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4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
#547949
23/02/2008 03:26
23/02/2008 03:26
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jowster
Unregistered
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jowster
Unregistered
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The beautiful and powerful front wheel drive coupe is ridiculously cheap at the moment - so buying another one in order to convert it into a 4x4 coupe integrale seems quite sensible, as you end up with a gorgeous pininfarina coupe with stunning all weather traction, handling and great ‘off the line’ performance as well.
In the past, a friend and myself have converted a coupe to 4x4 using the Lancia integrale running gear. We are now seriously contemplating converting another coupe to 4x4.
This time, we intend to take photos of the build and provide a detailed and practical how-to guide. We also thought we would gauge the interest in creating a 4x4 coupe integrale conversion kit (to go with the how-to guide).
Before we start, we need to decide if we convert the 16vt or 20vt.
The easier (and hence cheaper conversion would be using a 16vt coupe), so that gets my friends vote. However, I like the 20vt tuning potential and challenge of doing this on the 20vt, but which version would everyone else prefer to see a practical hands-on “how-to” guide for?
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: ]
#547951
23/02/2008 03:29
23/02/2008 03:29
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Kenno
Unregistered
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Kenno
Unregistered
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I say go with the 16vt. There are large cost implications to tuning the 20vt beyond a certain point.
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: ]
#547979
23/02/2008 03:53
23/02/2008 03:53
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Nobby
Unregistered
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Nobby
Unregistered
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And tuning a 16vt is cheap? It would probably be easier for you to do another 16vt, but a 20vt 4x4 would be unique, and I'm sure they are far more 20vt on here than 16vt. I'd love to see a 20vt 4x4, but a kit would easily be out of my price range and most others. Good luck. I look forward to your build
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: ]
#548015
23/02/2008 04:41
23/02/2008 04:41
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Kenno
Unregistered
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Kenno
Unregistered
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And tuning a 16vt is cheap? Never owned one so I wouldn't know. It just seems like there are more performance parts available.
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: ]
#548024
23/02/2008 04:53
23/02/2008 04:53
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jowster
Unregistered
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jowster
Unregistered
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So far we have;
2 votes for 16vt 4x4 2 votes for 20vt 4x4
BTW the parts don’t have to be too expensive.
You need the running gear (I just got a used front & rear diff and prop for £200) - which we will use for space modelling. I have sourced a Dedra Integrale for £600. This has all the running gear + the rear sub-frame that we need.
On top of that you need some drive shafts, new fuel tank and modified exhaust. The 4x4 on the16vt just bolts on (even the mounting holes fully align). It should cost less than forged parts for the engine.
The 20vt turbo is more of an engineering challenge, as it doesn't line up as neatly - but it should be possible, and shouldn't cost the earth, just take some extra careful engineering. The sump will need modifying (dry sump is a possibility but the costs go up) and the mounting holes will need some adjustments.
Any more votes, would you like to see a 16vt 4x4 or 20vt 4x4 coupe “how-to guide and test car available”?
Once the car is complete, we would be more than happy for careful fccuk members to take it for a road test.
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: ]
#548035
23/02/2008 05:12
23/02/2008 05:12
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warnysouth
Unregistered
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warnysouth
Unregistered
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Well I would love to see a 20vt 4*4. The fact that it presents more of a challenge is a good reason why you should do the 20vt and not the 16v
Last edited by warnysouth; 23/02/2008 05:13.
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: darmtb]
#548070
23/02/2008 05:43
23/02/2008 05:43
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DanielTheManual
Unregistered
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DanielTheManual
Unregistered
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A vote for the 20vt 4x4 here! Perhaps a mod could add a poll?
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: ]
#548075
23/02/2008 05:50
23/02/2008 05:50
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garsenior
Unregistered
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garsenior
Unregistered
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16vt gets my vote, would love to give this a go
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: ]
#548080
23/02/2008 05:57
23/02/2008 05:57
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jowster
Unregistered
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jowster
Unregistered
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So far, that's;
5 votes for 20vt 4x4 guide and test car 4 votes for 16vt 4x4 guide and test car
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: Jimbo]
#548081
23/02/2008 05:57
23/02/2008 05:57
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h2ypr
Unregistered
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h2ypr
Unregistered
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See tbh tho, wouldnt a 4x4 coupe, loss some of the appeal? Its gonna be slower in a straight line, its still gonna be front heavy aswell.
I would be interested to see it done, but dont think its the holy grail.
Ross
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: ]
#548090
23/02/2008 06:27
23/02/2008 06:27
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ScOtT22
Unregistered
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ScOtT22
Unregistered
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but the only thing the coop is really lacking is the cornering ability, so making a 4 wheel drive version would surely make it the ULTIMATE coop!?! what would touch it if this could be done without costing in excess of +40K???
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: ]
#548091
23/02/2008 06:28
23/02/2008 06:28
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ScOtT22
Unregistered
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ScOtT22
Unregistered
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: ]
#548102
23/02/2008 06:50
23/02/2008 06:50
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deanspoors
Unregistered
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deanspoors
Unregistered
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: ]
#548103
23/02/2008 06:51
23/02/2008 06:51
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Promise
Unregistered
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Promise
Unregistered
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I'm curious... I'd like to see a T20 4X4
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: barnacle]
#548104
23/02/2008 06:52
23/02/2008 06:52
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MattW
Unregistered
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MattW
Unregistered
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Not that I'm biased at all, but five cylinders is one too many. Four wheels, four cylinders. Five gears, five wheels including the spare, five cylinders! Vote for 20VT from me.
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: ]
#548105
23/02/2008 06:54
23/02/2008 06:54
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ScOtT22
Unregistered
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ScOtT22
Unregistered
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: ]
#548107
23/02/2008 07:01
23/02/2008 07:01
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ScOtT22
Unregistered
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ScOtT22
Unregistered
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jowster, maybe i'm being silly....but if you have done the conversion before now, then where is the original that you put the integrale running gear onto...if someone out there is driving that car then i would be v. scared if i were a porsche/maserati/any other overly priced "supertourer"
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: ]
#548122
23/02/2008 08:27
23/02/2008 08:27
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mitch
Unregistered
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mitch
Unregistered
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jowster, maybe i'm being silly....but if you have done the conversion before now, then where is the original that you put the integrale running gear onto...if someone out there is driving that car then i would be v. scared if i were a porsche/maserati/any other overly priced "supertourer" There is more than one 4x4 coop around, non in the uk though. There isnt a 4x4 20vt I dont think. Edit: And as nearly all 16VT's are sadly dead or dieing, the 20VT is the only way to go if you are serious about a kit Jowster
Last edited by mitch; 23/02/2008 08:31.
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: ]
#548126
23/02/2008 09:49
23/02/2008 09:49
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Scooby
Unregistered
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Scooby
Unregistered
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There is more than one 4x4 coop around, non in the uk though Yes there is, coupe_integrale on here
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: Jimbo]
#548134
23/02/2008 14:21
23/02/2008 14:21
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Jonny
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Jonny
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You've already proved you can do a 16v so my vote goes for a 20vt. Ditto
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: ]
#548136
23/02/2008 14:46
23/02/2008 14:46
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jowster
Unregistered
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jowster
Unregistered
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Just to clarify; The 4x4 coupe we did is coupe_integrale's car on this forum. This started off as a "gleam in our eyes" about 4 years ago. At that time, no one had done a 4x4 coupe conversion, but we thought that it should be possible. Armed with a tape measure we went and purchased a Dedra Integrale. We took a 16v n/a coupe (with a broken engine) and transplanted the integrale running gear (with some mods) into the coupe. At the time, we didn't know if this would work or fit. With a little engineering it did! We made things extra hard for ourselves, as rather than put another 16v n/a in the coupe, we tried to save ourselves some money and transplanted the twin cam 8vt Lancia engine (which required a load wiring mods and replacing the engine management ECU with the Lancia unit). It would have been easier to start with a 16vt coupe - but hindsight is a wonderful thing. This was an adventure into the unknown. It was an exciting “experimental car”. As such it had a 'home made' exhaust and a used fuel tank in the boot. Coupe-integrale has finished this off to a high standard. He has had a purpose built tank made and got the exhaust manufactured properly. So I think he is the only person in the UK to have a 4x4 coupe. The traction is great, it is wonderfully neutral, and not a hint of torque steer – basically lovely to drive. The worse thing we did was to sell it – money was tight at the time. However, we can start again and add a little more power this time There are 20vt 4x4 coupes in the wild - but none in the UK. I believe there's one in Greece (but this is a drag car - no exhaust, very light). A couple of guys in Germany are putting some together. They are going for 500bhp 20vt 4x4 coupes pic1 pic2pic3 They haven't finished yet, I'm in contact with them. Juergen is doing a great job of modifying the sump, and we are helping each other out when we come up against engineering obstacles. Anyway, the score so far is; 5 votes for 16vt 4x4 coupe guide and test car 9 votes for 20vt 4x4 coupe guide and test car
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Poll: 4*4 - 16v or 20v base?
#548137
23/02/2008 14:48
23/02/2008 14:48
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,568 Berlin
barnacle
Club Member 18 - ex-Minister without Portfolio
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Club Member 18 - ex-Minister without Portfolio
Forum Demigod
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,568
Berlin
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Re: Poll: 4*4 - 16v or 20v base?
[Re: Saint]
#548144
23/02/2008 15:29
23/02/2008 15:29
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inkblack
Unregistered
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inkblack
Unregistered
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20VT
More power to drive all 4 wheels and more of them still alive to be converted.
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: ]
#548152
23/02/2008 16:13
23/02/2008 16:13
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paul26982
Unregistered
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paul26982
Unregistered
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Well I would love to see a 20vt 4*4. The fact that it presents more of a challenge is a good reason why you should do the 20vt and not the 16v agreed would love to see
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: ]
#548164
23/02/2008 16:40
23/02/2008 16:40
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Matty
Unregistered
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Matty
Unregistered
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Another vote for the 20VT from me.
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: ]
#548169
23/02/2008 17:25
23/02/2008 17:25
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joel
Unregistered
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joel
Unregistered
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: ]
#548220
23/02/2008 19:20
23/02/2008 19:20
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owl10
Unregistered
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owl10
Unregistered
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: ]
#548227
23/02/2008 19:43
23/02/2008 19:43
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fiat131turbo
Unregistered
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fiat131turbo
Unregistered
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this is a 20vt 4x4,11 second quarters,not a coop though,it's the coops dad! http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=RrHSKM290js
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: ]
#548352
23/02/2008 23:38
23/02/2008 23:38
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ActionHank
Unregistered
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ActionHank
Unregistered
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By the way - that Tipo is BONKERS! (be quicker if he turned his lights off though )
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: ]
#548372
24/02/2008 00:19
24/02/2008 00:19
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mottles
Unregistered
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mottles
Unregistered
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Marcowind owns this italian 4x4 he posts mainly in the rr and tuning section.. some pretty impressive figures and times see here
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: ]
#548385
24/02/2008 00:49
24/02/2008 00:49
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,618 Oswestry
Genic
My life on the forum
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My life on the forum
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,618
Oswestry
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: Genic]
#548394
24/02/2008 01:14
24/02/2008 01:14
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,887 Cumbria
flyingcustard
My life on the forum
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My life on the forum
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,887
Cumbria
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as already said many times the 16vs are dying out whereas 20vts are plentyfull and cheap, it can be done to a 20vt so go for it(6 speeder pls )
Plus/LE33
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: flyingcustard]
#548497
24/02/2008 05:17
24/02/2008 05:17
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kostascoupe
Unregistered
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kostascoupe
Unregistered
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in greece there are 2 20vt 4x4
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: ]
#548519
24/02/2008 05:55
24/02/2008 05:55
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Aah4Fuxake
Unregistered
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Aah4Fuxake
Unregistered
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And just for fun, here is a pic of Jay (Coupe Integrale)'s engine bay. Crazy 4 x 4 coop
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: ]
#548654
24/02/2008 19:22
24/02/2008 19:22
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Vas
Unregistered
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Vas
Unregistered
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from memory
20vt 4X4 conv. means modified sump, shifting the engine on its mounts by a few cm, some work on mating it to the 5speed box, modified downpipe and a few more bits at the front I don't remember. Donor is usually a dedra or 155 not a grale (but I don't remember why!)
I'm tempted in doing mine up now that the engine rebuilt project is over and I have some decent power, but not sure yet. The tank issue is bugging me tbh...
V.
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: ]
#548968
25/02/2008 04:12
25/02/2008 04:12
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,295 Sandhurst
Begbie
Ex El Presidente
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Ex El Presidente
I AM a Coop
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,295
Sandhurst
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Donor is usually a dedra or 155 not a grale (but I don't remember why!) Because the Dedra and 155 are a direct fit, the grale isn't (longer wheelbase i think, so would mean modified propshaft and then there is the mounting the diff at the back) Oddly enough, I also voted 16v
Your car is Usain Bolt with wellies
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: Begbie]
#549010
25/02/2008 05:16
25/02/2008 05:16
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j999evo
Unregistered
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j999evo
Unregistered
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I am lucky enough to have an integrale evo as well as the Coupe, and I have often wished for the running gear of the Lancia in the body of the Fiat, to make the perfect car.....
20VT gets my vote, as this engine is just so much nicer! Please keep us posted on this project! DBP
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: ]
#549708
26/02/2008 02:08
26/02/2008 02:08
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MrB
Unregistered
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MrB
Unregistered
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Hmmmmm, I could get rid of the Quattro for winter use then!!
Wouldn't really mind either, but I suppose my slight bias would be toward the 20VT.
4WD fun in a coupe, the perfect car??
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: ]
#550196
26/02/2008 20:30
26/02/2008 20:30
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,289 Malvern
coupe_integrale
My job on the forum
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My job on the forum
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,289
Malvern
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Just stumbled onto this thread, have been turned to the dark side for the last couple of weeks working on a VW mk1 caddy.
Can't praise enough jowster and Ed for their work putting together the 4x4 coupe. It really is a cracker of a car.
Ok so it will probably loose a few car lengths to a 20vt on a straight bit of DC, but when it comes to twisty B roads it'll hold it's own. Not to mention the added the huge fun factor and security in wet/hazardous conditions.
A few bits still need tidying up. I'm planning to make up a new boot floor to cover the fuel tank and then finally the bodywork will be sorted out.
Any one in the gloucester/hereford/ross area wanting to have a spin in the car get in touch, will try to come along to some meetings this year too.
Fiat Coupe Integrale
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: coupe_integrale]
#550525
27/02/2008 02:46
27/02/2008 02:46
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MrB
Unregistered
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MrB
Unregistered
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Hmmm, might take you up on that offer when I'm next down seeing the inlaws.
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: ]
#550536
27/02/2008 02:59
27/02/2008 02:59
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,446 Essex
evo_number_one
My job on the forum
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My job on the forum
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,446
Essex
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I am lucky enough to have an integrale evo as well as the Coupe, and I have often wished for the running gear of the Lancia in the body of the Fiat, to make the perfect car.....DBP I too am fortunate enough to own an Evo as well as my LE and have almost the same hankering....... What we both need to add to our little 'collection' is one of these...... HYENA
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: coupe_integrale]
#550552
27/02/2008 03:10
27/02/2008 03:10
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jowster
Unregistered
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jowster
Unregistered
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Coupe_Integrale: I like the integrale picture, it is a superb car to drive and still the only 4x4 coupe in the UK! and to boot it's based on the the most successful rally car ever; Lancia Delta won the World Rally Championship constructors titles 1987,1988,1989,1990,1991 and 1992. With drive to the front wheels linked through a free-floating differential; drive to the rear wheels via a 56/44 front/rear torque-splitting (or later 47/53 for better tarmac performance) Ferguson viscous-coupling-controlled epicyclic central differential. Then at the rear a Torsen (torque sensing) rear differential. All Italian wonderful innovative stuff - no wonder it was so successful (and still in the latest PS3 games such as GT5). As the delta stopped at evoluzione III, I think you should name yours; Pininfarina Sports Coupe Integrale Evoluzione III Evo_number_one: Auto Integrale have a Lancia Hyena (a delta based coupe) - the Hyena sells for about £45K BTW. It has a Zagato body, and Lancia evoluzione 1 engine and running gear (just like coupe-Integrale's car), however I think the Pininfarina styled Fiat Coupe is far better looking. The 20VT is winning the vote so far. Ed has agreed to go ahead with the 4x4 Integrale conversion that wins the most number of votes (we will count the votes on Friday evening)
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: ]
#550610
27/02/2008 04:40
27/02/2008 04:40
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,446 Essex
evo_number_one
My job on the forum
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My job on the forum
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,446
Essex
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As the delta stopped at evoluzione III... Jowster, Thanks for the link to the Hyena. Have only ever managed to sit in one, and while I would love one I have to agree that the FIAT Coupe (inerior styled by pininfarina) is far better looking. Think you'll find that the Integrale stopped at Evo II. Evo III was a German media misconception, erroneously labelling either the 16v as an Evo I, or the "Final Edition" (all finished in FIAT Ducato van red) as an EVO III. Different Kraut publications list either of these as a 'III'. Lancia never introduced an EVO III. E_N_O
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: ]
#556463
06/03/2008 03:43
06/03/2008 03:43
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warnysouth
Unregistered
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warnysouth
Unregistered
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What would the front/rear torque balance be on a converted coupe if you used the Dedra/155 running gear?
Thanks
W
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: ]
#558562
08/03/2008 20:53
08/03/2008 20:53
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jowster
Unregistered
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jowster
Unregistered
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Front/rear torque split of Dedra Integrale is 56/44 Front/rear torque split of 155 Q4 is 47/53
You can change them...but both work well.
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: ]
#558655
08/03/2008 23:39
08/03/2008 23:39
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warnysouth
Unregistered
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warnysouth
Unregistered
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I guess finding a donor would be v.hard.
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: ]
#558801
09/03/2008 03:05
09/03/2008 03:05
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jowster
Unregistered
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jowster
Unregistered
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There is a 155Q4 on piston heads - far too much money for a car that has done 100K miles...I think so anyway.
Dedra Integrale's are cheaper (and just as good) but impossible to find in the UK (I think we may have used the last one in the UK on the last coupe Integrale 4x4 project!). But there are loads in Europe (and much cheaper the 155Q4's). I have a contact in Germany. He supplies lots of bits to the German Fiat Coupe Forum.
He has got me one; 1000 Euro's 70K miles - not bad, at least I think that's a good price. I will sell the engine, turbo etc, which will make almost the entire cost of the car back - so it will be free.....even better.
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: ]
#558897
09/03/2008 05:49
09/03/2008 05:49
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Spee
Unregistered
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Spee
Unregistered
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Well, my vote is for the 16v, not just because I have one, but because it is a legendary engine and has proven itself mated to all manner of fantastic vehicles.
Love the noise of the 16v, it sounds even standard, like a proper sports car, almost Ferrari esq despite the lac of cylinders, although the 5 pot is kind of meaty sounding too!
I have Guy Crofts legendary Twin Cam tuning book if you need any info from it.
Gareth
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: ]
#601568
29/04/2008 23:59
29/04/2008 23:59
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Spaljeni
Unregistered
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Spaljeni
Unregistered
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<moderator: please do not post items for sale here. Use the appropriate 'for sale' topics.>
Sorry i am unable to post it in sale topic because i am new here. But not new to coupe turbo or any lancia turbo engine
But as i wrote i have all parts for conversion and its a q4 drivetrain not a dedra integrales Greets Klemnen
Last edited by Spaljeni; 30/04/2008 00:56.
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: stan]
#601618
30/04/2008 01:39
30/04/2008 01:39
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Spaljeni
Unregistered
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Spaljeni
Unregistered
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HAve done it and i am waiting for anwser but no problem i have time
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: ]
#601627
30/04/2008 01:46
30/04/2008 01:46
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AJ
Unregistered
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AJ
Unregistered
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I've voted 16v as well, then I could make the 145 4wd to complement the 16vt lump.
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: ]
#601638
30/04/2008 01:57
30/04/2008 01:57
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Spaljeni
Unregistered
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Spaljeni
Unregistered
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My friend has allready made a 145 q4 when he sorts out my 155 q4 than and my other two frineds q4s well finish it so its ready for sale now it runs but its ugly.
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: ]
#601696
30/04/2008 02:58
30/04/2008 02:58
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AJ
Unregistered
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AJ
Unregistered
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We've seen a couple of different ones on the 145 forum, one even used the trailing arms for the rear setup!
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: ]
#601741
30/04/2008 03:35
30/04/2008 03:35
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COLEIO
Unregistered
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COLEIO
Unregistered
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wow this is gonna be a great project, personally id go for the 20vt imo its a better car and you have already done a 16vt might as well take it to the next level. just out of curiosity when doyou aim to have this finished???
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: ]
#601780
30/04/2008 04:17
30/04/2008 04:17
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bulldog5046
Unregistered
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bulldog5046
Unregistered
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Fantastic! would even help towards me converting the marea to 4x4 should i be able to afford it in the future! i voted 20vT
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: Danhgt]
#601884
30/04/2008 14:00
30/04/2008 14:00
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Spaljeni
Unregistered
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Spaljeni
Unregistered
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no its fairly simple nothing to fabricate. All you have to do is to make place in the back where the standard tank lies. This is for the 16v engine. I personaly wouldnt make a 20vt there is nothing to gain but the fact that you have a 20 vt everything else is more complicated needs more fabrication........
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: ]
#601924
30/04/2008 15:10
30/04/2008 15:10
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Morat
Unregistered
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Morat
Unregistered
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Got to be 16V, even if just for the integrale heritage. The lack of horses isn't going to make much difference in the long run as I can't imagine someone who goes to the trouble of a 4x4 conversion is going to keep the car standard under the bonnet I've never bothered even chipping my 16VT because I reckon its a total waste of time on a FWD car, if it was RWD or 4WD I'd change my mind. Make the conversion as cheap and simple as possible and save as many coupes as you can so you can get a bigger market and prove the concept. All you 20V owners should keep your nice 20v examples mint and buy an old 16V for the project, they're not exactly expensive! Then when we're all happy with the idea of the 4WD coupe and there's some experience of the issues involved - do a kit for the 20V afterwards!
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: ]
#601927
30/04/2008 15:15
30/04/2008 15:15
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Morat
Unregistered
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Morat
Unregistered
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Actually, it just so happens that I have a 16VT which is coming to the end of its economic life.....
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: ]
#602789
01/05/2008 17:25
01/05/2008 17:25
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Spaljeni
Unregistered
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Spaljeni
Unregistered
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: ]
#602808
01/05/2008 17:52
01/05/2008 17:52
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warnysouth
Unregistered
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warnysouth
Unregistered
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The 16v has already been done! So why do it again? And how is there nothing to gain by doing a 20vt conversion? If I come into some money and the concept had been proven I'd go for a 400bhp 4*4 20vt!!
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: ]
#602883
01/05/2008 18:55
01/05/2008 18:55
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Spaljeni
Unregistered
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Spaljeni
Unregistered
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Look my friend is going to 700 hp on his 16v i dont see any point in making a 20 vt . At 16v it all fits you have a 4x4 and I am sorry but i dont care if someone allready has a 4x4 16v coupe i would build the car for me not for others. 16v is more tunable weight distirbution is right all components fit Its more reliable than makeing a 20vt engine fitting the 16vt tranny. At 16v conversion you taje the suspension down you place in the 4x4 kit that i am selling conect everything put a gas tank in it and you are fiarly done. If you want to have a 20vt 4x4 than oyu have to fit the engien to the tranny stick everything in the coupe supsenison wont gfit anything wont fit. for 1400 you get everything that you need to fit a 4x4 into a coupe than you buy a gas tank and if you have a fast mechanic or you are able to do it you have a 4x4 coupe in one week of work.
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: ]
#602995
01/05/2008 22:21
01/05/2008 22:21
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warnysouth
Unregistered
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warnysouth
Unregistered
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Look my friend is going to 700 hp on his 16v i dont see any point in making a 20 vt . At 16v it all fits you have a 4x4 and I am sorry but i dont care if someone allready has a 4x4 16v coupe i would build the car for me not for others. 16v is more tunable weight distirbution is right all components fit Its more reliable than makeing a 20vt engine fitting the 16vt tranny. At 16v conversion you taje the suspension down you place in the 4x4 kit that i am selling conect everything put a gas tank in it and you are fiarly done. If you want to have a 20vt 4x4 than oyu have to fit the engien to the tranny stick everything in the coupe supsenison wont gfit anything wont fit. for 1400 you get everything that you need to fit a 4x4 into a coupe than you buy a gas tank and if you have a fast mechanic or you are able to do it you have a 4x4 coupe in one week of work. The original theme of this thread was someone asking *other people* which they would like to see. Seeing as the 16v conversion has been done, a lot of people have suggested the 20vt because its more of a challenge and it doesnt already exist :).
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: ]
#603063
02/05/2008 00:33
02/05/2008 00:33
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Spaljeni
Unregistered
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Spaljeni
Unregistered
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Look my friend is going to 700 hp on his 16v i dont see any point in making a 20 vt . At 16v it all fits you have a 4x4 and I am sorry but i dont care if someone allready has a 4x4 16v coupe i would build the car for me not for others. 16v is more tunable weight distirbution is right all components fit Its more reliable than makeing a 20vt engine fitting the 16vt tranny. At 16v conversion you taje the suspension down you place in the 4x4 kit that i am selling conect everything put a gas tank in it and you are fiarly done. If you want to have a 20vt 4x4 than oyu have to fit the engien to the tranny stick everything in the coupe supsenison wont gfit anything wont fit. for 1400 you get everything that you need to fit a 4x4 into a coupe than you buy a gas tank and if you have a fast mechanic or you are able to do it you have a 4x4 coupe in one week of work. The original theme of this thread was someone asking *other people* which they would like to see. Seeing as the 16v conversion has been done, a lot of people have suggested the 20vt because its more of a challenge and it doesnt already exist :). By my knowledge it exists in hungary. The guy who made maps for our Group A impreza told me that it raced rally cross.... And anotherone is being built whit my drivetrain in Malasya ( the owner still ows me money !) and im shure ther are more so your only argument is pointless :). I am not talkig about who will you impress i am talking about what is the best the most efficient and cheapest solution to the problem. Regards Klemen
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: ]
#603217
02/05/2008 05:03
02/05/2008 05:03
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TipoBoy
Unregistered
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TipoBoy
Unregistered
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It's not the cheapest solution if you have to buy a 16VT first though! There may be 20VT owners who might consider making their cars 4wd if there was a kit or set of instructions and parts to source available.
John
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: ]
#603220
02/05/2008 05:25
02/05/2008 05:25
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suba
Unregistered
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suba
Unregistered
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16VT is actually heavier than the 20vt - not sure about the disribution of weight though. This kind of project is going to be a one off though isn't it? There are not many coupe owners that are willing to spend more than a couple of grand on tuning.....I admire you for going for this from an engineering perspective, but in no way is this going to be a commercial excersise. Therefore pick whichever car you like and go for your life and keep us posted. I'd like to really see you go to town and get some active yaw control in there as in the evo's....now there's a challenge for you. Good luck with what ever you decide to do.
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: ]
#603285
02/05/2008 13:27
02/05/2008 13:27
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Spaljeni
Unregistered
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Spaljeni
Unregistered
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Well i hope you all know that the drivetrain form an 155 q4 fits to all mounting points of a coupe suspension. Fabrication is only needed for mounting the propshaft. Front and back bridges fit directly bolt to bolt on the chasies of a coupe. Dont understand me wrong my drivetrains fit directly to a 16v but you could modify to fit to 20 v i am just staiting the cheaper faster more reliable way. Allso the q4 drivetrian has the torsen rear unit not open one as does the dedra.
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: ]
#603534
02/05/2008 18:12
02/05/2008 18:12
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warnysouth
Unregistered
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warnysouth
Unregistered
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By my knowledge it exists in hungary. The guy who made maps for our Group A impreza told me that it raced rally cross.... And anotherone is being built whit my drivetrain in Malasya ( the owner still ows me money !) and im shure ther are more so your only argument is pointless :). I am not talkig about who will you impress i am talking about what is the best the most efficient and cheapest solution to the problem.
Regards Klemen
Well get us some information on it then! And there is more to life than efficiency! W
Last edited by warnysouth; 02/05/2008 18:13.
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: ]
#603946
03/05/2008 01:37
03/05/2008 01:37
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Spaljeni
Unregistered
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Spaljeni
Unregistered
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I know that you are talking to a owner( smell the irony because im not driveing it ) Of an alfa 155 Q4. But looking at it as a race car mechanic 16v is the way to go it is as simple as that but as i said my kits fit them both so if i sell one its the same for me i am just trying to save the man a lot of nerves! Greets Klemen
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: ]
#604053
03/05/2008 03:17
03/05/2008 03:17
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suba
Unregistered
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suba
Unregistered
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I agree that if you are going for a big power engine then the 16vt is the way to go. For a start it is very hard to get a reasonably priced aftermarket ECU that can handle the 5 cyl properly here in the UK....
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: ]
#604081
03/05/2008 03:51
03/05/2008 03:51
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,887 Cumbria
flyingcustard
My life on the forum
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My life on the forum
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,887
Cumbria
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Rob40 runs his 2.5 20vt on a DTA ecu.
Plus/LE33
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: flyingcustard]
#604298
03/05/2008 15:09
03/05/2008 15:09
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Spaljeni
Unregistered
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Spaljeni
Unregistered
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My friend run his on 550 hp on stocl eletronics and now on 700 hp he will still use the stock computer. im talking about the 16v engine
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: flyingcustard]
#604311
03/05/2008 15:49
03/05/2008 15:49
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suba
Unregistered
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suba
Unregistered
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...and he probably has a custom trigger wheel to make it work....
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: ]
#604504
03/05/2008 23:56
03/05/2008 23:56
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Spaljeni
Unregistered
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Spaljeni
Unregistered
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: ]
#604660
04/05/2008 04:39
04/05/2008 04:39
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,895 New Zealand
Saint
My life on the forum
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My life on the forum
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,895
New Zealand
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I have seen this car spec over on Guy Croft forum, has he got the GT35R on it now? - very impressive this is his car right? http://www.guy-croft.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=10894x4 has to be an advantage at that sort of power
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: Saint]
#604735
04/05/2008 13:37
04/05/2008 13:37
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Spaljeni
Unregistered
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Spaljeni
Unregistered
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Now he has ripped it appart and is building it to 700 horses hopefully he is finished soon . WHit this kind of horses 4x4 is the way.
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: ]
#768066
08/02/2009 15:09
08/02/2009 15:09
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leugim_21
Unregistered
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leugim_21
Unregistered
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i want to see a 4x4 20VT
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: ]
#820071
24/04/2009 16:00
24/04/2009 16:00
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Abas
Unregistered
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Abas
Unregistered
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Hi guys I am currently a Fiat stilo driver from greece, but I am planning a project based on 4wd coupe. Info that I 've already gathered: 1."plug and play awd" can be taken from 155 Q4, dedra (not delta)integrale, tempra SW 4x4, dedra SW 4x4. 2.there is a 20v 4x4 running in greece around 450hp and working very well!! 3.you have to sacrifice the visco at the front. then you will have free slip diff at the fron - ferguson clutch for rear distribution - torsen rear diff
Info requested: 1.is it necessary to switch to 5speed gearbox? 2.does anybody knows another way to have a limited slip diff at the front while in 4WD? like in Lancia delta S4 (non viscous LSD-ferguson-torsen)??????
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: ]
#820231
24/04/2009 20:17
24/04/2009 20:17
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,285 Manchester
GraemeC
Competition Level
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Competition Level
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,285
Manchester
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Please do the 20VT - I NEED a 20VT 4x4 on my drive!!!!
It is hard to understand how a cemetery can raise burial rates and blame it on the cost of living
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: GraemeC]
#821857
27/04/2009 21:33
27/04/2009 21:33
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Spee
Unregistered
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Spee
Unregistered
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Would be good, watching with interest!
G
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: ]
#821956
28/04/2009 00:49
28/04/2009 00:49
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GT_SEB0
Unregistered
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GT_SEB0
Unregistered
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correct me if im wrong but fitting a 4wd system to either a 16v or 20v turbo wont lose hp as the 4wd will use the hp alot better and get it to the floor over 240bhp a fwd becomes unstable and is the recomended power to use but a 4wd system would use all the bhp as its supposed to be god knows why fit didnt make the LE a 4wd then it would be a unique car but 16vt gets my vote maybe a dying bread but has heritage and could be converted in less than a week as the dedra rear beam is a direct bolt on all you need is a new fuel tank and new exhaust long live the 16vt
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: ]
#821959
28/04/2009 03:48
28/04/2009 03:48
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,694 Midlands
MCMike
Club member 2095
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Club member 2095
Forum is my job
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,694
Midlands
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You will lose some power through extra transmission losses running 4wd, and also the extra weight will hamper acceleration compared to 2wd at higher speeds - however traction will be massively increased so you can use more of the power more of the time, wet or dry - so off the line (for example) a 4wd car will go like a rat up a drain pipe.
1972 Triumph Stag 1984 Alfasud TI 1999 Fiat Coupe Turbo LE 2005 350Z
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: MCMike]
#822005
28/04/2009 09:19
28/04/2009 09:19
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,289 Malvern
coupe_integrale
My job on the forum
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My job on the forum
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,289
Malvern
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The extra weight is one of the main drawbacks, it is quite noticeable when jacking the car and is on the list of things to try and sort out after the suspension.
I don't really want to go down the stripping out everything but a pair of seats and the dash as I want to keep the car as standard looking as possible so options might be pretty limited and also expensive.
Fiat Coupe Integrale
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: coupe_integrale]
#917811
14/10/2009 10:23
14/10/2009 10:23
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TheAudioGuy
Unregistered
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TheAudioGuy
Unregistered
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is this conversion still happening? iv got a 20vt going cheap
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: ]
#917997
14/10/2009 14:49
14/10/2009 14:49
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Morat
Unregistered
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Morat
Unregistered
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Nice to read all those "16V are all dead or dying" comments back at the top of the thread. Have people backed off on this now that CarlT has taken his toys home?
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: ]
#959283
31/12/2009 22:36
31/12/2009 22:36
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Tadas
Unregistered
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Tadas
Unregistered
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Hey guys. I was searching for info about Fiat Coupe 4x4 conversion and i found this forum sorry for bringing back old thread, but I have some questions... Does Lancia Delta Integrale running gear fits Fiat Coupe? I read that you used Lancia Dedra (Integrale???) parts... And what parts EXACTLY do I need from donor car to do this conversion? Thanks Tadas.
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: ]
#962550
07/01/2010 15:48
07/01/2010 15:48
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13ad13oy
Unregistered
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13ad13oy
Unregistered
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Lol I have all the parts sitting, just need to empty the garage of rusty volkswagen and get started!
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: ]
#1090810
24/08/2010 15:40
24/08/2010 15:40
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,174 Reading
alexjames
Enjoying the ride
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Enjoying the ride
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,174
Reading
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whatever happened to this?
Ex Fiat Coupe Plus 20vt Electric blue | 62 trim hybrid | Flea mapped
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: ]
#1162442
27/01/2011 08:48
27/01/2011 08:48
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burnbike
Unregistered
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burnbike
Unregistered
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Lol I have all the parts sitting, just need to empty the garage of rusty volkswagen and get started! did you finish the project?
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: ]
#1162451
27/01/2011 09:58
27/01/2011 09:58
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,289 Malvern
coupe_integrale
My job on the forum
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My job on the forum
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,289
Malvern
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I've a feeling he sold the Dedra a few months back...
Fiat Coupe Integrale
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: Hoops82]
#1449747
24/09/2013 16:36
24/09/2013 16:36
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KBT
Unregistered
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KBT
Unregistered
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I was going to vote 20v...
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: ]
#1449903
25/09/2013 19:21
25/09/2013 19:21
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jowster
Unregistered
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jowster
Unregistered
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An update:
Unfortunately neither the 20VT nor 16VT Coupe-Integrale came to fruition.
Ed (with a little help from me) created the original Coupe-Integrale concept - the Lancia 8vt powered one on here...
However, we did go to the trouble of getting another Dedra Integrale (and drove it all the way back from Germany to the UK) with the intention of creating a 16VT or 20VT coupe Integrale. We took off all the 4x4 Integrale parts we needed for the conversion, then Ed stored them in his shed. The rest of the Dedra went to the recycle centre. I've still got the original Dedra paperwork, as I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do with it - as its German.
So we have the parts (somewhere in one of Ed's sheds). Ed wants to find a 16VT coupe - as the conversion would be very simple with a 16VT and nicely balanced. He really wants to find a 16VT with some good power mods (~300BHP) and perhaps a broken gearbox (so it's cheaper). However, I know deep down he currently doesn't have the time to start/complete this conversion....
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: ]
#1478887
14/03/2014 01:16
14/03/2014 01:16
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pauloalberto
Unregistered
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pauloalberto
Unregistered
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Hi everyone, Im from Brazil, and i need help. I want to turn my fiat coupe 20vt in 4x4. I found in Germany the gearbox and front/center differential of Lancia Delta Integrale 8v. I can made my Fiat Coupe 4x4 with this parts? please help me
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: ]
#1478929
14/03/2014 11:40
14/03/2014 11:40
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nissansteve
Unregistered
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nissansteve
Unregistered
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Does anyone have the rear set up cluttering up their shed? Id be interested in the parts
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: ]
#1480336
23/03/2014 17:46
23/03/2014 17:46
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 129 Zagreb, CRO
Jopa_zgd
On a journey
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On a journey
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 129
Zagreb, CRO
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Hi, my friend and I are doing a 4x4 conversion on his bravo 20vt and my coupe 20vt. This is not an easy job. on first view everything fit bolt on (almost), but when you start doing it you see that there is a lot more problems. we have done the drivetrain fitment and now dealing with oil sump.. that will bi tricky but we have here a man that is making sumps from nothing so his design will be taken. 2 Pauloalberto - delta gearbox and diffs will be ok, but you need front and rear subframes, driveshaft, driveshaft support plate... I can offer you a complete dedra integrale drivetrain. Everything you need for a swap. Or even a complete kit for a coupe 20vt. So you dont have to think anything, just bolt on and drive Cheers, Josip
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: ]
#1480388
23/03/2014 22:24
23/03/2014 22:24
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nissansteve
Unregistered
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nissansteve
Unregistered
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A project thread on this would be good. Have you any pics?
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: ]
#1480553
24/03/2014 20:47
24/03/2014 20:47
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Wombat
Unregistered
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Wombat
Unregistered
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Appreciate this is an old thread, but very interested in it.
I have an Alfa 155 Q4, which has the same running gear as the Dedra Integrale bolted to the Lancia/Fiat 16valve turbo lump (16v Integrale engine).
having driven many 155s, from 1.8 8v through to 3.0 24v conversion, the Q4 makes an interesting proposition. Although it is heavier, and looses some power through the 4WD system, it is much better balanced due to more weight over the back axle, so the handling really does stand out (as well as the traction). Easy to get the power up as well, and the 4WD system is strong up to a point.
Also interested in how the 4WD system bolts to the 20VT. Not that I would ever strip my 155 (it was Simoni's press car used for parade laps during the 1994 BTCC season), but quite interested in using it as a template for building a 4x4 Coupe!! That would nicely balance the 20VT 155 I will be building next year!!
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: ]
#1480635
25/03/2014 12:01
25/03/2014 12:01
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,289 Malvern
coupe_integrale
My job on the forum
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My job on the forum
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,289
Malvern
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As Josip says you can use bits from a Delta Integrale but what you really need is a Dedra or Alfa 155 Q4 which are both quite hard to find (and justify breaking!) in the UK. I can't comment on what you need to bolt it to a 20vt but as I understand it at the least you need a custom sump and possibly altered engine mounts - though I've a feeling Joe (FCSS) said they weren't really necessary. Plus all the other bits from above cars then custom fuel tank, exhaust, handbrake setup etc. My build thread shows some of those bits. Fiat Coupe Integrale
Fiat Coupe Integrale
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: ]
#1498477
14/07/2014 10:10
14/07/2014 10:10
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Brickfoot
Unregistered
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Brickfoot
Unregistered
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Anyone know if the dedra fueltank fits on the coupe? Never heard of anyone trying the dedra tank, only the q4 wich doesent fit.. Been a while since any activity on this thread iknow
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: ]
#1498834
16/07/2014 04:13
16/07/2014 04:13
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Brickfoot
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Brickfoot
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Your kidding me? Where does it fit? How big is it? Are you absolute positive the dedra one doesent fit? The one behind the axle?
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: ]
#1506772
08/09/2014 13:56
08/09/2014 13:56
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thunderball
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thunderball
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Hi Guys, Does anyone know if the Dedra Integrale gearbox fits onto the Fiat Coupe 20V engine. I'm planning to convert a Lancia Dedra into an Integrale but haven't managed to locate a good 16V turbo engine. Thanks
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Re: 4x4 coupe conversion guide and kit
[Re: ]
#1527090
24/02/2015 00:24
24/02/2015 00:24
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connorj
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connorj
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Hello, I am new to this forum and I was wondering of anyone could give me some advise on the 4x4 conversion of the 20vt coop? How ever I am 16 Yeats of age and due to college I can only work 3 days a week so i will struggle with funds
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