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Re: to get 300bhp for a 16vT
[Re: crgracing]
#540443
12/02/2008 18:17
12/02/2008 18:17
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eldinho
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eldinho
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FMIC = Frount Mounted Intercooler SIP = Straight Induction Pipe
Think Saint just means the Exhaust from the turbo!
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Re: to get 300bhp for a 16vT
[Re: crgracing]
#540678
13/02/2008 00:13
13/02/2008 00:13
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jtm
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jtm
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someone there said that replace with 20vt and lots of mods.. what for ? all you need is : 3" exhaust, fmic, evo chip, higher fuel pressure ( about 3.2-3.4bar ) bigger turbo. boost about 1.2-1.3bar, thats it. no need for 20vt engine.. you can get over 700hp with 16v also
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Re: to get 300bhp for a 16vT
[Re: Saint]
#540746
13/02/2008 01:41
13/02/2008 01:41
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bravoturbo
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bravoturbo
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NGK B8EGV plugs are reccomended
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Re: to get 300bhp for a 16vT
[Re: Saint]
#540753
13/02/2008 01:44
13/02/2008 01:44
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Vas
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Vas
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I'm resisting adding my opinion on this thread for too long so my 2eurocent:
Built a 3inch downpipe (throw away the 90deg elbow off the turbo!), remove the cat and continue with the 60mm stock exhaust (keep the mid box if you wish and if it's not rusted).
Fit the evocars chip (and most likely the 3bar FPR) Do the wiring mod so that your pump sends what it should to the motor.
Get some sort of boost regulator (drop the stock ebv or buy the 30USD ADELCO - see another thread)
Free flow airfilter on drilled airbox.
16V tipo inlet cam (check exhaust cam for wear)
Should see you at 260 at 1.2bar or there abouts.
A turbo from a cosworth will help you reach (the arbitrary limit of) 300bhp. HAVING SAID THAT: you need suspension overhaul, probably front wishbones, topmounts, shocks, lowered springs. You also need decent disks and pads all around. Ah, and soon enough you'll need a decent clutch as 16VTs are hard on the clutches when tuned.
Good luck
V.
PS. when I see/hear of a 20vt lump reaching 900-1000bhp THEN I'll accept that the 20VT is equal to a 16vt engine. Till then and as far as tuning potential is concerned, I'm afraid that 20VT is way behind. So let us all get on with what we have/chosen please without all these smart comments!
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Re: to get 300bhp for a 16vT
[Re: ]
#540773
13/02/2008 02:11
13/02/2008 02:11
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eldinho
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eldinho
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Blueflame isn't available off the shelf for 16VT! I had to get my custom designed
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Re: to get 300bhp for a 16vT
[Re: ]
#540775
13/02/2008 02:13
13/02/2008 02:13
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,289 spain
crgracing
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My job on the forum
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OP
My job on the forum
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,289
spain
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dont now what i would do without you guys!!! well just by changing the air filter of the coop it whont pass the MOT in spain if its not omologated you will not pass it a friend of mine has a audi a 3 and hat s3 seats fitted in and it didnt pass the mot thats how imbecils we are in spain so hopefully the cops dont stop me otherwise they will have to chasse me probably you guys will se me on tv soon ( just jokin ) well i have a demontweeks catalogue and saw a power boost valve in the article it says: if you are equipped with electronic fuel injection a power boost valve will give you an instant increase of power ( instant what exaclty do they mean)you will notice as soon as you snap open the throttle and instant because its a simpe bolt on or remote kit fitting directly replacing your existing fuel pressure control valve. its ideal for road and competition cars, unlike standard valves wich are permanently preset the power boost valve is ajustable to allow you to vary the fuel pressure as further performance enhancement.this facility is mainly intended for modified engines where the demand of fuel my be grater.
and whats the difference with a fuel regulater and a fuel pump? if a can regulate the fuel shouldnt need the pump? because buying the evocars chip i get the 4 ngk plugs the ones saint said and a 3 bar fuel pressure regulator
so what i need is : evocars chip 4 plugs ngk power boost vales? fuel pressure regulator fuel pump upgrade front mount intercooler ? blow off valve boost controllers?
is this what i need for about 230hp or can i eliminate something?
thanks learning to much from you guys
Last edited by crgracing; 13/02/2008 02:14.
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Re: to get 300bhp for a 16vT
[Re: Saint]
#540858
13/02/2008 03:20
13/02/2008 03:20
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ryangt
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ryangt
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arnt 4 pots better than 5 because it will be a more balanced engine !!
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Re: to get 300bhp for a 16vT
[Re: ]
#540893
13/02/2008 04:11
13/02/2008 04:11
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Gralecoupe
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Gralecoupe
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More cylinders = more power, take a look at F1 over the years for proof. I think that it is because the 20VT is much younger than the 16VT so it hasn't had enough of the aftermarket developement time, the 16v was also used in the integrale for years too and there are lots more off-the-shelf parts available, there will be a day when the 20v overtakes the 4 pot. It has to said though that I know nothing of 5 pot tuning, are there any large stumbling blocks which are preventing it from going further at the moment?
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Re: to get 300bhp for a 16vT
[Re: ]
#540954
13/02/2008 12:34
13/02/2008 12:34
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Vas
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Vas
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gralecoupe: - tuningwise "difficult" ECU
- thinish liners not well supported so on high pressure applications tends to open up on top. Needs steel stubs to hold the liners nice and square (has been done in Brazil and Greece see old threads for photos)
- comparatively badly designed ports (OK there is tuning potential there realised by Barbz )
- hydraulic lifters
- And most important, engine was never raced (officially) production numbers are low (coupe, kappa, few bravos), iirc got caught up on legistative issues on emmissions and by the time ppl understand and are willing to invest there wont be any left
V. PS. sorry but I'm really pi55ed off seen irrelevant comments on the supposed "superiority" of the 20vt by ppl that haven't seen a fcuking engine open (let alone one next to the other). It's easier to get to 250-260 but it's also much more easy to kill it.
Last edited by Vas; 13/02/2008 14:00. Reason: added a few bits...
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Re: to get 300bhp for a 16vT
[Re: ]
#540965
13/02/2008 13:51
13/02/2008 13:51
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Gralecoupe
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Gralecoupe
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Well, no need for apologies, you're only putting your point across. I had always thought about starting up a thread on 16v V 20v, but figured it would have been done to death in the past. I always imagined it to be a stretched version of the four pot, but it seems there are many differences. The Ecu can soon be swapped - anyone seriously tuning the 16v ditches the OE one too. (no offence intended) Although remapping the P8 is still in its infancy. As you say, the liner issue has already been addressed, as have the ports. Anyone done anything with the hydraulic lifters? Presumably replacing them with traditional tappet buckets to allow it to rev better? I guess the rev limiting and liner strength issues are why some have gone for 2.4 conversions? Somebody somewhere will always find a way around a problem if it gets them further up the ladder or makes money! I guess that the fact that probably less of them were made and it is confined to just one car will always work against it though, the 16v engine has had more developement thrown at it also because in its original home you had the luxury of traction (to a certain degree) to cope with your extra power, I cannot imagine what a fwd Coupe would be like with 600bhp at the front wheels. It does sound bloody good though too. I think perhaps another thread needs starting as we seem to have drifted off topic......
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Re: to get 300bhp for a 16vT
[Re: ]
#540998
13/02/2008 14:59
13/02/2008 14:59
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,289 spain
crgracing
OP
My job on the forum
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OP
My job on the forum
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,289
spain
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really im optimistic with the 4 cylinder, last year i was att the ferrari museum and factory, and i saw one of the 4 cylinder engines a 1.400 litre engine with a turbo of the size of 2 shoe boxes and had over 1300bhp ok it was a ferrari engine but was used during the 80is and 90s speaking to an engineer about the coupe he said anything is posible if i whant 1000bhp for the car the biggest problem MONEY wich means that everything i mean everthing must be changed the only original part would be the engine bloc, also remeber asking him to do give the coop rear wheel drive because i dont really like the idea of front or 4 wheel drive and its posible only that the weight of the car wouldnt be balanced because the engine would fit in the back just how you take it out of the front.other option is spending a fortune tu adapt a porsche gear box but att the end of the day he said that anything is posible when you spend over 80,000 pounds or more.. thanks for the info guys
Last edited by crgracing; 13/02/2008 15:00.
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Re: to get 300bhp for a 16vT
[Re: crgracing]
#541029
13/02/2008 16:16
13/02/2008 16:16
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GT_SEB0
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GT_SEB0
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dont forget that the mitsucishi mivec engine is a copy of the lancia delta engine
you will need alot of work doing to a 16vt to gat it 300+ bhp but very doable
easier to buy another engine to woprk on as it will be in bits most of the time
forged pistons balanced con rods 16vt crank is all ready forged but you can take it out for re-balancing port and flow the head you could enlarge the inlet opening bigger butterfly larger inlet valves larger exhaust valves race or rally cams walbro fuel pump larger injecters fuel preasure regulater one big ass turbo custom manifold 2 options one with a external wastegate or not fmic evo intercooler pretty cheap and easy to install 3'' custom exhaust electronic boost controller bov or a d/v uprated brakes remap or a standalone ecu such as megasquirt
and to be safe fit new parts other than that such as a new oil pump new radiator brand new hoses etc
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Re: to get 300bhp for a 16vT
[Re: crgracing]
#541056
13/02/2008 16:50
13/02/2008 16:50
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jtm
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jtm
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forged pistons NO ! balanced con rods NO ! 16vt crank is all ready forged but you can take it out for re-balancing NO NEED ! port and flow the head FOR 300HP NO NEED ! you could enlarge the inlet opening bigger butterfly NO NEED ! larger inlet valves NO ! larger exhaust valves NO ! race or rally cams NO ! 325hp measured with standards. walbro fuel pump YES larger injecters NO NEED ! 325hp @ 3.4bar fuel fuel preasure regulater YES ! one big ass turbo NOT THAT BIG custom manifold 2 options one with a external wastegate or not NO NEED TO CHANCE fmic evo intercooler pretty cheap and easy to install YES ! 3'' custom exhaust YES ! electronic boost controller MANUAL DO THE SAME JOB bov or a d/v HMM.. uprated brakes YES IF RACING HARD remap or a standalone ecu such as megasquirt REMAP 100e finland, or EVO CHIP and RR DONE.
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Re: to get 300bhp for a 16vT
[Re: ]
#541077
13/02/2008 17:06
13/02/2008 17:06
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Vas
Unregistered
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Vas
Unregistered
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jtm: +1 gt_SEBO: your recommendations closely match what I've done but that's not for 300bhp but 400+ (currently 360fly with a v.conservative programming and at 1.2bar with a cosworth turbo, a mate with better cams and GT3076 got 400wbhp at 0.9bar). I think you are overspecifying that engine... stock injectors got me 320 (but at AFR13.5 ) before finishing @3.0bar fpr. No need for bigger valves unless you're aiming at 500+ V.
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Re: to get 300bhp for a 16vT
[Re: ]
#541130
13/02/2008 18:06
13/02/2008 18:06
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noise
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noise
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1st u should check your engine , that everything is in good conditions! u will never ever get 250horses with the original t3 turbo. (never ever means never ! ) . to get save 250+ hp u need a bigger turbo (eg. t3 super 60. this one will be good for 270 - 290 hp). forget the evo-chip (everybody here thinks, that it is THE chip .. but it isnt .. use the evo on the german autobahn and your engine is gone in 10 min) and get your setup live mapped !!
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Re: to get 300bhp for a 16vT
[Re: crgracing]
#541149
13/02/2008 18:34
13/02/2008 18:34
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jtm
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jtm
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sorry NOISE there are much cars with original turbo and 250hp !
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