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getting excited!
#138562
24/06/2006 15:56
24/06/2006 15:56
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367
Staffordshire
Nigel
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Forum veteran
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OP
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Posts: 17,367
Staffordshire
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Cylinder head porting / polishing with 3-angle valve seats is just about finished  Cams are sorted  Mad, bad GT2871RLS turbo has arrived  Forged pistons with ultra-cool "gapless" rings are ready  Special (and pricey) clutch is ordered  bank account is emptied  divorce papers are on the way 
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Re: getting excited!
#138563
24/06/2006 16:16
24/06/2006 16:16
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Looks like I'm going to have to find someone else to copy  Good luck Nigel
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Re: getting excited!
#138566
24/06/2006 18:46
24/06/2006 18:46
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Know the feeling Nigel, mine is also nearing completion . Hopefully should have it back within the next week or so . I haven't replaced the turbo like you, but am hoping to notice the performance difference with the cams and Greddy Profec B, and handling difference with proper camber adjustment and poly bushes at the front . Just need to get it remapped once it's bedded in, but will probably wait for the tubular manifold GB to resolve itself first... Phil
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Re: getting excited!
#138567
24/06/2006 19:28
24/06/2006 19:28
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Im in the same boat as you 2 guys aswell... getting near my coupe being back on the road. I have balanced pistons and rods, lots of headwork, gapless rings also, and im getting my greddy profec b fitted along with new hub flanges and wheel bearings (to make sure em wheels dont come off again). When you guys getting your cars back?
Ross
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Re: getting excited!
#138568
24/06/2006 19:49
24/06/2006 19:49
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Excellent news Nigel. I bet you are like a kid at Christmas now.
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Re: getting excited!
#138569
24/06/2006 19:54
24/06/2006 19:54
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
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Quote:
Fishy whats the news? is it bad?
Sounds like a new ECU is needed, which could be a bugger as new keys may be needed?
Not sure if the fella that owns my ex coop is on here?
Last edited by Fishy_Dave; 24/06/2006 20:19.
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Re: getting excited!
#138570
25/06/2006 05:16
25/06/2006 05:16
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
Forged pistons with ultra-cool "gapless" rings are ready
This may be a stupid question, but how do gapless rings work? How do you get them on the piston?
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Re: getting excited!
#138571
25/06/2006 07:32
25/06/2006 07:32
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Fishydave how the hell have you logged in as me and posted up under my name there?!?
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Re: getting excited!
#138572
25/06/2006 08:47
25/06/2006 08:47
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 548
Oxford
Sean_C
Enjoying the ride
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Enjoying the ride
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 548
Oxford
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Fishy....the owner of your ex-car is my brother. His forum name is 'intoodeep' (you can have your thread back now Nigel ) Sean
Enjoying Coop ownership, second time round . Also enjoying RWD action in a thundering V8 E90 M3.
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Re: getting excited!
#138574
25/06/2006 17:27
25/06/2006 17:27
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
Thanks, get him to call me if/when he comes to sell it.
Coming back to coop ownership again Dave??
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Re: getting excited!
#138576
25/06/2006 17:53
25/06/2006 17:53
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
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Thats what worries me, if I ever did sell I think I'd just regret it and want another one and then spend £££'s again getting her the way I want. Aye, they get into your blood I'm tellin' ye. 
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Re: getting excited!
#138578
25/06/2006 18:17
25/06/2006 18:17
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Dave you shouldnt be able to edit my posts though... Or is this a mod thing?? Nigels new business venture, test pilots for the space program lol
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Re: getting excited!
#138580
25/06/2006 19:03
25/06/2006 19:03
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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I would say its very very hard to actually have a 'gapless' ring on a piston unless donw as part of some super advanced machining process...
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Re: getting excited!
#138581
26/06/2006 01:26
26/06/2006 01:26
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,295
Sandhurst
Begbie
Ex El Presidente
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Ex El Presidente
I AM a Coop
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,295
Sandhurst
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well its not actually a gapless ring, more a total seal ring
Your car is Usain Bolt with wellies
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Re: getting excited!
#138583
26/06/2006 02:02
26/06/2006 02:02
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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How much is it for just the rings alone then or do you have to buy them as part of the kit per say?? Very interesting as it could be usefull for people with just a normal rebuild on the cards as the oil not going out the exhaust will help people more
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Re: getting excited!
#138584
26/06/2006 02:17
26/06/2006 02:17
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Fantastic news,.. very exciting Nigel,... any news when you think she'll be ready? joe
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Re: getting excited!
#138585
26/06/2006 03:11
26/06/2006 03:11
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367
Staffordshire
Nigel
OP
Forum veteran
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OP
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Posts: 17,367
Staffordshire
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If everything goes to plan (and it currently looks like its going to) the car will be back in my hands on Friday 7th July.
However, it'll be unmapped and in need of running in. I anticipate trying to get 1000 miles on it during the weekend and the following week, ready for an oil and filter change on Saturday 15th July. After that, it'll be another few hundred miles of running in, then a remap. Not sure whether to use PTS for (relative) convenience, or use the opportunity to put another 600 miles on it and travel all the way to Dastek in Edinburgh. Once its mapped, it should be ready for TOTB. Hoping for a reliable 340bhp, with 350 - 360 available if I turn up the boost. I can't see me wanting to run more than 1.5 bar, but if the weather is cool enough, I might chuck some octane booster in and use 1.6bar. I think that Stichl's 397bhp is beyond my reach due to me using the 0.64 turbine housing compared with his 0.86 (although Turbo Dynamics have a feeling that a flowed head through a standard manifold will increase the gas speed to the point where there might be little difference - just got to hope there isn't an issue with back pressure).
The temptation to up the boost and floor it is going to be soooooo hard to resist before I get it mapped.
![[Linked Image]](https://i.imgur.com/19K9lau.jpg)
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Re: getting excited!
#138586
26/06/2006 03:33
26/06/2006 03:33
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Nigel if you taking the trip up here (edinburgh way) then give myself and sparco and fergie a shout as we may "join" ya for a few jars to make the trip easier!!! Ross
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Re: getting excited!
#138587
26/06/2006 03:42
26/06/2006 03:42
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Sounds very good indeed, I think you have made a sound choice with the mods I do think the gt2871r is going to give you a more progressive boost delivery , than say a 0.64 gt28rs. This will enable you to modulate power for the drag strip launch easier (the 0.64 can be like a switch) and then the upper reaches will be very strong when traction should (hopefully) be fine. It will also be easier on the clutch Joe
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Re: getting excited!
#138591
07/07/2006 20:16
07/07/2006 20:16
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367
Staffordshire
Nigel
OP
Forum veteran
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OP
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367
Staffordshire
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Iceberg has now realised that its not a normal rebuild, which means it may be late Staurday or early Sunday before I get it back. Flea - I guess it'll be capable of 1.7 bar without a problem, although part of the idea of the rebuild was to have a monster Coupe at low boost (say 300 bhp @ 1 bar) If I can get 350+ I'll be chuffed, Barbz reckons even higher, but I'll have to wait and see. I've learned that the pistons and rods have been balanced to a tolerance of 1 gram
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Re: getting excited!
#138594
08/07/2006 03:30
08/07/2006 03:30
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
The car is booked in for a remap (probably including 16VT injectors) at PTS at 9:30am on Saturday 22nd July - anyone that wants to see me wear a groove in their carpet as I pace up and down is welcome to drop in.
oooo, I'm tempted, Will have done thurs nighshift, then dayshift in Ireland, then another nightshift bavk here in England (don't ask), so could be just a wee bit tired , but if I can summon the energy, might just pop along
joe
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Re: getting excited!
#138595
08/07/2006 03:42
08/07/2006 03:42
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367
Staffordshire
Nigel
OP
Forum veteran
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OP
Forum veteran
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367
Staffordshire
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Re: getting excited!
#138596
08/07/2006 08:37
08/07/2006 08:37
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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I know he's desperate to get his ramp back you ramp hogger  Bad news there though Nigel, i thought iceberg said the Fiat place he got his parts from was good and reliable! but i guess they are still fiat.
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Re: getting excited!
#138598
10/07/2006 03:53
10/07/2006 03:53
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Any news on this monster yet Nigel - or is Iceberg working into the night to get it finished? Did he get those big end shells? I can't wait to hear the first reports!
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Re: getting excited!
#138599
10/07/2006 04:01
10/07/2006 04:01
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Hey Nigel, when are you getting the new turbo properly mapped? Looking forward to see your results, I should get mine back wednesday with the 2871rs, and then is off to mapping...cant wait
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Re: getting excited!
#138601
10/07/2006 05:26
10/07/2006 05:26
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Good to hear it is nearly there Nigel.
Paul and John are total legends! Can you imagine ANY other company (in any trade) working straight through the whole weekend to get a job completed?! Well done guys.
James
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Re: getting excited!
#138602
10/07/2006 22:44
10/07/2006 22:44
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367
Staffordshire
Nigel
OP
Forum veteran
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OP
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367
Staffordshire
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Aaaaaaargh! it never even crossed my mind the inlet on the GT2871RS is 3", not 2.25" this means three things 1) The wonderful ProAlloy straight induction pipe won't fit 2) The standard induction pipe won't fit  3) I can't pick the car up until at least Wednesday  I'm in London tomorrow, and I'd even bought the train tickets to get me back to Birmingham instead of all the way to home. Ar$e! the suspense is killing me
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Re: getting excited!
#138603
10/07/2006 23:15
10/07/2006 23:15
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Nigel, Samco or SFS will sell you a silicone adaptor,.. Barbz or even PTS may have one! . SFS are only 50yds up the road from PTS. Isn't Luton on the London to Birmingham line  joe
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Re: getting excited!
#138605
10/07/2006 23:26
10/07/2006 23:26
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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So does ProAlloy, £45+VAT I believe.
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Re: getting excited!
#138606
11/07/2006 01:11
11/07/2006 01:11
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367
Staffordshire
Nigel
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Forum veteran
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OP
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367
Staffordshire
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its already ordered, but it won't be made and despatched until tomorrow I guess I should have checked another day of running in gone
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Re: getting excited!
#138607
11/07/2006 01:20
11/07/2006 01:20
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Cool - nice one Nigel. Are you sticking with the supersprint? 
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Re: getting excited!
#138608
12/07/2006 15:01
12/07/2006 15:01
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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So, my car is ready for picking up today at the mechanic, the GT2871rs was fitted yesterday, and he was making the induction side when I called. Today was down to fitting the walbro and then its ready Cant waittttttttt
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Re: getting excited!
#138609
13/07/2006 03:44
13/07/2006 03:44
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367
Staffordshire
Nigel
OP
Forum veteran
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OP
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367
Staffordshire
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AT LAST! Iceberg and John have been complete stars. I arrived at Motormech at about 5pm tonight, ready to pisk the car up. It wasn't quite finished, so I hung around. When Paul finally started the car up, it didn't sound very nice, with lumpy running and hunting for stable revs. We instantly put this down to the 16VT injectors. Paul hooked up his diagnostics to find it was ridiculously rich and the ECU couldn't cope. Paul removed the 16VT injectors and replaced them with my old 20VT items - now runs fine. So - some initial observations: Clutch is a bit grabby - I'll get used to it. However, Phoebe's tune springs to mind - "Smelly clutch, smelly clutch, what did they make you from....." Engine is smoooooth - probably feels good because it was a bit rough before, and also because I've just had to do 500+ miles in a rough 1.2 Clio. I've only taken it to 4,000rpm on the 30 mile trip home, with only a light throttle load. However, I decided to see what spoolup was going to be like. With the boost controller turned off (ie getting base boost only) Its giving me 0.25 bar at 2000rpm, and 0.7 bar well before 3,000. Once I'm aiming for 1.5 bar, I reckon I'll be seeing above 1 bar by 3,000. Bottom end seems nice and responsive, but again, after nearly two weeks in a small capacity normally aspirated car, the throttle feels a bit woolly. The remap will undoubtledy help get some response back. the straight induction is waaay quieter than having the Ramair on the standard induction pipes. I soooooo want to plant the throttle and get the car to sing, but I just have to wait until its all bedded in nicely. Boost controller is turned off and I'm just going to have to exercise superhuman self-restraint All promising so far So, I've
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Re: getting excited!
#138610
13/07/2006 03:52
13/07/2006 03:52
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Great news Nigel,... she lives!!! Are you able to say what clutch you went for in the end? Are you still going to map with the 16vt items ? joe
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Re: getting excited!
#138613
13/07/2006 04:32
13/07/2006 04:32
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Sounds like a good clutch, Barbz was suggesting these as a strong alternative to the GTA plate If mine gives up the ghost I might kill the piggy bank and do the same Now time,.. will seem like an eternity before you can floor her joe
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Re: getting excited!
#138614
13/07/2006 05:11
13/07/2006 05:11
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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YEY good news, i feel sorry for the guys as its taen them an age to do it but they have probably worked thier ass's off to get it ready in time I think i should go for the sticker sponsership option on my next bill! LOL Anyway good to hear about the spool up, still a bit behind what i have mind but we would have to compare side by side sometime Nigel, maybe when i pick my car up before your remap One thing i would say is get a tiny bit of old carpet or door matt and cut 2 small 10cmx10cm chunks out of it. glue them together and stick them on the backing plate that the loud pedal hits when floored. this should help you keep from straining the engine, i tend to move my standard floor matt over a bit for the same effect
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Re: getting excited!
#138615
13/07/2006 14:52
13/07/2006 14:52
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367
Staffordshire
Nigel
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Forum veteran
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OP
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367
Staffordshire
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Will - the loud pedal has an adjustable stop on the underside of the pedal.
So far i've managed to stay under 4,000rpm and I've hit 0.7 bar once, but stayed under 0.5 bar for the rest of the time.
The engine feels better this morning after another 50 miles - clearly its loosening up nicely.
Clutch also feels lots better, less juddering now its done a few miles in stop-start traffic.
I can now also feel the effct of the lightened flywheel - the engine is noticeably quicker to pick up from a dead throttle, especially when pulling away from a standstill.
On the couple of runs I've had from 2,000 up to 4,000 rpm, with about 0.5 bar showing, the engine feels silky smooth and very strong.
Can't wait....
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Re: getting excited!
#138616
13/07/2006 15:21
13/07/2006 15:21
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
the straight induction is waaay quieter than having the Ramair on the standard induction pipes.
Thats an interesting comment Nigel. One of the reasons, Ive held off on the straight induction is a fear of creating loads more noise, but looks like I need to get on and do it, especially now the Apexi intake has arrived.
I'm really hoping this will give me some spool up back.
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Re: getting excited!
#138617
13/07/2006 16:00
13/07/2006 16:00
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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I know nigel but it only goes so far The flywheel lightening sounds like another thing ill need to get done on my next clutch change as i dont reckon it will last another 2 years with my usage and locallity... The note about teh straight induction pipe is good as well
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Re: getting excited!
#138619
13/07/2006 23:59
13/07/2006 23:59
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Good to hear that you've got it back on the road Nigel. I'm not looking forward to the running in on mine either, as it is going to be so tempting to give the throttle a bit more than would be prudent ! But, will power will have to prevail . Phil
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Re: getting excited!
#138620
17/07/2006 04:07
17/07/2006 04:07
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367
Staffordshire
Nigel
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OP
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Staffordshire
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Things are getting better...
I'm up to about 300 miles since getting the car back - everything is loosening up nicely. The engine is clearly going to be nice and revvy, but there's definitley going to be some decent low down grunt as well.
I'm still running at base boost (1 bar actuator - shows about 0.8 bar at the gauges) and I still haven't gone above 4,500 rpm (apart from one brief excursion to 5,000 to overtake a couple of dawdling caravans)
The car is soooooo smooth (although I bet it turns out a bit more peaky when I turn the boost up)
The REALLY good news is that my very un-Nigel-like gamble with the turbo appears to have paid off. I can get 1/3 bar at about 2,000 rpm. By 3,000 I can get 0.8bar (which I'm sure would be higher if I turned up the boost). by 4,000rpm, its all pulling very strongly and at 4,500, the engine note goes very noticably harder as the cams start to have an effect.
I've only had one heart stopping moment - Friday, on the way home from work, the car suddenly started misfiring and cutting out, then surging up to 3,000rpm (with no throttle) and just general misbehaving.
I managed to get it home OK, and hooked up my code reader to see that the lambda sensor was fubar'd.
£45 for a sensor and £5 for a special socket and I'm away again.
Previously, my air / fuel ratio meter used to rise and fall every second or so, as the ECU hunted for stochiometric. Now its doing it about three or four times a second. I reckon my fuel consumption may end up being better, as the ECU was clearly staying too rich for too long, a theory which is borne out by the state of my pistons when Iceberg removed them. VERY clean underneath the inlet valves, but quite coked up for the rest of the crown.
Remap is booked for Saturday morning, at which point I'll know whether its all been worth it. I'm hoping for something like 300bhp @ 1bar, and 350 - 360ish peak at about 1.4 or 1.5 bar.
I'm concerned about mapping to very high boost figures, as I'm still on standard rods. I guess if PTS say its safe, I may go as high as 1.6 or 1.7, just for pub-talk bhp.
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Re: getting excited!
#138621
17/07/2006 04:14
17/07/2006 04:14
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 21,071
Chertsey in the Thames
bockers
Hon Club Member 007
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Hon Club Member 007
Forum Fossil
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 21,071
Chertsey in the Thames
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Nigel Interested in the Lambda sensor bit. I think these have a life of about 80k miles in a Coupé so maybe more of use should change them, as you say the over fueling does not help, especially on a modded engine. Bet you are so wanting to plant that right foot
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Re: getting excited!
#138624
17/07/2006 07:06
17/07/2006 07:06
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Its dead easy to do, though to be fair when i did my aircon compressor i cut the mounting plate part off the pipe to allow it some movement so it made things like the turbo replacements and such like easier and it doesnt even rattle like you would think, just stays in place and has nothing to really rub against as its metal to metal
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Re: getting excited!
#138625
17/07/2006 07:08
17/07/2006 07:08
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Good news on the engine though nigel, your turbo sounds very much like mine in the spool up stakes but i havent ventured past 1 bar boost yet im waiting for the LPG mapping for that to come into play, ill kindly be asking them to max the LPG injectors out and then pull it back as necessary to start off with to avoid anymore issues lol
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Re: getting excited!
#138626
18/07/2006 02:52
18/07/2006 02:52
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
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Good to hear nigel. I dunno about your claims about the spool up but i'm sure we'll see when you get it mapped.
Ross
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Re: getting excited!
#138627
18/07/2006 03:33
18/07/2006 03:33
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367
Staffordshire
Nigel
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Quote:
I dunno about your claims about the spool up
why
I tried it again on the way home tonight. Its giving 1/3 bar at 2,000rpm and 0.8 bar at 3,000. Two gauges can't both be lying, and I'm certainly not. I reckon when I up the boost, it'll be giving 1 bar or more by 3,000.
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Re: getting excited!
#138628
18/07/2006 03:40
18/07/2006 03:40
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Nigel, are the boost figures given while you were on full throttle or just partial? Before my car stalled tonight it was around 0.3 bar just below 3000RPM, but the boost controller was off, turning it on makes it much faster. This was with partial throttle though, and if i recall from driving with std turbo and controller off, its not much far behind actually
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Re: getting excited!
#138629
18/07/2006 03:57
18/07/2006 03:57
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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im not saying your lying nigel. All im saying is that i doubt it will be much faster with a higher end boost. The engine will still make boost the same speed but just go to a higher figure. However yogisdk is right. Partial or full throttle will make a difference.
Ross
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Re: getting excited!
#138631
18/07/2006 23:35
18/07/2006 23:35
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Yeh as i said we will find out!!!! But all the best. Im planning on comming down to TOTB to check it all out!!! Ross
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Re: getting excited!
#138632
21/07/2006 21:49
21/07/2006 21:49
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Its getting near Nigel!!!
time to turn the boost up!! and get that remap!!!, hope the weathers not too hot tomorrow
Joe
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Re: getting excited!
#138633
22/07/2006 04:12
22/07/2006 04:12
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367
Staffordshire
Nigel
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I've had my oil and filter change, so I turned the boost up to 1.2 bar today.
OH MY GOD!!!!!!
The car is demented. Its waaaay faster at 1.2 bar than it ever was before at 1.35bar. It absolutely flies round the rev counter.
And the noise - it growls from 4,000 to about 5,500, then it just howls. Its completely addictive.
It feels like the 7,000rpm limiter is going to be too low - the way it attacks the upper rev reaches is truly mad.
Spoolup is increased to about 3,200 when boost starts to rise. At 3,500 its boosting pretty hard, and by 4,000 the world is in reverse.
I'm Sooooooooo pleased - can't wait for the mapping session to see what its going to be like with some serious boost.
However, there was a bit of a mild panic beforehand.
On the way home from work on Thursday, I hit a serious size boulder. It was unavoidable, I simply had to choose which section of the car I wanted it to damage. I tried to get it through the section of the car with the greatest ground clearance, which I did, but even then, it wasn't enough.
It sounded like the bottom of the car was being ripped off!
It hit my lower subframe brace first. It now has a substantial dent in it, and was quite well bent.
Next was the subframe itself. A small scuff and very minor dent. It touched the brake pipes on the way through, but only managed to take off the underseal.
Next in line was a bend in the exhaust centre section - a dent about the area of a credit card, but about an inch deep - thus greatly restricting the cross-section area of the pipe. Finally, it managed three small dents in the backbox.
Iceberg straightened the brace with some brute force, but its going to have to be replaced eventually. He also saved the centre pipe by drilling a hole, levering the dent out with a pry bar, then welding the hole up again.
I suppose it could have been a lot worse. Wheels are untouched, brakes and bodywork are fine.
Anyway, I'll post up the results from the remap as soon as I can
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Re: getting excited!
#138634
22/07/2006 04:20
22/07/2006 04:20
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Sounds like its gonna fly Nigel.
Few years ago I managed to go over an exhaust that had fallen off someones car. Unfortunately i didn't have time or space to try and get it through the centre and it went under both nearside wheels - sure I got some air! No major damage but a slow puncture.
Anyway I digress. What sort of boost are you planning on running when its fully mapped? and when is the remap?
Chris
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Re: getting excited!
#138635
22/07/2006 04:32
22/07/2006 04:32
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Sounds like a lucky escape there Nigel, have you broken a mirror recently or something?? Your coop sounds like a monster once again, get some videos for us.
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Re: getting excited!
#138636
22/07/2006 04:40
22/07/2006 04:40
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367
Staffordshire
Nigel
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Quote:
get some videos for us
I'm sure a few people will have cameras at TOTB next week - I hope so, as I'd love to hear the car from the outside. I sounds gorgeous from the inside, so it should be even better from a fly-by.
Planning on running at least 1.5 bar, maybe as much as 1.7 - 1.8, depending on how well it fuels on the rollers. I have a set of 5 16VT injectors ready to go in, so the only limiting factor should be chargetemps.
Temps will be fairly high tomorrow, so I certainly won't see the maximum possible power - we'll have to wait until a rolling road shootout in winter for that.
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Re: getting excited!
#138637
22/07/2006 04:46
22/07/2006 04:46
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Excellent. 1.7 - 1.8 bar, thats insane. I can only imagine what that would feel like. So, the big question, is it laggy?
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Re: getting excited!
#138638
22/07/2006 04:48
22/07/2006 04:48
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Did you sell your chargecooler in the end then?
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Re: getting excited!
#138640
22/07/2006 05:31
22/07/2006 05:31
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Anonymous
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The spool-up sounds goood. I was planning on coming over, but I've just done 36 hrs on 3 hrs sleep and about to start another night shift , so think I will be fit for nothing in the morning..doh! By the sounds of it and driving Fleas car I think your spool up will be similar to a GT28rs. Joe
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Re: getting excited!
#138642
22/07/2006 19:24
22/07/2006 19:24
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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It sounds rubbish - have you considered getting an RX7 instead ? Is it being mapped for the full 100 bar today ?
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Re: getting excited!
#138643
22/07/2006 19:40
22/07/2006 19:40
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 554
Nottingham
Cyclone
Enjoying the ride
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Enjoying the ride
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Posts: 554
Nottingham
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Good Luck Nigel.
I reckon you'll hit 355-65 bhp at 1.5bar at approx 6300rpm and 325-35lb/ft at 5400rpm.
Jules.
Last edited by Cyclone; 22/07/2006 19:44.
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Re: getting excited!
#138644
22/07/2006 21:13
22/07/2006 21:13
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367
Staffordshire
Nigel
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Re: getting excited!
#138645
22/07/2006 21:16
22/07/2006 21:16
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Anonymous
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Re: getting excited!
#138647
22/07/2006 21:38
22/07/2006 21:38
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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ooof. ur gonna run 1.5? hmmm..... thats gonna be a biggy!!!
Ross
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Re: getting excited!
#138649
22/07/2006 22:17
22/07/2006 22:17
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Jayell..... if only.......
Ross
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Re: getting excited!
#138651
22/07/2006 22:40
22/07/2006 22:40
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Fraid not... its all down to luck!! Ross
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Re: getting excited!
#138652
22/07/2006 22:56
22/07/2006 22:56
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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C'mon Nigel whats the score?
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Re: getting excited!
#138653
22/07/2006 23:12
22/07/2006 23:12
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Anonymous
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Re: getting excited!
#138654
23/07/2006 00:40
23/07/2006 00:40
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Posts: 17,367
Staffordshire
Nigel
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OK - just got home - well knackered Excuses first - the ambient temps were about 30 degrees, and most runs started with chargetemps of about 40 degrees, and ended up at about 50 degrees. Autumn will see better figures. The best run was 394bhp, but in the end, Paul backed off the fuelling and we settled at 389. He was absolutely certain that a cooler day would have easily seen 400. Chuffed
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Re: getting excited!
#138655
23/07/2006 00:43
23/07/2006 00:43
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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What boost did you run in the end Nigel?! BTW Great Result! 
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Re: getting excited!
#138656
23/07/2006 00:59
23/07/2006 00:59
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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I told you, you'd easily see 380-390bhp Nigel, ,... well done Joe ps Nigel, now all you need to do is get Graham to knock off 20% fuelling off the start-up and idle maps, and you'd be laughing !
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Re: getting excited!
#138657
23/07/2006 01:16
23/07/2006 01:16
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Excellent result there Nigel . TOTB next week should be fun ! Phil
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Re: getting excited!
#138658
23/07/2006 01:56
23/07/2006 01:56
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Amazing result! That means it's now probably a lot faster than your old 355! (well, at least in a straight line). Very impressive
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Re: getting excited!
#138660
23/07/2006 02:17
23/07/2006 02:17
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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amazing! well done 400@1.5bar!Will conrods be up to the job? v.
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Re: getting excited!
#138661
23/07/2006 02:28
23/07/2006 02:28
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Quote:
I chickened out on the boost - the 394bhp was at "only" 1.5 bar
Whilst that is superb, don't even pretend you don't want to know what 1.8 bar would have pumped out
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Re: getting excited!
#138662
23/07/2006 02:37
23/07/2006 02:37
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Jeeeeez Nigel - that is very impressive!
I have got to see this in action - how about a mini-meet at my house sometime. Just pop in anytime!
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Re: getting excited!
#138664
23/07/2006 02:50
23/07/2006 02:50
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367
Staffordshire
Nigel
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I seriously thought about goung to 1.7 bar, but the ambient temp was so high in the dyno room that we decided to play it safe.
Maybe later in the year I'll go back for some higher-boost mapping.
I used the 16vt injectors - still managed to max them out at 6,000rpm
Spoolup is actually a little worse than before the mapping - It doesn't come on REALLY strong until nearly 4,000 rpm, but its still pulling harder before then than it used to with my old turbo.
Think about it - at 1.35 bar on the GT28R, I used to get 305bhp. Now I can get 319bhp at just 1 bar.
The only thing I've noticed is that it takes a couple of seconds on the starter motor to catch, whereas before, it would start within half a second or so. I can live with it, but its unexpected - it ticks over fine though, so there's no real problem.
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Re: getting excited!
#138665
23/07/2006 03:10
23/07/2006 03:10
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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So you've lost like 1000rpm + on spoolup..... Well done on the result tho. MEGA FIGURES!!!
How does it feel when the boost kicks in? is it brutal?
Ross
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Re: getting excited!
#138666
23/07/2006 03:47
23/07/2006 03:47
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Nigel
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It doesn't feel like I've lost anything on spoolup - here's why: GT28R used to give 1 bar by 3,000rpm and 1.35 bar by about 3,500. At this point, my power would have been say 250bhp Now, my GT2871R gives about 0.7 bar by 3,000 rpm, which probably still gives me 250bhp. However, the torque is higher, so it actually feels faster. Yes, the point at which the turbo can give full boost is probably now around the 3,500 - 3,700 mark, depending on gain settings. I've yet to work out what it's going to do on the road, as the rollers really don't put as much load on, so spoolup will often be a little later. As I mentioned a couple of days ago, under the right conditions, I can see 1 bar at 3,000 on the road. However, the way the car behaves after 4,000 is just insane. Its not peaky - it doesn't come in with a big kick - its just a constant surge. You know how a decent Coupe pulls at say 5,000 rpm in 3rd? Mine now pulls like that from 4,000 all the way to the rev limiter in 3rd 4th and 5th It honestly feels like the rate of acceleration is constant. Quite, quite mad, but very entertaining and totally addictive. I really can't wait until TOTB to see how it does - I think there may be problems with traction though
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Re: getting excited!
#138667
23/07/2006 04:35
23/07/2006 04:35
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Fcukin excellent mate, I'm well chuffed for you. How much torque you pumping out? P.S. Please don't let anything break before TOTB
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Re: getting excited!
#138668
23/07/2006 04:42
23/07/2006 04:42
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Nigel that is truly amazing results. I knew we'd be looking at a high figure, but in that temps and "only" 1.5 bar I didn't think you'd be just shy of 400bhp. Cracking stuff.
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Re: getting excited!
#138669
23/07/2006 05:03
23/07/2006 05:03
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Quote:
It doesn't feel like I've lost anything on spoolup - here's why:
GT28R used to give 1 bar by 3,000rpm and 1.35 bar by about 3,500. At this point, my power would have been say 250bhp
Now, my GT2871R gives about 0.7 bar by 3,000 rpm, which probably still gives me 250bhp. However, the torque is higher, so it actually feels faster.
Yes, the point at which the turbo can give full boost is probably now around the 3,500 - 3,700 mark, depending on gain settings.
I've yet to work out what it's going to do on the road, as the rollers really don't put as much load on, so spoolup will often be a little later. As I mentioned a couple of days ago, under the right conditions, I can see 1 bar at 3,000 on the road.
However, the way the car behaves after 4,000 is just insane. Its not peaky - it doesn't come in with a big kick - its just a constant surge.
You know how a decent Coupe pulls at say 5,000 rpm in 3rd? Mine now pulls like that from 4,000 all the way to the rev limiter in 3rd 4th and 5th It honestly feels like the rate of acceleration is constant.
Quite, quite mad, but very entertaining and totally addictive.
I really can't wait until TOTB to see how it does - I think there may be problems with traction though
Yeah suppose your right. Although, thats not just due to your turbo tho..... its the headwork u have done. Imagine if u didnt have it done.
Ross
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Re: getting excited!
#138670
23/07/2006 08:22
23/07/2006 08:22
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 548
Oxford
Sean_C
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CONGRATULATIONS Nigel !!!
Truly impressive results.
Enjoying Coop ownership, second time round . Also enjoying RWD action in a thundering V8 E90 M3.
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Re: getting excited!
#138671
23/07/2006 16:20
23/07/2006 16:20
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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When you get the boost doesn't equate to when the car 'gets going' though. This point is later with the gr28rs etc turbos. joe Want to see the dyno plots Want to see the dyno plots Want to see the dyno plots
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Re: getting excited!
#138672
23/07/2006 16:23
23/07/2006 16:23
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367
Staffordshire
Nigel
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Quote:
Want to see the dyno plots
Ah!
in my enthusiasm to leave PTS (I left at 4:15, to get to a family BBQ 120 miles away that started at 4pm - oops!) I didn't pick up my printouts.
Can you get the plots from Paul or Tony?
I'm perfectly happy for you to use them.
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Re: getting excited!
#138673
23/07/2006 17:00
23/07/2006 17:00
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Quote:
When you get the boost doesn't equate to when the car 'gets going' though.
Why is this Joe ? That's exactly what I find with my 28R - 1.2 bar by, say 3100 rpm, but its only from 3500 rpm onwards that it seems to do anything with it
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Re: getting excited!
#138674
23/07/2006 17:32
23/07/2006 17:32
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Nice one Nigel! I really wish I could justify doing this to my car!
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Re: getting excited!
#138675
23/07/2006 19:03
23/07/2006 19:03
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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No probs Nigel, will pop down tomorrow morning @ Jajell, I'm not sure why tbh, I think it is a function of the turbo though. My car runs 1 bar at 3000rpm but she also doesnt hit the torque curve till 3500 rpm. I do think weather plays a part with the air less dense when its hotter, I can even see this on dyno plots between hot and cold days. I can imagine that the wastegate is closed more with the gt28 etc turbos, and although you've got good boost, exhaust is being diverted via the turbo, so the engine is being 'restricted', not until 3500rpm+ does the wastegate open and aloow the car to breathe. A very well known high spec 20vt with head work also suffered from this ,great low down boost, but the car still didnt get going till 4000rpm despite what the boost needle was doing! Joe
Last edited by Doctorfrag; 23/07/2006 19:14.
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Re: getting excited!
#138678
23/07/2006 21:21
23/07/2006 21:21
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,405
Castle Combe
Flea
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Quote:
Surprised no one has said "nigel is now the most powerful 2.0 20vt coupe on the forum, without nitrous and 2.4"
Great result though nigel
Well nobody said it when I was the most powerful 2.0 20vt coupe on the forum, without nitrous and 2.4
Anyway, well done Nigel you have indeed which is what you set out to do
P.S. I've still got more torque at 334 lbs/ft and I got 322 bhp at 1 bar
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Re: getting excited!
#138679
23/07/2006 21:37
23/07/2006 21:37
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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good work there Nigel, am inpressed. I had also considered the same route as you ( albeit with a different turbo combo & tricks ) but since my bottom end is fubar, you only live once rip up the strip mate
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Re: getting excited!
#138681
24/07/2006 01:52
24/07/2006 01:52
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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good work nigel good to see it done 394bhp i bet its mental now , out of interest nigel whats the boost response like? just wondering how the car drives on part throttle are you you able to feed power in slowly or is it on off.
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Re: getting excited!
#138682
24/07/2006 03:13
24/07/2006 03:13
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367
Staffordshire
Nigel
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It drives just like it used to - nice and smooth on part throttle, easy round town, quite soft off boost (cams don't seem to have made any real difference here) It only goes mental when full (or near-full) throttle is used. I'm still struggling to get the boost settings right (or more accurately, the gain settings). I managed to cock up earlier today and got 1.67bar Far more impressive though, when I managed to get it to give me the boost I asked for (1.55bar) was the way that it was still givig 1.45 at the redline. I've been so used to the boost tailing off, that the experience of it still pulling VERY hard is just surreal. Also, the lightened pistons and matched rods, together with the lightened flywheel, means I've been finding the rev limiter rather a lot - including through Queensway tunnel in Birmingham - the other drivers must have thought there was a Harrier jump-jet coming through This is going to sound slightly dramatic, but on Top Gear tonight, I heard a car that sounds VERY similar. The Gallardo V10 has definite undertones of a Coupe engine at full chat If you hadn't guessed by now, I'm rather chuffed with it all.
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Re: getting excited!
#138683
24/07/2006 08:56
24/07/2006 08:56
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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That Gallardo did sound nice.
Mmmmm - cant wait to hear this Nigel.
I might be going to TOTB this year to have a look/listen at all the lovely cars - and especially your new beast.
James
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Re: getting excited!
#138684
24/07/2006 14:22
24/07/2006 14:22
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,158
Near Reading
JohnS
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I need some sleep
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Posts: 3,158
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congrats Nigel! Fantastic result !! I wouldn't worry about the spool-up on a dyno - that's just a symptom of a larger turbo requiring more load to spool it up, so the dyno will never give you a fair representation of spool-up unless its fully loaded up. I guess that leaves you a week to get used to it handling-wise for TOTB. How does it feel compared to your old Ferrari?
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Re: getting excited!
#138685
24/07/2006 16:32
24/07/2006 16:32
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367
Staffordshire
Nigel
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Quote:
How does it feel compared to your old Ferrari?
Is been 2 years since I sold the 355, so my memories have faded a bit. However, the best quarter I ever managed in the 355 was a 12.86 and in the Coupe, a 13.37, so the Coupe was pretty close a year ago. Given the launch advantage of RWD with mid-engined weight distribution, I reckon the Coupe was fairly close to the 355 from 30 - 130 anyway.
However, there's now no contest - the Coupe would pull away from a 355 in a straight line from a rolling start - I guarantee it. Stick a bend or two into the equation and it would all change around though.
Quote:
I guess that leaves you a week to get used to it handling-wise for TOTB
Hmmm - the car certainly behaves differently now - it'll be more difficult to use a lot of throttle in the corners as it'll just light up the inside wheel when it comes on boost. Additionally, the later spool-up could well slow me down.
Its a real shame the TOTB handling circuit isn't a lot bigger, as my car excels at very fast (130+) cornering. I guess if the circuit is anything like last year's, I probably won't get out of second gear. However, I don't suppose Adam McQueen's winning CRX turbo is particularly gutsy at the bottom end either, so it'll be the same for allof us.
Also, I have a dilemma - I was treating my tyres (the 16" on my stock rims) with rubber softener on Sunday and I noticed a nail in the shoulder of one of the rears. Its leaking a little bit of air and in the position its in, a repair is impossible. Do I run the sticky tyres on the handling circuit only, and maybe even the quarter? I don't fancy hitting 140+ mph on the top speed run on tyres with a nail in.
My plan for the day is a couple of top speed runs first while its relatively cool, then a couple of quarters, then the rest of the day attacking the handling circuit.
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Re: getting excited!
#138686
24/07/2006 16:40
24/07/2006 16:40
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Quote:
I noticed a nail in the shoulder of one of the rears. Its leaking a little bit of air and in the position its in, a repair is impossible. Do I run the sticky tyres on the handling circuit only, and maybe even the quarter? I don't fancy hitting 140+ mph on the top speed run on tyres with a nail in.
I have a spare you could use if you like Nigel. I have a pair of stock rims with 205 tyres that I use for sprinting. One has a Toyo on (with a nail in the shoulder!) and one has an Avon ZZ3 in very good nick.
Not the best of brands but could possibly be used for your high speed run.
James
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Re: getting excited!
#138687
24/07/2006 16:48
24/07/2006 16:48
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,158
Near Reading
JohnS
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I need some sleep
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Posts: 3,158
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As long as you're easily in boost rpm (5000rpm+) then the extra spoolup time/response time will not have much effect on the handling. From my experience with a similar amount of power it's just a case of being a lot more sensitive with the throttle and trying to keep it spooled up during the corners (which I'm not great at doing). The handling circuit is heavily biased towards 4WD cars IMHO. One other thing you may want to practice is gearchanges as larger turbos lose boost more quickly without load so the gearchange becomes more crucial for a good 1/4m time as does ensuring no wheelspinning before gearchanges. Anyway, I'll be there on Sunday cheering you on like loads of other people on the forum so best of luck!!! John
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Re: getting excited!
#138689
24/07/2006 19:15
24/07/2006 19:15
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Nigel, I've got your graphs now, just got to scan them, although I think they've posted the originals to you. I've also got Frag vs Nigel graphs as well, so peeps can compare the gt28rs to the gt2871r, might make interesting reading Joe
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Re: getting excited!
#138691
24/07/2006 19:43
24/07/2006 19:43
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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hehee when I got to Pts, I was told Paul was in the back of the workshop, when I got there Paul was giving the Dave the rundown on your car!! Your absolutely right, the gt28rs producing more low down torque and the gt2871r producing more higher up, in fact, they intersect about 5500rpm as you say, and are then like a mirror either side of this, gt28rs in favour of low down and gt2871t in favour of higher up. He did the runs in 4th and 'loaded' the rollers for about 9 seconds during the power run, so prob somewhere in between 3rd and 4th gears on the road to get an idea of spool up comparisons. I will be able to scan them later. Maybe Flea will care to host the picture? Joe
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Re: getting excited!
#138692
24/07/2006 20:02
24/07/2006 20:02
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367
Staffordshire
Nigel
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OP
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Posts: 17,367
Staffordshire
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Not a bad guess then I always suspected that going to the GT2871 would probably cost me a little in bottom end grunt, which is a bit of a shame, as low down torque makes a car feel like it has a much bigger engine, and makes for an easy fast drive. Confining the power to the top end makes for "interesting" progress, but is probably less easy to drive. I must admit, I saw a small supercharger on the bench at PTS and thought to myself that if it could provide say a bar of boost from 1,500rpm up to 3,000, then it might be a worthwhile mod. Where's that credit card
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Re: getting excited!
#138693
24/07/2006 20:07
24/07/2006 20:07
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Re: getting excited!
#138695
24/07/2006 22:32
24/07/2006 22:32
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
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Nigel, I've sent the graph to Flea, then we can have a look at the two power curves Joe
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Re: getting excited!
#138696
25/07/2006 01:23
25/07/2006 01:23
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,821
Bath
Fishy_Dave
I need some sleep
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I need some sleep
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,821
Bath
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Nigel, as an extra precaution, get yourself a can of puncture repair goo, and maybe put it in a day before your run to coat all inside surfaces. Just make sure you check your pressures after using it, as it continues to rise for some time  . I had a puncture before my sprint in April, and used the can to fix it. Worked well, and despite a 50mph limit, it went on to do over 5000 miles, a sprint, two trackdays in the UK and trip to the Nurburgring and two trackdays at Spa. Oh, and the usual advice about it being a nuisance when it comes to changing tyres didn't seem to apply, the insides of the tyre looked fine and clean once removed.
Corvette C6 (manual of course)
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Re: getting excited!
#138697
25/07/2006 01:49
25/07/2006 01:49
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367
Staffordshire
Nigel
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Forum veteran
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OP
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Posts: 17,367
Staffordshire
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Joe - just had my printouts from PTS They show the final run with 389.3bhp @ 6491rpm and 326 lb ft torque at a very high 6117 rpm biggest surprise though is the ambient temps at the time of the run. I knew it was hot in the dyno room, but the LOWEST temp measured was 40 degrees - the highest was 55 Also slightly unexpected was the power at the wheels - 327.7 bhp
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Re: getting excited!
#138700
25/07/2006 03:28
25/07/2006 03:28
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
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I've only got the one link, that's my torque curve compared to Nigels , sorry. I just took photos on the curves and superimposed them. Nigels got the bhp plot. I'll put the link up later on the tuning thread. calm down Guys Joe
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Re: getting excited!
#138703
25/07/2006 20:13
25/07/2006 20:13
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
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Nigel, was just looking at your graph Just to think of it by 4200rpm, you are developing the maximum power of a standard Coupe by 5000rpm, you are now producing power of a healthy tuned coupe at 300bhp , just starting to get into your stride! by 6000rpm, at 370bhp you are now starting to go beyond the most powerful 2 litre cars on the forum, (me and Flea ) At 6500rpm, all others are left behind....wooohoo!!! joe
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Re: getting excited!
#138704
25/07/2006 23:01
25/07/2006 23:01
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
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Quote:
OK - here's the power graph:
389bhp at 6491rpm at 1.5 bar
Where is the torque one? very smooth power graph u have there!!!
Ross
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Re: getting excited!
#138705
26/07/2006 00:04
26/07/2006 00:04
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Re: getting excited!
#138706
26/07/2006 00:34
26/07/2006 00:34
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
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Thanks fraggers. Ross
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