hi

i was thinking about getting some hardpipes made up for my FMIC (timpyeon's one)

spoke to a local exhaust place, but they would only do stainless steel, with a 1.7mm thickness, which is pretty heavy.

so, now im going to speak to a local engineering firm to see if they can make me some from alloy.

anyway, whats the best route to use? currently i have the 'standard' route, which i believe is identical to the pro alloy route, where both pipes from the FMIC run around the nearside of the radiator, As im going to have the pipes custom made, is it worth trying a more direct route for the turbo to intercooler pipe?

also, as im going to speak with the engineering place anyway, is anyone else with either timpyeon's or pro alloy FMIC's interested in hardpipes ?

(this will likely move at a snails pace as i have lots of upcoming commitments however.)

Cheers.
Alex

I’d go straight from turbo to intercooler inlet without going all the way across and back again. Fair enough the pipes stick down a bit further but I’ve been running like that for years and only problem I ever had was when I ran over a ratchet mechanism from a cargo strap lying on the road and it cut one of the pipes. But the car was stupidly low at the time. Other than that I think the pro-alloy route from cooler to throttle body is about as short as you’d get without removing stuff.

If you’re having basically all alloy apart from joining to the intercooler it’s probably a good idea to go with hump hose joiners to allow a little bit of extra movement.

could you get them to design a pipe which goes under the radiator in a flatter wider shape, not round? I'd be interested in something like that if it didnt impede the flow.

I think it would shave 300rpm off the spool up time over the standard pro alloy route.

/\ i'll ask, going to see them next weekend, probably have a join in the fmic to throttle body pipe as well to make it easier to assemble / disassemble.

I already done hardpipes on mine and used a more direct route, i'll take some pics later and post them here...

Has anyone noticed any difference using 2.5'' or 3'' pipes?

Does anyone fancy doing alloy pipes for standard intercooler, i was wondering if any companies already done them but couldnt find any.

GreyFurby, i can tell you in advance that with the use of smaller diameter pipes and with the route i've chosen, I didn't notice any increase in lag comparing with the standard intercooler, so i guess it helps if you use 2.5''...

Optional routing for the IC hardpipes:

http://www.softss.com/pretender/coupele/IC1.jpg

http://www.softss.com/pretender/coupele/IC2.jpg

http://www.softss.com/pretender/coupele/IC3.jpg

You just have to be aware that this is a very hot zone... so it's better for you if you insulate the exhaust and the IC pipes, theres also the oil coller pipes running along with the IC pipes...
The positive results with this routing is reduced lag...

Dude, you have some crazy piping there

I've read somewhere that insulating the exhaust isn't a great idea - partly I suspect because you want the gasses to cool down asap, but insulating the intake pipes is must (even though you lose all that shinyness)

Bish, Bosh, Bumpy

Iv'e bumped this up insted of starting a new thread

Im going down to prospeed this week,

to get a hard pipe kit made up for the pro alloy fmic, from the cooler to the throttle body.

then in my own time make up a shorter route from the turbo to the intercooler

I gather there is no real bhp gain as i understand,
but i gather it should reduce lag and increse spool up say by 200rpm

Ben

Now that is the way to route your piping!

I decided against taking the boost pipe from the turbo under the radiator, because of how low it is on other cars that have it.

Maybe someone like pro alloy could design a radiator with a bit of a bite taken out of it so you could pass a boost pipe through, insulated of course, and kind of bend the water channels round the top.

My Pro alloy route is the standard longer one and I have no lag at all and I get 0 psi at 1300 rpm in 5th and 17 psi at 2400 rpm.......

I would'nt of thought it would be lower than the strapping eye under the car

Ben

It did on the cars I've seen it on. It was half way between the bumper and the road, which would not be so much of a problem if it was further back, but it's right at the front.

Deleted.

Been busy with work

I'll try and get some progress made on this in the next few weeks

Ben

Suggestion for evo type fmic

turbo exit

fmic inlet

ic to tb

All great there guys but this will be for the
proalloy fmic

Ben

Make the pipe up then find an IC that fits!

Well, spent the morning on this and made good progress in making up a prototype

i just need to get a few bits next week and finilse the
design and then get it made up in a one piece pipe

Ben

Wow thats low

Ben

Progress may be very slow this week as i've hurt my hand in
work

but i'll plod along and give a report on the weekend

Ben

Since its only me on this thread

Miniupdate.

The prototype is almost complete and im going to put a take off in it
for my boost signal then its off to be fabricated
into a one pice pipe

modifeid and strenghtened rad support

under it goes

imho no lower than the strapping eye

prototype

When made up it will be slighter higher which is evan better

Ben

I'm watching with intent Ben, might go down this route if and when I get turbo-custard back on the road

Keep it up

Dan

today decided mount my FMIC.



still did not make the pipes, I will mount Wednesday. the pipes are equal those of pretender.

Gave the pipe a little trim and its done

Its now down with my mate Charlie at Prospeed exhausts whom
should have it done by next wednesday

I'll take some more exact measurments next week, but the
pipe as it is, is a little over 1/2' higher than the
strapping eye

So basically today i've been painting the front of the
coupe since everything is apart

Painty

Ben

what thickness pipe are they going to be benny? i spoke to a few exhaust companies, but they wanted to use 3mm thick!!!!

They dont use 3mm thick pipe

They use the same thickness as the rest of my intercooler pipes

You got to bear in mind that Prospeed exhausts also speialise in intercooler pipes and custom induction pipes, so they know what they are doing

Ben

cool, id be interested to see the finished product benny, they arent that far from me, even with crossing the bridge, so may end up taking a trip abroad in the new year.

Bit of progress today by painting and reasembiling the lower rad support

painted

close up

fitted

Ben

welldone benny,, keep up,

Got my pipe made up

pipe

Fits very well, need to reassembly it propely tomorow and
give it a thougher test on the weekend

More pics

propped by foot

another veiw

another veiw 2

head on

Boost take off added

Ben

nice one benny, i like the little ridges to keep the silicon pipes on,

nice one, am getting mine done like that for my evo intercooler.

Just spotted this and by coincidence mines booked in next week to get some hard pipes made up

Bit of weld does wounders

Ben

Bear this in mind, everyone who i've seen who runs a evo
cooler with there pipes under the rad, they are extremly low

The only way at the mo is/what i've done is to modify the rad support

Ben

its been modded to fit the coop, cant see the pipes causing too much trouble. touch wood!

Touch wood also

I'll post some pics tomorow when the coupe is back together
and take some measurements as well

Ben

did you use stainless steel pipes?

Thin gauge stainless pipe, not the same as you would use
for a exhuast.

Ben

Benny you getting the lower pipe made up at pro speed?

Good job done!
Will consider the same if I ever do the FMIC route.

Yep charlie at prospeed did my pipe, though i did make up a protype for him to copy

Ben

Right then



Fitted it finally this morning pic

head on


Few more to show clearence,

1

2

3


Only went out for a quick drive this morning and the difference is actually noticeable

Bearing in mind i run a 64/ar gt28rs, i'm now getting positive boost under 2k and full boost well under 3k and
the main thing its on torque/song around 2.9/3k



I'll give a better write up tomorrow with figures

Inmagine what it will be like when i do the rest of the
pipes

Ben

Took the coupe out this morning for a thougher test

First impressions were the coupe felt a little more responsive low down, and seemed to want to get into
positive boost all the time regardless what gear i was in

A few tests were performed

In 5th gear at 1000rpm WOT foot down i measured

Positive boost at 1450rpm

Came on boost( 1.3bar) 2850rpm

And what i felt, came on torque roughly 3000/3100rpm
previously came on torque 3250rpm.

Measurements

The original route from the turbo to the intercooler was

147cm long and has 5 bends in it

The pipe i made up has 2 bends in it and is 51cm long.

I will be making the rest of the induction pipes into hard pipes so keep watching



Ben

Very tidy job Benny

Cracking sucess if i say so myself

< waits for a repliy >



Ben

I would be interested to know why Pro Alloy and Phil (was it highwayman originally??) chose that pip route if such a shorter one was possible.

The longer route keeps the pipes level with the bottom of
the intercooler, which is fair and makes it plug and play

My route is dramacticaly shorther with less bends,

but mine requires modification to the rad support and it sits all of
a 1/2' lower than the original

Come the end of January i'll see on the RRd if it does improve spool up

Ben

Getting my hard pipe made (insert sexual pun here) up as I type this, so I'm wandering around Cardiff freezing my nips off. Will upload some pics when I get back later!

Nath

my pipes...



I got some of lag. in runing when squeeze the clutch when the rpm's down to 700rpm and 900rpm's the back.. the lag I think I will settle with more pressure to turbo. what can I do?

my material:

filter box K&N
Dump bailey dv26
FMCI
stock Turbo
G-tech1

in future:

g-tech2
gt2860rs
walbro 255ltrs
exhaust pipe 70mm
fpr

great job benny.will be following your progress

Cheers Zonta

Hopfully when i get the top pipe made up and get it checked,
i might offer them in a GB

Ben

Ben

orcale i think you will find its down to running lower preasure but also the main thing is the air flow as you need to fill the intercooler and on the standard turbo it will take longer as it flows less air hence more lag.
so really need a bigger turbo
on the plus side by having the fmic you won't really get much power increase as you don't have the air at peak to make more bhp but you will make your torque as it will have colder air with more oxgen in it so you will get a higher torque read out but it will be at a higher rpm because of the lag.

Yes peanuthead, I see that the only solution will be replacing the turbo. thanks for your help. I will leave soon and later replace the turbo, and there must be good.

thanks...

Nath - looking forward to the pictures.

I assume the Coupé is back up and running now then?

Yeah mate its back on the road and running better than ever, just need to fine tune the Greddy to get the spikes ironed out.

I'll take some pics of the hard pipes in a min and upload them later on when i get back from town.

Tiny update,

gave the car a good 100mile run last sunday on the sw meet and in all hounesty it felt really good

So this has given me the enthuseasim to get the other pipe
made up before xmas

Ben

Thought i'll ask,

is there any intrest in these pipes as if not many people are ,

i will do it to my own configeration

Ben

since there is apparently no intrest i've done the top pipe to my own spec and space requirements

hopfully all done in thw new year

Ben

This must be like when you get old, eg; talking to yourself

Anyway the top pipe is now being fabicated and might have it back before xmas if not then the new year

Ben

be interested to see it benny. didnt put down the interest in case my i/c is slightly different (i dont have a real PA one, one of timpyeons copies), i guess the pipes need to made up for each car individually in that case

ive seen also that the compressor housing outlet on mine isnt the same angle as on yours, im having problems with silicon hoses getting burnt through by the downpipe., im still debating whether to:

a) get a custom 3 hole outlet adapter made and keeping the turbo how it is, then having hard pipes made up for this
b) rotating the turbo compressor, and having hard pipes made up.

either way, the car is a dialy driver, so any work would have to be completed in 1 day.

are you getting the top pipe made all the way up to the throttle body, or are you retaining the plastic bit which bolts to the rocker cover?

im sure that you have the best route, by going under the rad. i think i'll have to get a s/h rad support to play with as well.

There is a slight possibility that the one timpyeons fmic's
are slighty different to the pa one

As for clearence you will only have maybe 1' of play either
way if you rotate the compresser housing due to keeping the
wastgate rod straight

I have considered that everyone's setup is slighty different, so if i can make up a set of pipes w/ the shortest route and
w/ the miniamun of bends and its backed up w/ RRd graphs
it will give everyone an alternative route with added benifits

As for the top pipe its going straight from the throttle body to the intercooler

All of 2 bends

Ben

Tiny update,

the top pipe is being put into a jig to be fabricated today,

so there is a possibility it might be done tomorow

Ben

Nice sig Ben... whose is the red one

mini update,



The original length of the route from the outlet of the ic
to the throttle body is roughly 137cm and consistes of 5 bends.

hopfully when mine is done in the new year it will be a little shorter and only consist of
2 bends

Ben

Picking the induction pipe up next tuesday

Will post up some pics and how it fits next week.

Ben

sounds good!

**update**


All fitted this morning

Personaly a little bit of a tight fit but it seems ok

I need to buy a better fitting lower silicon hose, but temporaly i have used one of the exsiting pa one's

I have'nt run the car yet, but will give it a run tomorow
and see if there is a difference

pic

pic

pic

Ben

nice benny, i like it.

the bottom hose looks a little compressed on the bend, but as you already mentioned a better fitting hose will sort that.

werent you tempted to get that bend made in stainless too? then just use a straight silicon joiner, or hump hose? or is the extra silicon needed to counter any movement?

That lower hose is a little compressed but a new silicon one should do the trick,
as i dont really want to cut up the original one

Regarding the bend, i did have it in stainless but everything was a bit ridged

so i cut it off and made up the difference with a bend to allow a bit of flex in it all

So there is a few little niggles which im not happy with but
i hope to sort these out by the 31st powerstation rrd day

Anyway today i actually and hounestly managed to test the hard pipe on my friends private road which is a change

Spool up i would say the simaler as before but when on boost it pulled quite hard and effortlessly

So into 4th gear, foot down the coupe took off for a slit second i thought i was in 3rd then i suudenly realised i had to change gear

Apart from pulling much better when on boost i found the boost controller needed less gain to hold the desired boost.

So all in all quite succesful, just thoses few niggles to sort out

Ben

has anybody else had this done? I'm looking at going to that place in Wales, Pro-Speed exhausts? I'm hoping to take the pictures on this thread to get something custom-made, anybody got any advice on it, is this a good place to take it etc? Is it just the route from the end of the intercooler to the throttle body that I'm after, as per the 3 pictures?

Here's mine: some pics in this thread, http://sfk.ibk.se/forum/showthread.php?s...p;pagenumber=17

Many thanks Per, I think I've read all the way through that thread and the pics are great, some good stuff in there, can't make head or tail of the words, I'm sure there's some inspired tuning knowledge but it's all Greek to me. I think yours takes a similar route to Per's, out and straight up to the throttle body.