Some of the views being expressed here are starting to sound like far right extremist propaganda

As expressed previously it is my view that any move by civilized western democracies to single out any one group, based upon their creed, colour, race or religion, would hurt and effect ordinary people far more than anyone else. I further suspect it would create a greater likelihood of more people becoming radicalised. It would also significantly undermine our values of fair treatment for ALL.

Can I challenge those people who think things need to change to propose what solutions and actions they feel should be undertaken.

Can you believe it ? my income tax return form has been sent back to me because, in response to question 4, "Do you have anyone dependent on you ?", I replied "2.1 million illegal immigrants 1.1 million crack heads, 4.4 million unemployable Jeremy Kyle scroungers, 900,000 criminals in over 85 prisons,
+650 idiots in parliament and the whole of the European commission," They said this was not acceptable answer! So who the hell did I miss out.

not on topic, but made me laugh

Looks like the end is nigh............

This is the mistake people keep making. We don't live in a civilised democracy. Hell, we don't even live in a democracy!

To find answers , first ask the questions

a. Why are schools so overcrowded
b. Why is the NHS creaking
c. Why are there not enough houses in the country
d. Why is the benefits bill so high
e. Why do civil servants not get a pay rise anymore [ couldn't resist that one ]

ANSWER-- 6 million extra people in the country than there used to be --not rocket science , is it
Like my broom cupboard, time for a clear-out..or if you vote liberal or labour, just leave the door ajar and go and do something else !

In a literal sense you may be correct DTM. But in reality we have what is intended to be one, flawed yes, but preferable to other forms of power-wielding or political styles that exist in other countries.

Having lived under martial law, police bribery (worn the t-shirt), trigger-happy soldiers, food shortages, no national health and a lot more I would say we don't do so badly.

Not that it's ideal which is why it's healthy to see political parties of different persuasions getting stuck in to try and keep a balance.
Even UKIP and SNP, within which there will be 'fundamentalists' who bring their party into disrepute, but also those who are trying to find a way to protest against an imbalance in their area.

I fear I'm getting off topic, and thankfully the French seem to have all but wrapped this incident up.

Back on topic, looks like the sieges are both over.

...and may they rot in Hell.

Gosh, Glenn, you might have found your perfect match in Daniel!

I fear there will be some hostages in the supermarket who have not made it out. these attacks seem so random that trying to prevent them is nigh impossible. The intelligence services need to step up their efforts to weed out these radicals of whatever persuasion and keep the public on side.
One things for certain these sort of attacks are what IS must be dreaming for in causing publicity and disruption in equal measure.

So I asked for SOLUTIONS and got QUESTIONS



So you offer one hint of an idea / solution. Care to expand upon how we would apply / achieve this "Clear Out"?

Katie Hopkins surely ...some of us speak out , where the masses keep their feelings quiet.
Would love a pound for every person i've met who says " i'm not a racist, but... ". Would be well minted now and that's from all classes of society who keep their thoughts confined to the safety of their own home, but are beginning to take it the ballot box.

after cremation obviously !

So its Muslim terrorist doing the killing in every country and the west should sit back and do nothing so more people wont be radicalised . Hows that going to work ? I listen to LBC here in London and nearly every caller whos of the same religion as these nutters start off with "i dont support thses killers BUT . Seems like we have a bigger problem than people will let on .

maybe we should just bury our heads in the sand [ like European governments]. Failing that, we could put flowers in our hair and start singing " i'd like to teach the world to sing...."[ or get t-shirts made up of 2 different race people drawing a heart ].Peace , man .

Maybe so, but it good to differ in opinion yet not shout or name call don't you think Simon? Like normal civilised adults!

The take over of the world may be easier than you think,these militants have equal rights, in Europe are protected by all the same laws as you and I plus more as they are a minority. They also have the mentality that the west had 150 - 300 years ago when empires were built. They have the balls to do it, we no longer have the Churchill spirit. There's so much tape, bullshit and idiots who think you can talk to the angry man with a gun who doesn't value his or anyone else's life.

Is it strange that their appears there are no terrorists acting in the name of atheism?

They all go to Europe on holiday, get drunk and cop off / fight there instead!

Good result. There will be future problems, they won't be increased one iota because these [cloud9] have been "martyred".

Good? Innocent people have died.

I thought you were being obtuse, then realised my post may have been a touch open. Given that the hostages were never going to walk free, the outcome was almost the best result the French could hope for. Unless of course you thought the cold blooded killer of a female cop had no intention of hurting anyone?

There is always differing levels of possible outcomes.

My personal opinion is that the best possible outcome would have been that the they were captured alive to stand trial (this is what makes *us* better than *them*) and no innocents were hurt. (I fully accept that given the want for martyrdom this was always going to be difficult/unlikely).

If this couldn't be achieved then dead scumbags and live hostages would be next on the wish list.

Any levels below that then we're on damage limitation.

Just for clarification
*us* means civilised human beings, including but not limited to atheists, muslims, (hell, seeing as it's just after the season of goodwill) even christians.

*them* means murderous scumbags, including some (but not exclusively limited to) muslims, christians and, much as it pains me to type, atheist northerners (just don't be putting me in the MoatBoat).

I can also accept there is more of the murderous scumbags of late that want to pin their lunacy on the muslim banner but as said above it doesn't mean that all muslims want this. Yes, historically Christianity has got itself up to all sorts of mischief but none of that is recent. It's not as if we had decades of troubles pinned to different Christian factions including terrorism against innocent civilians on our soil in anyone's living memory here is it? Oh, hang on....

Let me make one thing very, very clear. I have no problem with any religion/ethnic group. Every group (even,at a stretch, Pompey supporters) have a large majority of decent people. Those that are scum would always be.

I have a serious problem with terrorism in any form. I would happily shoot any terrorist summarily. In fact I would support the dawn lift and disappearance that WOULD HAVE PREVENTED THIS. All of those were known as a threat. They were given the chance to show why they'd been identified as a threat. It cost some 17 or so lives. Liberals will consider that a justifiable risk to maintain civil liberty. Sadly, they are never the ones who face the consequences of their own liberal thinking.

Incidentally of those originally killed my sympathies lie with the coppers. 10 of the dead died as a consequence of working for an organisation which deliberately goaded radicals. 2 were doing their day jobs. The piccie posted by J_C was powerful, I'd already reposted on FB.

Hand's up don't know a lot about this, one question is are the guys on the left muslims also ?

My heart goes out to the families and friends of all concerned.

Yes he was, the point was he cared nothing about his Moslem brother he walked up to and shot. What he can't do is play to any gallery, the French took that away from him. Personally I would then have fed the bodies to the pigs in public.

Death by swine flu?

It's very difficult to express your point properly in cold words, even if you choose them carefully someone can always spin them!

Let's hope this whole fiasco is over and we don't get any copy cats.

Interesting to see how this pans out http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/technology-...res-war-4949878

Maybe if nothing else they may get some leads for the authorities to follow up?

A combination of the Middle Easts Military forces, the US, Australia, Canada, UK and European Armed Forces aren't really doing so well in stopping them but I'm sure some teenage computer hackers will have more luck. I'm sure some of these war gamers have many hours of virtual combat.

I'm not sure you can say that with any real authority.

Do you know the ethical viewpoint of every victim of 9/11 or 7/7? I would wager that are plenty of people who have been victims of terrorism in the name of a religion who would still agree that meeting violence with violence is not a good response.

I don't know any of the victims of the Charlie Hebdo shootings, but I'd be willing to bet that they are far more likely to be liberally minded than anything else.