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Re: The Official Brazilian F1 Grand Prix Thread 2012 [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1393975
25/11/2012 20:11
25/11/2012 20:11
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Cambridge & Cotswolds
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MeanRedSpider Offline
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M

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Cambridge & Cotswolds
Shame about race and championship result but a fantastic edge-of-the-seat finale to the season

Re: The Official Brazilian F1 Grand Prix Thread 2012 [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1393982
25/11/2012 20:57
25/11/2012 20:57
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A great race, that has left me not £1,000 better off frown (based on a pre-season bet I made on Alonso winning the championship)..

Made the whole race more exciting for me though smile

Re: The Official Brazilian F1 Grand Prix Thread 2012 [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1393986
25/11/2012 21:10
25/11/2012 21:10
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,286
West Berks
skinflint Offline
I need some sleep
skinflint  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2007
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I can't make this play on my PC.

Race Stewards Insist thet Vettel Overtake was made under Red yellow Flags - Planet F1

What role do stewards have in F1 anyway?

click to enlarge

Nice to see Massa in such top form.

Re: The Official Brazilian F1 Grand Prix Thread 2012 [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1393987
25/11/2012 21:12
25/11/2012 21:12

T
Turbo_Verde
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What a race!! And being a triple world champion at Vettels age is a hell of an achievement regardless of my opinion of him. Gutted for Hamilton as he didn't deserve to go out like that, but yet again, in bad conditions Jenson Button does show how to drive quickly and flawlessly!

Re: The Official Brazilian F1 Grand Prix Thread 2012 [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1394000
25/11/2012 22:26
25/11/2012 22:26

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DennisK
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What a fantastic race. I was just mentioning to my brother right before Di Resta's crash that the two flat out kinks before the start finish line are notoriously tretcherous in the wet and 'bang!'. Not the way we wanted the race to finish, but again...what a fantastic race!

Hulkenberg's performance was immense, right up the point where he oversteered into Hamilton. Lewis can count himself unlucky, but you do have to ask the question that would Jenson Button have put himself in that same vulnerable position; toughing it out on the outside of a wet corner with a charging youngster desperate for his first win diving up the inside off line? Sometimes, Lewis doesn't help himself and puts himself in risky situations (think back to Valencia this year and his altercation with Maldonado). I still felt kinda sorry for Lewis though. Not least because it meant that Mclaren didn't claim second in the contructors. I was VERY happy to see Jenson win though! laugh

I really did think that Vettel was finished when he fell victim to the predicted opening lap turn 4 chaos. I can't believe how lucky he was that his Red Bull survived two big hits. If I were him, I'd ask for both rear uprights to his car and hang them up for posterity. With no straightline speed, a damaged floor, a wrong pit stop call and no radio, I doff my cap to him for handling the whole situation fantastically well. He's a deserving triple world champion...

...but not as much as Alonso. I never thought I'd see the day, when I'd say that I'm gutted for Alonso not taking the championship. But I think he deserved the championship head and shoulders more than anyone else this season. What he did this season is amazing and he is rightly proud of his achievements. In his interview, he made a very good point that he's gained a lot more repect and recognition from this year. He's certainly gone up in my estimation and I thought he was brilliant before. It must be said that Massa drove brilliantly today too. It will be interesting to see how he carries his late season form into 2013 and if it starts to cause friction with Alonso. If there is one area where Alonso has a weakness, its that he just cannot handle it when a team mate is beating him.

Also, what an amazing result for Caterham to leapfrog past Marussia! Although it has to be said that Caterham have underperformed considering what they have at their disposal compared to Marussia. They have a bigger budget, better facilities, a Red Bull drivetrain (including KERS) yet they only just scraped past at the very last.

A great drive from Jenson. Yet again proving that he's the master of changeable conditions where a delicate feel for grip is needed. It will have felt good to have been 40sec up the road from Lewis in their final race as team mates and it can't be underestimated the boost that taking the final win into winter has on a team. Bodes well for Jenson next year. smile

It was very sad to see the departure of Jake Humphrey from our F1 screens. Watching the F1 Forum today really showed the chemistry that he, DC and EJ have built up over the years and his leaving will be a big loss. Lee McKenzie is a worthy replacement, but the sense of cameraderie won't be there.

Finally, the loss of all the races being shown live on the BBC wasn't as much of an issue as I thought it would be. I've still loved the season and didn't think I missed out on much. I've watched a couple of the live races on Sky and their punditry is just so boring (Brundle and Davidson excepted). They also broadcast for so long that you actually feel like you've suffered from F1 over exposure and thats coming from me - a diehard F1 nut. The Sky F1 website is a good place for post race stuff though. laugh

What a great finale to a fantastic season. March 17th can't come around soon enough.

Its going to be a long four months.

Re: The Official Brazilian F1 Grand Prix Thread 2012 [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1394011
25/11/2012 23:25
25/11/2012 23:25
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,685
Berlin
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Berlin
The only real annoyance about the highlights races was the BBC's insistence on giving the results on news programs *before* they showed the race - usually without warning. I complained to the Beeb about it, but got 'we have to give the news blah blah blah' in return.


[Linked Image]
Don't get no respect! Coupe Fiat 1994-2000 - an owner's guide <-- clicky!
Re: The Official Brazilian F1 Grand Prix Thread 2012 [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1394014
25/11/2012 23:29
25/11/2012 23:29

D
DennisK
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DennisK
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D



Yeah, its a pain in the arse when that happens. Fortunately I've gotten into the habit of avoiding all news broadcasts on those Sundays when a race isn't live on BBC.

Unfortunately, I then take a quick look on Facebook to see whats happening and forget I've subscribed to various F1 sites on there. frown

Re: The Official Brazilian F1 Grand Prix Thread 2012 [Re: skinflint] #1394018
25/11/2012 23:41
25/11/2012 23:41

D
DennisK
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DennisK
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Originally Posted By: skinflint
I can't make this play on my PC.

Race Stewards Insist thet Vettel Overtake was made under Red yellow Flags - Planet F1

What role do stewards have in F1 anyway?

click to enlarge


Try this link instead.

Re: The Official Brazilian F1 Grand Prix Thread 2012 [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1394022
26/11/2012 00:06
26/11/2012 00:06
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,286
West Berks
skinflint Offline
I need some sleep
skinflint  Offline
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Posts: 3,286
West Berks
Thanks - that one works fine.
I guess that spurious green between the yellows could be a bit confusing.

Re: The Official Brazilian F1 Grand Prix Thread 2012 [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1394038
26/11/2012 07:38
26/11/2012 07:38
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,685
Berlin
barnacle Offline
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Posts: 33,685
Berlin
Hmm. So that's a Georgie... that dress made out of cloth or paint?

Oh, um, where was I? Ah, yes. He passed the yellow before the overtake. Naughty boy. Retrospective two place drop?


[Linked Image]
Don't get no respect! Coupe Fiat 1994-2000 - an owner's guide <-- clicky!
Re: The Official Brazilian F1 Grand Prix Thread 2012 [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1394040
26/11/2012 07:47
26/11/2012 07:47
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,852
Cambridge & Cotswolds
M
MeanRedSpider Offline
Je suis un Coupé
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Posts: 8,852
Cambridge & Cotswolds
What's Vettel on about with the "dirty tricks" comment? Why can't he just be happy in victory? I can't stand that man

Re: The Official Brazilian F1 Grand Prix Thread 2012 [Re: ] #1394065
26/11/2012 10:34
26/11/2012 10:34
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 13,200
england
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came2dance Offline
I AM a Coop
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england
Originally Posted By: DennisK
Originally Posted By: skinflint
I can't make this play on my PC.

Race Stewards Insist thet Vettel Overtake was made under Red yellow Flags - Planet F1

What role do stewards have in F1 anyway?

click to enlarge


Try this link instead.


Thanks Dennis, I've watched that video several times now and i still havn't seen any race incidents........ who's that laidee in the white dres? not Murray Walker that's for sure smile

I think the whole incident is just sour grapes fro the Vettel haters really. He had a fantastic day given the circumstances. One of the best races of the season IMO fab track, fab race, fab ending to the season. Unlucky for Lewis, you are right Dennis not many other drivers would have put themselves in that position - defending the lead of an F1 one race, except it should be "not many driver *could* have put themselves in that position" smile



[Linked Image]www.chrisdoyle-photography.co.uk

Re: The Official Brazilian F1 Grand Prix Thread 2012 [Re: came2dance] #1394073
26/11/2012 11:12
26/11/2012 11:12

T
TimR
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TimR
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T



Hamilton shouldnt've been in that position anyway as Hulkenburg had previously been 40 seconds ahead of him .......

Re: The Official Brazilian F1 Grand Prix Thread 2012 [Re: came2dance] #1394452
27/11/2012 23:31
27/11/2012 23:31

D
DennisK
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DennisK
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Originally Posted By: came2dance
Unlucky for Lewis, you are right Dennis not many other drivers would have put themselves in that position - defending the lead of an F1 one race, except it should be "not many driver *could* have put themselves in that position" smile


Don't think I agree with that, but I do see where you're coming from. Lewis lives and dies on his instincts on track. Sometimes it works, but sometimes it lands him in trouble where a more measured response would be better.

With the Hulk incident, there were a load of laps still left to run. Lewis should have sized up the situation, conceded the corner and lived to carry on the fight. To coin the oft used phrase; to finish first, first you have to finish.

Still, its this combative nature which makes Lewis such a great driver to watch and to a large extent, defines him. I'm still more of a Jenson fan though. laugh

Also, I've just read this great blog post from Jake Humphrey. Check it out.

Re: The Official Brazilian F1 Grand Prix Thread 2012 [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1394456
27/11/2012 23:50
27/11/2012 23:50
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,852
Cambridge & Cotswolds
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MeanRedSpider Offline
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M

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,852
Cambridge & Cotswolds
I don't think you can separate the driver from how he drives. Lewis was minding his own business and shouldn't have been hit by Hulk - the stewards agreed. It's part of what makes Lewis more successful than Jenson - as much as I admire Jenson's driving style.

Re: The Official Brazilian F1 Grand Prix Thread 2012 [Re: ] #1394468
28/11/2012 01:48
28/11/2012 01:48
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 23,315
North Wales
Theresa Offline
Former Presidentessa Club member 58
Theresa  Offline
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Posts: 23,315
North Wales
Originally Posted By: DennisK
Also, I've just read this great blog post from Jake Humphrey. Check it out.


Excellent blog, although I'm gutted he's leaving F1 frown

I liked his friendly, knowledgeable and honest comments and enjoyed his presenting for F1.

Jake was my second pleasure to look at and listen to, with the F1 cars being first of course laugh

You up for the job now then Dennis? cool laugh

Re: The Official Brazilian F1 Grand Prix Thread 2012 [Re: Theresa] #1394492
28/11/2012 08:53
28/11/2012 08:53

T
tim42
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tim42
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T



Originally Posted By: Theresa
Originally Posted By: DennisK
Also, I've just read this great blog post from Jake Humphrey. Check it out.


Excellent blog, although I'm gutted he's leaving F1 frown

I liked his friendly, knowledgeable and honest comments and enjoyed his presenting for F1.



+1 for that thumb . Good luck to Jake!

Re: The Official Brazilian F1 Grand Prix Thread 2012 [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1394498
28/11/2012 09:25
28/11/2012 09:25
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,286
West Berks
skinflint Offline
I need some sleep
skinflint  Offline
I need some sleep

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,286
West Berks
+ 1 more. He drew a perfect balance.
What will the BBC be doing next year with the coverage?

Re: The Official Brazilian F1 Grand Prix Thread 2012 [Re: skinflint] #1394502
28/11/2012 09:39
28/11/2012 09:39
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,895
2011 and 2015 FCCUK F1 Champ.
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bezzer Offline
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Posts: 5,895
2011 and 2015 FCCUK F1 Champ.
Is Lee MacKenzie taking over from Jake?



......My Boy...... (PB #7)
Re: The Official Brazilian F1 Grand Prix Thread 2012 [Re: bezzer] #1394512
28/11/2012 10:11
28/11/2012 10:11

T
TimR
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TimR
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T



Originally Posted By: bezzer
Is Lee MacKenzie taking over from Jake?



That's what I've read.

Re: The Official Brazilian F1 Grand Prix Thread 2012 [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1394535
28/11/2012 11:26
28/11/2012 11:26

T
Truffle
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Truffle
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Hope he isn't coming to Sky!

Re: The Official Brazilian F1 Grand Prix Thread 2012 [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1394589
28/11/2012 14:10
28/11/2012 14:10
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,286
West Berks
skinflint Offline
I need some sleep
skinflint  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2007
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West Berks
Seems to be BT Vision Premier league coverage.

It seems that the next few years' BBC coverage will be the same as this year - half live races, and half highlights.

Re: The Official Brazilian F1 Grand Prix Thread 2012 [Re: MeanRedSpider] #1394685
28/11/2012 20:46
28/11/2012 20:46

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DennisK
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Originally Posted By: MeanRedSpider
It's part of what makes Lewis more successful than Jenson - as much as I admire Jenson's driving style.


Depends what you mean by successful. Over the three years they've been team mates, Jenson has outscored Lewis in overall points. laugh

Lewis is the better qualifier, but Jenson's race craft and ability to see the bigger picture is superior IMO. His inability to deal with a less than perfect car is very frustrating sometimes though. But if the car is exactly to his liking, I don't think there is anyone faster on the grid.

Yeah, I'm gutted that Jake Humprey is leaving the F1 coverage too. He was nothing short of brilliant.

Re: The Official Brazilian F1 Grand Prix Thread 2012 [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1394735
28/11/2012 23:23
28/11/2012 23:23
Joined: Mar 2006
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Cambridge & Cotswolds
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MeanRedSpider Offline
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Cambridge & Cotswolds
Agree that Jenson is fantastic in a good car. Lewis is far more exciting and never seems to give up which, I get the sense, Jenson does. My own driving style is, apparently, far more out of the Jenson school of motoring than the Lewis school (obviously leagues and leagues below). Lewis takes the car by the scruff of the neck - Jenson strokes it

Re: The Official Brazilian F1 Grand Prix Thread 2012 [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1394741
28/11/2012 23:34
28/11/2012 23:34
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,685
Berlin
barnacle Offline
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Berlin
And when he strokes it, it purrs.

Jenson is the better driver; Lewis may be the better racer. But I think Jenson is from the Damon Hill school of gentlemen drivers; Lewis is more of a Schumacher.

But both have been world champions.


[Linked Image]
Don't get no respect! Coupe Fiat 1994-2000 - an owner's guide <-- clicky!
Re: The Official Brazilian F1 Grand Prix Thread 2012 [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1394773
29/11/2012 07:34
29/11/2012 07:34
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 16,603
Corridor of Uncertainty
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Jim_Clennell Offline OP
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Jim_Clennell  Offline OP
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Posts: 16,603
Corridor of Uncertainty
Looks like Ferrari may be going to encourage the FIA to look again at Vettel's Pass "under yellows" of Vergne. Sounds as though there's enough doubt about the absence of a marshall's flag to enable the FIA to let it lie. We'll see...

Re: The Official Brazilian F1 Grand Prix Thread 2012 [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1394776
29/11/2012 08:30
29/11/2012 08:30
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 6,144
Southampton, Hants
Roadking Offline
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Originally Posted By: Jim_Clennell
Looks like Ferrari may be going to encourage the FIA to look again at Vettel's Pass "under yellows" of Vergne. Sounds as though there's enough doubt about the absence of a marshall's flag to enable the FIA to lie. We'll see...


wink


"RK's way seems the most sensible to me". ali_hire 16 Dec 2010
Re: The Official Brazilian F1 Grand Prix Thread 2012 [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1394790
29/11/2012 09:53
29/11/2012 09:53
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,286
West Berks
skinflint Offline
I need some sleep
skinflint  Offline
I need some sleep

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,286
West Berks
Looks like they need to find footage of a man waving a green flag by Friday.

Overturning the result at this late stage is wrong IMO. Fingers have been wagged, and Vettel spent a good period after the incident being told to "slow down".

If the marshals had acted decisively at the time I'm sure Vettel could have pulled another place.

Re: The Official Brazilian F1 Grand Prix Thread 2012 [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1394791
29/11/2012 09:56
29/11/2012 09:56
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 16,603
Corridor of Uncertainty
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Jim_Clennell Offline OP
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I think the absence of footage of the marshalling post drives a coach and horses (or at least a RB8) through any case for penalising Vettel. But it won't stop Ferrari trying. I hope they find footage in a way, as Skinflint says, it's finished, get over it.

Re: The Official Brazilian F1 Grand Prix Thread 2012 [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1394800
29/11/2012 10:54
29/11/2012 10:54

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MrB
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We're now (from a validity of the championship perspective) in a lose lose situation. Whatever happens it will be tainted either by 'he clearly passed under yellows, it's just one rule for Vettel/Red Bull and a different one for everyone else' or 'Alonso only won it because Ferrari appealed it's just one rule for Alonso/Ferrari and a different one for everyone else'.

For what it's worth, the video I watched does seem to show him passing under yellows, therefore he should be penalised (if evidence of a green flag can't be produced). The doubts around the existence of a green flag or not are likely to cause this to rumble on though!

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