Hi.. I have couple of questions.

I wish to know whats the maximum power that I can run on 2.0 20vt with standard internalns (not forged). Engine has been reffited with brand new parts (oil pump, new bearings, piston rings, gaskets, belts etc..)

Setup I'm gonna be running is GT2871R (trim48, a/r.68), FMIC, Walbro 255lph, full Supersprint, 3" DP.. I expect ~350HP at 1.5b

Now, I'm wondering Is there any other thing that has to be changed? Injectors? FPR?
Will the head gasket hold the boost?

Also it's gonna be mapped on unichip. Should it be mapped ontop gtec1 or gtec2 or anything else?

Well.. Any suggestion is well met.

Thank you in advance!

And yea..

Whats AFR and EGT I should watch for?

Thanks.

i think that is has been said the standard internals can take around 310-320bhp max ???

AFR - Air Fuel Ratio and EGT... not sure.

Hmm reading this, from 16vt workshop sticky.. It doesnt really stand..
"Turbo Upgrades - when upgrading to a bigger turbo please keep in mind that standard pistons are generally expected to only handle up to 300hp-320hp"

Mate has 16vt with std pistons (running bigger inj., cosworth turbo..) and car shows 338WHP at dyno. Car is now running good for year or so.

Problem is, I have no one to give me advice on 20vt.

Misspelled.. I know whats afr&egt. I was thinkg what values should I watch for. Whats the maximum egt and WB?

350 is just starting to push your luck on a 20VT. with that turbo the torque is also likely to be pushing your luck somewhat

John..

What advice would you give me then?

Other mate has 20vt and gt2860r also mapped on unichip. Result is 285hp at 1.3bar and 305hp at 1.5b

I dont neceserily have to push 350hp but would like to have round 320-330. I think gt2871 is next logical step if i dont want to go for high boost.

So any advice?

Thnx

You could run low boost circa 1 - 1.2bar max and make 330-350bhp on a 2871R. At 7000rpm you only have to be making 263lbs/ft of torque to make 350bhp which would be barely tickling the turbo.

On a good setup you could be hitting 1.2bar at around 3200-3500rpm and hold it to the redline with peak torque around 300lbs/ft. It won't guarantee that the engine will survive but the torque, rpms and boost are modest therefore it is not without merit.

With STD internals that turbo is the wrong choice. You can't push it because the ringland will crack over time or a rod will bend. Why do people always wanna slap a big turbo on STD internals?

You will be disappointed have a read here:
http://www.fiatcoupeclub.org/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=586911&fpart=1

Or you could look at Sparco who has made 393bhp & 299lbs/ft at a peak boost pressure of 1.2bar (dastek dyno) on a 2871R

Sparco’s is very good but has all the right mods to support the GT2871R minus the forged internal but I'm sure we can all agree that he is sitting on a time bomb. If he did go forged he could be pushing 400ft/lb like Nigel.

Daeron, Sparco is a rare example of a car that has lasted. There have been far too many here that has gone pop with much lower power figures. I would set the bar at 320BHP & 290 FT/LB so either go forged or get a smaller turbo is my advise.

which turbo?

what housing, what trim?

thnx

My car is currently running 321hp with a GT2860RS A/R 0.64 and stock internals, running without any problems...

Does the way the torque is delivered affect the life of the bottom end? Does Sparco have a well set up EBC & a live map?

From the above thread, it seems WF is running a PRV at over 300bhp. I'm guessing the torque curve could be much smoother with an EBC, helping to prolong the life of the std internals.

I'm just curious as it seems the bottom end max torque/bhp varies from just over 300bhp to just under 400bhp. I'm wondering what Sparco has had done to keep his engine alive under the 2871R?

me too

The other thing that reduces the life will be high rpm lift off, as it can cause problems with the small-end of the rods. That could happen on a 300bhp coupe with a 7500rpm limiter tho.

Welformed's Coupe is still going, but there has been quite a few 20VT piston failures recently, including my own! Which was mapped, with an EBC and also aided by Aquamist!

Really depends on how much of a risk you want to take. I was quite lucky in that a piston went. If a rod goes its pretty much bye bye engine!

A smoother torque curve would probably help in preserving your rods, but heat/det are the usual causes of piston failure. I had an EGT gauge to keep an eye on temps, you don't really want it to be going over 900 degrees.

I would also choose a different turbo over the 2871R, it will come on boost quite late without headwork!

I've just h2ypr's Thread on engine failures:

Interesting Read

and you know what happened to Ross' car?

My view is that anyone with over 300bhp on standard internals is running on borrowed time.

The only way to have that sort of power reliably is to replace the pistons and rods with quality forged replacements. I know of 4 people on this forum who I predict will have engine failures probably due to ringland failures by christmas.

I'll probably do another group buy after summer is over...

It depends on the way you drive you're car...

there isn't much point in having a 300bhp+ car if you aren't going to use it occasionally IMO

Spill the beans, who?

you're one of them

Really?

Better stop downshifting to 2nd at 90mph then!


</joke>

Are all the common types of engine damage more likely to happen the higher the revs?

A 2871 s the wrong turbo for that power level.

Go for a 0.64 housing GT28RS. I have been running over 300 bhp on standard, but balanced internals for a good while now - but I have not gone over 1.35 bar of boost, and the car has been mapped with safety in mind.

if you pop a G28RS on a coop and a plug and play chip it will go bang - this is either through too much boost, or poor fuelling - or a combination of both.

Unmapped car....

good point!

WF's coupe is not running over 300bhp though is it?

You need to think about making the engine as efficient as possible before ramming more boost through if you want reliability on the standard internals - free flowing exhaust, headwork, etc.