, radiator, manifold, suspension etc.) I fully expect my coupe to give me another 5 years without any major expenditure.

Why not, I did?

Low mileage Coupe 20vt bought a few years back now.

I didn't spend a great deal of cash on mine at the asking price when I bought it. I knew the oil cooler pipes were corroded, and manifold would need a replacement, and exhaust would need to be replaced too, and the all important cambelt change. Plus a few other less important parts needed doing.

But, they were all replaced and repaired. And now, like many others on here, the Coupe is in far better condition than it ever was, both mechanically and cosmetically.

But again, isn't that the difference between the car-enthusiast, and just a car-owner?

Exactly - your "£1,500 shed" is no longer a £1,500 shed as you've probably spend £1,500 getting it back into good condition

My post was more aimed at people who buy a £1,500 shed, thrash the crap out and wont or cant spend the money doing the required jobs - those coupes will soon be off the road

Coupes owned by enthusiasts will continue for a long time yet and still look good compared to most modern cars

I've owned my coop since May 2008 and havent had a single problem with it, all i've done to it is taken it for a full service and i just check the oil, coolant, tire pressures on a regular basis, it runs superbly, i cant believe how well it runs actually, very impressed :O) Only thing i have is a slight squeal on cold start up but this only occurs in cold weather, never does it in the summer, probably the starter motor staying engaged or a belt needs tightening but otherwise abs bullet proof :O)