Sorry but I have to agree with Nigel on this one.
It's only risky if you have an N/A.

Now that tickled me Dazvr6!!

It's true though, never felt so confident overtaking as when I had my 20vt.

The GT with its 200bhp is close, but you can't just engage 3rd gear and plant it, you're changing gear every few seconds to keep in the torque curve.

Only an idiot would ever feel nervous overtaking

Though... I've said this before, so apologies to those that have previously heard it:

The coupe takes me an hour less, give or take, between the end of the A74 and the Isle of Skye, than the more powerful Cupra 20vt.

I'm not speaking of ragging it through the highlands, just making decent progress close to the speed limit when the road conditions are suitable. But it is so much easier to overtake in the slower coupe; I'm convinced people see it coming up behind it and make space, whereas they see the cupra and it's just another hatchback.

Has anyone offered the original poster a go in their turbo?!

Some borderline ludicrous posts pj - well done!

Owned a 16V N/A for several years. Can say the same of my 328bhp turbo plus which I still own now.
Off boost the turbo pulls like any other sedate car and is perfectly driveable in city traffic. The N/A always felt woefully underpowered. An observation made the first time I drove it, before I'd ever been in a turbo coupe.

Reliability at least in part comes down to care and maintenance. My plus has never left me stranded anywhere or even failed to start. It's very well looked after and yet most significant costs have been through choice rather than necessity.

I recall the 16V N/A had better steering feel but let's keep a sensible perspective on this, that's the only thing it did better and even then the difference is somewhere between mild and moderate, certainly not extreme. Driving my N/A hard gave the sense of total vehicular domination, great fun but easy to find *my* limit. Maybe takes a bit more time to get the same confidence pushing extremely hard in a 20VT but exactly as Nigel says that comes with high speed thrills aplenty. The 'point and squirt' mentioned here stems from the need to come back down from silly speeds the turbo piles on in seconds, but having that extra power doesn't preclude carrying speed round a bend or applying throttle in a controlled manner.

IMO the 20VT (especially when modified) is more likely to have talents that exceed those of its driver. On that basis I submit that it's more rewarding for a 'spirited' drive.

As a lot of you do Spa every year, are there any comparative lap times available?

Im not sure track driving can be compared to a winding country lane, hence track times?
this thread is getting abit turbo vs na which is kind of daft.
But to say a turbo car off boost is as fast as an na is not correct sorry just totaly wrong.

Spa is no contest; it's a fast track and the 20vt is 30mph faster down the straights. But the 16NA is braking later into the corners and taking more speed through them, though it can't keep up on the straights.

Though I did manage to take six 20vt at the same time into La Source under braking...

On the other hand, while it's not as fast as all, it's quicker than some around Curborough, in the wet.

But as Phil says: that's not the point.

Yeah I didn't give the track layout much consideration. Question only intended as a talking point, nothing more. Think we can all agree driver ability is key difference, albeit still not the point.

@pj - Opening line there was just a quip so hope not taken the wrong way.

Not at all m8.

I agree its down to the driver, would love to see a good 16v na and a vt going at it round a short course, and then a long course track.
Id let my car be used for that I recon.
Id bet 16v would take short course and vt long.

I've not driven a NA coupe so can't shout too much, but I love the 20vt for its grunt.
I guess my marea was close to a NA coupe lol, same floor pan and much less power, weight up front.

No - the 20vt will beat the 16v N/A regardless of the track - its just that on really tight twisty tracks, the N/A won't be left behind by anywhere near as much. On an open track with a decent straight, the 20vt will romp away.

I'll dig out the times from Curborough as an illustration - I think we could class this as a short, twisty track

(The gent has re-listed the turbo at the same price).
I have driven a modern turbo diesel - a mates Leon 170. Left me cold TBH - dull noise,inability to rev past 5k and a sensation of speed only indicated by the speedo.
Roads I like to drive - country with bends inter-linked by point and shoot straights. I like engine, induction and exhaust noise. Stock Alfa Sprint 1.7 on carbs being my best car for that so far.
Do I like speed? Hell yeah. Post 4k rpm in 5th the road warps and fully engages my concentration, unlike 50mph in traffic. Only on empty private roads you understand, like Wales I am enjoying all of the contributions. Thanks

From the 2010 Curborough meet: http://www.fiatcoupeclub.org/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1111330&page=9

Nigel took a second or so off my time, but let's face it, he was *born* on that track and I'd never driven a track in a coupe (and hadn't driven any track in twenty years or so).

Dude you so need a 20vt!
I'm not disrespecting N/A cars as all coupes are fantastic, but the noise and acceleration of the turbo is addictive.

Horses for courses.

They are good for different kinds of driving. I think you can have more fun at lower speeds in an NA.

And real driving isn't?

But how often do you get chance to do some 'real driving'?
I get to use the acceleration and overtaking capabilities of mine every day but rarely do I get chance to explore the 'real driving' aspect of it.

I think we're going slightly off-topic here. But in my experience driving something you can fully exploit in relative safety (and mostly legally) on public roads is the thing to have.

The most rewarding drive I ever had was in a bog-standard 2.5 Porsche Boxster (986). You had to absolutely wring its neck and it rewarded you for doing so. It wasn't very quick in a straight line but that's what made it fun - it wasn't easy to drive quickly.

There's nothing wrong with the NA, but if you want to accelerate hard in third gear and overtake slightly more quickly, get the turbo.

People, ladies and gentlemen you miss the point.
Didn't want to say this, ive tryed to coax it from you.
The Coupe has Soul. No car has soul in straight lines.
some Coupes have more soul than others.
A petrol head doesn't just think speed speed speed.
AMEN..

Spoken like a bloke without a leaf blower on his Coupe!

My mapped VIS will quite happily overtake spiritedly in 3rd thanks.



For motorways, the higher ratios and torque of the turbo make much more sense.

Leaf blowers are for people with ginger hair and the soulless teeheeeeheeeeee

A re-map sounds like my way forward. Can you indulge me and describe the before and after re-map driving characteristics of your car? Also, which exhaust did you plump for? I'm on a budget so the sensible me says 'stick with the car you have sorted out' rather than shell out on another project , which would be a 20vt. Yep, my Vis shifts on in 3rd, does this now continue into fourth abit? Thanks

I read that if you re-map you also need other upgrades like decent induction kit, and for stage 2 maps, exhaust, injectors, fuel pump. And na can achieve 200plus hp?

Stage 1 is my starting point. You can't fiddle with the stock induction system on a Vis, it upsets it. You can have a remap on a bog standard car, but I'd like a fruity exhaust for the aural pleasure. For more details see Flea's web-site - it has all the info. He's got a chip for your motor too :- http://www.fcperformance.co.uk/fiat-coupe-16v.php
Joe at FCSS has made 200bhp from a 20v n/a but that's bored out to 2.4. How much to go how fast? That's my prob.

You need a passenger ride in mine... 0-100 in around 9 seconds and 150 eight seconds later (and 175 another eight seconds after that) is plenty of soul (although I hear your point, hence why mine goes round corners fairly well too....)

I'd gladly take you up on that offer Nigel

My VIS went from 155 to 169bhp from Flea remap.

More torque and smooth if anything. Don't expect turbo performance, but plenty of fun. Also red lines at 7,000rpm which is higher than stock.

That was BEFORE my new custom made exhaust... which may have given a few more bhp...so perhaps 170+bhp. Went for a Prospeed exhaust, which was hand made.

Have a look on the exhausts thread for details.... and this vid of mine:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbGo1OnuJag


Here is me at Castle Combe giving it a blast:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9ux-3p_reo

Seeing that it is a pretty stock car, I managed to give a good performance and overtake some cars and hold my own. Golf VR6 was dispatched for example. I loved my track day, and would like to do another. I went in a Coupe turbo on the same day. This was a modded 300bhp+ and was fast, but I still enjoyed ragging my NA.

Gripped that sounds awesome - despite my love of the turbo I'm sure my return to Coupe ownership will be a n/a or VIS.

Let me know if you sell up, Burgundy is the best colour