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Re: "Should Scotland be an independent country?"
[Re: Jim_Clennell]
#1507180
10/09/2014 22:39
10/09/2014 22:39
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,783 In the coupe.
magooagain
Club Member 259
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Club Member 259
Forum is my life
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,783
In the coupe.
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I was chatting to a fella from Abberdean that works in the oil/gas industry (cranes). He has been out in Angola for 16 years working. He reckons he will be much worse of tax wise if its a yes vote as he gets paid into his scottish bank but is taxed like the rest of the uk. There must be thousands like him.
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Re: "Should Scotland be an independent country?"
[Re: Barmybob]
#1507191
10/09/2014 23:30
10/09/2014 23:30
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,086 South Cambs
Barmybob
Hon Club Member: 003
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Hon Club Member: 003
Je suis un Coupé
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,086
South Cambs
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Anyone would think that the No campaign doesn't want to win the vote, or is that the whole point? I am starting to think that the current UK Government actually want Scotland to say YES ![crazy crazy](/forum/images/graemlins/default/crazy.gif) Politicians spend a good deal of effort and money trying to be slick and convince people of their argument. The "Better Together" group and campaign has looked like a bunch of blithering idiots, and have seemingly gone out of their way to antagonise the Scots. It obviously has nothing to do with the fact that without the Scotts the conservatives would be unbeatable in 2015, would it?
Gone Audi mad!
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Re: "Should Scotland be an independent country?"
[Re: Jim_Clennell]
#1507255
11/09/2014 14:50
11/09/2014 14:50
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DanielTheManual
Unregistered
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DanielTheManual
Unregistered
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I was undecided until it emerged that a Yes vote would strengthen UKIPs cause, so let's go for that Yes shall we?
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Re: "Should Scotland be an independent country?"
[Re: ]
#1507256
11/09/2014 14:53
11/09/2014 14:53
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 16,603 Corridor of Uncertainty
Jim_Clennell
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OP
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Posts: 16,603
Corridor of Uncertainty
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I was undecided until it emerged that a Yes vote would strengthen UKIPs cause, so let's go for that Yes shall we? Not so bothered about the "UK" bit of UKIP then...?
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Re: "Should Scotland be an independent country?"
[Re: Jim_Clennell]
#1507284
11/09/2014 16:39
11/09/2014 16:39
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GrahamL
Unregistered
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GrahamL
Unregistered
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Got another one of the "Free money and cookies for all" pro-independence leaflets through my door yesterday. A choice of two futures.
A no vote means:
Scotland's wealth squandered by Westminster governments we don't vote for. Still living in the 4th most unequal country in the developed world. Another £25 billion of austerity cuts. Up to 100,000 more Scottish children living in poverty by 2020. Weapons of mass destruction on Scotland's soil. Broken promises on more powers for Scotland.
A yes vote means:
We can use Scotland's wealth to build a fairer nation. Scotland's NHS will be protected from creeping privatisation. We can spend money on childcare instead of Trident missiles. A lower pension age *and* higher pensions. The end of Tory governments we don't vote for. Decisions about Scotland will be made by the people who care most about Scotland, the people who live here.
Comedy gold. Watching many of the "yes" campaigners on TV, in the streets and coming around the doors it strikes me that they seem to see themselves as revolutionaries. They're fighting for a socialist revolution and the massive risk and gamble they're taking with the future of the entire country is obviously fully justified "for the revolution" (comrade) and the resulting socialist utopia which would naturally follow. Maybe MI5 will see it as an issue of national security and fix the vote, haha. ![laugh laugh](/forum/images/graemlins/default/laugh.gif)
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Re: "Should Scotland be an independent country?"
[Re: Jim_Clennell]
#1507334
12/09/2014 00:01
12/09/2014 00:01
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GrahamL
Unregistered
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GrahamL
Unregistered
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Re: "Should Scotland be an independent country?"
[Re: sugerbear]
#1507440
12/09/2014 19:01
12/09/2014 19:01
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,086 South Cambs
Barmybob
Hon Club Member: 003
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Hon Club Member: 003
Je suis un Coupé
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,086
South Cambs
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I bet Ukraine are pleased they don't have a nuclear deterrent. When Ukraine left the USSR in 1991 they inherited over 5000 nuclear weapons and thus had the third largest nuclear arsenal in the world. They took the decision to adopt the nuclear non-proliferation treaty and by 1996 had disposed of all their nuclear weapons - mostly to Russia! Looks like that strategy did them the world of good!
Gone Audi mad!
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Re: "Should Scotland be an independent country?"
[Re: Jim_Clennell]
#1507466
12/09/2014 21:25
12/09/2014 21:25
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 17,148 Auld Reekie
Edinburgh
Club President, member225
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Club President, member225
Forum veteran
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 17,148
Auld Reekie
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We've just received through our letter-box the following: "Wee Blue Book" compiled by Jim Sillars, formerly Labour/Scottish Labour party/SNP. "Rev" Stuart Campbell (JS has the stand-out quote on the first page) This as you might glean is a pocket-size tome which happens to be, one has to admit, one of the best-compiled and most concise summations of the pro-Yes campaign. It's easy to read and extremely to the point, debunking much of the propaganda (in the eyes of the Yes's) aimed against them. For example something like 27? of the daily papers available up here are owned by folk south of the Border, so no surprises which stance they're taking. Something like the good old BBC perhaps, that bastion of fair-mindedness, which is also clearly camped on the No side. (Last night's News 24 example.....a verbal statement that banks were locating their legal premises south of the Border, but at the top left-hand corner in bold letters in a red box - BANKS LEAVING... what are people going to believe?) Not to mention the Salmond - Nick Robinson interview recently which was economically reported. I have to ask, where is the similar handy companion for the No campaign? What's happened to the organisation? Don't they care? Are they slovenly? Or worse don't they have the factual content? Now I realise this makes me sound like a Yes voter, and hitherto I have been anxious about the effects on pensions, taxes and other mainly economic concerns. But it does really worry me how rag-bagged the No camp is, loose cannons like Gordon Brown and John Prescott being allowed to fire off while Salmond (even though there's a sneaking feeling he might be over-full of guile) is gliding through as a master-strategist and orator. You may not like him, but he is very good at his job. Oof, I'm sweatin'
Last edited by Edinburgh; 13/09/2014 00:17. Reason: author correction
BumbleBee carer
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Re: "Should Scotland be an independent country?"
[Re: Jim_Clennell]
#1507471
12/09/2014 21:46
12/09/2014 21:46
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 16,603 Corridor of Uncertainty
Jim_Clennell
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OP
Forum veteran
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 16,603
Corridor of Uncertainty
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I understand your point, Simon, but I have two thoughts. The first is that the yes campaign was always going to be more fun and sexy than boring old no and that combined with with staggering complacency has gifted the yes lobby a fighting chance. The second is that the Tories genuinely wouldn't mind losing the union for perpetual rule in the rest of the UK. I'm not a massive fan of The Economist and acknowledge its bias, but this article was quite good: http://www.economist.com/news/britain/21...nation-went-mad
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Re: "Should Scotland be an independent country?"
[Re: Jim_Clennell]
#1507477
12/09/2014 22:00
12/09/2014 22:00
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 611 Aberdeenshire,Scotland
Azzura
Enjoying the ride
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Enjoying the ride
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 611
Aberdeenshire,Scotland
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Jim Sillars - the lunatic who thinks an independent Scotland can nationalise BP and break up another country's banks, take anything he has written or compiled with a large teaspoonful of salt
Yesterday Sprint Blue 20VT,today Denim Blue TT225
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Re: "Should Scotland be an independent country?"
[Re: Edinburgh]
#1507481
12/09/2014 22:27
12/09/2014 22:27
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,655 Berlin
barnacle
Club Member 18 - ex-Minister without Portfolio
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Club Member 18 - ex-Minister without Portfolio
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Posts: 33,655
Berlin
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Something like the good old BBC perhaps, that bastion of fair-mindedness, which is also clearly camped on the No side. British Broadcasting Corporation, Simon, the clue's in the name... Besides, they just dropped a couple of billion on Pacific Quay and no doubt they'd hate to lose it.
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Re: "Should Scotland be an independent country?"
[Re: Azzura]
#1507487
12/09/2014 22:45
12/09/2014 22:45
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 17,148 Auld Reekie
Edinburgh
Club President, member225
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Club President, member225
Forum veteran
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 17,148
Auld Reekie
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Jim Sillars - the lunatic who thinks an independent Scotland can nationalise BP and break up another country's banks, take anything he has written or compiled with a large teaspoonful of salt Well at least it's something, which is not the case for the opposition. I have to confess an error, in my haste I said it was by Jim Sillars. It's not, it's produced by Rev Stuart Campbell, editor of Wings over Scotland.
BumbleBee carer
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Re: "Should Scotland be an independent country?"
[Re: Jim_Clennell]
#1507495
12/09/2014 23:25
12/09/2014 23:25
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 611 Aberdeenshire,Scotland
Azzura
Enjoying the ride
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Enjoying the ride
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 611
Aberdeenshire,Scotland
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Even worse, he's another lunatic who can't even be bothered living in Scotland - so at least he does'nt get a vote.
Yesterday Sprint Blue 20VT,today Denim Blue TT225
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Re: "Should Scotland be an independent country?"
[Re: Azzura]
#1507507
13/09/2014 00:12
13/09/2014 00:12
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 17,148 Auld Reekie
Edinburgh
Club President, member225
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Club President, member225
Forum veteran
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 17,148
Auld Reekie
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A stinks if so. Cameron's policies may not be popular but I'd be surprised if he was that twisted. Having said that his complacency over the issue beggars belief. B all very satirical. It doesn't cover the feeling that many Scots have had that their worth is very secondary the further south they go. Also that English who have taken up employment north of the Border tend to be forgotten by their southern counterparts. The latter happened in my father's case (to colleagues also); having been frequently engaged by orchestras all over the country to perform while he lived in London suddenly experienced a drop in requests when he accepted a full-time post at what's now the Royal Conservatoire of Scotland. In those days too, and countless will attest to this, one's Scottish currency was pooh-poohed and often refused - perhaps still questioned today - as not being kosher. What's the problem with education here, wouldn't it be more respectful to make sure all traders recognised the currency? Or was it just not important enough? There is an emotional issue here as well, if a nation is given the respect it deserves it's not going to turn away, and by gum there are and have been brilliant enough Scots to earn respect. Something like the good old BBC perhaps, that bastion of fair-mindedness, which is also clearly camped on the No side. British Broadcasting Corporation, Simon, the clue's in the name... Besides, they just dropped a couple of billion on Pacific Quay and no doubt they'd hate to lose it. Names change all the time - insurance companies for example - this one may need to. Britain would be composed of only England and Wales....quite a thought that other names may fall too. Even worse, he's another lunatic who can't even be bothered living in Scotland - so at least he does'nt get a vote. And it seems he is no Rev. either, just a blogger but industrious. It seems his wee book has aroused more than casual interest by journalists and politicians alike whether they agree with it or not. It doesn't resort to name-calling at least.
BumbleBee carer
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Re: "Should Scotland be an independent country?"
[Re: Jim_Clennell]
#1507550
13/09/2014 13:08
13/09/2014 13:08
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 6,144 Southampton, Hants
Roadking
Club member 1809
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Club member 1809
Forum is my life
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 6,144
Southampton, Hants
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Ian Blackford, Business for Scotland, has just been on BBC news. Apparently Business will be safe post Yes vote because financial institutions have stated they will move South of the border so will be protected by The Bank of England.
So it would appear that Scotland will be financially safe because they won't have Scottish based banks. Interesting policy.
"RK's way seems the most sensible to me". ali_hire 16 Dec 2010
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Re: "Should Scotland be an independent country?"
[Re: Jim_Clennell]
#1507552
13/09/2014 13:34
13/09/2014 13:34
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Pinnin
Unregistered
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Pinnin
Unregistered
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What I hope - as pointed out by MrsC - is that if there is a yes vote that the remainder of the UK does what it can to support an independent Scotland, rather than childishly taking the bat and ball home. The no side may believe the UK stands a better chance as it is, but nobody would benefit from a Scotland that failed to make the most of its new status, especially if that were due to sabotage.
I would love this to be the case Jim however, having read what my English pals are posting on Facebook there does seem to be a bit of spite developing over the temerity of us Scots.
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Re: "Should Scotland be an independent country?"
[Re: Jim_Clennell]
#1507556
13/09/2014 14:31
13/09/2014 14:31
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 6,144 Southampton, Hants
Roadking
Club member 1809
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Club member 1809
Forum is my life
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 6,144
Southampton, Hants
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Jim You are assuming only those on the march support their beliefs. I've read enough anti-English vitriol which at times makes me think " ![cloud9 cloud9](/forum/images/graemlins/default/cloud9.gif) them let them all just ![cloud9 cloud9](/forum/images/graemlins/default/cloud9.gif) off" so pointing the finger at English posts is not indicative of a general anti-Scots feeling. I'm still firmly in the we should remain one camp (despite the very attractive sweetener of a reduced Labour vote). However I do like the idea of further devolution across the UK.
"RK's way seems the most sensible to me". ali_hire 16 Dec 2010
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Re: "Should Scotland be an independent country?"
[Re: Jim_Clennell]
#1507558
13/09/2014 15:12
13/09/2014 15:12
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 6,144 Southampton, Hants
Roadking
Club member 1809
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Club member 1809
Forum is my life
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 6,144
Southampton, Hants
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We would all be better off treating our neighbours with respect; recriminations won't make either country more profitable (or viable).
Absolutely. On a more important note has anyone decided if the "an Englishman, Scotsman and Irishman" jokes will still be valid?
"RK's way seems the most sensible to me". ali_hire 16 Dec 2010
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Re: "Should Scotland be an independent country?"
[Re: Jim_Clennell]
#1508193
17/09/2014 19:17
17/09/2014 19:17
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,783 In the coupe.
magooagain
Club Member 259
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Club Member 259
Forum is my life
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,783
In the coupe.
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May i take this opportunity to wish all of our Scotish friends on this forum the best of everything, which ever way the referendum voting goes.
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