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Re: Paris shooting......
[Re: Barmybob]
#1521378
12/01/2015 17:58
12/01/2015 17:58
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GrahamL
Unregistered
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GrahamL
Unregistered
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It becomes tedious when you see well educated and seemingly intelligent people resort to labeling and putting issues into neat little boxes. I can only conclude that such people are either too lazy to apply their minds, or they are simply trolling. Agreed. When I hear laughable statements like "The attacks have absolutely nothing to do with Islam" on the BBC and elsewhere I wonder if these people are genuinely completely ignorant of the facts, if they feel unable to speak freely in public, if they're simply toeing the PC party line to further their careers or if they're really just trolling. Either way it makes any meaningful debate on most any subject totally pointless. Indeed. A reasoned public debate on some topics is now more or less impossible. I gave up trying to achieve the impossible some time ago hence I try not to get involed.
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Re: Paris shooting......
[Re: bezzer]
#1521394
12/01/2015 19:32
12/01/2015 19:32
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glenn1960
Unregistered
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glenn1960
Unregistered
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The american on the news today over in the good old US of A, Mr Steven Emerson, says that Birmingham is a no go area for non muslims. What a load of rubbish .As if Birmingham is totally muslim.
Only areas such as Aston, Handsworth, Lozells, Winson Green, Smethwick, Saltley, Washwood Heath, Ward End and Alum Rock, matbe others, come under the mainly muslim areas. HE should have got his facts right before making such a statement
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Re: Paris shooting......
[Re: ]
#1521402
12/01/2015 20:06
12/01/2015 20:06
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 16,603 Corridor of Uncertainty
Jim_Clennell
Forum veteran
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Forum veteran
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 16,603
Corridor of Uncertainty
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It becomes tedious when you see well educated and seemingly intelligent people resort to labeling and putting issues into neat little boxes. I can only conclude that such people are either too lazy to apply their minds, or they are simply trolling. Agreed. When I hear laughable statements like "The attacks have absolutely nothing to do with Islam" on the BBC and elsewhere I wonder if these people are genuinely completely ignorant of the facts, if they feel unable to speak freely in public, if they're simply toeing the PC party line to further their careers or if they're really just trolling. I think the point people are trying to make with a statement like this is that the actions of terrorists are not representative of Islam. The perpetrators represent neither the doctrine nor the people of what normal everyday Muslims see as their religion. As we have seen here, people are very quick to speak of Muslims generally as somehow agreeing with or condoning criminal murderers who say they are Muslims, but actually are as far removed as Nazis from Christians.
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Re: Paris shooting......
[Re: bezzer]
#1521407
12/01/2015 20:24
12/01/2015 20:24
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Big_Muzzie
Unregistered
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Big_Muzzie
Unregistered
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Think you've hit the nail on the head there Jim!
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Re: Paris shooting......
[Re: bezzer]
#1521417
12/01/2015 21:22
12/01/2015 21:22
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,783 In the coupe.
magooagain
Club Member 259
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Club Member 259
Forum is my life
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,783
In the coupe.
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If one day the Muslim murderers gain power and rule in Europe. Then i believe you will see ALL the good Muslim people fall into line and supporting them.
What will life be like for the non Muslim's then?
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Re: Paris shooting......
[Re: magooagain]
#1521421
12/01/2015 21:41
12/01/2015 21:41
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,610 S. Wales. Way beyond my means
Gripped
Club member 1924
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Club member 1924
Forum is my job
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,610
S. Wales. Way beyond my means
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If one day the Muslim murderers gain power and rule in Europe. Then i believe you will see ALL the good Muslim people fall into line and supporting them.
What will life be like for the non Muslim's then? If we remove the word Muslim, your point would then be that "good" people will be forced [presumably on threat of death] to support an extremist regime like IS / A.N.Other extremist group. Surely in that case, it wont matter what religion you are. Note that in some Middle Eastern and African countries, being Muslim is no protection from Muslim extremists.
Last edited by Gripped; 12/01/2015 21:46.
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Re: Paris shooting......
[Re: bezzer]
#1521427
12/01/2015 22:19
12/01/2015 22:19
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Big_Muzzie
Unregistered
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Big_Muzzie
Unregistered
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That's because you've just messed up! There are branches of Muslim, and like the different types of Christians, they don't get on. It's a bit like different football team supporters, the team is the god and the supporters protected that god, sometimes to the death.
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Re: Paris shooting......
[Re: bezzer]
#1521431
12/01/2015 22:40
12/01/2015 22:40
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,783 In the coupe.
magooagain
Club Member 259
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Club Member 259
Forum is my life
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,783
In the coupe.
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The point i am making is that the good muslim folk will become bad muslim folk(by force if nessesary).
I believe those that are left will become cannon/sabre fodder.
What do you think what would happen to us rest if the murdering Muslim's take power in Europe?
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Re: Paris shooting......
[Re: bezzer]
#1521489
13/01/2015 11:10
13/01/2015 11:10
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 21,071 Chertsey in the Thames
bockers
Hon Club Member 007
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Hon Club Member 007
Forum Fossil
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 21,071
Chertsey in the Thames
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Listening to Radio 4 and it struck me that I cannot possibly understand any extreme religion. There was a man explaining that he loved his God/Prophet/Icon way more than he loved his own children or rest of family. This is, in my opinion, extreme and just incomprehensible as it goes against all human instinct that we have until indoctrinated. In light of this it is easy to see how authority figures in any religion, followed to extreme, can be mis-read by their congregation/followers... and the resulting extreme actions take place if the followers think their religion is being mocked or threatened. I can't see an answer
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Re: Paris shooting......
[Re: bezzer]
#1521513
13/01/2015 14:07
13/01/2015 14:07
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,610 S. Wales. Way beyond my means
Gripped
Club member 1924
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Club member 1924
Forum is my job
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,610
S. Wales. Way beyond my means
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Just to draw another parallel, think back to the concept of Manifest Destinty during the colonisation of the American West in the 1800s. Part of the idea was that God sanctioned the colonists to claim the lands.
At the time, no doubt many considered it a noble enterprise, but I'm not sure the indigenous peoples saw it that way.
Is this really any different to the forced imposition of any ideology be it religious or otherwise?
It also demonstrates that Islam is not unique in being misused for violent conquest.
Last edited by Gripped; 13/01/2015 14:08.
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Re: Paris shooting......
[Re: bezzer]
#1521523
13/01/2015 15:50
13/01/2015 15:50
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 776 State of Essex .
robcoupe20vt
Enjoying the ride
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Enjoying the ride
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 776
State of Essex .
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A good program to watch last night was panorama I am surprised the BBC put out a program like this . Non violent extremists . I also heard on James O Brien radio program on friday a muslim man rang in to speak with James . This man could not talk as he was crying uncontrollably like a baby because of the cartoons ? James eventually got him to talk about his feelings and explain why he was crying . The futures not looking very bright .
Fiat 20VT Fiat 16vt Fiat 130TC Fiat 131 sport Kawasaki ZX6RP7F Kawasaki GPZ550 Kawasaki ZX7R P2
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Re: Paris shooting......
[Re: barnacle]
#1521525
13/01/2015 16:06
13/01/2015 16:06
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,783 In the coupe.
magooagain
Club Member 259
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Club Member 259
Forum is my life
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,783
In the coupe.
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Beware the person who is willing to give his life for his cause; he is unlikely to care about yours. I think we can say that about our first and second world war soldiers. Were they volunteer's? They gave thier lives. Blimey now we have to beware our own soldiers yet alone the murdering Muslim's.
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Re: Paris shooting......
[Re: magooagain]
#1521527
13/01/2015 16:48
13/01/2015 16:48
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 776 State of Essex .
robcoupe20vt
Enjoying the ride
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Enjoying the ride
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 776
State of Essex .
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Beware the person who is willing to give his life for his cause; he is unlikely to care about yours. I think we can say that about our first and second world war soldiers. Were they volunteer's? They gave thier lives. Blimey now we have to beware our own soldiers yet alone the murdering Muslim's. What you have written then is a contradiction . And i think barnacle post was more to do with religion than national pride or fighting for your country .Correct me if i am wrong ?
Fiat 20VT Fiat 16vt Fiat 130TC Fiat 131 sport Kawasaki ZX6RP7F Kawasaki GPZ550 Kawasaki ZX7R P2
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Re: Paris shooting......
[Re: robcoupe20vt]
#1521538
13/01/2015 17:30
13/01/2015 17:30
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,783 In the coupe.
magooagain
Club Member 259
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Club Member 259
Forum is my life
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,783
In the coupe.
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Beware the person who is willing to give his life for his cause; he is unlikely to care about yours. I think we can say that about our first and second world war soldiers. Were they volunteer's? They gave thier lives. Blimey now we have to beware our own soldiers yet alone the murdering Muslim's. What you have written then is a contradiction . And i think barnacle post was more to do with religion than national pride or fighting for your country .Correct me if i am wrong ? Yes possibly a contradiction Rob,but how i see it is that while we know the terrorist is wrong,they dont see it as wrong. They believe they are fighting/killing for thier cause and belief's and in this case it's about a faith they follow. Maybe you ,i or a soldier would die protecting our loved one's or our freedom. And also possibly kill to protect our cause. Bockers has it about right saying there is no solving this problem. But in the meantime the world suffers. Its not just the Muslim terrorists that are murdering daily.
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Re: Paris shooting......
[Re: robcoupe20vt]
#1521545
13/01/2015 18:06
13/01/2015 18:06
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,568 Berlin
barnacle
Club Member 18 - ex-Minister without Portfolio
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Club Member 18 - ex-Minister without Portfolio
Forum Demigod
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,568
Berlin
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Beware the person who is willing to give his life for his cause; he is unlikely to care about yours. I think we can say that about our first and second world war soldiers. Were they volunteer's? They gave thier lives. Blimey now we have to beware our own soldiers yet alone the murdering Muslim's. What you have written then is a contradiction . And i think barnacle post was more to do with religion than national pride or fighting for your country .Correct me if i am wrong ? I think you might take the point of view that while a soldier might be willing to die, it's not his primary aim; he'd much rather get through in one piece and only in exceptional circumstances choose death to complete a mission. The religious fanatic is already convinced that paradise comes his way if he dies in action; he has nothing to lose and from his point of view everything to gain. Why should he show *you* any mercy? As far as he's concerned, you're either beneath his notice, or, if the same religion, he's giving you a free pass. Your view on the matter is immaterial to him.
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Re: Paris shooting......
[Re: bezzer]
#1521554
13/01/2015 18:54
13/01/2015 18:54
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 6,731 Surrey
Emjay
Forum is my life
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Forum is my life
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 6,731
Surrey
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Then I really need to work out where I have gone so wrong. Such heresies as loving your neighbour as yourself, laying down your life for your enemies, turning the other cheek, forgiving those who persecute you. I am not afraid of death but I am not seeking it. Perhaps I should have turned left at the end of the fanatics corridor, rather than right, as I feel much more inclined to ply people with tea and cake and put their interests before mine, than kill them.
I must be such a disappointment to so many, albeit not for the first time I am sure!
Does our law condemn a man without first hearing him to find out what he has been doing? (John 7:51)
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Re: Paris shooting......
[Re: Emjay]
#1521563
13/01/2015 19:56
13/01/2015 19:56
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 16,834 Auld Reekie
Edinburgh
Club President, member225
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Club President, member225
Forum veteran
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 16,834
Auld Reekie
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Then I really need to work out where I have gone so wrong. Such heresies as loving your neighbour as yourself, laying down your life for your enemies, turning the other cheek, forgiving those who persecute you. I am not afraid of death but I am not seeking it. Perhaps I should have turned left at the end of the fanatics corridor, rather than right, as I feel much more inclined to ply people with tea and cake and put their interests before mine, than kill them.
I must be such a disappointment to so many, albeit not for the first time I am sure! It sounds like you are that sort of person anyway Emjay and that the religion for you contains happy coincidences. In music I see and am involved in something which involves harmony and not having to knock six bells out of each other - fanatics however will often by their very nature jostle to the front and force their views on an unsuspecting and adoring audience. The key to me is education but our country can't very well dictate to another how to school their children... oh wait, we have tried. We need to continue electing world leaders who will continue to try to solve international issues by dialogue rather than fisticuffs. Easy enough to say I know. Edit: Germany's Pegida movement is receiving an unexpected boost after last week's events, also a R4 interview with Danes had contributors bemoaning the non-integration of Muslims into the local culture. It's concerning how much anti-feeling is potentially being stirred up.
Last edited by Edinburgh; 13/01/2015 20:03.
BumbleBee carer
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Re: Paris shooting......
[Re: bezzer]
#1521570
13/01/2015 20:43
13/01/2015 20:43
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Pinnin
Unregistered
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Pinnin
Unregistered
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I have started and deleted this post many times....
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Re: Paris shooting......
[Re: ]
#1521577
13/01/2015 21:34
13/01/2015 21:34
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,595 angus, scotland
jimbob13
I need some sleep
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I need some sleep
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,595
angus, scotland
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I have started and deleted this post many times....
I know this feeling too.
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Re: Paris shooting......
[Re: bezzer]
#1521585
13/01/2015 22:24
13/01/2015 22:24
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Big_Muzzie
Unregistered
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Big_Muzzie
Unregistered
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Do not rejoice when your enemy falls, And do not let your heart be glad when he stumbles.
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Re: Paris shooting......
[Re: jimbob13]
#1521595
13/01/2015 23:34
13/01/2015 23:34
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,252 Windsor/ Reading
knight7660
Competition Level
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Competition Level
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,252
Windsor/ Reading
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I have started and deleted this post many times....
I know this feeling too. I know the feeling aswelll
LE53 (452BHp & 389ftlb's with Quaife) Wine red VIS FOOFY Audi RS4 B7
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Re: Paris shooting......
[Re: knight7660]
#1521610
14/01/2015 01:37
14/01/2015 01:37
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 16,834 Auld Reekie
Edinburgh
Club President, member225
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Club President, member225
Forum veteran
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 16,834
Auld Reekie
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I have started and deleted this post many times....
I have started and deleted this post many times....
I know this feeling too. I have started and deleted this post many times....
I know this feeling too. I know the feeling aswelll Sensing creeping censorship here.....
BumbleBee carer
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