Here we go again...

I'll say 2-1 England, but it could be the same result in the hosts' favour.

Australia are definitely a better, more settled side than in the summer, and even then they should have made it a much, much closer contest. Who knows, even Mitchell Johnson might hit his straps on a regular basis and Harris could avoid injury... If Clark's back and Watson's hamstring don't give trouble and Bailey proves he's not a white-ball specialist, there could be a few more runs in the middle order.

There has been talk that England's top order can't score fewer runs than last time out, but that is stupid; of course they can.

I would be delighted if:

- Michael Carberry plays and makes a respectable score (he has really earned a break at the top level)
- Bairstow has to step up and does a good job replacing Prior (we really need to look at our succession planning for the keeper).
- Finn, Tremlett AND Rankin perform a decent job, (though I don't think any of them will be a revelation).
- Root continues to grow in stature. (He has shown he has the temperament, let's see him get the runs).
- Jimmy Anderson (or Swann or...) doesn't get injured. (We have to be prepared to lose Prior, another of the experienced match-winners would be a big blow).

If the above come true, and we do lose this series, there will still be plenty of very good players around to get revenge next time around!

The Aussies are certainly talking a good game, but like you Jim, I think we'll win the series. I'm going for 3-1.

As for the England team, I think they'll go with Tremlett as the 3rd seamer. Finn is way too inconsistent and I've not seen anything from Rankin during the warm up games that makes me believe he's better than Tremlett.

Fingers crossed Carberry has a good series. Would love to see him do well after all he's been through.

Slightly off topic, but I'm going to day 2 of the 5th test in Sydney

Also off topic; I hate you.

I'm dismayed at the way they're talking down Bairstow's wicket-keeping prowess. Of course Prior is the man if fit, but if he isn't then wouldn't it be more advisable to boost Bairstow's confidence with more positive talk?

Carberry could just have arrived at the right time - I get the impression Root is better down the order.

Rankin so far; nah, hasn't yet proved himself in reliability. Ok he's tall which is a threat to Aussie batsmen especially Michael Clarke, who's bad back doesn't allow him to duck easily, but I think as above that Tremlett will get a run even though he hasn't played for the team in a while.

Did I tell you I fly out 3 weeks today and am there for a month?

I'll endeavour to post a picture on here from the SCG

5-0 to Australia

I'm also going to Aus soon but unfortunately will be to late for the ashes. Bummer!

Nae chance cobber

Just over an hour to go

As @uscricket guy would say, LETS PLAY CRICKETBALL!

Not sure about the wisdom of playing Prior - if he does not last we will miss him. Badly. Id have had him as 12th man. Still, I think good calls for the rest of the team.

2-1 for me. Not predicting a result in this game, but lets see!

Broad's just had a Harmison moment!

Who cares now, well done Broady!

5 for Broad

But yet again we cannot get rid of the tail. This is becoming a real issue with the bowling approach. Needs attention, same happened in the summer.

I think we'd settle for having Australia 8 down for less than 300 on the first day of an Ashes series at the Gabbatoir though, wouldn't we?
I think the tail is much more likely to wag if there's a do-or-die situation. This has been the case often in recent Ashes tests, bringing out the stubborn best from players like Haddin in particular.

And it's not as if the England tail hasn't had its oscillatory moments.

After a flier of a start with 30 runs coming in as many minutes, to restrict Aussie to 273 by the close isnae bad.

Oh dear! Oh dear! Ooh dear, OH DEAR

Despite a lifetime of being let down by England, I never saw that coming. Puts a bit of a different complexion on things!

Nothing to see here, move along.............

Disaster.

Who was the bright spark that put ideas into Mitchell Johnson's head?

He bowls to the left, he bowls to the right, but he's actually pretty good.

Not sure there are any pluses whatsoever for England (Michael Carberry not getting a duck I suppose), but if (and it is a tiny, microscopic if) England save the game, it will really piss off the Aussies.

Not sure I understand why England's clearly decent batsmen have all had such a poor run of form, except Bell. And if you are always relying on one guy, sometimes it won't work.

Oh well, perhaps we've got our shocker over with early...

This could turn into a nightmare tour. Englands batting has not been that good since we last won the Ashes down under. Prior has failed too many times and needs a spell outside the team, besides we need to be bringing on a new wicket keeper anyway.

I do wonder if Flowers is the man for the job now. It is a very different skill in bringing a side together and taking them to the top as opposed to being at the top and staying there. The Football leagues are littered with managers who bring sides up through the leagues and then get a job at one of the established top clubs and fail miserably.

There are elements where England seem a little too cocky and many of the players a little too assured of their place in the team. Not playing Onions last summer was a prime example. He deserved it spot but there was an unwillingness to "drop" one of the established players. I also don't understand the treatment of Compton, he was one of the few who performed against New Zealand and was given far less opportunity to recover from a few home innings failures than the like of Bell. Bell has recently started to deliver but he had 3-4 years where he was a bit part player at best. Watching the Ashes highlights from 2005 on Sky and he does not figure at all.

Just my thoughts though

The truth hurts...

Well, we can't ignore it.

It seems that Australia's confidence pre-series was justified. Given that all of the players they were looking to to step up did so in style, it's an interesting question:

Are England over-rated average players who have just been lucky? Are they guilty of massive complacency? Have they been overtaken by an Australian side that has been UN-lucky?

England did not play badly on Day 1 - their performance (with the possible and worrying exception of Graeme Swann) was sharp and the bowling was hostile, accurate and effective. Once again, what has done the catastrophic damage has been the confoundingly appalling display by the batsmen. Why have the members of this unit of undeniably good (possibly even excellent) players failed repeatedly to deliver a fraction of their potential? Is it simply that they all have an achilles' heel that the Australian bowlers (especially a revitalised Johnson) have suddenly found and expoited with immediate effect? Or is it something deeper about their psyche?
I think here it was an innings too far for the middle/lower order to save the day, and the second innings was just shell-shock.
If England can come back from this defeat to draw the series and retain the Ashes, it will show that they are indeed a very special side. It looks a very tall order from here.

I absolutely disagree with bockers' suggestion that Flowers is not the right man to manage England; I don't think anything in his approach or methods indicates that he has done anything wrong.

Undeniably good though Mitchell Johnson was in this test, he isn't that amazing a bowler in world terms.

England have faced fast, nasty spells before and not been annihilated, so they need to remember how that works. And quickly!

I've been speechless over this performance which seriously smacks of a deeper psychological blow than the loss of the game itself. Trott in particular who is so immovable usually must have affected his team-mates with his loss of cool.

The mind-men now have to get to work before Adelaide which seemingly has gentler properties then the demon Gabba, and an improved performance there will be some way towards rebuilding confidence by Perth which is a quicker track.

Just as the legendary Jim Laker blew away 19 Australian wickets at Old Trafford, and Derek Underwood years later,
the combination of a peaking Mitchell Johnson and a pique-y pitch have undone the opposition.

It's now in the past, and as the Irish rugby team proved today against the All Blacks, a week's a long time in sport after last Saturday's iffy showing against Australia.

The Aussies now hold all the aces, this is a massive blow to the confidence of all the England players, the Aussies have beaten us up in every department, it's going to be fast wickets and throat ball all the way now. These will now be proper Tests (as they should be)

Let's face it, the results in the last 2 series have probably flattered us, and the result in this one game probably flatters them.

It's good to see the Aussie's taking it seriously and making a better fight of it, and let's see how well our guys respond in the second test

Could be a good series.

Trotty seems to be suffering stress problems and has returned home.

Yup, I just saw that Trott has flown home. I can only begin to imagine the stress of being an opening batsman at that level. Interesting that Warner has been heavily criticised for stating what turned out to be the truth, though I doubt he knew it at the time...

It shows that even players who appear to be nerveless and ice cool like Trott are actually seething with anxiety like everyone else.

Poor bloke - I hope he is able to return, but if Tresco is anything to go by, it won't be easy.

Time for the next guy to step up...

This is a great shame and I hope he can pull through although to successfully climb back to the levels of expectation and runflow of the last few years, well.......

The condition makes sense of his obsessive routines at the crease to control the anxieties and one has to admire the internal fight that must have been going on to get where he is.

I had heard that as a youngster he was talented but all over the place, a rash stroke-player who was his own worst enemy, but that he'd worked hard to counteract it.

Bell to no.3 now and Bairstow to step up?

I never saw him as that. I saw him as someone who used OCD rituals and routines in order to control his batting. I always worried he might have problems and hope he sorts them and returns refreshed. Last Aussie tour he was so focused on the routines that he often continued them when the session was over.

How will they re-structure the team?

Anyone who has been near stress illness will be feeling for Trott. This also demonstrates the lack of wisdom involved in picking out individuals for criticism outside the environment of the innings - you have no idea what they are going through behind the scenes.

Not sure what the new team will be, but it will get sorted out - If you can ignore the (stupidly) soft dismissals Cook, Bell, KP and Root were playing OK. For one test, I'm capable of putting it down to nerves and the heated environment of the Gabba. Plus it is quite possible that Johnson will be pinging balls in all directions at Adelaide.

I'm more concerned about Prior than anyone else. He is the bedrock on which our lower order performances are built. If he has swagger, so do they. I'd be seriously tempted to drop him, because its not working at the moment. I'd be doubly tempted if it were Summer and I could get him playing County Cricket - maybe we can find somewhere in NZ or SA for him to go and play. I know the Aussies think Bairstow is a walking wicket, but then so is Prior at the moment.

Then that leaves the gap in the Batting. Play Gary Ballance and call James Taylor up as cover?

I agree that Prior needs a rest. He had a terrible summer and the winter is looking the same. Let Bairstow keep wicket I say.

On the stress front I feel for Trott and do think the ECB need to look at Englands scheduling. I moan if I am away on business more than a few days but 5-6 months year on year is just getting silly. Also, unbelievably I am a little tired of Ashes cricket, it is a tough series and if played every 3 years it is excellent. However we have played so many times that I struggle to remember playing anyone else.

Moving to Sky and Annual ashes events is not a long term recipe for the good of the game, which is what the ECB should be protecting rather than grabbing short term cash.

[/rant]

I think it is noteworthy that England have lost 3 top players to stress-related illness in recent years. I seem to remember there was a South African who may have had similar problems, but other than that I can't think of anyone from other countries. Do England have a more punishing schedule? Are we putting our players under more pressure (through the media), is there something in the England set-up that recognises the issue and allows players to be open about it rather than carry on until they are ruined or are we just a bunch of big girls' blouses?

It doesn't look like a coincidence to me that two of the victims are opening test batsmen.

I wonder whether it will ever be possibly to achieve the intensity required to be a repeat winner in international cricket and yet be able to be relaxed enough to enjoy the game - if you are that kind of person.

I hope that in a bizarre way, this galvanises the team and brings them closer together. Undoubtedly they are a group of very fine cricketers, with the talent to match the Aussies. You don't become bad players overnight, though as Trott proves, you can become incapable of giving your best.

Prior is an interesting case; if he is suffering in the same way as Trott, the pressure on him now to be "strong" will have doubled. If we are to believe the psychologists, Prior is one of the 3 players that thrives positively on conflict (according to Broad, he and Pietersen are the other 2), but that may not tally with the relentless pressure put on you by yourself.
Prior has doubtless been on a bad run with the bat, but his keeping has been ok. In a way, it would have been better if he'd missed the Brisbane débacle and Bairstow could have had a chance, although of course he would have been dropped like a hot brick now! I don't think England will want to lose any other of their old guard, so my feeling is they won't drop Prior.

I may well eat my words, but I'm looking to England to come back hard from this defeat; Mitchell Johnson has found his mojo (in truth England have just been very lucky he's been so inconsistent against us in the past - ask other nations how good he is), but England know they are now in a battle. I got the feeling that once the Gabba test was beyond the tourists, they just wanted to get it over with without expending too much energy and draw a line under it.

As long as the series contains good, hard, close cricket, I'll be happy. If England win, I'll be delighted. Isn't that how the Ashes should be?

Yes, but aren't we having just too much Ashes cricket at the moment? It is arguably the most intense series and rivalry in English sport, especially when each games is played over 5 days. The closest Football gets is the World cup and that is 2 months away every 4 years, even then it is in Europe quite frequently.

I completely agree, bockers, that the Ashes should be every 2 years at most. As far as I know, this year is very unusual in that the scheduling of the World Cup has led to 2 series "back-to-back". If this were to become the norm, I'd be joining you in being horrified.

Opponent-fatigue happens in a normal summer with tests, ODIs and T20, when you seem to have been playing West Indies or South Africa or India forever, so this has just been magnified to a saturation point.

The only thing saving this series from being overly dull is that it might be close.

Looks like Bresnan may be back in time for the second test. Cometh the hour...?

Could do with a bit of unglamorous grit in the side and it seems his bowling is not bad for someone with a fractured lower back!

Would you drop Prior, play Bairstow and Brezza or keep Prior?

I'm not sure about moving Bell up to 3 either, although I wouldn't shift KP if possible; he has enough trouble at the moment without forcing him to play where he doesn't want to. So that leaves Root as the opener again...

I may eat my words, but I'm definitely looking forward to the second test - this is where England have to show why they are considered a good side. Perhaps Trott's inability to play to his best has been affecting the team, possibly subconsciously realising they were shielding a wounded comrade.

I'll be interested to see how well Johnson plays throughout the rest of the series; if one or two of the England batsmen (I'm looking at you, KP) climbs into him a bit, I think his confidence is quite brittle and it could see him revert to inconsistent type; he may do that anyway, regardless.

I also think the sledging "controversy" is rubbish; Warner said some things off the field that pros regard as out of order and he apologised for that - nothing to do with Trott going home. Everything on-field is (as Stuart Broad, recipient of the worst abuse, says) part and parcel of Ashes cricket. I don't think Jimmy Anderson would have gone crying to the umpires about Clark's "broken arm" comment. I imagine he will just be trying to dish it out next time with the ball and with words.

Come on England, make a series of it!

Seconds out, round two!

Massively hoping for a much-Improved England display. Even Wednesday managed a win this week...

Michael Clarke is feeling bold - he's not only picked the same winning team but England's team as well!

Interesting to read players' views on sledging this week, also the borderline which is understood (in theory) and not to be crossed. We'll see....

The first test was payback time for the infamous Bodyline series all those years ago - come on Poms, show us your mettle!*

*originally a request given to stone-grinders who picked up metal shards in the backs of their hands during years of cutting grooves in mill-stones - if you were experienced it showed upon inspection.

By the way.

Well, I've woken up to better news, but it's not too bad. For a placid pitch, getting them 5 down for under 300 on the first day is not a disaster.

Eurgh...

Sleepless...

Hopeless...

Anyone want a ticket for day 2 of the 5th Test in Sydney??

Full circle

Mouth, open, big, why.....

After last night's antics it's difficult to choose which was more uncomfortable to listen to, England's batting debacle itself or Geoffrey Boycott's characteristically uncompromising summary.

A big dilemma for captains and coaches -

1. "go out there and express yourself/be bold and confident" or

2. "use your brain/play according to the conditions/follow your technique"


Bell should have batted no. 3 but that wouldn't make up for the abject display against this one-man hurricane Johnson whose extra 4/5 mph is enough to make the difference between seeing the ball or being battered with it.

After the inevitable capitulation against the Aussies in the next two days England could really do with recovery time.

Ah but it's back-to-back tests...

worried that this could be a whitewash for the Aussies!

I best start severing my ties with our friends from Queensland to avoid the inevitable abuse!

In my mind I had come up with what I thought would the score when I woke up. I thought I was being pessimistic, but I was still 100 runs too generous to England.
Just goes to show, England have been very lucky with Mitchell Johnson!

You have to conjecture at times - is there some fixing going on? Alasdair Cook doesn't normally do this sort of thing.

Lost for words over these two performances.

For me the main man, love him or hate him, is Boycott. He's the one that would get the mindset right, or as he's clearly not going to be engaged as part of team England, someone's needing to borrow his doggedness, cussedness, whatever you call it and drill it into the batsmen.

Our bowlers - Anderson's ability to swing in English conditions isn't effective, Swann is looking ineffective and being out bowled by Monty Panesar who's a second-in-line.

New green shoots are going to have to ripen, in Joe Root there is potential after his showing the 2nd innings, a steeliness absent in most of the others.

And another thing, let's get a few of our mods over there to replace the umpires who don't do the decent thing and put a halt to the peppering of tailenders like Monty with bouncers.
I didn't see it but apparently he took a barrage of hits, on body and head.

Team for Perth...?

Cook
Carberry
Root
Pieterson
Bell
Stokes
Prior
Bresnan
Broad
Anderson
Finn

I can't see any alternatives to the batting order, and Stokes showed enough with bat and ball to keep him in. Tempted with Bairstow/Ballance to keep wicket as with this team the keeper won't be standing up much! Finn needs to play to rough the Aussies up at bit alongside Broad; he's the only one with any real pace. I don't see us needing a spinner at the WACA, and Root/Pieterson can provide a little fiddle if required. Swann seems shot, and Monty will be a liability in the field. I'm worried that without Trott and Swann the slip fielders look a bit light, but Root and Bresnan are both capable catchers alongside Cook and Anderson is brilliant everywhere.

Comments??

Undoubtedly changes have to be made, but it is a shame they have been ignominiously forced on England after such shocking displays. Swann just looks incapable of penetrating the Australians' mental defences, which was for so long where he prospered so I'd be inclined to let him sit this out. As you say, Tim, no point in a spinner in Perth really anyway.
Prior may just have recovered a little bit of form, you'd always want Brezza in for a fight like this and if Finn can lose Mr Nice Guy, it might at least give the Aussies something to chew on.
I really just hope that England make a game of it. It is time to shake things up and maybe it will be the making of some players (Root, I'm especially looking at you!)

Here we go again. Added spice that both captains start their 100th test tomorrow.

I absolutely don't believe that England will play as badly in this game. I don't believe they will win it in spectacular style, either, but if they do manage not to lose or to sneak a win, it will make for a much more interesting final 2 tests.

I want to see evidence of some pride and fight.

Just wanted to capture that before the calamity occurs

I just can't see us pulling up our socks. One of the reasons is i do not see Cook as a man to drive us out of the ditch. I hope i am wrong (I often am) but he is so bland in interviews i can't see him crushing a grape even.

I often disagree with Boycs but in his latest diatribe about the players in the team being too confident of their places bore some truth. Small things like not playing Onions last summer when it was a no brainer, sticking with Prior when his form is terrible.... and more.

I hoep we win this game, if we don't then some senior heads need to role and we give the rest of the touring party a chance to show their metal.

It's tough - in team selection you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. I agree that playing Onions last summer seemed like an absolutely obvious choice, but in other circumstances, sticking with a player in a bad run of form can revive them faster.

I don't agree about Cook; I think he can lack imagination in his captaincy, but that will mostly be because he (and Flowers) will have a plan that they will want to stick to. Generally, it has been a successful recipe. However, inside, I think Cook is as steely and determined as any of the side. He may seem very bland, but I think he can still be inspirational.

England's collective head has been scrambled - principally by an outstanding burst of form from Mitchell Johnson - and it needs strong, calm leadership (preferably from the front) and for the rest of the team, both experienced and youngsters, to show grit and fight when batting and fire and discipline in their bowling.

Oh dear, toss lost again, two toiling days in the field beckoning

Swanny still in, Monty out, probably because of his fielding, Brezzer in, ok.

Boycs is now not happy that Finn isn't considered, because he knocks the stumps over. Omg, we have to listen to an already-grumpy Boycott over the period..

I was led to believe changes were going to made?

Well, that's only the second morning of this series when I haven't groaned on checking the score. Although of course, England threw away what looked a promising position then.
The Australians look hell-bent on taking on everything England throw at them and for once this series it hasn't quite worked so far...
A couple more wickets today and England will be happier, but at least they seem to be a bit more confident. Mind you, they haven't got bats in their hands...

Oh dear, Australia off the hook again. We just don't have a bowler who can rough them up. Bresnan was steady, but although Swann picked up a couple of wickets Clarke and Warner gave them to him and he never looked like either getting anyone out or exerting any control.

At 143-5 after the first five batsmen had got themselves out we needed an X-factor bowler to press home the advantage. Finn at 6 foot plenty and 90mph would have had a chance..... I wouldn't buy a ticket for day 5!

Trouble is, Finn is not exploiting his evident ability. You'd have been taking a massive risk playing him at the WACA with this fast outfield.

True though, England don't have a scary bowler to rival Johnson.

Rather like England in recent series, the Australian middle order has stepped up to bail out the top. Hard to see England winning from here, but stranger things have happened.

I can't understand the Root dismissal.

DRS is all very well but not at the expense of common sense.

The guidelines are that there needs to be clear evidence for the umpire's decision to be overturned.

Well if there is no hotspot mark or snicko indication apart from a wobble that might show someone has coughed, to me that's sufficient evidence the original decision was wrong.

Oh dear, the KP/Siddle combination has reared again, only the 10th time

I am waiting for a final burst from Johnson. It's like waiting for a dam to burst......

I'm very happy the way things are going in this Series!!



Can't complain about the results, so far.

Things could be worse; you could be a West Indies fan.

Bell and Stokes did well to see it through until stumps, but there is that feeling of dread that the England tail are a set of dominoes just waiting to fall over. As Sir Geoffrey says, the Aussies aren't a great side, but England appear like a deer in the HIDs. I could not see either side making 150 on that pitch against Steyn, Morkel, Philander, Tsotsobe and Kallis.

I'm starting the think my slightly tongue in cheek prediction might come true!

The wheels are definitely falling off for England. You're going to have to bat for 5 sessions to survive this test...

Well, England can have no complaints. We have been outplayed in every department on and off the pitch.

Interesting how few DRS controversies there have been compared with other recent series.

Before England began their second innings at Perth....

Australia have scored 2152 runs in 6 innings losing 45 wickets. An average of 48 runs per wicket at about 3.8 per over.

England have scored 1050 runs in 5 innings losing 50 wickets. An average of 21 runs per wicket at about 2.8 runs per over.

Little wonder that England are about to go 3-0 down unless Bell and Stokes are still batting at tea tomorrow....

Little wonder that England are about to go 3-0 down unless Bell and Stokes are still batting at tea tomorrow....

If they are and we win Warnie will run around W.A.C.A naked ugh

Let the autopsy begin. Listening to a sports psychologist on Radio 4 and he made much sense, as did Geoffrey!

The bowling attack was lame, Swann was targeted and neutralised. Swing and seam have not worked and Tremlet has lost pace. Then there is Bresenen, but he has been out of the game for 3 months.

Last summer we had a great opportunity to bolster the squad and play a few new/old faces. That was not taken, the only way someone was out of the squad was through injury. None of the current squad have had to fight for their places recently.

If we play the same side in the next test then I will question the management.

So replace Swan with Panesar, you need a spinner and why not give Swan a rest. Peiterson out, he has talent but does not deserve his place. Prior out too, who is Englands back up keeper? Prior has now had to terrible series and yet has never been in doubt for his place.

One thing England miss is an attacking batsmen. There are at least 3 in the Aussie side and it is something that NZ had too. With Pietersons lack of form we have no one that scares the oppo or can score at a run a ball in test cricket. This was a great England side but Cook and Flower had done no succession planning. In sport the master at this was Alec Ferguson, take a hit for a season whilst you get new blood in and then hit the top again a year later. To be fair the fixture schedule has not helped but a bit more flair in selection is needed.

Loved Geoff's comments: "More brain in a pork pie!"

Ok looking at the positives..
Broad is the leading wicket taker and the only bowler the Aussies gave any respect, and that is despite him being booed and spat at wherever he went.

Stokes is a great find and one for the future. And that is it really!

Australia are not a great side but they have done their homework and sacrificed other games in order to regain the Ashes.

I still think Compton should have played ahead of Carberry.

I thought Cook was honourable in his assessment.

The narrative for this series was set last summer in England. England won 3 tests, but we were gifted all 3 wins by an Australian team still uncertain of its ability.

As Agnew said in one of his columns, losing to England in such a manner lit the fuse for the Australian players, coaching staff and public to get very angry and indignant and fuelled the determination to do something about it. Conversely, I think it not only baffled England that they kept getting let off the hook, but it stopped them from comprehending what was coming their way and preparing for a much sterner test. As important as England having one or two excellent passages of play (on deliberately prepared wickets) was Australia combining a bit of bad luck with comical bad judgement.

From Day 1 in Australia, the desire and determination to grind England into the dirt was evident. I can't think of a single session since the first day of the series that could be described as even, never mind in England's favour.

There are one or two positives apart from Broad still being a force; Stokes looks cut out for test cricket, Root has not had a happy time, but he's had the odd decent knock and I think he will benefit from a tough tour and... no, that's about it.

Try as I might, I can't remember the last time that Pietersen stood out and really saved or won a game for England. I know the stats are there, but he just doesn't seem able to do what is asked of him. Time for him to go, I think; I won't miss him.

Trott, I suspect will not return, so we are looking at some profound rebuilding at the top of the order that I don't think Carberry (talented though he is) can provide. I agree that Compton should be getting his kit ready - he is a more natural opener than Root, who needs more time in the middle order or possible replacing Pietersen.

Prior is a puzzle - I think he is probably the best keeper, but he is nowhere near where he needs to be with the bat. Although I understand why England do not like to drop players (and generally it is a good policy - in a winning side, at least), this is a good opportunity to look at alternatives in almost every position. Step forward Mr Bairstow.

I wonder if Swann might decide it's time to step down; he has had uninspired series before, but in this one, he's actually been a liability in terms of runs leaked. Can he recover? He'll be very sorely missed if he does go, especially when conditions suit him, but looking for a non-Panesar replacement would be a good plan.

Anderson I can only assume is knackered and raising the motivation to bowl your heart out when the batsmen are giving you nothing to defend must be hard - especially at his age. He might have another year or two, but I think he's played his last Ashes.

Cook? Young enough to recover, as long as he hasn't been burnt out by the captaincy.

All in all, it's going to be an interesting time between now and the next chance we have to win back the urn.

My team for Melbourne.....

Cook
Carberry
Bell
Pietersen
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Broad/Bresnan
Anderson
Finn
Panesar

I'm sorry to leave Matt Prior out, but he just seems shot to pieces - Bairstow's last test innings was a 90 - odd against South Africa who have a much better bowling attack than Australia. Swann is completely ineffective on the Aussie pitches (although he should be back for Sydney) and all the right handers in the Aussie middle order. Finn has to play (as he should have done in Perth) as he can TAKE WICKETS; I don't care if he goes for a few extra runs. I'd sooner him take 4 - 80 in sixteen overs than having Bresnan take 1 -70 in 23 overs. Stokes offers a capable back-up in the seam bowling department, and Finn can charge in in 3 or 4 over spells and just try to blast a wicket or two.

Regarding the batting I can't see any better available than we have now... they just have to do better. Kim Hughes during his lunchtime interview with Agnew made a very sensible point. KP plays great innings but is NOT a great batsmen. Great batsmen (Richards, Ponting, Bradman, Tendulkar) can play match-winning innings but also match-saving innings. KP cannot do the latter when the chips are really down as the ego still has to land somewhere. If one of his hook shots against Brett Lee in 2005 had landed in someone's hands England could easily have lost at the Oval and the series would have ended 2-2 (or if Warne had caught the dolly at slip when he was still in single figures). His innings in Mumbai was magnificent, as was his effort in Colombo, both of which turned the match England's way.....

We are really missing a well Trott. All the best for him, but I don't think we will see him in an England shirt again.

Just as an addendum to my last post, Australia's next Test Matches are against South Africa.... Good luck Clarke et al, but they will be smashed

Trouble is, I'm not sure Finn is going to get wickets even expensively. He's as much of a threat as the good old (bowls to the left, etc) Mitchell Johnson.

Stokes has definitely earned his place for the next 2 games at least. You'd be mad not to play Broad if he's fit, but I'm not sure I'd play Panesar over Bresnan. Root and Pietersen can do the spinning honours (they aren't expending much energy batting) and with Stokes, Bresnan, Broad, Anderson and Finn you've got 5 who can share the punishment. I agree that Prior needs a break. Not sure what he needs to get straight, but clearly something...!

I'll be interested to see how Australia get along against South Africa. Their tails are up and although getting motivated to batter us is clearly no problem, they'll fancy sticking it to SA as well, I'd have thought. You're right that it will be an altogether harder proposition, but you never know. Is Smith still injured?

Jim, Smith is fit and currently playing against India at Joberg... interesting Test Match too. You can catch up with it on ESPNcricinfo with live text streams.

I think we will need one specialist spinner at Melbourne and I'd pick Monty for the hell of it. We will probably need to play Swann AND Panesar in Sydney as it traditionally turns on that wicket. Prior is a real concern; I wouldn't yet think Bairstow has the experience to keep to the spinners on a bit of a bunsen and we really don't want to have to get 27 wickets to win a match.

Maybe now the Aussies have won back the Ashes our guys might just relax and play to their potential

I haven't followed the test series in South Africa, should really take a peek.

Might be worth picking Monty, I'd be amazed if England pick 2 spinners in Sydney, but it wouldn't be the first time!

With the Ashes gone, I'd be inclined to chuck Bairstow in and let him learn on the job. Although England might relax a bit and play better, the Aussies will want 5-0. Unlike England, they do have the ruthless streak, so it will still be hard-fought and competitive.

Oh well. Swann will not be playing in Melbourne as he has just retired from ALL cricket with immediate effect..... more to follow on the news

I had a feeling this was coming, though after the last two tests. Typical Swann to do something unexpected and headline-grabbing. I have nothing but admiration for him - although I expect some will be critical of the timing.
End of an era - maybe KP will call it a day too...

Yes I tend to agree about KP, he's got his 8k runs and has proved fairly conclusively that he needs to prove himself rather than the team.

Might as well go, difficult though it is to imagine cricket without his unique flair, while the whole team and its appearance of blasé-ness has a clear-out.

It's alarming to think that we have so few batsmen to call upon but I'd be interested in blooding some who have nothing to lose:

Cook
Carberry
Bell
Root
Bairstow
Ballance
Stokes
Bresnan
Broad
Tremlett
Panesar

1'd have really liked to see James Taylor in this set-up.

Having said this it can't be said that the selectors have ever shown signs of adventure, something which seems to have gotten into the team itself.

Hm, maybe a case for retaining Pietersen...

Graeme Swann has taken an apparent swipe at his former England team-mates saying unnamed players are "up their own backsides"

Well there's a cat amongst pigeons!

Let me see.....KP, Broad...for starters?

The wheels are not only falling off, the nuts are probably cracked

England could have done with some of those yellow pointy things on the wheels...

Swann claims it was nobody in the current England team. However, I can't imagine who else he could possibly mean; he's not referring to Sri Lanka...

Well, I think today's result says it all. Test cricket is a pitiless environment that relentlessly exposes weakness. Physically, but overpoweringly if you are not in the right place mentally.
I don't think suddenly banishing all 11 players will solve anything - it would just make us look like North Korea - but some players clearly need a break from the "game". The toll of "working" so hard for so long on what is (whatever the media may say) a sport has left England's players empty. Whilst they were winning (and last summer's Ashes really should have sounded the alarm), there was enough adrenaline to keep it all going. The desire of the Australians and their ruthless battering of the tourists in this series quickly blew away any residual enjoyment England were deriving from playing cricket. I totally understand why Swann left when he did.
I'm not sure how to re-discover the fun that fuels sport, but I'm sure the England management team will have the players working hard on it tomorrow morning...

That was almost unbelievably poor. Australia got 40 for the 10th wicket. Our last 5 scored less than 10.

The only good news is that after Sydney our next test isnt till May June...

86-1 to 87-4
173-5 to 179 all out

8 wickets for 7 runs, most of which were given away. Allowing Lyon to take five without getting the ball off the straight is unforgiveable. Bresnan's shot would have got me dropped from Linton Park 2nd XI.

The highlight of this Test was watching Piers Morgan being WELL sorted out by Brett Lee in the nets two hours after giving it large on TMS saying how he was going to smash him everywhere and accusing all of the England batsmen (Trott and Swann included) of cowardice. YouTube it and giggle

I don't remember sensing this much humiliation even in the bad old days of 46 all out against the Windies in the Caribbean all those years ago.

Is anyone suggesting skullduggery here? Of the sort in which a certain former SA captain was alleged to be involved?

I must admit when I saw the way in which Bell got out first ball, the thought certainly crossed my mind. The "shot" was so feeble it almost looked deliberate.

I think this speculation could give match-fixing a bad name.

At this rate we'll have a forum quorum.

Oh well, here we go again. It looks as if Carberry will be dropped and Root put up the order to open; don't agree. Bairstow will keep wicket again, and Ballance will be given his debut. Borthwick will also be given a go, but for goodness sake he is a part-time leg-spinner and could go for lots of runs on a traditionally spinner-friendly wicket. Anyone for Tredwell instead? The jungle drums are also going for Rankin instead of Bresnan. Anyone for Finn?

The team will be

Cook
Root
Bell
Pieterson
Ballance
Stokes
Bairstow
Borthwick
Broad
Anderson
Rankin

and should be (in my humble opinion)

Cook
Carberry
Bell
Pieterson
Root
Stokes
Bairstow
Tredwell
Broad
Anderson
Finn

Come on England!! (and Wales, South Africa, New Zealand)

Well bless my soul. I have no Idea what to think. But I think we might just lose...

Omg, Carberry instead of Root......that's a poser.

Root fields, bats a bit and bowls sometimes, Carberry bats well, deliberately

The other changes - why not, only one match too late.

Can't make sense of dropping Root.

Another typical day for this tour - start to build a reasonable position, then throw it away. I hope it doesn't spoil the debutants.

I blame Cook & Flower for this. I was up watching when we had them on the rack and Cook took men out of the slips to save runs!! FFS it's wickets we need. At least 2 more wickets would have gone down and the score would likely have been in the low 200s.

It is this lack of attack that will see us slip down the test standings and is so frustrating to watch. Look back at games we dominated and see the 5 slips and a gully for a good 20 overs.

Another day where England just ran out of steam. I just don't get the selection of Borthwick and Rankin. Borthwick's wicket (a wild slog by Johnson) was the first by an English leg-spinner in 15 years and the Aussies play leggies as well as anyone, especially when they chuck pies. Tredwell would at least have offered some sort of control - after all he is our ODI spinner. Rankin hadn't bowled in a match for over a month, and at least Finn has a track record of getting wickets.

Stokes, Broad and Anderson are going to get bowled into the ground in the second innings (provided the Aussies need one)....

One question. Nightwatchman, why?

A dodgy one. I am very divided on this. As an ancient but still playing opening batsman I did not appreciate having to go out to bat if we bowled the opposition out half an hour before the scheduled tea break. It just meant that you had to play yourself in one extra time. Also the bowlers could have a hell for leather burst for a short period of time before putting their feet up and getting their breath back for another go on the resumption.

In a Test Match I am in favour of a nightwatchman at the end of a day's play for the reason given above provided there are no more than a few overs to go. The fact is that very few balls from the quicks will actually hit the stumps - according to Hawkeye only two balls from Mitchell Johnson in Brisbane would have disturbed the timber!! Last night poor old Jimmy would have expected to prod forward at anything pitched up and get hit by (or sway away balletically) from anything else. Tomorrow morning the bowlers will have in their minds that they may have to bowl all day in the best batting conditions of the match, so MAYBE will be at 95% rather than the full Monty.

Sir Geoffrey would say that batters bat (or not) and bowlers bowl, and whatever you may think of him he is very often right. On this Sydney pitch if we get within 100 of the Aussie total I will be surprised and delighted. An early night and an alarm call at 23.15 will be in operation in Chatham tonight!

Agree with Bocker's comments regarding Cook. His captaincy has been very poor in this series. He lacks aggression and is too quick to adopt defensive fields which has let us off the hook time and time again.

England really need Cook and the other senior players to step up tomorrow otherwise my prediction when this thread first started of a 5-0 whitewash will almost certainly come true

Oh dear..... if there was a sofa in my bedroom I'd be hiding behind it. 14-3, and should have been worse. Thank heavens Jimmy got out whilst he was still breathing

There's something not right about this.

Can't see anything less than a top-down shake-up happening after the end of the match.....if nothing more headline-grabbing.

Shameful and embarrassing.

One amazing statistic..... in 5 Test Matches England have managed 969 runs total in the 1st innings. In Australia's 1st innings their LAST 5 BATTERS (nos 7 - 11) have scored 1071 runs total in 5 matches.

Also Englands top five batters have totalled 20 runs or less in FIVE of 9 completed innings.

If England fail to bat out the remaining 3 days in this test it will be the first time in Ashes history that they have lost all 100 wickets in a five match series.

Oh well, I am a masochist so will still be peeking out from under the duvet tonight.....

Another downside is how tired one feels at this time of day

I've never been so glad I can't afford Sky any more.

So. Shall I lock this now...?!

Pitiful is the only word that sounds apt.

Michael Vaughan has a point when he criticised the England set up, when we won an ashes series all the management and back room staff lapped up the applause and were on the pitch with the team. Not a soul to be seen today. I have lived through some highs and lows as an England cricket fan. This, from a top team, was unacceptable. No fight at all.

Who should stay? Broad, Stores and Anderson are the only three for me who can hold their heads up high.

Received a message from my brother in law who was at the SCG today saying it was so easy it was almost embarrassing. Sums it up really.

A dark day for English cricket but I must admit it felt good waking up in England this morning as an Aussie

The last 7 wickets went down in 10 and a bit overs for 79 RUNS . Utterly embarrassing. The only bright spark was the emergence of Ben Stokes, who topped the batting averages and took more wickets than anyone bar Broad. He will be the glue that will hold the team together for a few years to come - he can bat, bowls sharpish and gets wickets and seems to have the character for a fight.

Where to go now? The question marks are;

An opening partner for Cook. Carberry tried hard, Root isn't there yet and Compton seems to be out of the equation. Sam Robson? Shed loads of runs for Middlesex and a typical Aussie mentality.

KP - still has a few years left and has the X-factor if the brain is engaged. I agree with Vaughan who thinks he should be more involved in the decision making, and he is still the only player we have who can actually change a game.

Wicket keeper. Prior, Bairstow or James Foster? I'd give Prior another go but it is a close call.

Spinner. Monty has gone, bless him. Borthwick is never going to be the sole spinner in the team, but if his batting progresses his leggies will be a useful alternative option. Root is in the same situation although I suspect he could also tie up an end if required as dear old Ashley Giles used to do. Rayner, Moin Ali, Rashid? I don't know!

Seam attack. Broad is a shoe-in, as is Stokes. Anderson will also play this summer but how many miles does he have left. Bresnan is just a trundler, and the extra seamer needs to have the chutzpah to stick it up the batsmen if required. Finn is the obvious choice - there are a couple of young quicks coming through such as Somerset's Overton who is only 19 but cleaned up Watson and Haddin last summer in a tour match, and Mills at Essex who has played very little cricket but is damned quick and left-handed - our Mitchell Johnson? Rankin and Tremlett won't play for England again.

Depending on form and injuries who will play at Lords in June against Sri Lanka?

Cook
Robson
Bell
Pieterson
Root
Stokes
Borthwick
Foster
Broad
Anderson
Finn

Simples...!

Its really tough to stay away from words like 'abject' and 'appalling'. From memory we only turned up on 2 days - the first at Brisbane and the second at Melbourne. We then threw both away by crap batting.

I feel really sorry for any England fan who spent the money to go to Aus. I'm afraid you were cheated.

The other huge mystery is how the ECB can back the Flower / Cook pairing before they have even finished the series. How can that be? Surely there has to be some change?

For me, time to get a certain M Vaughn back into the England setup.

I'm not sure what needs to happen, but I think a number of the senior players need to question whether they have the desire to keep pushing themselves. Pietersen is only a game changer if he applies himself to changing the game. I think Bell still has a fair bit left to offer, as has Cook and Broad; Anderson has been a superb servant and I wouldn't begrudge him carrying on until he says enough, as I believe he will go before he allows his standards to fall. But he needs a rest.
Prior might decide he has given his best, as might Bresnan (who I have always rated). Carberry was both wonderfully lucky to have been picked to play in an Ashes tour and dreadfully unlucky that it was *this* tour. I doubt we'll see him again other than on a short term basis.
Panesar has obviously been discarded, but I wish we could have given him some dignity rather than just not selecting him even when there was no other option!
I can't see Tremlett bowling for England again, but then again, Johnson was washed up (in terms of Ashes cricket) and I think I can safely say he has turned that around. There should be encouragement for Finn in that too. I've never thought Rankin was a test bowler.
I believe that Root, Ballance and clearly Stokes will play a part in England's future; the quest for an opening partner for Cook continues, but eventually Root should make it.
The wicket-keeper conundrum continues...

This was a thumping, a drubbing, a caning, as humiliating a face-slapping as England have endured in my lifetime.

However, not all the England players are, or have become bad. Australia were regarded as facing a decade in the wilderness after this summer's flattering England win, but look at them now. I don't think individually they are a better side than England, man for man, except for Haddin and Johnson, and I think they'll be found out against the South Africans. However, they have turned round an apparently hopeless situation in 3 months.
England need to reflect, to be honest with themselves and to start to rebuild with a love for playing and enjoying the game of cricket at the core.

Hats off mate

I scoffed at your prediction back in November but you were spot on


I think it's all very well talking about individuals but this fragmentation of a side's confidence goes deeper. It's fairly clear how talented or experienced most of the England squad are but the Aussies have shown in their team mentality that it's greater than the sum of their parts.

It's this drive and positive thinking, leadership and man-management which has to step in here. An orchestra will respond to its conductor and students to their lecturer; the players will respond accordingly.

As far as the squad goes Onions is still a possibility although at 31 he won't have many seasons left. However if he can fill a gap while the next generation emerges well and good.

Pietersen - I don't understand the criticism. He top scored for us. Not much of an achievement, granted, but he played a number of innings of unusual (for him) concentration and patience. He can't change the game single handed, and its impossible for him to go on a 200no mission when we are being bowled out in 30-odd overs. We have not seen the best of Pietersen on this tour, but the circumstances did not allow. You also can't single him out as a failure when he has got out for single figures - its not like he was the only one to do so.

Personally I'm in the school of thought that says he should be Vice-Captain and have more of a voice. Clearly he can't be Captain - tried that, and it was a disaster - but he would not be afraid to challenge some of the more conservative aspects of our recent game.

Didn't think I'd be saying that after the SA debacle.

If you have a look at ESPN Matt Prior and Stuart Broad talked a man down from jumping off a bridge close to the Barmy Army party in Sydney (THIS IS NOT A JOKE, although it could be). The man concerned was from Cheltenham, so must have been someone who only had tickets for the last two days at the SCG.

We are reliably informed that it was not Andy Flower (who hails from Harare) nor Kevin Pieterson (jumping off a bridge would have been futile as he can walk on water).

Well I wasn't going to post on this thread again but just thought I'd say my day at the SCG was fantastic!

I originally thought we were due to go for the 2nd day of the test. But as is the way with my terribly disorganised BiL, we had tickets for the 1st day. The first day was one of the most entertaining days cricket I've seen in many years. A century, albeit from an Aussie, a 6 wicket haul for Stokes and to top it all, an Aussie buying me beer all afternoon! Slightly disappointing we let them off the hook by allowing Haddin to get a few runs again and Carvery playing a poor shot to lose his wicket before stumps.

The atmosphere was something to behold. I've been to all the test match venues in England apart from Durham and the difference is night and day. It probably had something to do with the fact they were about to whitewash us but the banter between both sets of supporters started at 10:30 and continued in the pub afterwards! We eventually 'left' The Cricketers Arms at 1am due to my BiL dancing on the bar with 3 Aussie supporters wearing Kangaroo suits and wearing a Traffic Cone on his head

One more thing, one of the guys in our group was a Pom and his name was Ian Bell. I gave him the URL for here and told him to look up Bockers

Excellent! Glad it was an experience to savour, even if the results were not exactly what English fans might have chosen.