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Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results
[Re: ]
#1409371
06/02/2013 21:46
06/02/2013 21:46
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tim42
Unregistered
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tim42
Unregistered
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Back on topic
After all peak power figures don't add inches to your Richard.
... especially when buried in a Leicester car park. Maybe we should just test our Coupe's DNA....
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Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results
[Re: ]
#1409372
06/02/2013 21:47
06/02/2013 21:47
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Barbz
Unregistered
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Barbz
Unregistered
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Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results
[Re: ]
#1409376
06/02/2013 21:52
06/02/2013 21:52
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johnnybravoturbo
Unregistered
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johnnybravoturbo
Unregistered
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You had my number mate. Did me fair and square,great driving Makes the score 2:1 to me still as I beat you at Bruntingthorpe and Santa pod As I said above your always behind. The student beat the master.
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Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results
[Re: Begbie]
#1409410
06/02/2013 22:55
06/02/2013 22:55
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,405 Castle Combe
Flea
Forum is my life
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Forum is my life
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,405
Castle Combe
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Good to finally see the graphs on here!
Barbz, your car is very similar to Speedy's, and I assume from the boost profile i.e. restricted to 1.5bar coming on boost before ramping up, that you have also suffered with significant compressor surge? This is all important information, as it will affect choices and further development.
Dynos are great, but I am more than happy with the Dastek dyno I use. It is consistant, has been tested as accurate on hundreds of factory cars including all my own, but most importantly it reflects the road data most accurately of all. That last comment is what I care about most of all, as all cars live on the road, not the dyno.
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Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results
[Re: ]
#1409427
06/02/2013 23:50
06/02/2013 23:50
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Barbz
Unregistered
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Barbz
Unregistered
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You had my number mate. Did me fair and square,great driving
Makes the score 2:1 to me still as I beat you at Bruntingthorpe and Santa pod As I said above your always behind. The student beat the master.
How does this view look? Before After
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Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results
[Re: ]
#1409430
06/02/2013 23:53
06/02/2013 23:53
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Barbz
Unregistered
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Barbz
Unregistered
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9 Years and no deal on an S8 Hello Jay Longtime, i heard you been a busy lad . We need to catch up sometime soon... Yes, got a proper deal on S80 mate, thanks.
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Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results
[Re: Flea]
#1409452
07/02/2013 08:58
07/02/2013 08:58
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Barbz
Unregistered
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Barbz
Unregistered
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Good to finally see the graphs on here!
Barbz, your car is very similar to Speedy's, and I assume from the boost profile i.e. restricted to 1.5bar coming on boost before ramping up, that you have also suffered with significant compressor surge? This is all important information, as it will affect choices and further development.
Assumed wrong again im affraid. Had the boost profile set that way, didn't want 2.15bar landing on my lap so early. Running out of gearboxes fast...HELP!
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Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results
[Re: Begbie]
#1409463
07/02/2013 09:55
07/02/2013 09:55
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Barbz
Unregistered
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Barbz
Unregistered
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Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results
[Re: Begbie]
#1409465
07/02/2013 10:01
07/02/2013 10:01
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Barbz
Unregistered
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Barbz
Unregistered
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At least hit the apex of the corner Hairpin actually old boy! Get in touch with JDM in Carlise to help get your idle map right.
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Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results
[Re: DLT]
#1409482
07/02/2013 11:01
07/02/2013 11:01
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Barbz
Unregistered
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Barbz
Unregistered
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Out of interest what were your AFR readings like? Now the afr graphs are up, whats your opinion?
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Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results
[Re: ]
#1409506
07/02/2013 14:00
07/02/2013 14:00
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 268 Swansea
DLT
Making a profit
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Making a profit
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 268
Swansea
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Out of interest what were your AFR readings like? Now the afr graphs are up, whats your opinion? Well in fairness I know very little on this subject, or anything mechanical for that matter. Having sold my Motec in favor of the factory ecu, my interest lies in the various statements made about the factory ecu not being up to the job of mapping "big power" cars. I therefore imagined that the AFR readings from Biggenz car (if on a factory ecu) would be all over the place in relation to your stand alone unit. Looking at the two sets of AFR readings in connection with your AFR table at the bottom, I am not sure I can see where the problems caused by the factory ecu (in this area)are. Perhaps you could point them out? Revs Barbz Biggenz 3,000 12.6 14.0 3,500 13.2 14.0 4,000 13.0 13.5 4,500 13.0 13.0 5,000 11.2 12.0 5,500 11.8 11.5 6,000 12.0 12.4 6,500 12.0 12.6 7,000 N/A 12.5 7,500 N/A 12.3 Air/fuel mixture and characteristics 6.0 rich burn limit (fully warm engine) 9.0/10.0 black smoke/low power 11.5 approx rich best torque at wide-open throttle 12.0 safe best power at wide-open throttle 13.3 approx lean best torque 14.6 stoichiometric AFR (chemically ideal) <-- mean just enough fuel and air 15.5 lean cruise 16.5 usual best economy
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Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results
[Re: Begbie]
#1409513
07/02/2013 14:26
07/02/2013 14:26
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Biggenz
Unregistered
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Biggenz
Unregistered
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I now see why you and Flea were hassling me to put up my graphs.
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Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results
[Re: ]
#1409519
07/02/2013 14:44
07/02/2013 14:44
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group5lancia
Unregistered
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group5lancia
Unregistered
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As for it having a power sapping 10 AFR, if you actually look at the graph you will see it only briefly touches 10.9 between 3.5-4.5k, but in all other areas it is averaging 11.1-11.2 and at peak power it is 11.4 so far from being power sapping!! There seems to be considerable lack of understanding regarding air fuel ratios on power/torque, something I will be addressing in detail later on. Here's an AFR table to help. Air/fuel mixture and characteristics 6.0 rich burn limit (fully warm engine) 9.0/10.0 black smoke/low power 11.5 approx rich best torque at wide-open throttle 12.0 safe best power at wide-open throttle 13.3 approx lean best torque 14.6 stoichiometric AFR (chemically ideal) <-- mean just enough fuel and air 15.5 lean cruise 16.5 usual best economy Lambda Efficiency Curve here I prefer you use lambda as the target, as the stoichiometric ratio is different for different fuels. e.g. Tesco 99 has 5% ethanol, bringing the stoichiometric A/F ratio down to 14.358:1 (from 14.64) and BEST POWER 0.86 lambda becomes an AFR 12.348:1 (down from 12.59:1) Lambda 0.82 gives best knock resistance as it produces the fastest flame speed. On regular petrol that is an AFR of 12.005 and on Tesco 99 11.774:1 If you map using Lambda as the target for closed loop trimming (if the ecu permits this) you will always get the right A/F ratio, whatever fuel you have in the tank...
Last edited by group5lancia; 07/02/2013 17:45.
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Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results
[Re: DLT]
#1409564
07/02/2013 18:18
07/02/2013 18:18
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Barbz
Unregistered
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Barbz
Unregistered
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Well in fairness I know very little on this subject, or anything mechanical for that matter. Having sold my Motec in favor of the factory ecu, my interest lies in the various statements made about the factory ecu not being up to the job of mapping "big power" cars. Fair comment Dave. Keeping it short, my 2 years experience of the fc oem ecu at 500bhp+. A mixed bag really, the Good, the Bad and the Ugly. Time to move on... I therefore imagined that the AFR readings from Biggenz car (if on a factory ecu) would be all over the place in relation to your stand alone unit. Lets just say, sometimes optimising enhancements are needed to arrive at the desired point. Looking at the two sets of AFR readings in connection with your AFR table at the bottom, I am not sure I can see where the problems caused by the factory ecu (in this area)are. Perhaps you could point them out?
Revs Barbz Biggenz 3,000 12.6 14.0 3,500 13.2 14.0 4,000 13.0 13.5 4,500 13.0 13.0 5,000 11.2 12.0 5,500 11.8 11.5 6,000 12.0 12.4 6,500 12.0 12.6 7,000 N/A 12.5 7,500 N/A 12.3
Biggenz's Coupe is a very unique platform at every level and Afr profiles on the day were near perfect In regards to fleas Afr table comparision above, there are some slight variation in data on mine, however, the JDM logs are near perfect. My afr calibrations were achieved by wideband logs taken from downpipe and not piece of tube stuck in the tailpipe (only if calibrated correctly). Note, tailpipe readings can generally give inconsistant afr values.
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Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results
[Re: ]
#1409570
07/02/2013 18:37
07/02/2013 18:37
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 268 Swansea
DLT
Making a profit
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Making a profit
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 268
Swansea
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In regards to fleas Afr table comparision above, there are some slight variation in data on mine, however, the JDM logs are near perfect. My afr calibrations were achieved by wideband logs taken from downpipe and not piece of tube stuck in the tailpipe (only if calibrated correctly). Note, tailpipe readings can generally give inconsistant afr values.
Thanks Barbz. I should point out that the AFR table was nothing to do with Flea, I simply read the two graphs and noted the readings. My interest is purely personal as my car will be mapped on the factory ecu within the next few weeks.
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Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results
[Re: ]
#1409574
07/02/2013 18:41
07/02/2013 18:41
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 268 Swansea
DLT
Making a profit
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Making a profit
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 268
Swansea
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I now see why you and Flea were hassling me to put up my graphs. You have lost me there. I am just trying to get the best result having already spent......Well you know yourself don't you.
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Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results
[Re: ]
#1409580
07/02/2013 19:25
07/02/2013 19:25
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tim42
Unregistered
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tim42
Unregistered
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265bhp @ 5250rpm 275lb/ft @ 4300rpm 1.55bar @ 3700rpm then tailed off to 1.25 @ 6000rpm The AFR was a bit all over the place. The poor beastie was suffering a misfire and a possible boost leak. Barbz has offered to mend my broken heart next week before I resort to My heart is mostly mended. I spent the day with Barbz being educated whilst the Scottie was undertaking some minor cardiac surgery. My jaw bones were most entertained whilst sorting out the boost and AFR on the A3, and my right foot was equally entertained on the drive home once I'd got past the road works on the M25. Just need a boost controller now to complete the package, but I'll give the rollers a miss for the time being. Barbz, legend as usual ; many thanks!! Tim
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Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results
[Re: DLT]
#1409582
07/02/2013 19:29
07/02/2013 19:29
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Barbz
Unregistered
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Barbz
Unregistered
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Thanks Barbz. I should point out that the AFR table was nothing to do with Flea, I simply read the two graphs and noted the readings.
My interest is purely personal as my car will be mapped on the factory ecu within the next few weeks. Your welcome Dave, I hope it works well for you in the end. Consider this, 2 years worth of R&D was done on mine which opened the doors to the 500hp club.
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Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results
[Re: Begbie]
#1409585
07/02/2013 19:47
07/02/2013 19:47
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johnnybravoturbo
Unregistered
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johnnybravoturbo
Unregistered
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But you don't have 500bhp Barbz?
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Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results
[Re: ]
#1409588
07/02/2013 19:55
07/02/2013 19:55
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Barbz
Unregistered
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Barbz
Unregistered
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On my dyno it has!
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Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results
[Re: ]
#1409590
07/02/2013 20:01
07/02/2013 20:01
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tim42
Unregistered
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tim42
Unregistered
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On my dyno it has! ... is that the A3?
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Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results
[Re: Flea]
#1409604
07/02/2013 21:01
07/02/2013 21:01
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Biggenz
Unregistered
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Biggenz
Unregistered
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Pero you drama queen, I have asked to see everybodys graphs as it shows the full picture rather headline snapshots. Why wouldn't you put the graphs up??
Haha. I told you I was just being lazy and finally got round to it.
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Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results
[Re: Gunzi]
#1409617
07/02/2013 21:37
07/02/2013 21:37
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 268 Swansea
DLT
Making a profit
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Making a profit
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 268
Swansea
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If you are talking about the power and torque curves that would probably be down to the differing displacement. I was referring to afr
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