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Alfa 330mm rotors
#1408950
05/02/2013 02:57
05/02/2013 02:57
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Per
Unregistered
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Per
Unregistered
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How easy will the Alfa 330mm brakes fit, i.e. Calipers etc.?
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1409006
05/02/2013 11:36
05/02/2013 11:36
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Per
Unregistered
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Per
Unregistered
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Also; could the 166 310mm disc's fit into our calipers maybe..? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Alfa-166-3-2-v...=item439acec13fTheir inner diameter is also smaller so overall the area is substantially larger. (If one could find oversized Carbotech pads Bob would certainly be my uncle..?)
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1409203
06/02/2013 10:19
06/02/2013 10:19
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Marco20ValveT
Unregistered
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Marco20ValveT
Unregistered
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the Alfa Romeo 330mm calipers bolt on as the bolt diameter is the same.
166 Brembos will not fit.
As for the 166 Disc's fitting, this will need to be trial and error.
one thing with the 330mm brembos, you will need to change your wheels as they do not fit under standard coupe wheels.
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1409241
06/02/2013 13:31
06/02/2013 13:31
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Marco20ValveT
Unregistered
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Marco20ValveT
Unregistered
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standard brake pipes from the coupe should fit as there the same fitment!
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1409314
06/02/2013 17:17
06/02/2013 17:17
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Per
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Per
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Thanks for the input. As for the 166 Disc's fitting, this will need to be trial and error.
one thing with the 330mm brembos, you will need to change your wheels as they do not fit under standard coupe wheels. Yes, that's a good reason to try & fit the 310mm ones which fits inside the 16" wheels, incl. some trial&error.. But I like that sort of thing. Pic of the disc's, Alfa 166 left and Coupe 20VT right:
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1409320
06/02/2013 17:48
06/02/2013 17:48
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Marco20ValveT
Unregistered
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Marco20ValveT
Unregistered
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could be worth a shout mate!
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1409955
09/02/2013 14:01
09/02/2013 14:01
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THE_G
Unregistered
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THE_G
Unregistered
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marco is the 330mm calipers pretty much a bolt on replacement then ? and i take it we could either get 2 piece discs made or re drill alfa ones to suit out stud pattern
whats a very very rough ballpark figure for doing this ?
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1410009
09/02/2013 21:34
09/02/2013 21:34
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,244 Watford, Herts.
Hyperlink
Forum is my life
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Forum is my life
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,244
Watford, Herts.
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marco is the 330mm calipers pretty much a bolt on replacement then ? and i take it we could either get 2 piece discs made or re drill alfa ones to suit out stud pattern
whats a very very rough ballpark figure for doing this ? Yes they should be, there is an upgrade kit available for the GTA to go from 305 to 330 and the mounts are the same. If your sourcing caliper you need to make sure they arent for a newer model which have different mounts. Also you will need suitable 17" alloys. Not sure on the disks.
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1410333
11/02/2013 17:52
11/02/2013 17:52
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 555 Bulgaria
Ferrarist
Enjoying the ride
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Enjoying the ride
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 555
Bulgaria
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330 discs is damn heavy, and it's pointless upgrade if not on 4x4 Coupe or at least above 400HP and trackdays a lot...... Useful brembo "upgrade" is 310mm discs with Alfa 166 Brembos, Alfa 145 1.9JTD bigger hubs and custom plate between the hub and the caliper.
20VT - Alfa 156 2.0 - Alfa 156 Mid-Engined RWD - Locost 20VT
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1410392
11/02/2013 22:06
11/02/2013 22:06
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alfisti
Unregistered
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alfisti
Unregistered
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I wrote it some time ago LANCIA DELTA III TBI has 330 mm disc brake's with 4 stud hole !!!! 4x98 even :-D
Last edited by alfisti; 11/02/2013 22:07.
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: Ferrarist]
#1410474
12/02/2013 12:36
12/02/2013 12:36
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Per
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Per
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330 discs is damn heavy, and it's pointless upgrade if not on 4x4 Coupe or at least above 400HP and trackdays a lot...... Useful brembo "upgrade" is 310mm discs with Alfa 166 Brembos, Alfa 145 1.9JTD bigger hubs and custom plate between the hub and the caliper. I only have ca 340hp but I run out of brakes anyway.. (I have the most hardcore 305mm setup already) so I need something more. Or I have to back off on the track but that's just no fun! I'm thinking about the 310mm Alfa 166 disc's with Coupe calipers as I don't want to change wheel size, however I'm still not sure it will be worth it. But MTEC have them anyway: http://www.mtecbrakes.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=4&products_id=1099They're even a bit cheaper!
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1410515
12/02/2013 17:02
12/02/2013 17:02
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THE_G
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THE_G
Unregistered
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what makes the alfas discs that much of an upgrade with only 5mm per ? is there something else going on that makes them better and i assume we would have to redril those to 4x98
the lancia setup sounds good but whats the chances of finding stuff for it ?
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1410543
12/02/2013 19:28
12/02/2013 19:28
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Per
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Per
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what makes the alfas discs that much of an upgrade with only 5mm per ? is there something else going on that makes them better and i assume we would have to redril those to 4x98 It isn't! Just a little, probably. But you could keep the std wheels w existing R-tires on. Taz: are those custommade alu-hubs? If so were they fitted offset from the std position and how did you solve the caliper position?
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: Hyperlink]
#1410610
12/02/2013 22:53
12/02/2013 22:53
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Taz
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Taz
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Per, yes mate, the alu' bells are custom, but they weren't perfect, as I had to shave a tad off the inner face of the pads to avoid it rubbing on the bell lip, a bit of a pain, but the pad surface is not affected, just the edge of the backing plate
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: Hyperlink]
#1410651
13/02/2013 07:52
13/02/2013 07:52
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 555 Bulgaria
Ferrarist
Enjoying the ride
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Enjoying the ride
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 555
Bulgaria
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They inspire much more confidence. I guess it depends on your requirements but I cant ever see better brakes as pointless....
Yes for sure there is much more confidence......and if brakes on some car is bad - better brakes upgrade is not pointless...... But it's pointless upgrade if tyres can not handle more braking force and slide anyway.....because there is a point where if OE brake system is fine and OK, it can offer more that tires can "grip".......good discs and pads IMO is OK for OE Coupe calipers if running standard tires......if semi's used then upgrade is good...... So maybe people must first be sure that there is still a problem when appropriate discs and pads is used, and only then upgrade to bigger calipers.... My point of view......
20VT - Alfa 156 2.0 - Alfa 156 Mid-Engined RWD - Locost 20VT
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1410779
13/02/2013 21:40
13/02/2013 21:40
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Per
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Per
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Very true! thanks for the Lancia Delta 330mm advice! http://bit.ly/X8LB0CVery nice, all bolt-on then!
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1410803
14/02/2013 00:09
14/02/2013 00:09
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,576 Glasgow,Near Florence..If only...
paul
My life on the forum
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My life on the forum
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,576
Glasgow,Near Florence..If only...
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Taz, i have the same calipers as you..and yes, with the aformentioned alfa logo how did you remove it on yours ? or was it a straight re paint re sticker job ? The car is down a Barbz,so i can`t check,I`m guessing the Alfa sticker is under the laquer so can`t be `polished /cut ` off
was Paul S,now just paul...Member since Oct 2000,Coupe may be FATALLY injured - :(oh no it's not
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1410880
14/02/2013 13:05
14/02/2013 13:05
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jonone
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jonone
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I removed my 330mm alfa stickers by rubbing them down before painting with caliper paint, then applied brembo sticker then lacquered. They were are now gloss black with silver brembo decals, with NASCAR two piece discs and pagid yellows its all for sale .....but not cheap Go lovely on a steel grey per.....
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1410963
14/02/2013 18:41
14/02/2013 18:41
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Per
Unregistered
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Per
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Oh go on ship it over now! I cannot promise I wouldn't paint them BLUE with that classic tall FIAT logo in white... (it's Valentine's day..?) (oh that's a different thing, ok.)
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1410980
14/02/2013 19:54
14/02/2013 19:54
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jonone
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jonone
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Valentines day eh
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1411028
15/02/2013 00:04
15/02/2013 00:04
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alfisti
Unregistered
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alfisti
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I was talking about this disc rotor 330x28m 4stud) about year ago ...but nobody was listen
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1411160
15/02/2013 20:02
15/02/2013 20:02
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THE_G
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THE_G
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so with the bigger rotors from the lancia .... we would just need a new caliper mount and use our existing calipers ?
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1411172
15/02/2013 20:46
15/02/2013 20:46
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alfisti
Unregistered
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alfisti
Unregistered
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:-D I'm almost sure.
Last edited by alfisti; 15/02/2013 20:47.
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1411176
15/02/2013 21:09
15/02/2013 21:09
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THE_G
Unregistered
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THE_G
Unregistered
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1411650
18/02/2013 18:00
18/02/2013 18:00
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Per
Unregistered
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Per
Unregistered
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so with the bigger rotors from the lancia .... we would just need a new caliper mount and use our existing calipers ? No - the point is to use the Alfa GT 3.2 (or GTA 330mm) calipers, these are bolt on. The Coupe calipers would not fit. Whats the thickness of the lancia discs? They're exactly like the Alfa 330mm, only with Fiat 4x98mm pattern!
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1411652
18/02/2013 18:10
18/02/2013 18:10
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alfisti
Unregistered
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alfisti
Unregistered
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They are not the same as GTA 330 *32 , and this one is 28 mm:) that's men that coupe caliper + adapter's
Spec for alfa GTA 330 -> 330mm x 32 thickness ; 5x98 lancia delta III tbi -> 330mm x 28 thickness ; 4x98
Last edited by alfisti; 18/02/2013 18:31.
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1411681
18/02/2013 20:54
18/02/2013 20:54
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 8,057 Southsea
Gunzi
Club member 189, Former Club President
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Club member 189, Former Club President
Je suis un Coupé
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 8,057
Southsea
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Ok am I right in thinking there are two options for a 330mm set up and both require larger alloys? 1) Alfa gt or gta 3.2 caliper and 330mm discs. Discs require redrilling to 4 stud but calipers are a straight fit. 2) Lancia Delta III 330mm discs and Coupe Brembo calipers. The discs are a straight fit but the calipers require a bespoke spacer. I think it's these 330mm x 28mm discs. If so they look to have identical dimensions to the 20VT brembos with the exception of being 330mm over 305mm. I looked at the 166 3.0 discs and I'm not sure they will work. The centre diameter is 0.5mm smaller and overall height is 1.3mm taller meaning the disc would sit further away from the middle of the hub towards the engine. I think this would result in uneven wear of the disc and pads.
Last edited by Gunzi; 18/02/2013 23:11.
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1411696
18/02/2013 22:01
18/02/2013 22:01
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Per
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Per
Unregistered
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Ouch forgot the thickness difference..
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1411701
18/02/2013 22:12
18/02/2013 22:12
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alfisti
Unregistered
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alfisti
Unregistered
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:-P Too much coffe or butter hehe
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1411810
19/02/2013 17:47
19/02/2013 17:47
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THE_G
Unregistered
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THE_G
Unregistered
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if you could get those lancia discs drilled they would suit the le style discs and at 330mm looks like a serious piece of kit for not alot of money , so just an adapter plate is needed ?
wont matter for me i bought some cheap discs n pads to use just now till i work out what to upgrade too
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: Freddan72]
#1416052
14/03/2013 23:03
14/03/2013 23:03
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Julien
Unregistered
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Julien
Unregistered
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Anyone thinking of doing this upgrade? I've design an adaptor to fit the brembo calipers with 330mm discs. [img] http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/864/calew.jpg[/img] I'm waiting for 1 or 2 dimensions to be sure it will fit to original bracket . Then I will ask for a price for a pair of this kind (the design will be different for right and Left wheel)
Last edited by Julien; 14/03/2013 23:06.
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1416139
15/03/2013 19:07
15/03/2013 19:07
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,194 Göteborg, Sweden
Freddan72
Competition Level
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Competition Level
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,194
Göteborg, Sweden
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Anyone thinking of doing this upgrade? I've design an adaptor to fit the brembo calipers with 330mm discs. [img] http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/864/calew.jpg[/img] I'm waiting for 1 or 2 dimensions to be sure it will fit to original bracket . Then I will ask for a price for a pair of this kind (the design will be different for right and Left wheel) Can you send drawing to me? Pretty please
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: Freddan72]
#1416146
15/03/2013 20:23
15/03/2013 20:23
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Julien
Unregistered
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Julien
Unregistered
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Anyone thinking of doing this upgrade? I've design an adaptor to fit the brembo calipers with 330mm discs. [img] http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/864/calew.jpg[/img] I'm waiting for 1 or 2 dimensions to be sure it will fit to original bracket . Then I will ask for a price for a pair of this kind (the design will be different for right and Left wheel) Can you send drawing to me? Pretty please Once the prototype is ok, I will share it for free yes (but I want to have the first model on ). For now there wouldn't be any interest as I know some dimensions are wrong. It should be machined in an 7000 series aluminium (for mechanical resistance). Maybe a heat shield will be needed for trackday enthusiasts The thickness will be between 25mm and 30mm to be able to bolt it to the originl bracket with the same torque without breaking the thread (as the aluminium is softer than steel). A have already the 286mm(16VT)/305mm(20VT)/330mm(delta844) discs modelized on CAD. This is the dimensions I need : [img]http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/5500/dsc003783.jpg[/img] The green one should be 130mm and M12*1.75 The red one...I'm still waiting for it. It must be taken from the green line to the lower part of the pad (in contact with the disc). Then I need the height of the pad at the middle and it will be good Don't hesitate to reply if you have brembo's on your table
Last edited by Julien; 15/03/2013 20:23.
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: Freddan72]
#1416280
16/03/2013 19:11
16/03/2013 19:11
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Julien
Unregistered
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Julien
Unregistered
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You mean from radius to radius?
More than that.
It's about 16 or 20mm so center to center should be around 30mm
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1416286
16/03/2013 19:25
16/03/2013 19:25
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alfisti
Unregistered
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alfisti
Unregistered
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oh one more thing 16v/vt 284 diameter ;-)
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1416318
16/03/2013 22:28
16/03/2013 22:28
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alfisti
Unregistered
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alfisti
Unregistered
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I.m not planing to change brakes , but for 16 vt user i found other way. Diffrent idea for 16VT brake upgrade Caliper from brera (they are 28mm disc ready) they've got longer disc pad 130mm but they are radial mount ( something like this http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v614/pascs/alfa/brakes/Brembofront.jpg ). You will ask why..this type is more popular.
Last edited by alfisti; 16/03/2013 22:42.
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: Freddan72]
#1416467
17/03/2013 21:50
17/03/2013 21:50
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Julien
Unregistered
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Julien
Unregistered
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Sorry I missed that you have 16vt. It should be 23 mm for you. It's more complicated than that. The calipers are not the same and the mounting points are different from 16vt and 20vt. I can't just offset the holes by X millimeters.
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: Freddan72]
#1422571
17/04/2013 13:21
17/04/2013 13:21
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Julien
Unregistered
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Julien
Unregistered
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Can you take a pic of the mounting holes? Does it look like this Alfa GTV Turbo? Yes the mounting holes are like this. I have (with a couple of french coupe owners) design the adapter...I will try it in a few days and make the modification if necessary. The first model will be for 20vt hub (it was easier to design at first time). For now the adapter look like this.
Last edited by Julien; 17/04/2013 19:08.
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1422589
17/04/2013 15:22
17/04/2013 15:22
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burnbike
Unregistered
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burnbike
Unregistered
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how much $$$ this adapters?
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1422642
17/04/2013 19:10
17/04/2013 19:10
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Julien
Unregistered
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Julien
Unregistered
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how much $$$ this adapters? It should be under 150€ for the 2 adapters (left and right)
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1422695
17/04/2013 22:19
17/04/2013 22:19
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,360 stockport
volumex
My job on the forum
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My job on the forum
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,360
stockport
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: volumex]
#1422734
18/04/2013 01:10
18/04/2013 01:10
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Julien
Unregistered
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Julien
Unregistered
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The tarox kit is a very good one, but it cost at least 1000€ for the 330mm kit. Now we are speaking about 300€ with brake discs and adapters. It won't be as powerfull as the tarox kit but it's a good option for fast road/track enthusiast at a lower cost
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1422802
18/04/2013 16:57
18/04/2013 16:57
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,194 Göteborg, Sweden
Freddan72
Competition Level
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Competition Level
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,194
Göteborg, Sweden
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Can you take a pic of the mounting holes? Does it look like this Alfa GTV Turbo? Yes the mounting holes are like this. I have (with a couple of french coupe owners) design the adapter...I will try it in a few days and make the modification if necessary. The first model will be for 20vt hub (it was easier to design at first time). For now the adapter look like this. Nice!! Send a drawing to me when you are finished And please add pics after installation.
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1458054
14/11/2013 09:14
14/11/2013 09:14
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alfisti
Unregistered
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alfisti
Unregistered
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Look nice, but i think that they are a litle bit off center on the caliper. but maybe the photo only. Please rethink radial mount calliper from brera or other they are much common and they've got longer (larger) brake pads.
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1458093
14/11/2013 14:10
14/11/2013 14:10
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Julien
Unregistered
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Julien
Unregistered
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Look nice, but i think that they are a litle bit off center on the caliper. but maybe the photo only. Please rethink radial mount calliper from brera or other they are much common and they've got longer (larger) brake pads. It's not the photo, the calipers are actually not perfectly centered because the face of the adapter is sitting on the rough part of the original mounting bracket (the adapter is a little bit too big...) About radials, yes, it would be easier but it's twice the price of standard fiat coupe brembo calipers (which is suppose to be "low cost" and the original idea was to propose an adapter plate to mount 330mm discs without changing anything else on 20vt, it should be ready before christmas).
Last edited by Julien; 14/11/2013 14:10.
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1458154
14/11/2013 20:14
14/11/2013 20:14
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alfisti
Unregistered
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alfisti
Unregistered
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In 16VT case its not a problem beacause you must buy anyway.
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1458215
15/11/2013 09:45
15/11/2013 09:45
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Per
Unregistered
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Per
Unregistered
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1458258
15/11/2013 15:21
15/11/2013 15:21
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JimmyJ
Unregistered
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JimmyJ
Unregistered
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Seems a bit of a waste if you don't use the whole disc.
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1459530
23/11/2013 00:23
23/11/2013 00:23
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alfisti
Unregistered
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alfisti
Unregistered
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Pads are the second place or even third when you are talking about the braking most important is disc size this is all about power lever. In 20VT youve got caliper, but for 16VT you must buy some brembo caliper in my personal opinion the best choice is brake caliper from Brera (for example). They've got radial mount ,and longer brake pad it,s 10mm longer if im correct.
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1459923
25/11/2013 17:07
25/11/2013 17:07
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Julien
Unregistered
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Julien
Unregistered
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In 16VT case its not a problem beacause you must buy anyway. In france these kinds of calipers are sold between 300-350£ without pads so it's not a cheap conversion Seems a bit of a waste if you don't use the whole disc. It is and it's not. The whole discs offeers more surface to cool down which should avoid the original disc bend under hard braking. good effort but as above, if the caliper and pad are the same, is there really much of a point? OK, braking at the extremity of a disk may be mechanically 'easier' but is this proven in practice?
In terms of design, it worries me when brakes are meddled with. Id be making sure that any inside corners have a radius to avoid stress risers. Of course, if you apply the same resistive force at a further point from the center of rotation of the wheel, the braking power will be proportionnal (here +-8% more). Pads are the second place or even third when you are talking about the braking most important is disc size this is all about power lever. In 20VT youve got caliper, but for 16VT you must buy some brembo caliper in my personal opinion the best choice is brake caliper from Brera (for example). They've got radial mount ,and longer brake pad it,s 10mm longer if im correct. The pad surface is not related to braking power but with heat at the contact pads/discs. Only the pistons diameter are related to the caliper "braking force capacity". If the brera have the same pistons calipers as the fiat coupe 20v turbo, then it's stopping capacity is the same.
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1460029
25/11/2013 23:17
25/11/2013 23:17
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burnbike
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burnbike
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i don't understand how a short brake pad offer the same friction of a longer braking pad
it's like to say a widest tyre offer the same grip of a short one
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1460043
26/11/2013 01:04
26/11/2013 01:04
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JimmyJ
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JimmyJ
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It still is a waste if you're looking for more braking power. Only for cooling it's not worth it.
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1460065
26/11/2013 08:48
26/11/2013 08:48
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Julien
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Julien
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i don't understand how a short brake pad offer the same friction of a longer braking pad
it's like to say a widest tyre offer the same grip of a short one The friction is linked with the force applied by the pistons of the calipers on the pads. There is a friction limit for each pad depending on temperature. It means that even if you put more pressure (by putting bigger pistons or even higher brake pressure) on the pad, the friction factor will be at his highest point and you won't brake more. And yes, that's the same for the tyres : If you put like 235/40/17 track tyres at the rear of a fiat coupe, you won't be able to heat them up until a few lap, you will think it has more grip due to the wider tyre and less body roll, but it is not thanks to the grip. It still is a waste if you're looking for more braking power. Only for cooling it's not worth it. It highly depends on what you put behind "worth it" If you spend less than 150£ for 8% more braking power, no disc bending under hard conditions and much more constant braking; for me it doesn't sound as a "waste". Also, the biggest increase is mainly for 16VT as you go from 1 floating pistons with 284*22mm discs to 4 pistons brembo with 330*28mm discs for around 450£.
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1460151
26/11/2013 20:50
26/11/2013 20:50
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,370 Staffordshire
Nigel
Forum veteran
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Forum veteran
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,370
Staffordshire
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i don't understand how a short brake pad offer the same friction of a longer braking pad
it's like to say a widest tyre offer the same grip of a short one A wide tyre DOES give the same grip as a narrower one....
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1460194
26/11/2013 23:22
26/11/2013 23:22
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alfisti
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alfisti
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It's all very complicated. 1 Why do we need bigger disc rotor? Because the braking power is mostly connected with arm length ( when you are using some tools you need longer arm the same with the brake rotor size) 2 Second one "hydraulic lever" the smaller brake pump size and bigger piston size will increase the power, but brake pedal travel distance will be increased !! (check on wikipedia) 3 Shorter pads (the same piston in caliper) will give more pressure at 1cm2, but longer pads can take more heat ,and the area of friction is increased 4 Pads, sports pads need to heat up any way like ds2500 or ds3000 or any other 5 Than weve got tyres , their compounds, stick area ..etc 6 Modern brake systems (ABS pump) can creat some pressure before you can even start to brake
Last edited by alfisti; 26/11/2013 23:27.
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1460202
27/11/2013 00:12
27/11/2013 00:12
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burnbike
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burnbike
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i agree
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1460254
27/11/2013 10:15
27/11/2013 10:15
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Julien
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Julien
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It's all very complicated. 1 Why do we need bigger disc rotor? Because the braking power is mostly connected with arm length ( when you are using some tools you need longer arm the same with the brake rotor size) 2 Second one "hydraulic lever" the smaller brake pump size and bigger piston size will increase the power, but brake pedal travel distance will be increased !! (check on wikipedia) 3 Shorter pads (the same piston in caliper) will give more pressure at 1cm2, but longer pads can take more heat ,and the area of friction is increased 4 Pads, sports pads need to heat up any way like ds2500 or ds3000 or any other 5 Than weve got tyres , their compounds, stick area ..etc 6 Modern brake systems (ABS pump) can creat some pressure before you can even start to brake That's it
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1460359
27/11/2013 22:01
27/11/2013 22:01
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alfisti
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alfisti
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Sorry, for basics, but sometimes we are thinking about something great and cant see small issues. ;-) Im still waiting for final "masterpiece" , and i hope it will be realy perfect.
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1460930
01/12/2013 07:30
01/12/2013 07:30
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 555 Bulgaria
Ferrarist
Enjoying the ride
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Enjoying the ride
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 555
Bulgaria
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It's all very complicated. 1 Why do we need bigger disc rotor? Because the braking power is mostly connected with arm length ( when you are using some tools you need longer arm the same with the brake rotor size) 2 Second one "hydraulic lever" the smaller brake pump size and bigger piston size will increase the power, but brake pedal travel distance will be increased !! (check on wikipedia) 3 Shorter pads (the same piston in caliper) will give more pressure at 1cm2, but longer pads can take more heat ,and the area of friction is increased 4 Pads, sports pads need to heat up any way like ds2500 or ds3000 or any other 5 Than weve got tyres , their compounds, stick area ..etc 6 Modern brake systems (ABS pump) can creat some pressure before you can even start to brake Very true....... And maybe worth to say that you brake system(calipers,pads,disc) don't really care if your car is 50 or 500bhp.....again - for the brakes there is no difference if your car is 50 or 500bhp - weight of the car matters for the brakes.....i guess you never press throttle and brakes same time......well when braking on gear sometimes heavy engine internals change the equation a little, but not that much...... Hope you understand that above did not include tyre change......when brake change is combined with wider tyres, there is great effect.....
20VT - Alfa 156 2.0 - Alfa 156 Mid-Engined RWD - Locost 20VT
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1461048
01/12/2013 21:57
01/12/2013 21:57
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alfisti
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alfisti
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Power has sth to do with it. If you.ve got fast car you are driving faster, harder more on the limit you are braking later..etc. I hope that you know what im trying to tell;-)
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1461087
02/12/2013 07:29
02/12/2013 07:29
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 555 Bulgaria
Ferrarist
Enjoying the ride
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Enjoying the ride
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 555
Bulgaria
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Power has sth to do with it. If you.ve got fast car you are driving faster, harder more on the limit you are braking later..etc. I hope that you know what im trying to tell;-) Yes, if you upgrade to wider tyres it's worth having brake upgrade......but no matter how much bhp your car is, it's pointless to have huge calipers-discs if your tyres can not provide grip.....all car makers design brakes relatively OK for almost every car on the line.....and it was designed for weight and tyres used...... You have two 100 kg mans sliding on ice down the hill, wearing same size of shoes - one of them is fat and other is world wrestling champion......who will stop first?.....why the wrestler may stop first if they just slide and rely on the grip of it's shoes?
20VT - Alfa 156 2.0 - Alfa 156 Mid-Engined RWD - Locost 20VT
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: Ferrarist]
#1500636
29/07/2014 16:56
29/07/2014 16:56
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 358 Slovenia
Mrzly_slo
Making a profit
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Making a profit
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 358
Slovenia
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I have to reply on this topic because I'm currently thinking about alfa brembo conversion. I have someone who is willing to sell me alfa 166 super Brembos with pads for 120€, all I need is a discs, and maybe an adapter? I have a VIS that I'm used to drive sporty and now I have EBC Ultimax discs and brakes, which are not as good as I thought....So currently I have two choices. Buy the brembos for 120€ and discs from LAncia D. 3 for 150€.... or Buy sports EBC discs with RED stuff pads for 330€... What should I do? A lot of people here are saying that the alfa brembos are a straight fit on Coop? With lancia discs? What about the HUD diameter , is it the same 58.1 as the Lancias??? If someone has any ideas how to help me I would be very thankfull....
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1500645
29/07/2014 17:41
29/07/2014 17:41
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nismo
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nismo
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you will need adapters to fit alfa 166 brembo's to your coupe .
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1500753
30/07/2014 15:55
30/07/2014 15:55
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 555 Bulgaria
Ferrarist
Enjoying the ride
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Enjoying the ride
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 555
Bulgaria
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Do you really think that so much heavy 330mm discs with big 18" rims and tyres will not affect car's handling? Some may say that it will stop better(and this can be debated a lot, because you did not change car's weight), but lot of unsprung masses always affect handling. Why not using 310 or 312mm discs? It may require redrill, but it's not a big deal......
20VT - Alfa 156 2.0 - Alfa 156 Mid-Engined RWD - Locost 20VT
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1500785
30/07/2014 23:01
30/07/2014 23:01
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digitalundgrd
Unregistered
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digitalundgrd
Unregistered
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Couple of weeks ago I changed my stock 284mm x 22mm discs and stock Lucas calipers. Now I am using Alfa 166/Kappa 20vt 4 pot Brembo with 305mm x 28mm discs (Coupe 20vt/Mito Qv). This set up is so much better compared to the stock! The initial bite is superb and heavy braking from 140+ mph is not a problem any more...Pedal feel and travel are the same as before (no need to change brake master cylinder). You need to make 2 steel brackets. Here are some pics : Some useful info : 284mm x 22mm discs - 6 kg each disc 305mm x 28mm discs - 8.3 kg each disc 310mm x 28mm discs - almost 9kg each disc 330mm x 32mm discs - 10.3 kg each disc
Last edited by digitalundgrd; 30/07/2014 23:06.
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: Ferrarist]
#1500912
01/08/2014 01:26
01/08/2014 01:26
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Per
Unregistered
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Per
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Do you really think that so much heavy 330mm discs with big 18" rims and tyres will not affect car's handling? Some may say that it will stop better(and this can be debated a lot, because you did not change car's weight), but lot of unsprung masses always affect handling. Why not using 310 or 312mm discs? It may require redrill, but it's not a big deal...... I have been thinking of the Alfa 310mm disc but the advantage will be too small for the hassle. Also it wont fit within the calipers.. Re your thinking on big brakes, why then has not all fast factory cars very small brakes if that's better..? You are right that the cars weigth is one of the factors, but what brakes really do is transverse moving energy to heat. And the moving energy is a product from power x weigth. More power - better brakes please, very simple. Unspung weigth is a different matter, but of secondary interest when you are running out of brakes.
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1500922
01/08/2014 08:04
01/08/2014 08:04
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 555 Bulgaria
Ferrarist
Enjoying the ride
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Enjoying the ride
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 555
Bulgaria
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Re your thinking on big brakes, why then has not all fast factory cars very small brakes if that's better..? I never said that bigger brakes is not advantage, but only when combined with wider tyres - they provide more grip, and more braking power needed....... And as we all noted - all very powerful cars, had very wide tyres......Size of the brake system is 95% determined by the weight and tyres of the car...... Running on semi or full slicks also require bigger brakes..... Heat - ok, braking produce heat and bigger disc and pads transfer heat better, but i doubt that any average daily driver with average remaped Coupe to overheat brakes, unless he make 5-6-7-8 extreme stops one after another.....and some good pads may cure that. I'm not against big brakes anyway, have it on my trackday car, but there is few pros and cons when using it on daily cars......
20VT - Alfa 156 2.0 - Alfa 156 Mid-Engined RWD - Locost 20VT
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: Ferrarist]
#1500926
01/08/2014 08:40
01/08/2014 08:40
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burnbike
Unregistered
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burnbike
Unregistered
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They inspire much more confidence. I guess it depends on your requirements but I cant ever see better brakes as pointless....
Yes for sure there is much more confidence......and if brakes on some car is bad - better brakes upgrade is not pointless...... But it's pointless upgrade if tyres can not handle more braking force and slide anyway.....because there is a point where if OE brake system is fine and OK, it can offer more that tires can "grip".......good discs and pads IMO is OK for OE Coupe calipers if running standard tires......if semi's used then upgrade is good...... So maybe people must first be sure that there is still a problem when appropriate discs and pads is used, and only then upgrade to bigger calipers.... My point of view...... if the discs become larger from 28 to 33mm it will handle more the heating on heavy stop i presume it will distort less than original discs
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1504766
26/08/2014 14:16
26/08/2014 14:16
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Per
Unregistered
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Per
Unregistered
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Now I finally got proper late GTA 330mm calipers on the way, is there a good source for 2-piece 330mm disc's..? (alu hub) I know there are kits (Maxx etc.) which such disc's but I don't know if their offset's different to the std Alfa disc?
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1506536
06/09/2014 21:30
06/09/2014 21:30
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 229 Perth, Western Australia
Hoops82
Making a profit
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Making a profit
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 229
Perth, Western Australia
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Couple of weeks ago I changed my stock 284mm x 22mm discs and stock Lucas calipers.
Now I am using Alfa 166/Kappa 20vt 4 pot Brembo with 305mm x 28mm discs (Coupe 20vt/Mito Qv). This set up is so much better compared to the stock! The initial bite is superb and heavy braking from 140+ mph is not a problem any more...Pedal feel and travel are the same as before (no need to change brake master cylinder). You need to make 2 steel brackets.
Good work, was it a fairly straight forward swap once the brackets were made, any plans with the rears?
Resting UK
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1506874
08/09/2014 22:48
08/09/2014 22:48
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digitalundgrd
Unregistered
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digitalundgrd
Unregistered
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Yep, It is very easy job if you have the brackets made. I don't think I need bigger brakes at the rear unless I go for the 4x4 conversion one day....
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1509315
25/09/2014 02:09
25/09/2014 02:09
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Per
Unregistered
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Per
Unregistered
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So I got my GTA 330mm calipers finally. Cheaply, from a scrapped 156 GTA 2004 in UK so a bit mucky and dirty but otherwise in very good shape. Will repaint them and of course rebrand them to FIAT. I'm in touch with a few different specialist for a fitting split disc. After today I have some hopes.. And - now I realize why they reportedly takes a lot more beating.. Not only is the disc 330x32mm instead of 305x28mm, look at the difference in pad area..?!
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1509319
25/09/2014 05:35
25/09/2014 05:35
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mr_cheese
Unregistered
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mr_cheese
Unregistered
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Are the alfas much better than the brembos then?? as I am sick to death of these poor excuse for brakes! Lol my daily driver is jst a 320 ci and the brakes in that are sooooo much better than the brembos, if only they were half as good! Lol..
iv toyed with the idea of a full tarox upgrade but I jst cnt justify paying near what I paid for the car on a set of brakes! Lol
oh also do the alfas fit over the standard 20vt??
Cheers..Clive
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1509320
25/09/2014 07:45
25/09/2014 07:45
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,391 Essex
Trappy
Forum is my life
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Forum is my life
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,391
Essex
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What pads do you use mr_cheese?
F****** b****** thing...
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1509328
25/09/2014 09:38
25/09/2014 09:38
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Per
Unregistered
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Per
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Clive - I'm pretty sure you have a fault/trapped air somewhere. My std Brembo brakes are amazing in everyday driving. Initial bite, feel etc. second to none. Try changing the fluid, with the correct beeding order. If that doesn't help, change pads. These calipers are Brembo aswell, as the Fiats. Just beefed up! They will fit the std mounts. I hope! I'll need bigger trackday rims and new R-tires though..
Last edited by Per; 26/09/2014 11:44.
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1509355
25/09/2014 14:50
25/09/2014 14:50
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mr_cheese
Unregistered
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mr_cheese
Unregistered
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Hi trappy.. per..
well normally I go with pagid discs with ds5000 pads and yet the brakes jst dont inspire confidence! And im running 360bhp so thats essential! Lol.. this is my 4th coupe now and the brakes have been prity much the same in all of them, CRAP!! Lol.. am I just expecting to much you think?
I just find it hard to belive a standard 320 ci (2002) can have sooo much sharper, confidence inspiring brakes compaired to the coupe.. had them checked over at motormech who say their ok but if these are OK id hate to drive their version of "bad"!! Lol..
wil try and bleed them when shes back frm paintshop, hopefull they improve!!
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1509362
25/09/2014 17:03
25/09/2014 17:03
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Per
Unregistered
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Per
Unregistered
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Absolutley, if anything the Fiat brakes should feel better? It's italian after all. Check for the (important!) correct bleeding order at the bottom of this page: http://www.polak.ch/coupemanual/Brakes.htm
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1509363
25/09/2014 17:39
25/09/2014 17:39
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,391 Essex
Trappy
Forum is my life
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Forum is my life
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,391
Essex
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I must admit that my brakes used to inspire more confidence than they do now but that's because the calipers are tired and need a refurb - I hope! How many miles had each of your Coupés covered? I also have no idea how good DS5000s are... did you mean DS2500s as I've never heard of the 5000s...
F****** b****** thing...
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1509365
25/09/2014 18:04
25/09/2014 18:04
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Per
Unregistered
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Per
Unregistered
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Mine's done close to 270000km's. 3rd owner. Calipers refurbished once but seals all cracked again thanks to track use..
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1509415
26/09/2014 02:30
26/09/2014 02:30
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mr_cheese
Unregistered
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mr_cheese
Unregistered
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Well my 1st coupe was 120,000 2nd 106,000 3rd 100,000 and my current one is on 86,000 but barbz rebuilt engine in 09 befor he sold it and iv only done few though since so only jst broke her in realy! Lol but if he rebuilt the brakes at same time is doubtful but saying that he did put on all new brake lines, disc, pads ect so might have done as she was standing a few yrs befor that, hence low miles! Oh and low owners! Im the 3rd! Whop whop! Lol
oh yea I did mean ds2500 lol..
think its time to do full brembo refurb then by the sounds of it as thats one thing I never did on any of my coupes jst thinking that's how coupes were but if per says his are second to none(and iv seen his track vids!lol) then somethings wrong!! Can't belive iv had coupes 10 plus yrs now and jst put up with crappy brakes! And I do mean crappy! Lol
wil keep you all posted how I get on. All best...clive
Last edited by mr_cheese; 26/09/2014 02:32.
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1509455
26/09/2014 08:31
26/09/2014 08:31
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digitalundgrd
Unregistered
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digitalundgrd
Unregistered
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And - now I realize why they reportedly takes a lot more beating.. Not only is the disc 330x32mm instead of 305x28mm, look at the difference in pad area..?! Brembo calipers from Alfa 166/ Lancia Kappa 20vt use the same pads as 2004 GTA but with smaller disc 310x28mm
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1509473
26/09/2014 11:46
26/09/2014 11:46
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Per
Unregistered
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Per
Unregistered
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The thing is, the 166 calipers still need 17" wheels so you might aswell go for 330mm.
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1509481
26/09/2014 13:37
26/09/2014 13:37
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 148 Sofia, Bulgaria
injekciona
On a journey
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On a journey
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 148
Sofia, Bulgaria
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As far as I know 166's calipers can be fitted with 310 mm disks into 16" wheels.
Jet Black E46 M3 EX - Broom Yellow Fiat Coupe 1.8 -> 2.0 16VT Speed Red Fiat Coupe 2.0 16VT R.I.P.
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1515055
11/11/2014 11:58
11/11/2014 11:58
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Per
Unregistered
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Per
Unregistered
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Now - with my 330mm Alfa calipers, do I need to change the main cylinder?
(are the piston diameters different?)
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1515082
11/11/2014 15:27
11/11/2014 15:27
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Per
Unregistered
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Per
Unregistered
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Great, cheers!
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1515087
11/11/2014 16:46
11/11/2014 16:46
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 555 Bulgaria
Ferrarist
Enjoying the ride
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Enjoying the ride
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 555
Bulgaria
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Now - with my 330mm Alfa calipers, do I need to change the main cylinder?
(are the piston diameters different?) Few Alfa 166 used bigger piston on it's master cylinder.....24mm or 26mm from my memory...... 166's is heavier and uses bigger servo as well..... But IMO Coupe setup will handle these calipers......but the driver must have in mind that braking feel and braking performance are different things.......
20VT - Alfa 156 2.0 - Alfa 156 Mid-Engined RWD - Locost 20VT
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1515143
12/11/2014 02:19
12/11/2014 02:19
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Per
Unregistered
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Per
Unregistered
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No worries mate, I'll be ok.
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1528936
09/03/2015 21:26
09/03/2015 21:26
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 358 Slovenia
Mrzly_slo
Making a profit
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Making a profit
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 358
Slovenia
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Couple of weeks ago I changed my stock 284mm x 22mm discs and stock Lucas calipers. Now I am using Alfa 166/Kappa 20vt 4 pot Brembo with 305mm x 28mm discs (Coupe 20vt/Mito Qv). This set up is so much better compared to the stock! The initial bite is superb and heavy braking from 140+ mph is not a problem any more...Pedal feel and travel are the same as before (no need to change brake master cylinder). You need to make 2 steel brackets. Here are some pics : Some useful info : 284mm x 22mm discs - 6 kg each disc 305mm x 28mm discs - 8.3 kg each disc 310mm x 28mm discs - almost 9kg each disc 330mm x 32mm discs - 10.3 kg each disc I'm doing the exact same project, could someone help me with the brackets? Does anyone know this user is he could get me the dimensions of the brackets?
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1548055
29/08/2015 23:07
29/08/2015 23:07
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 148 Sofia, Bulgaria
injekciona
On a journey
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On a journey
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 148
Sofia, Bulgaria
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Almost an year ago I bought a pair of Alfa 166 Brembo calipers just for 40£. I finally managed to rebuild and install them on my 16vt. My current setup is PFC 1001.11 brake pads + 20VT MTEC Brake discs.
Last edited by injekciona; 29/08/2015 23:11.
Jet Black E46 M3 EX - Broom Yellow Fiat Coupe 1.8 -> 2.0 16VT Speed Red Fiat Coupe 2.0 16VT R.I.P.
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1569669
14/04/2016 20:56
14/04/2016 20:56
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digitalundgrd
Unregistered
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digitalundgrd
Unregistered
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Last edited by digitalundgrd; 14/04/2016 20:56.
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1570705
22/04/2016 15:37
22/04/2016 15:37
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digitalundgrd
Unregistered
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digitalundgrd
Unregistered
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So my first impressions with the 330mm -> - braking is stronger, more feel to the pedal and even better bite ! Fade...What was that? Now the bad news -> With this 330mm in front and stock 240mm at the rear I think the braking bias is very different and ABS is not calibrated properly and it kicks in very very early. When I brake a little harder for the first time, I almost crashed into the car in front of me because the ABS was kicking like mad but the car was not decelerating properly I am little confused because I am not sure why the ABS is triggered so early : 1) The new bigger discs make so much braking force in front so that the rear end rises and rear tyres lose grip -> ABS kicks in or 2) When I brake, the front tyres loose grip because of too much front bias -> ABS kicks in Opinions?
Last edited by digitalundgrd; 22/04/2016 15:38.
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1570988
25/04/2016 10:27
25/04/2016 10:27
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,296 Sandhurst
Begbie
ex El Presidente
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ex El Presidente
I AM a Coop
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,296
Sandhurst
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I run 330mm on the front (and 300mm) on the rear and I never had any ABS issue when tracking the car around Spa. I'd say you have other problems elsewhere that is causing the ABS to kick in.
Your car is Usain Bolt with wellies
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1573533
14/05/2016 06:09
14/05/2016 06:09
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 148 Sofia, Bulgaria
injekciona
On a journey
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On a journey
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 148
Sofia, Bulgaria
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In my opinion, the 166 Brembo is the right choice, the brake pads are quite bigger then the 20VT ones and you can fit more aftermarket wheels without spacers. The 166 brake pads are the same as the EVO 5/6/7/8/9/, STI, Megane RS, so there is a wider range for fast road/track pads. In berlinasportivo forum you can find drawings of brackets for the 16VT/155Q4 hub carrier that will be needed to install 166 Brembo with 20VT brake discs.
Jet Black E46 M3 EX - Broom Yellow Fiat Coupe 1.8 -> 2.0 16VT Speed Red Fiat Coupe 2.0 16VT R.I.P.
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1575354
30/05/2016 00:10
30/05/2016 00:10
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,252 Windsor/ Reading
knight7660
Competition Level
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Competition Level
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,252
Windsor/ Reading
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it may run a 330mm disc but the brake pad in the calipers look tiny. would have to look into that
LE53 (452BHp & 389ftlb's with Quaife) Wine red VIS FOOFY Audi RS4 B7
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: Begbie]
#1575934
04/06/2016 13:24
04/06/2016 13:24
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digitalundgrd
Unregistered
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digitalundgrd
Unregistered
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I run 330mm on the front (and 300mm) on the rear and I never had any ABS issue when tracking the car around Spa. I'd say you have other problems elsewhere that is causing the ABS to kick in. Problem solved After 500-600 miles and proper bed in of the pads/discs - braking is stronger and no early triggering of the abs Last week I took part in the Bulgarian Track day for Italian cars and I won second place with the coop No problems with the brakes during the event
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: Hoops82]
#1582088
09/08/2016 13:01
09/08/2016 13:01
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Julien
Unregistered
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Julien
Unregistered
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Lancia delta 3's of 09 vintage use 330mm discs that look like they will fit directly onto a 16vt hub. I have ordered some part number Brembo 09.A500.10 (superceeded by the coated version 09.A500.11)to be fitted with the alfa 166 4 pot brembo callipers and a spacer bracket to get the correct axial offset. Disc thickness is the correct 28mm, PCD is the correct 4*98 (rare size) and hub center is very similar. I will update if it works, i think others have done it on other forums but haven't found anything on here. I have this setup on my coupe, it works perfectly ! An other member has also this kit and there is no problem.
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: Hoops82]
#1582291
11/08/2016 16:50
11/08/2016 16:50
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Julien
Unregistered
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Julien
Unregistered
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Thanks Julien,
ALors puis tu a mis les 284mm disques a l'arriere? No, (je vois qu'il te reste un peu de Français ) In fact, going 330mm only gives you something like 10% more "front stopping power" from 284mm discs (I had made a calculation but don't remember where I put the file). This 10% are nothing on the road, and installing sport suspensions/short springs will increase braking power on rear wheels (less mass transfer and the brake valve linked to the rear anti-roll bar will be less active = more brake pressure). Stock rear solid 240mm discs are big enough even for track day.
Last edited by Julien; 11/08/2016 16:53.
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1582664
17/08/2016 01:22
17/08/2016 01:22
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digitalundgrd
Unregistered
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digitalundgrd
Unregistered
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I have this setup on my coupe, it works perfectly ! An other member has also this kit and there is no problem. Me too
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: Freddan72]
#1582959
20/08/2016 22:13
20/08/2016 22:13
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Julien
Unregistered
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Julien
Unregistered
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Can't find any info regarding the bracket for the Alfa 166 caliper together with 330x28 disc. Do you have a CAD drawing Julien? Yes I have one i will post it As sonn as possible
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1582962
20/08/2016 22:50
20/08/2016 22:50
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 555 Bulgaria
Ferrarist
Enjoying the ride
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Enjoying the ride
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 555
Bulgaria
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In fact, going 330mm only gives you something like 10% more "front stopping power" from 284mm discs (I had made a calculation but don't remember where I put the file).
Totally agree, but i guess you know that if using wider front tires, slicks or semi's, this 10% will be more than that..... IMHO the biggest advantage of 330mm is that they can not overheat.....even on trackday.....harsh trackday.....
20VT - Alfa 156 2.0 - Alfa 156 Mid-Engined RWD - Locost 20VT
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: Ferrarist]
#1582965
20/08/2016 23:31
20/08/2016 23:31
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Julien
Unregistered
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Julien
Unregistered
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In fact, going 330mm only gives you something like 10% more "front stopping power" from 284mm discs (I had made a calculation but don't remember where I put the file).
Totally agree, but i guess you know that if using wider front tires, slicks or semi's, this 10% will be more than that..... IMHO the biggest advantage of 330mm is that they can not overheat.....even on trackday.....harsh trackday..... Yes of course it's more for endurance than stopping power as original discs with good pads are enough...but only for 1 or 2 big stop, after they nearly burn
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: Freddan72]
#1582966
20/08/2016 23:33
20/08/2016 23:33
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Julien
Unregistered
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Julien
Unregistered
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Can't find any info regarding the bracket for the Alfa 166 caliper together with 330x28 disc. Do you have a CAD drawing Julien? Are alfa 166 calipers the same as fiat coupe 20VT ?
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1583008
21/08/2016 23:37
21/08/2016 23:37
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 555 Bulgaria
Ferrarist
Enjoying the ride
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Enjoying the ride
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 555
Bulgaria
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Can't find any info regarding the bracket for the Alfa 166 caliper together with 330x28 disc. Do you have a CAD drawing Julien? Are alfa 166 calipers the same as fiat coupe 20VT ? No - Alfa 166 Brembo has 150mm bolt distance and 20VT brembo is 130mm......
20VT - Alfa 156 2.0 - Alfa 156 Mid-Engined RWD - Locost 20VT
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1583009
21/08/2016 23:59
21/08/2016 23:59
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Wombat
Unregistered
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Wombat
Unregistered
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I believe GTV 24v 4 pot calipers bolt straight to the Coupe 20VT uprights.
I'll double check as I have a set and some spare Coupe uprights, but I kind of matched them up a year or so ago and recall they seemed to bolt straight on.
I must admit I thought 166 calipers were the same but have never had a set to play with.
Last edited by Wombat; 22/08/2016 00:12.
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1583019
22/08/2016 09:14
22/08/2016 09:14
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 148 Sofia, Bulgaria
injekciona
On a journey
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On a journey
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 148
Sofia, Bulgaria
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The calipers of the 20VT, 406 Coupe, GTV and the first 147/56GTA are all the same(130mm bolt distance and 305x28 brake discs). But the 166 and the Lancia Kappa ones are different, they have bigger brake pads, 150mm bolt distance and 310x28mm brake discs.
Jet Black E46 M3 EX - Broom Yellow Fiat Coupe 1.8 -> 2.0 16VT Speed Red Fiat Coupe 2.0 16VT R.I.P.
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1583021
22/08/2016 09:29
22/08/2016 09:29
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Julien
Unregistered
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Julien
Unregistered
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So, This is the adapters drawing to put 20vt calipers + 330mm discs on 16vt hub. Thickness of the main part is 20mm and material is stainless steel. You can go smaller if you want (like 12-15mm) but for me, not having any hesitation when hard braking at 250+kph easily worth 300grams more on each front hub You need to add some big "washers" of 8mm thick. those are visible on this photo : The small weld has just a "location" role, not strength, also you could weld it all around (that's what I did). If you're not sure, I can give you a contact to have them made (main part + washers + 12.9 grade bolts) for something around 150€ a pair + shipping cost. Regards
Last edited by Begbie; 22/08/2016 13:56. Reason: Fixed image tags
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1583044
22/08/2016 13:41
22/08/2016 13:41
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 555 Bulgaria
Ferrarist
Enjoying the ride
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Enjoying the ride
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 555
Bulgaria
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Thickness of the main part is 20mm and material is stainless steel. You can go smaller if you want (like 12-15mm) but for me, not having any hesitation when hard braking at 250+kph easily worth 300grams more on each front hub
It's better save than sorry, but i'm a "less weight as possible" freak, and was OK with 10mm thick bracket.....Driving AR 156, 1100kg, with 250\64\18 full slicks in front.......Just for your information, it's not advice or recommendation.....
20VT - Alfa 156 2.0 - Alfa 156 Mid-Engined RWD - Locost 20VT
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: Ferrarist]
#1583084
22/08/2016 22:53
22/08/2016 22:53
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Julien
Unregistered
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Julien
Unregistered
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Thickness of the main part is 20mm and material is stainless steel. You can go smaller if you want (like 12-15mm) but for me, not having any hesitation when hard braking at 250+kph easily worth 300grams more on each front hub
It's better save than sorry, but i'm a "less weight as possible" freak, and was OK with 10mm thick bracket.....Driving AR 156, 1100kg, with 250\64\18 full slicks in front.......Just for your information, it's not advice or recommendation..... No problem it's always good to have some returns from others . I wonder one thing : your brackets also have 2 threads in it or did you use bolts + nuts for mounting it on the hub ? (that's the main reason I took 20mm because I wanted to have bolts directly tightened in the adapter with max torque for 12.9 / M12, which is something around 110Nm. I know this is well overrated but this way I can sleep on both ears ). @t Begbie : thanks for the image redirecting (didn't have access to host server at work... )
Last edited by Julien; 22/08/2016 22:54.
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1583192
24/08/2016 15:39
24/08/2016 15:39
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 555 Bulgaria
Ferrarist
Enjoying the ride
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Enjoying the ride
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 555
Bulgaria
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I wonder one thing : your brackets also have 2 threads in it or did you use bolts + nuts for mounting it on the hub ?
Bolts+ nuts......
20VT - Alfa 156 2.0 - Alfa 156 Mid-Engined RWD - Locost 20VT
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1583469
29/08/2016 08:54
29/08/2016 08:54
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digitalundgrd
Unregistered
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digitalundgrd
Unregistered
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This is the adapters drawing to put 20vt calipers + 330mm discs on 16vt hub.
20vt calipers use smaller pads than 166 4pot Brembo. IMO there will be around 10mm of the brake disc that will become rusty because disc/pads won't contact with each other there. So what is the point of using bigger discs (330mm) when the pad area remains the same as with the oem smaller disc (305mm) ?
Last edited by digitalundgrd; 29/08/2016 08:57.
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1583471
29/08/2016 09:26
29/08/2016 09:26
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Julien
Unregistered
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Julien
Unregistered
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This is the adapters drawing to put 20vt calipers + 330mm discs on 16vt hub.
20vt calipers use smaller pads than 166 4pot Brembo. IMO there will be around 10mm of the brake disc that will become rusty because disc/pads won't contact with each other there. So what is the point of using bigger discs (330mm) when the pad area remains the same as with the oem smaller disc (305mm) ? Those adapters are for 16VT, not 20vt. Anyway, even if you put them on 20VT (with 16VT hub) you will have more braking power because the braking point is further from the wheel rotating axis. You will also have more endurance as the discs are bigger (more energy/heat can be absorbed). Pads area is always linked to pistons area/pad material : put a giant pad with a hard compound on a tiny brake piston and you will get nearly no braking power.
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1583598
31/08/2016 09:11
31/08/2016 09:11
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digitalundgrd
Unregistered
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digitalundgrd
Unregistered
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: ]
#1586821
16/10/2016 07:32
16/10/2016 07:32
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 229 Perth, Western Australia
Hoops82
Making a profit
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Making a profit
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 229
Perth, Western Australia
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I have now amassed the parts required to convert to 330mm discs with Alfa 166 brembo callipers and am pretty excited. The callipers are in great condition and have excellent piston freedom and fit. The discs seem huge and are coated in the central ducts so shouldn't rust on the non friction surfaces for a while. I ve cleaned and coated the callipers in a gloss res to make the car faster and the brakes even better . I have new steel braided lines also and a pressure bleeder to get all the air out. Now I just have to wait until I have the time to do it. In the same place as the car and get the brackets machined. pretty excited anyway. If anyone has a template they wish to share for these then it would be much appreciated. If not then I will share mine when i have finished the fabrication.
Last edited by Hoops82; 16/10/2016 22:53.
Resting UK
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: Hoops82]
#1626333
25/10/2018 17:00
25/10/2018 17:00
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,783 In the coupe.
magooagain
Club Member 259
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Club Member 259
Forum is my life
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,783
In the coupe.
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I have now amassed the parts required to convert to 330mm discs with Alfa 166 brembo callipers and am pretty excited. The callipers are in great condition and have excellent piston freedom and fit. The discs seem huge and are coated in the central ducts so shouldn't rust on the non friction surfaces for a while. I ve cleaned and coated the callipers in a gloss res to make the car faster and the brakes even better . I have new steel braided lines also and a pressure bleeder to get all the air out. Now I just have to wait until I have the time to do it. In the same place as the car and get the brackets machined. pretty excited anyway. If anyone has a template they wish to share for these then it would be much appreciated. If not then I will share mine when i have finished the fabrication. I have recently bought a set of 330 Alfa calipers with the fitting brackets. Send me a pm with a email address and I will try to photo a measure the brackets if you like.
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Re: Alfa 330mm rotors
[Re: deannn_20VT]
#1626354
26/10/2018 09:15
26/10/2018 09:15
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,783 In the coupe.
magooagain
Club Member 259
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Club Member 259
Forum is my life
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,783
In the coupe.
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Thanks, just bought a set of GTA calipers with fitting brackets The message was for the other poster.
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