Too much propaganda in politics, no one knows what's real or fake, truth or lie. I think the biggest reform we need is that of the press making shit up and parties trash talking others. Serious politics died years ago.

I hope a small party has a landslide victory, don't give a hoot which one, as long as it wakes the main parties up to real life.

I don't claim to be an expert in politics, nor did I even vote today (lost my voting slip) but I was totally amazed by the humongous list of parties - most of which I've never even heard of????

By that reckoning, to deliver said excrement to the bed sheets, would surely make Farage an arse hole?

Couldn't resist.

In this metaphor I would suggest that the UKIP favouring electorate are in fact the arse hole, they are after all the means of delivery; Mr Farage is merely the foul smelling aftermath.

Or if you stand outside any polling station and ask anyone going in to vote would they like closer ties with Europe (as the greens do) your answer will most likely be no . Nothing radical about that then .

Source?

According to recent YouGov polling (here), a higher percentage of people would vote to remain in the EU than to leave.

The same tracker also shows a high proportion of people think we'd be worse off as a country if we left and an even higher proportion of people think we'd have less influence in world affairs.

Margin of error is . Look at january 2014 of people who wanted to leave plus 21 % are undecided .Its a sliding poll over time either way .

Aye, its not Gospel obviously, but is certainly better than hear-say.

When do we think results will be in?

Robcoupe20vt - you chose just 1 issue on which to base your assertion that the Green Party isn't radical - the one issue that all the most reactionary parties view differently (assuming that the Tories would prefer to pull out of Europe, given free choice). Being radical doesn't mean automatically nay-saying the views of others, it's about the reasoning behind your choices.

This thread sums up perfectly the fact that a huge section of the UK population feel that our voting system is pointless. Take my area. Any vote today for ANY party other than Lib Dem is basically a vote for the Conservatives

Alarmingly many people seem to feel that placing a Vote for UKIP sends out a message for change, a protest vote

The truth is it doesn’t.

At best it affords some failed Lab/con dipstick, now UKIP politician, who will probably not attend most of the EU parliamentary sessions, a £150,000 salary. His lack of participation will mean that the EU will be less likely to be reformed, something it desperately needs.
At worst it will make the three other parties stronger. Yes they may knee jerk into offering tough talk on some pseudo issues that UKIP have raised. In reality though it just allows them off the hook of dealing with the real issues.

So, as a protest vote it’s a farce, those against REFORM (Generally conservative types) will argue that changing our voting system would allow loonies like UKIP to obtain power.

There really does need to be reform of our system. We need to be rid of first past the post system. Our politicians should represent the nations voting. In most UK governments since the war more of the electorate voted for something other than the government they had. MPs should represent our wishes, not theirs.

Also a "NONE OF THE ABOVE" option should be availavble. This would allow people to properly protest and not, as currently, afford some manipulative self interested single issue Fwit to piggy back his way to a job.

The media should be banned from backing any political party or type of party.
Parties should only be allowed to state fact, proper facts and not lying through statistical data.
Not a single person actually knows what're impact would be on leaving the eu, knows the real tax money wasted, the impact of immigration and emigration or even what the real crime numbers are.
How can even educated people be expected to make sound judgement on economic policies with all the bullshit about? Social aspects are more personal and could sway a voter as these are the direction you'd like to see the country go and not so fact based.
All political parties end up causing an issue for one group of society and favour another, there is very little chance of getting an equilibrium as that would mean agreeing to everything that everyone wanted.

They will be in after the weekend when all member states have held their elections.

I think almost everyone else hold theirs at the weekend.

They're being released on Sunday, according to R4 this morning.

UKIP as a protest vote isn't about even reading their manifesto. They are the bogeyman worrying the Big 2, so a vote for UKIP would be used as an attempt to re-focus them. Remember the horror when BNP won 2 European seats in 2009?

I think some people need to wake up about the EU. Anyone that thinks it will be reformed is DELUDED.

The EU is a machine intent on absorbing as many countries as possible in order to enrich the unelected political elite and their cohorts. It's corrupt. There is no transparency. The court of auditors has not signed off the EU accounts for over 18 years! The money taken from us in taxes is being wasted on a vast scale, yet still we pump money into it...OUR hard earned money.

Perhaps all those seemingly in love with the EU would care to explain why they so desperately want to be a part of it?

Please sing another song Dan.

This is why i don't vote....don't know enough about it and even if i did, they never keep to their word so what is the point!

Plenty of good reasons here from independent, not-for-profit organisation EuroMove.

According to figures from 2012, the EU wasted around 4.8% of its budget that year (around £800 million of which was paid by UK tax payers).

Whilst this sounds like a lot of money, it represents around 0.12% of UK government spending (£676 billion, 2009/10 figures).

Given the various benefits to EU membership outlined in my first link, do you not think 0.12% is a reasonable "hit" to take?

Well I hope you are all very happy with yourselves for ensuring that UKIP plonker gets more air time!

If it wasn't for the World cup the TV would be knackered!

Well everything looks good and dandy So whats the downside of been part of the EU and dont tell me there is not one .

Ha! Clearly a pretty pro-EU website, so their claim that they are independent and not-for-profit is irrelevant. Let's take their page titled 'The UK in the EU – What They Say' where they pour out quotes from various sources why we should remain in the EU, yet offer no quotes from anyone as to why we should leave the EU. I've read what's written there and a lot of it is just not true or is scaremongering.

http://www.euromove.org.uk/index.php?id=6623

The major downside of EU membership is that we loose a certain amount of control over things such as our exchange rate, monetary and fiscal policy.

How big a deal this is, is obviously the subject of great many debates!

EDIT: DTM - I'm not sure how to continue a debate with you. I offer you politic bias as to why we are better off in the EU, I offer you the thoughts of an independent non profit organization who reach the conclusion that EU membership is probably a good thing and all you do is disagree with nothing to back up your opinions.

Flogging a dead horse?

The 4.8% only covers misspend on projects. This doesn't give the full picture. What about all other areas of the budget? Until the auditors give a full seal of approval, we'll never know. Pretty poor considering the EU have had 19 years to get their books in order!

And, you haven't mentioned the fact that the 4.8% is a 23% increase on the previous year's figure, the 3rd consecutive year it's risen. So what of 2013, and what's to come in 2014?

Sorry, DTM, did you accuse that website of scaremongering...?
Pot, kettle...

Every time anyone produces anything that isn't ANTI EU, you accuse it and the poster of bias. Given your repeatedly stated position, I think you might need to recalibrate your point of non-bias. You have proven, going back to the previous thread, highly adept at pat, smooth soundbites, but short on the kind of impartial evidence you imperiously demand from those who don't share your views.

It's very hard to argue in those circumstances - and nothing to do with the value of the arguments.

Another Huff post gem

one4seven, I have provided plenty of examples to back up my opinions, which you've ignored. Here is another: VAN ROMPUY: IF THE PUBLIC DOESN'T WANT EU EXPANSION, 'WE DO IT ANYWAY'

I ask you again, are you happy living within this dictatorship?

I suggest you read the comments section at the bottom as it really does raise some thought-provoking ideas.

So, let me get this right, DTM; you dismiss one4seven's website because it is clearly "biased". Yet the hilarious neo-con drivel you linked to is proper "evidence". I think this may go nowhere fast...

They are Van Rompuy's actual comments. I am stating a fact, do you deny he said that?

I am amused at how you resort to referring to my link as hilarious neo-con drivel in an attempt to discredit it, due to you having no counter argument to defend Van Rompuy's comments, and because it doesn't agree with your (liberal fascist??) views.

We can both post endless links purporting to show one side or t'other. The main point I was trying to make was that the way you frame a message distorts it entirely. The site you chose as a vehicle for Von Rompuy's words effectively negated what you were attempting to say. We both know that you can distort anything according to the message you want to give out. Watch some Cassette Boy videos - the people still say the words but the framing alters the message.
We're not going to agree on this, so let's leave it - I hope your worst fears don't come true, nor mine.

I would vote for Farage if he was true to his message and the first immigrants he got rid of were his own family. It's not just his wife who is German, his own family were German immigrants who ironically changed their name from "Schrod" during the First World War to avoid being lynched by the screaming bigots who were out to burn down anything that looked foreign. And they would have come into the UK without any form of immigration control, because despite the lies he and his nutjobs spread, there were NO immigration controls at all here until after 1905.