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Re: Japanese GP [Re: ] #1510992
09/10/2014 06:32
09/10/2014 06:32
Joined: Mar 2006
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MeanRedSpider Offline
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Originally Posted By: Nello
Waved yellows before during and after the incident then Green once entirely clear of where the impact was. I can't see why that is not the obvious way of controlling speed through a danger zone. How can you let a driver accelerate away at the point where there may be a car/recovery vehicle and potentially an injured driver?


I still don't understand. You can't accelerate until you are past the green flag and therefore the incident. How does being even further down the road help? It wouldn't have helped this or any other incident a jot. As Jim says, the drivers need to respond to the original yellow flags. I could possible understand it if you said they needed to wave yellow flags at marshal stations even further BEFORE the incident but after is pointless.

Re: Japanese GP [Re: bezzer] #1511001
09/10/2014 08:53
09/10/2014 08:53

B
Big_Muzzie
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Big_Muzzie
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Double yellows should mean more than caution, if the next step is red then there should be a limit imposed. No more than x% of race v-max for the section, x being >50% and race v-max being the quickest time set through the yellow section.

After all we are debating drivers safety for the sake of the drivers and non paid volunteers who help these drivers for the love of motor sport.

On the above point MRS is totally correct, cars do not spin off and go against the direction of travel, it's not possible, so why would you want to extend the danger zone after the event?

Re: Japanese GP [Re: bezzer] #1511027
09/10/2014 12:27
09/10/2014 12:27

N
Nello
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Nello
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Clearly the current flag system does not work...
Perez:
"Those situations are very difficult," he said. "You expect the tractor to come quickly but in my opinion yellow flags were not enough to clear up the accident because of the situation on the track at that moment."
He said that drivers slowed down as little as possible even for double yellow flags.
"You know you have to show a lift of the throttle to the FIA," Perez said.
"But if we are honest we know we want to lift as little as possible and go as fast as possible.

Re: Japanese GP [Re: bezzer] #1511028
09/10/2014 12:41
09/10/2014 12:41
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Indeed and the responsibility for slowing for the flags rests with...?

Re: Japanese GP [Re: bezzer] #1511031
09/10/2014 13:03
09/10/2014 13:03
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OK, my previous answer was a bit simplistic; responsibility for how fast the drivers go past yellow flags of any sort is shared between the drivers themselves, their engineers, the team principals, the GPDA and the FIA.
Do read the entry in Gary Hartstein's blog entitled "Before the reform frenzy starts" and specifically the section about flag discipline. It couldn't be more clear. In my opinion, anyway.

Re: Japanese GP [Re: bezzer] #1511036
09/10/2014 13:40
09/10/2014 13:40
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Yup - certainly at my level in motorsport, you just obey the flags because you know that there's a risk you will hurt someone or yourself. In F1, with the pressures involved, maybe it is asking a bit much to expect the drivers will do more than the absolute minimum to comply. Unfortunately, the result of the drivers (after all, they are the only ones with their foot on the gas pedal) not complying with the intent of the rule is incidents like this. Personally I think it's a little rich of Perez to start pointing fingers elsewhere.
Whether a technical solution can be found I don't know. The problem is that circuits and conditions require very different responses. That's why drivers have ALWAYS been responsible as they are best placed to judge and react accordingly.

Re: Japanese GP [Re: bezzer] #1511037
09/10/2014 13:46
09/10/2014 13:46
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Yes, I thought Perez might want to take a peek in the mirror after those comments.
A technical response is bound to be possible, but the fact that it may be required demonstrates more about F1's distant and diminishing relationship to the "sport" bit of motorsport than how clever the FIA's ability to enforce it might be.

Re: Japanese GP [Re: bezzer] #1511038
09/10/2014 13:52
09/10/2014 13:52
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The problem comes with what observing the flag means. If it is slowing down that is not enough, it it means being prepared to stop that will change with the conditions/circuit. If a driver slows down how much is enough, I would suggest it is impossible to answer and what it someone piles into the back of you as a result. Leave to the drivers to determine speed and they will do the absolute minimum to obey the flag being waved.

Re: Japanese GP [Re: bezzer] #1511051
09/10/2014 15:06
09/10/2014 15:06
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MeanRedSpider Offline
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Well, it's like many of the other issues - I think the stewards will need to rule in it in a case-by-case basis

Re: Japanese GP [Re: bezzer] #1511252
11/10/2014 08:38
11/10/2014 08:38
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MeanRedSpider Offline
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This on the Beeb

"Whiting said the FIA would also consider putting 'skirts' around recovery vehicles to ensure it was impossible for cars to go beneath them. He also said that a green flag seen waving close to the accident site in videos of the accident was correctly displayed.

That was because the recovery vehicle had gone back past the relevant marshals post, which indicates the track conditions beyond that point, where there were no hazards."

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