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Re: n/a owner tempted by vt
[Re: HiraethHuw]
#1522538
21/01/2015 19:06
21/01/2015 19:06
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pjdm
Unregistered
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pjdm
Unregistered
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Only an idiot would ever feel nervous overtaking
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Re: n/a owner tempted by vt
[Re: HiraethHuw]
#1522550
21/01/2015 21:36
21/01/2015 21:36
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Barney
Unregistered
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Barney
Unregistered
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Has anyone offered the original poster a go in their turbo?! Some borderline ludicrous posts pj - well done! Owned a 16V N/A for several years. Can say the same of my 328bhp turbo plus which I still own now. Off boost the turbo pulls like any other sedate car and is perfectly driveable in city traffic. The N/A always felt woefully underpowered. An observation made the first time I drove it, before I'd ever been in a turbo coupe. Reliability at least in part comes down to care and maintenance. My plus has never left me stranded anywhere or even failed to start. It's very well looked after and yet most significant costs have been through choice rather than necessity. I recall the 16V N/A had better steering feel but let's keep a sensible perspective on this, that's the only thing it did better and even then the difference is somewhere between mild and moderate, certainly not extreme. Driving my N/A hard gave the sense of total vehicular domination, great fun but easy to find *my* limit. Maybe takes a bit more time to get the same confidence pushing extremely hard in a 20VT but exactly as Nigel says that comes with high speed thrills aplenty. The 'point and squirt' mentioned here stems from the need to come back down from silly speeds the turbo piles on in seconds, but having that extra power doesn't preclude carrying speed round a bend or applying throttle in a controlled manner. IMO the 20VT (especially when modified) is more likely to have talents that exceed those of its driver. On that basis I submit that it's more rewarding for a 'spirited' drive. As a lot of you do Spa every year, are there any comparative lap times available?
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Re: n/a owner tempted by vt
[Re: HiraethHuw]
#1522556
21/01/2015 22:02
21/01/2015 22:02
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pjdm
Unregistered
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pjdm
Unregistered
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Im not sure track driving can be compared to a winding country lane, hence track times? this thread is getting abit turbo vs na which is kind of daft. But to say a turbo car off boost is as fast as an na is not correct sorry just totaly wrong.
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Re: n/a owner tempted by vt
[Re: HiraethHuw]
#1522560
21/01/2015 22:29
21/01/2015 22:29
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Barney
Unregistered
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Barney
Unregistered
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Yeah I didn't give the track layout much consideration. Question only intended as a talking point, nothing more. Think we can all agree driver ability is key difference, albeit still not the point. @pj - Opening line there was just a quip so hope not taken the wrong way.
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Re: n/a owner tempted by vt
[Re: ]
#1522566
22/01/2015 01:10
22/01/2015 01:10
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pjdm
Unregistered
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pjdm
Unregistered
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Yeah I didn't give the track layout much consideration. Question only intended as a talking point, nothing more. Think we can all agree driver ability is key difference, albeit still not the point. @pj - Opening line there was just a quip so hope not taken the wrong way. Not at all m8. I agree its down to the driver, would love to see a good 16v na and a vt going at it round a short course, and then a long course track. Id let my car be used for that I recon. Id bet 16v would take short course and vt long.
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Re: n/a owner tempted by vt
[Re: HiraethHuw]
#1522584
22/01/2015 11:20
22/01/2015 11:20
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nissansteve
Unregistered
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nissansteve
Unregistered
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I've not driven a NA coupe so can't shout too much, but I love the 20vt for its grunt. I guess my marea was close to a NA coupe lol, same floor pan and much less power, weight up front.
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Re: n/a owner tempted by vt
[Re: ]
#1522596
22/01/2015 13:34
22/01/2015 13:34
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,370 Staffordshire
Nigel
Forum veteran
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Forum veteran
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,370
Staffordshire
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would love to see a good 16v na and a vt going at it round a short course, and then a long course track. Id let my car be used for that I recon. Id bet 16v would take short course and vt long. No - the 20vt will beat the 16v N/A regardless of the track - its just that on really tight twisty tracks, the N/A won't be left behind by anywhere near as much. On an open track with a decent straight, the 20vt will romp away. I'll dig out the times from Curborough as an illustration - I think we could class this as a short, twisty track
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Re: n/a owner tempted by vt
[Re: HiraethHuw]
#1522597
22/01/2015 13:34
22/01/2015 13:34
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 836 Hereford
HiraethHuw
OP
Enjoying the ride
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OP
Enjoying the ride
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 836
Hereford
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(The gent has re-listed the turbo at the same price). I have driven a modern turbo diesel - a mates Leon 170. Left me cold TBH - dull noise,inability to rev past 5k and a sensation of speed only indicated by the speedo. Roads I like to drive - country with bends inter-linked by point and shoot straights. I like engine, induction and exhaust noise. Stock Alfa Sprint 1.7 on carbs being my best car for that so far. Do I like speed? Hell yeah. Post 4k rpm in 5th the road warps and fully engages my concentration, unlike 50mph in traffic. Only on empty private roads you understand, like Wales I am enjoying all of the contributions. Thanks
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Re: n/a owner tempted by vt
[Re: HiraethHuw]
#1522606
22/01/2015 14:22
22/01/2015 14:22
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,291 Staffs
Dazvr6
My job on the forum
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My job on the forum
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,291
Staffs
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(The gent has re-listed the turbo at the same price). I have driven a modern turbo diesel - a mates Leon 170. Left me cold TBH - dull noise,inability to rev past 5k and a sensation of speed only indicated by the speedo. Roads I like to drive - country with bends inter-linked by point and shoot straights. I like engine, induction and exhaust noise. Stock Alfa Sprint 1.7 on carbs being my best car for that so far. Do I like speed? Hell yeah. Post 4k rpm in 5th the road warps and fully engages my concentration, unlike 50mph in traffic. Only on empty private roads you understand, like Wales I am enjoying all of the contributions. Thanks Dude you so need a 20vt! I'm not disrespecting N/A cars as all coupes are fantastic, but the noise and acceleration of the turbo is addictive.
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Re: n/a owner tempted by vt
[Re: Dazvr6]
#1522615
22/01/2015 14:52
22/01/2015 14:52
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pjdm
Unregistered
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pjdm
Unregistered
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(The gent has re-listed the turbo at the same price). I have driven a modern turbo diesel - a mates Leon 170. Left me cold TBH - dull noise,inability to rev past 5k and a sensation of speed only indicated by the speedo. Roads I like to drive - country with bends inter-linked by point and shoot straights. I like engine, induction and exhaust noise. Stock Alfa Sprint 1.7 on carbs being my best car for that so far. Do I like speed? Hell yeah. Post 4k rpm in 5th the road warps and fully engages my concentration, unlike 50mph in traffic. Only on empty private roads you understand, like Wales I am enjoying all of the contributions. Thanks Dude you so need a 20vt! I'm not disrespecting N/A cars as all coupes are fantastic, but the noise and acceleration of the turbo is addictive. And real driving isn't?
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Re: n/a owner tempted by vt
[Re: HiraethHuw]
#1522627
22/01/2015 16:42
22/01/2015 16:42
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sa_20v
Unregistered
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sa_20v
Unregistered
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I think we're going slightly off-topic here. But in my experience driving something you can fully exploit in relative safety (and mostly legally) on public roads is the thing to have.
The most rewarding drive I ever had was in a bog-standard 2.5 Porsche Boxster (986). You had to absolutely wring its neck and it rewarded you for doing so. It wasn't very quick in a straight line but that's what made it fun - it wasn't easy to drive quickly.
There's nothing wrong with the NA, but if you want to accelerate hard in third gear and overtake slightly more quickly, get the turbo.
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Re: n/a owner tempted by vt
[Re: HiraethHuw]
#1522633
22/01/2015 17:01
22/01/2015 17:01
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pjdm
Unregistered
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pjdm
Unregistered
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People, ladies and gentlemen you miss the point. Didn't want to say this, ive tryed to coax it from you. The Coupe has Soul. No car has soul in straight lines. some Coupes have more soul than others. A petrol head doesn't just think speed speed speed. AMEN..
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Re: n/a owner tempted by vt
[Re: HiraethHuw]
#1522672
22/01/2015 20:38
22/01/2015 20:38
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,611 S. Wales. Way beyond my means
Gripped
Club member 1924
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Club member 1924
Forum is my job
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,611
S. Wales. Way beyond my means
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My mapped VIS will quite happily overtake spiritedly in 3rd thanks. For motorways, the higher ratios and torque of the turbo make much more sense.
Last edited by Gripped; 22/01/2015 20:39.
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Re: n/a owner tempted by vt
[Re: HiraethHuw]
#1522677
22/01/2015 20:50
22/01/2015 20:50
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pjdm
Unregistered
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pjdm
Unregistered
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Leaf blowers are for people with ginger hair and the soulless teeheeeeheeeeee
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Re: n/a owner tempted by vt
[Re: Gripped]
#1522690
22/01/2015 21:30
22/01/2015 21:30
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 836 Hereford
HiraethHuw
OP
Enjoying the ride
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OP
Enjoying the ride
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 836
Hereford
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My mapped VIS will quite happily overtake spiritedly in 3rd thanks. For motorways, the higher ratios and torque of the turbo make much more sense. A re-map sounds like my way forward. Can you indulge me and describe the before and after re-map driving characteristics of your car? Also, which exhaust did you plump for? I'm on a budget so the sensible me says 'stick with the car you have sorted out' rather than shell out on another project , which would be a 20vt. Yep, my Vis shifts on in 3rd, does this now continue into fourth abit? Thanks
Last edited by HiraethHuw; 22/01/2015 21:55.
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Re: n/a owner tempted by vt
[Re: HiraethHuw]
#1522691
22/01/2015 21:35
22/01/2015 21:35
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pjdm
Unregistered
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pjdm
Unregistered
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I read that if you re-map you also need other upgrades like decent induction kit, and for stage 2 maps, exhaust, injectors, fuel pump. And na can achieve 200plus hp?
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Re: n/a owner tempted by vt
[Re: ]
#1522705
22/01/2015 22:17
22/01/2015 22:17
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 836 Hereford
HiraethHuw
OP
Enjoying the ride
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OP
Enjoying the ride
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 836
Hereford
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Stage 1 is my starting point. You can't fiddle with the stock induction system on a Vis, it upsets it. You can have a remap on a bog standard car, but I'd like a fruity exhaust for the aural pleasure. For more details see Flea's web-site - it has all the info. He's got a chip for your motor too :- http://www.fcperformance.co.uk/fiat-coupe-16v.phpJoe at FCSS has made 200bhp from a 20v n/a but that's bored out to 2.4. How much to go how fast? That's my prob.
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Re: n/a owner tempted by vt
[Re: ]
#1522707
22/01/2015 22:25
22/01/2015 22:25
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,370 Staffordshire
Nigel
Forum veteran
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Forum veteran
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,370
Staffordshire
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No car has soul in straight lines. You need a passenger ride in mine... 0-100 in around 9 seconds and 150 eight seconds later (and 175 another eight seconds after that) is plenty of soul (although I hear your point, hence why mine goes round corners fairly well too....)
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Re: n/a owner tempted by vt
[Re: HiraethHuw]
#1522708
22/01/2015 22:49
22/01/2015 22:49
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 533 Rugby, Warwickshire
Carlscott
Enjoying the ride
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Enjoying the ride
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 533
Rugby, Warwickshire
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I'd gladly take you up on that offer Nigel
Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad
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Re: n/a owner tempted by vt
[Re: HiraethHuw]
#1522721
23/01/2015 00:46
23/01/2015 00:46
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,611 S. Wales. Way beyond my means
Gripped
Club member 1924
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Club member 1924
Forum is my job
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,611
S. Wales. Way beyond my means
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My mapped VIS will quite happily overtake spiritedly in 3rd thanks. For motorways, the higher ratios and torque of the turbo make much more sense. A re-map sounds like my way forward. Can you indulge me and describe the before and after re-map driving characteristics of your car? Also, which exhaust did you plump for? I'm on a budget so the sensible me says 'stick with the car you have sorted out' rather than shell out on another project , which would be a 20vt. Yep, my Vis shifts on in 3rd, does this now continue into fourth abit? Thanks My VIS went from 155 to 169bhp from Flea remap. More torque and smooth if anything. Don't expect turbo performance, but plenty of fun. Also red lines at 7,000rpm which is higher than stock. That was BEFORE my new custom made exhaust... which may have given a few more bhp...so perhaps 170+bhp. Went for a Prospeed exhaust, which was hand made. Have a look on the exhausts thread for details.... and this vid of mine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbGo1OnuJagHere is me at Castle Combe giving it a blast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9ux-3p_reoSeeing that it is a pretty stock car, I managed to give a good performance and overtake some cars and hold my own. Golf VR6 was dispatched for example. I loved my track day, and would like to do another. I went in a Coupe turbo on the same day. This was a modded 300bhp+ and was fast, but I still enjoyed ragging my NA.
Last edited by Gripped; 23/01/2015 00:52.
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