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Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results
[Re: Begbie]
#1409123
05/02/2013 21:09
05/02/2013 21:09
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 8,057 Southsea
Gunzi
Club member 189, Former Club President
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Club member 189, Former Club President
Je suis un Coupé
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 8,057
Southsea
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I'll let Barbz comment on that one, but that fluctuation usually is a clear sign of a failing EBV. Our cars are very similar, you have a fleamap and exhaust and I have a GTEC 1, no oil recirculation system for the intake & HDI boost controller. Everything else on our cars is standard. OK I can't edit my original post, so here are my graphs: Power & Torque Power & Boost Power & AFR
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Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results
[Re: Begbie]
#1409124
05/02/2013 21:12
05/02/2013 21:12
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 8,057 Southsea
Gunzi
Club member 189, Former Club President
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Club member 189, Former Club President
Je suis un Coupé
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 8,057
Southsea
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I took some photos on the day. First thing 996 GT3 RS Barbz's Mean Green Machine Nick's Tipo And a Pink Coupe thanks to the dodgy camera! When I left I was greeted by this beauty, my favourite car from the 80's
Last edited by Gunzi; 05/02/2013 22:36.
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Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results
[Re: Gunzi]
#1409138
05/02/2013 21:58
05/02/2013 21:58
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Barbz
Unregistered
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Barbz
Unregistered
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I'll let Barbz comment on that one, but that fluctuation usually is a clear sign of a failing EBV. Quite possible the ebv. Something i'm sure flea can shed some light on, as he will have the data logs.
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Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results
[Re: ]
#1409158
05/02/2013 23:48
05/02/2013 23:48
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 268 Swansea
DLT
Making a profit
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Making a profit
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 268
Swansea
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505bhp 382lbft @ 2.15bar. My heart's not bleeding. I'm over the moon. ![cool cool](/forum/images/graemlins/default/cool.gif) That is an awesome result fair play!! Out of interest what were your AFR readings like? Perhaps you could share your graphs? Are you still on the factory ecu?
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Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results
[Re: Begbie]
#1409184
06/02/2013 09:10
06/02/2013 09:10
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,405 Castle Combe
Flea
Forum is my life
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Forum is my life
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,405
Castle Combe
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All and well having great peak power figures but the journey to 500hp can be an interesting one. ![laugh laugh](/forum/images/graemlins/default/laugh.gif) At least scan it so it shows the X axis too! ![rofl rofl](/forum/images/graemlins/default/rofl.gif) Can we see your graphs in full with axis (all three graphs please), and anyone else who hasn't put them up yet? Your car looks to perform very similar to Speedygonzales, same turbo etc, although Mick is still on the standard manifold.
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Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results
[Re: ]
#1409185
06/02/2013 09:12
06/02/2013 09:12
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Biggenz
Unregistered
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Biggenz
Unregistered
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All and well having great peak power figures but the journey to 500hp can be an interesting one On tarmac, both coupe's have unrelenting power deliver in every gear. Biggenz's has 1 main advantage due to the size of turbocharger, he's able to stretch the rpm threshold further in each gear by 1300rpm. ![laugh laugh](/forum/images/graemlins/default/laugh.gif) I make up the loss lower down for a more track focused setup. ![cool cool](/forum/images/graemlins/default/cool.gif) Horses for courses.. I know I've been going on about my results for the day, but it's not all good news. For a start, I'm down 60hp from Flea's dyno. How did that happen?? And before anyone says the hearbreaker under reads, there were a few standard cars that made near enough exactly what they quote in the handbook. Then if you look at Barbz's graphs, he made exactly the same power as I did, with a smaller turbo and with more torque. And he has 600rpm spool on me. The only advantage I have is I can rev higher.
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Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results
[Re: DLT]
#1409187
06/02/2013 09:20
06/02/2013 09:20
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,405 Castle Combe
Flea
Forum is my life
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Forum is my life
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,405
Castle Combe
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505bhp 382lbft @ 2.15bar. My heart's not bleeding. I'm over the moon. ![cool cool](/forum/images/graemlins/default/cool.gif) That is an awesome result fair play!! Out of interest what were your AFR readings like? Perhaps you could share your graphs? Are you still on the factory ecu? It is awesome results really, as Biggenz spec is not so sophisticated. Still using the standard manifold and standard cams. There is also no water/methanol injection to help things, and worst of all it was mapped on 97 octane fuel as Pero get's this free on a company card! It could see another 30bhp+ if it had the benefit of all these other things. Oh and yes, still using the factory Bosch ECU ![thumb thumb](/forum/images/graemlins/default/icon_thumbs.gif)
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Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results
[Re: Flea]
#1409192
06/02/2013 09:31
06/02/2013 09:31
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Biggenz
Unregistered
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Biggenz
Unregistered
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It is awesome results really, as Biggenz spec is not so sophisticated. Still using the standard manifold and standard cams. There is also no water/methanol injection to help things, and worst of all it was mapped on 97 octane fuel as Pero get's this free on a company card! It could see another 30bhp+ if it had the benefit of all these other things. Oh and yes, still using the factory Bosch ECU Of course I'm running Aquamist!!
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Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results
[Re: nick_d]
#1409194
06/02/2013 09:32
06/02/2013 09:32
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Biggenz
Unregistered
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Biggenz
Unregistered
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Can we list any others that have a graph in fleas dyno league table so we can compare??
I'm actually making a new Heartbreaker league table where people can put up their results to compare.
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Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results
[Re: stuart81]
#1409196
06/02/2013 09:49
06/02/2013 09:49
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,405 Castle Combe
Flea
Forum is my life
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Forum is my life
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,405
Castle Combe
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So whats the verdict on these graphs? Any issues? The car is pretty much standard apart from powerflow exhaust and FC performance remap. Yes the boost does show some significant fluctuations, a common problem with the standard EBV. Can you feel these fluctuations on the road? The dyno can often upset the calibrations for the first few runs due to the loading, but if you feel the fluctuations on the road (or see on a gauge), then time to get an upgraded EBV or use an external controller. Send me a PM if you need any more advice.
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Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results
[Re: ]
#1409197
06/02/2013 09:54
06/02/2013 09:54
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,405 Castle Combe
Flea
Forum is my life
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Forum is my life
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,405
Castle Combe
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All and well having great peak power figures but the journey to 500hp can be an interesting one On tarmac, both coupe's have unrelenting power deliver in every gear. Biggenz's has 1 main advantage due to the size of turbocharger, he's able to stretch the rpm threshold further in each gear by 1300rpm. ![laugh laugh](/forum/images/graemlins/default/laugh.gif) I make up the loss lower down for a more track focused setup. ![cool cool](/forum/images/graemlins/default/cool.gif) Horses for courses.. I know I've been going on about my results for the day, but it's not all good news. For a start, I'm down 60hp from Flea's dyno. How did that happen?? And before anyone says the hearbreaker under reads, there were a few standard cars that made near enough exactly what they quote in the handbook. Then if you look at Barbz's graphs, he made exactly the same power as I did, with a smaller turbo and with more torque. And he has 600rpm spool on me. The only advantage I have is I can rev higher. My mistake on the Aquamist, but you did skimp on the good 99 octane fuel!! Anyway, you like your lag monster, why is everyone so scared of lag you would say ![laugh laugh](/forum/images/graemlins/default/laugh.gif) Speedygonzales also has the same GTX3076 0.82 turbo as Barbz (standard manifold though), and his car also spools up 600rpm earlier with more torque and less boost than your car. It is just the very nature of the turbo you have, designed for big boost and drag racing!
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Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results
[Re: Flea]
#1409201
06/02/2013 10:08
06/02/2013 10:08
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Biggenz
Unregistered
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Biggenz
Unregistered
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Speedygonzales also has the same GTX3076 0.82 turbo as Barbz (standard manifold though), and his car also spools up 600rpm earlier with more torque and less boost than your car. How much did Speedy make on the Maha again(which is more forgiving than the heartbreaker)?
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Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results
[Re: Flea]
#1409202
06/02/2013 10:15
06/02/2013 10:15
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Barbz
Unregistered
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Barbz
Unregistered
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Anyway, you like your lag monster, why is everyone so scared of lag you would say Speedygonzales also has the same GTX3076 0.82 turbo as Barbz (standard manifold though), and his car also spools up 600rpm earlier with more torque and less boost than your car. It is just the very nature of the turbo you have, designed for big boost and drag racing!
Was Speedy's run in third gear?
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Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results
[Re: Flea]
#1409209
06/02/2013 10:54
06/02/2013 10:54
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Barbz
Unregistered
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Barbz
Unregistered
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Can we see your graphs in full with axis (all three graphs please), and anyone else who hasn't put them up yet?
Boost AFR
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Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results
[Re: ]
#1409216
06/02/2013 11:46
06/02/2013 11:46
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Barbz
Unregistered
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Barbz
Unregistered
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It's brain numbing sometimes debating data, graphs and dyno controversies. Lets switch over to a more positive and interesting observation. ![wink wink](/forum/images/graemlins/default/wink.gif) Here's a bhp per ton table of the top two Coupe's of the day. Biggenz 20v 2.0l 505hp = 382hp per tonBarbz 20v 2.1L 485hp = 373hp per tonCars on our heels. ![laugh laugh](/forum/images/graemlins/default/laugh.gif) Noble M12 GTO - (321) TVR Tuscan Convertible - (337) Ferrari F430 - (342) Lamborghini Murciélago - (351) Corvette Z06 - (361) Westfield Sport 2000 - (370) And not forgetting the highest hp recorded on the day.. The mighty Gtr R35 Skyline 569hp = 327 per tonShows heels to: BMW M5 (E60) - (278) Ferrari 550 Maranello - (287) Mercedes-Benz SL65 AMG - (295) Porsche 911 GT3 RS - (997) (302) Porsche 959 - (315) TVR T350C - (318)
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Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results
[Re: Flea]
#1409238
06/02/2013 13:19
06/02/2013 13:19
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Barbz
Unregistered
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Barbz
Unregistered
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Oh and I could show you a hundred cars that make standard power on my dyno. In fact, we had a Mclaren M1B on last week which has a 6.2 Chevy V8 on carbs. The engine was freshly rebuilt, it made bang on 550bhp which is the standard power figure for when it was built back in the 60s! Another M1B followed which was bored out to 6.9 litres and a few more tricks made 640bhp. Surrey RR is the lowest reading dyno bar none, if you think that makes it more accurate then your call. For me I want solid repeatable results between cars and modifcations, that reflect how the car performs on the road, and correlates with all the same data. We're they run in 4th then?
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Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results
[Re: Begbie]
#1409307
06/02/2013 15:37
06/02/2013 15:37
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Nobby
Unregistered
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Nobby
Unregistered
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I'm sure I overheard Charlie speaking to the GTR owner saying it wasn't quite running as smooth as it should - possibly mentioned 'plugs' and the owner said it needed a full service. So it could have made more!
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Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results
[Re: ]
#1409331
06/02/2013 19:17
06/02/2013 19:17
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Barbz
Unregistered
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Barbz
Unregistered
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Of course I'm running Aquamist!! Forgot to switch mine on that day. ![tongue tongue](/forum/images/graemlins/default/tongue.gif)
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Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results
[Re: Begbie]
#1409333
06/02/2013 19:39
06/02/2013 19:39
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johnnybravoturbo
Unregistered
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johnnybravoturbo
Unregistered
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Back on topic
Moral of the story here is no matter who maps the cars they never read identical on different rollers.
As long as your happy with the car and how it drives then it doesn't matter what the dyno said. After all peak power figures don't add inches to your Richard.
I had my car mapped at FCP and got 550ish. The next day on a different rollers it got 583bhp.
On maha rollers it got 498.
My current setup got 579 bhp which is around 94% VE with a 2.5 using the 3076. On dastek it made 612.
On heartbreaker it probably would be around 530-550 maybe. But I will always quote the 612.
For all those who maybe got irregular afr results then try testing it on the road as no matter how your dyno or the mapper tunes it,there will be changes due to load and environment the dynos simply can't simulate.
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Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results
[Re: Begbie]
#1409339
06/02/2013 20:06
06/02/2013 20:06
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Biggenz
Unregistered
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Biggenz
Unregistered
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Who are you and what have you done with Johnny?
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Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results
[Re: ]
#1409345
06/02/2013 20:26
06/02/2013 20:26
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Biggenz
Unregistered
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Biggenz
Unregistered
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Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results
[Re: ]
#1409349
06/02/2013 20:42
06/02/2013 20:42
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Barbz
Unregistered
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Barbz
Unregistered
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Re: Surrey RR - 2nd Feb 2013 - Results
[Re: ]
#1409366
06/02/2013 21:38
06/02/2013 21:38
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johnnybravoturbo
Unregistered
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johnnybravoturbo
Unregistered
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Barbs your always changing things This is where I have evidence that there's two sides to a story Here's mine Taken shortly after the above Jbt upfront,Barbz in his favourite position behind me. Know your place little man.
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