Ive searched but cant find these anywhere on here?? has anyone got any ideas what to expect on a 20v turbo standard and then a comparison to a gtir hybrid running 1 bar
Matt

I know that a stock 20vt is 0-60 in 6.5 secs not sure about the 60-100. I don't think there would be all that much in it to 60 after fitting a gtir (with no other mods) but might be a slight difference from 60-100. To get the gtir in its sweet spot you want 1.3 bar with the added mods to go with it then theres a big difference.

Ash

oh yeh and a gtec 1! forgot to mention

I don't think to 60 there will be much in it afew seconds as with the gtec and gtir you will struggle with traction. From 60-100 there will be a bigger difference. But i all depends on the car really, every engine is different.
To get the gtir to really flow nicely you need other mods, but then it gets expensive.

http://www.fiatcoupeclub.org/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=147539#Post147539
Found sommat here!!

I think i may need to run more boost cos it dont feel to special in 4th and 5th!!

Standard car tested at 0-60 in 6 seconds dead by Autocar & 0-100 in 14.5

I think a Coupe running around 300bhp will probably do 0-100 in around 13 seconds

Fleas beast does it in under 10 IIRC !

I'm surprised that the extra 80bhp only equates to 1.5 seconds. I don't know why but I thought it would make it faster than that.

It's diminishing returns - you need progressively more BHP to make proportionally less improvement in time. 0-60 is always limited by possible traction

a 300 bhp coop will do a 1/4 in low 13's at a shade over 100mph - that's driven very well and launched very well. At close to 350 bhp when I had a go I could not get under 13.6!

Diminishing returns is very true

I did a 13.37 with 300bhp.

Five grand later, with another 100bhp, I'm a massive 0.48 seconds quicker up the quarter mile.

However, that's not what its about - few Coupe owners are aiming for standing-start performance. The performance through the gears once rolling is immense - I'm very close to Flea's performance - I reckon about 5 seconds 0-60 and 5 seconds 60-100.

Jeez...... bet thats an experience...

A G-Tech'd coop can do the 60 dash in just over 5.5 seconds, if you practice your launch, have great tarmac and just have a bit of luck!

I consistently managed 5.7secs to 60 3-up with my Novitec'd Coop.

As you all (and the rest of the world) know I managed my epic 13.9 @ a shade over 100mph with a gtech chip running 1.2 bar, so thats approx 240-250bhp, and a 13.9s 0-100 time. As above, 0-60 would be around 6secs, so 7.9s 60-100 at 250bhp.

Tested with a Racelogic Performance Box, my 90k miler 20VT gives me 0-60 in 7.0 seconds and 0-100 in 17.5 seconds. I've tried plenty of different launch techniques, but that is the best I have managed so far on Pirelli P6000 front tyres.

Autocar figures were 0-60 in 6.0 and 0-100 in 14.5. My gearchanges only lost me around 1 second in total, so I'm disappointed not to be closer to Autocar figures. Either they were given a higher than standard tuned version, or mine is down on power. I'm in Colchester, Essex. Can anyone recommend a decent Rolling Road?

Well - putting some decent tyres on would help you launch - P6000's are hard wearing motorway muching tyres....

You say that, but my best 0-30mph time (which gives a good indication of traction) was 2.8 seconds, compared to Autocar's 0-30mph of 2.5 seconds.
On that basis, (and remember I was on a road with a slight dip) I should still have been able to make a 0-100 of around 15.5 to 16 seconds factoring out my 0.3 second loss at launch and around a second (conservative) loss in gearchanges.
Are Pirelli P6000's much worse than the original Pirelli P-Zero's?

Yep. I've run them on track days - ripped a set to bits and then got a set of eagle F1's......difference was pretty big.

I would also have thought that the racelogic timing would not be 100% accurate?

20VT 4x4 Integrale conversion is what I believe you need to give you traction (and hence better 0-60 times), especially in the rain/damp. Typically, it rains about one day in three in the UK, somewhat more often in winter. Therefore, most tracks/events in the UK will be damp.

Currently I've got Racelogic Traction control on standard 20VT. This stops massive wheel spin (and helps 0-60), but it does this by backing off power - so it's not ideal (although the TC is very quick at modulating the power - better than me anyway). So it’s a great improvement for a numpty driver like me (I can just floor the accelerator from standing start, in mid-corner and when pulling out to overtake - and the TC does all the hard work, maximum amount of power without wheel spin)

I haven't timed the 0-60 with Racelogic TC insatlled, but it will depend on conditions, on damp days it will not be very good. Dry days and good soft tyres and it should get close to 6 secs. But just increasing power, shouldn’t really improve this time. When accelerating the weight goes to the back, the front goes light and the wheels spin (or with TC the power is backed off). I think more power = more spin in fwd coupe (at least from a standing start).

I'll let you know what the 20VT 4x4 standard coupe does (with just 220bhp that Fiat gave it – at least to start with). Project should be completed in about 12 weeks.

Saying that, I would also love the power of some of the top Coupe's on this forum....

If you are loosing traction in a standard 20VT on a dry road in a straight line without dumping the clutch then you have either knackered wishbones, tyres that are utter rubbish, or the car needs tracking.

There have been plenty of coops that have run racelogic traction control and found it made 1/4 mile times worse than with it off......

I've been to a few track days where it has been wet (most have been dry actually), and the coupe will put down 300bhp+ unless there's standing water or you put the power down too early (in third gear - which is pretty much the main gear to use on most tracks) with no problems. The light rear wheel drive cars have all sorts of problems.

Good luck with the conversion.

Gave mine a blast yesterday from 0mph...
Could only get to 92 tho as a car got in the way... Bugger!
Did 0-92ish (according to speedo) in approx 9.5 secs!!!
Pleasantly suprised... Reckon i'd have made 100 by 11 secs easily???

Nick

Nick

Tried 0-60 again other day... quite surprised as i'm pretty shite at launching!!! checked how accurate my speedo was with sat nav and 60 MPH reads at 62 on my dial... more accurate than i thought it would be!!

http://s132.photobucket.com/albums/q27/nicdav1/?action=view¤t=MOV00129.flv

I make that 5.3 ish secs!!

Nick

What setup are you running nick_d?

so how do you run your best time without TC? what "style" (lol) of driving when starting?

mate of mine was doing his "testing" and however he started he was around 6.3-6.5 .. but when floring the pedal and letting it hit the blockade in first gear for two times, then shifting 2nd.. he did 0-60 something close to 6.0
this was almoast standard 20vt.. when we took a look in ecu, there was a different chip inside.. went on dyno, and it showed 230bhp on crank.

btw.. other results say.. 290bhp coop, best QM time 13.6x .. with some 80hp shoot of nitro 12.9 (or 12.8) it resulted in overboost valve failure so nitro was droped as an idea .. coops 3rd gear owns 4x4

seriously i have no idea how to launch...AT ALL, so reckon if someone who could drove it would be a little quicker???

Didcoop running approx 250-270 bhp at wheels at mo with cossie turbo!!(amongst other things )

Nick

I have so far managed a 5 sec flat 0-60 mph measured on a gtech pro rr. This is with very bad launch, since due to large turbo i have huge lag, and the revs simply die when you slip the clutch. Im in the process of fitting Racelogic so will come with new results soon

Nice, I wondered why it was a bit sharpish! Isn't the Cossie turbo a T3 as well though?

Yep.

I'd say your launch was about 5.5 Nick, which is about right given your mods. All down to getting the knack and a fair bit of luck too! You need a G-Tech Pro for a real quotable figure.

Yeah my lag is pretty MASSIVE too!!
yeah cossie turbo is basically a larger t3 and is pretty much a straight swap for standard one apart from banjo bolts for water feed are alot bigger IIRC??

Nick

1992 Escort Cosworth had a T3
1995 Escort cosworth had a T25 IIRC

Here's the original Autocar Road test for the Fiat coupé 20vT. This should be saved on everyone's 'puta by now

mines a t34 from a sapphire cosworth 4wd IIRC!
I believe they used this larger turbo on the last escort cossies they did??

Nick

Must try and get hold of one of those blowers if they're a straight swap!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/T34-T4-HYBRID-ESCO...p3286.m14.l1318

Is it one of those bad boys Nick?

sort out your other mods such as FMIC before sticking a cossie turbo on it IMO!

Also, that link is NOT a proper Garrett one. Don't touch it with a bargepole.

NO! thats one of those cheap shit ones, most of them are just oil fed and are completely the wrong shape also, as they are not a straight swop... i should know i bought one and had my fingers burned!!!

If i were you i'd get everything else done first before thinking of bigger turbo... you'll be must better of getting the mods that aid spool up first so that when you get bigger turbo the lag won't be as bad...(coz it WILL be bad)... believe me you wouldn't like driving it if you just bolted a massive turbo on ... the lag would drive you insane....

Now most things have been done on mine i'm prob on full boost around 3700 revs...
Before i had all the work done there was a hybrid turbo on it which was deffo more potent than the standard blower, (not as big as cossie tho!) and with that nothing happened till 4000 revs so dread to think what it would have been like if i'd have just bolted the cossie one on??

Nick

Why don't you start a new thread asking people to post up 60-100 times and their mods in the same vein as the 40-100 in 3rd test was?

Stick it in a spreadsheet or something like this old one: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/welformed/CCL.jpg

It's about time we did something like this again.

Why dont you?

Because I did it once and it was an rse trying to get mod details out of people and keeping the spreadsheet up to date!

I'd do it again if I knew enough people were going to play.

I would but I dont have a stopwatch.

theres probably a stop watch on your phone!!! Doh!!
I'll see what i can do 60-100 then welformed... then you can kick off the spread sheet....

Nick

erm.... nope

Could buy a stopwatch for about three pounds?


I'm a genius.

THREEEEE whole pounds?

That's more than my lunch cost. A guy cannot go without food ya know

Don't think my phone has a stopwatch either! I'll see if I can borrow a local rozzers. They always have stopwatches don't they?

Edit: I do have a GPS tracker though, which will give me distance travelled and long. lat. to 5 decimal places, average speed, max speed to 2 decimal places etc. but time it only does to the nearest full second.

there you go welformed.... i make that 11.9/12 secs to 100mph!
http://s132.photobucket.com/albums/q27/nicdav1/?action=view¤t=MOV00005.flv

(please don't try this on everyday roads, this was carried out on my private test track!!!)

Going by what others have said in this thread i.e a 300 bhp coupe should do it in 13 secs... i'm MIGHTILY CHUFFED!!

Nick

P.s thats probably the first time she's been redlined in every gear since rebuild.... coupe paranoia will kick in tommorrow BIG STYLE...

There you go Nick, the calculator doesn't lie

300bhp Coupe

thats pretty dam good that calculator!!!

last rolling road was only 250bhp at the wheels tho,
Fly wheel was 264ish IIRC???

Since added 3.8 bar fpr tho instead of the 2.5 bar one i used on dyno so i presume my fuelling is alot better now...

Nick

According to my gtech rr i am currently 10,8 seconds to 100 MPH thats ok for now i guess...damn lag problems

I'm up for this again Welformed. 60-100 sounds bit better too. The 40-100 was a pain in the arse trying to find somewhere quiet enough. 60-100 from 50mph in 3rd gear sounds like a good test. Also over in under 9 secs for even a standard car

It'll be a test of outright power starting from 3,965rpm so even the big hitters are nicely spooled with a theoretcial top speed of 103mph assuming a 6,800rpm limiter.

I'll be changing up to 4th before I reach 100mph for the best time. It pulls great from 3500-6500 but the more I can keep the revs between 5000 and 6000 the better, that's my sweet spot

Doing the whole thing in one gear doesnt test the outright power, it tests the width of the power band (at the top end in this case)

Nice one nick_d. Looks like you were compromised by wheelspin there too. I have a vid of a 0-130 run, but I had pretty bad wheelspin and had to lift in 2nd as there is a slight corner involved too. Still, I think it was around 16-17 secs... BUT and it is a big BUT, I have noticed that replay from cameraphones in MP4 format does not appear to be at normal speed, so I wouldn't recommend that as a replacement for a stopwatch and honesty...

Anyway, IIRC I'm just off boost at 50mph in 3rd! 60 I'm not obviously. 50 in 5th I do everyday was well... I call it dawdling!

So you're running around 330 bhp??? thats what it should be according to FLEAS calculator???

Whats a g tech rr ??

Nick

MattW, if you change up to 4th at 95, you'll only be at 4,775rpm. It is never worth changing up early... unless you have a diesel.

Welformred, 0-130mph in 16-17 secs is doubtful with 300bhp. Here's a list of cars I have this data in this area for
15.6 BMW E60 M5
15.6 Porsche 911 997 GT3
15.8 Porsche 911 996 Turbo (Power Pack 450bhp)
16.5 Mercedes E 55 AMG
16.7 Mercedes SL 55 AMG
18.1 Aston Martin Vanquish
18.3 Vauxhall Carlton Lotus
19.0 Mercedes SLK 55 AMG Black
19.9 BMW E39 M5
21.2 Vauxhall Monaro VXR 8
21.6 BMW E90 335i
22.0 Audi A6 RS6

It just feels faster when the power is still increasing rather than tailing off. Must resist the urge to shift up

Nice one. You really are a handy stat-man!

16-17s (IIRC) was what I counted on the vid, though the vid was from a proper camcorder in MPEG-4, not a camphone in MP4 replaying at a dodgey speed... even so if 17secs, it may not *be* 17s. 20s would sound about right though, seeing as I managed a play with that E39 M5 and it was dead equal from 40 to about 110.

I'll be reviewing that vid again tonight for sure. It was probably 25s!

btw, isn't that Lotus Carlton a legend!

what speed can u get in 3rd gear?

According to the data i have, 3rd gear will do 15.1 mph for every 1,000rpm the engine is turning over at. I make this 103 mph at the limiter (6,800rpm) for a standard car so this should be entirely possible for everyone.

I think the NAs have the same length gear ratios as their turbo counterparts so they might even be able to join in too. Assuming of course they actually do 100mph?

cheers.. al have to get mine on a rolling road, dunno what bhp is in her.

For those wanting a free stopwatch for their stopwatch-less Symbian phone, I found this: http://www.racechrono.com/about/?lang=en

Works with GPS too! So I'll be checking this out tonight on one of the many MK circuit configurations.

Oh and check this - "performance tester. With the Performance Testing feature, you can test your vehicle’s acceleration. You can select from various different tests, for example 0-100 km/h acceleration test and a quarter mile test. Remember not to try these tests on the public roads!" :- http://www.racechrono.com/manual/?page_id=23&lang=en

Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet! Ooh I'm all excited.

Surely it depends on how quickly your GPS updates?

Yeah, probably too slow for an internal GPS - 1Hz sense instead of 5Hz sense. It'll be a gimick probably, but nevertheless I'm struggling to hold back the sex wee until I get home tonight to download it!

Just look at all those sexy graphs!

I'm doing it! Tonight it's gonna be played with whether it works well or not, that is if it's not raining which it is currently

nice n sunny here iv downloaded the track thing to my n82. only prob is we cant get 3g up here in the hills.

Could you cheat? Get someone in the back seat to throw your phone to the front of the car at the last moment! Could shave 0.1s.

welformed, the laws of physics prohibit that, so it wont work, einstein's general theory of relativity!!!

I don't get how it works? Is it off the GPS signal?

Surely you need GPS on your phone!? I have an N95 so I THINK it will work on there, someone correct me if I'm wrong!

me cheat? noo.. wey its working, had 6 sats.. took it for a run but couldnt do it as they were to many cars n had to slow down, plus its all up hill got 120ish out of it but wasnt pushing it. also i need to set me dump valve proberly. al have to try n find a better spot.

n82 is the same as the n92 but smaller, cant see why it shouldnt work.

I still don't get it lol!

in the settings change the gps receiver to internal gps

Ah cool I shall go home, download it and see what it does!

Already researched that bit http://www.racechrono.com/manual/?page_id=56&lang=en

Just charging my phone up. Seems to work ok. Sadly on foot I could only manage a 0-10kph performace test!

my traveled route was 15 mins. think 164kph was my highest but up hill n cars in the way.

I did 320 kph up the motorway the other week, according to my AVCR. Do you think it's lying to me?

nice bit of kit uv found, probs have to pay for it after a month.

somethings not right, dont think me mob is.

Actually it's still in beta. So it just says download the next beta version in a month, hopefully still for free, but dependant on how well it works on an internal GPS, I'd probably pay for it anyway.

found 185kph on me track time

Well iv installed it so im gonna have to give it a go!

I just about make 100mph in third. Strange that Autocar were running to 7000rpm on their test car, which equated to a max 108mph in third, and 72mph in second. My Racelogic Vbox Mini tells me i'm getting 68mph in 2nd, and I can just about nudge 100mph in third. How can rev limiter be raised?

It can be raised using a custom chip for the ECU - but on a standard turbo you wont benefit much from raising the limiter.

Has anyone attempted a group buy for Racelogic PerformanceBox. They are only around £330 inc VAT. I'm sure we could get a minimum 10% discount on an order of 10 bringing peice down to £300. This unit updates at 10hz so very fast and accurate. Clicky http://www.performancebox.co.uk/overview.html

On the subject of meaningful tests, I reckon a 30-70 in any gear, plus 50-100mph in fifth. Anything over 100mph is too risky unless we can hire out a runway somewhere.

My contribution is:

Std 20VT 1997 95,000 miles

30-70 through gears:- 6.2sec,
50-100 in fifth gear :- to be added
60-100 in fifth gear :- 16.82 sec

i can get aroundt 100mph in 3rd and my car is running about 270bhp

BHP won't determine maximum speed in each gear, rather just how quick you get there.

Gearing and max rpm determine max speed in each gear.

If you cant quite reach 70 in 2nd or 100 in 3rd then get some slightly bigger tyres...

I had thought of that...what size do you recommend?

i hit the limiter in 3rd at a 108mph with the standard rev limiter and now 110mph with raised one.

I had 215/35/18 on 18" wheels, I considered trying 225/35/18 or 215/40/18 but I have no idea about sizes on standard wheels!

would 225 50 16 fit? Alternatively, what rev limit is programmed into gtec1? Maybe I can have mine raised to 7000rpm before I fit into car.

Just carried out a comparison test between Racelogic Vbox Mini 10Hz, and the RaceChrono software installed installed on a Nokia N80 and connected via Bluetooth to a QStarz Q-1000P 5Hz GPS.

0-100km/h - Most Vbox results around 0.6 to 0.7 sec slower than RaceChrono software. On one occasion it registered a time 1.7 seconds faster than the Vbox. Therefore on average, the RaceChrono results are almost a second too fast copmpared to actual timings. This is due to a combination of GPS receiver and software not being able to react quickly enough to a start. The stopwatch timer starts as soon as the software detects acceleration, or when the GPS registers a change in speed.

Some Bluetooth receivers have a static navigation mode which means that at very low speeds they register zero - which would not help the RaceChrono software. Speed is only registered as soon as it exceeds a given parameter such as 3mph or 5km/h. For some reason the Nokia N80 doesn't display speed at 5hz, rather just 1hz. A similar program on my SonyEricsson K800i does display speed at the full 5hz, which might help accuracy.

Hope this helps any potential users.

80-120 km/h test - On average this is a little more accurate with readings around 0.3sec faster on RaceChrono than the vBOX. So remember that RaceChrono 80-120km/h results are around 0.3 sec too fast compared with real timings.

If anyone wants to arrange a meet at a disused runway, I'll be happy to bring along Vbox to see what times can be achieved.

Using my own calculator...
215/35/18= 0.6% higher reading than standard wheels
225/35/18= 0.5% lower reading than standard wheels
215/40/18= 2.8% lower reading than standard wheels