Then you will find yourself in this cycle.



That looks familiar doesn't it?

Why because there is litigation? How are Apple bullying people? From nothing to the major player in the phone market. Because they are the top they are the bad guys?

So Apple are stifling competition deliberately slowing down progress and using their monopoly (which they don't have...) to bully and control hardware partners. I don't see much of that going on?

Since Apple has got a foothold in the phone market, they have continually pushed and bent the carrier's and the industry towards the interest of consumers. Against the established phone providers and the telecom providers wishes. These long established phone providers had every opportunity to do the same.

Please fire away lets get this rolling.

If you can compare M$ of the 90's vs Apple of any period then I would say its back to factual drawing board. They do not bare much of a resemblance in corporate behaviour, ideology, environmental impact or social responsibility.

The main reason for a change in form factor was the emergence of capacitive screens over resistive, this meant that hardware keyboards could be dispensed with.

What I think is interesting is that the Google (android) phone originally was a rip off on Blackberry until the iPhone was announced.
It then changed form factor completely.

As for Samsung, they adopted a very clever strategy, thin back to 2007:

Nokia and RIM ignored the iPhone completely. (these were the two main players in the smartphone market).
Samsung (not a major player at the time) slavishly copied the iPhone (and iPad) and became a major player. In fact they have done rather well out of this, who even considered a Samsung phone before 2007? Their share of the Global phone market is now apparently worth $25 Billion.

As Microsoft (hardly apple's best friend), pays a licensing fee for the use of apple's patents then it was fairly obvious that these patents are legitimate.

Take a look at the photos on this page and see if you think the have shamelessly just copied apple http://www.tuaw.com/2011/09/28/no-comment-proof-that-samsung-shamelessly-copies-apple/

You'd have been waiting five years plus for that.

Correct about the value and the method Samsung used Charlie. They are not stupid, Nokia ignored Apple and thought they could go round them. RIM thought they were too popular and that Apple was bluffing about the phones capabilities (leaked documents showed RIM had a meeting the next day where they decided it was a fake)

That link is just the beginning. Its so wholesale its unbelievable really.

Which is why Android has the problems it has today. Google's recent Jelly Bean and current "Project Butter" are designed to mitigate the major issue Android has as much as possible.

Its architecturally flawed and needs to be started again from scratch. The reason you have the lag on Android is due to the fact it was never designed for a touch screen that was an add on. It was a copy of the market leader. RIM. They are so far in now they can't start again but they will do the best to bodge it.

This is no different to RIM, Windows and Symbian. None of them were developed for touch screens and suffered because of it. Microsoft started again, RIM botched and failed and Nokia stuck their head in the sand.

Of course android/google didn't rip off Java either http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2012/05/07/google-oracle-jury-reaches-impasse-on-key-issue/


A quote from Google:

“If Sun doesn’t want to work with us, we have two options: 1) Abandon our work … -or- 2) Do Java anyway and defend our decision, perhaps making enemies along the way,” Google senior vice president of mobile Andy Rubin reportedly emailed to co-founder Larry Page on Oct. 11, 2005.
Rubin then suggested to Page that the company pay Sun for a license to the technology -- an action Google never took. Subsequent emails appear to show various Google employees covering up the use of Java.
“How aggressive do we scrub the J word?,” former Google software engineer Dan Bornstein apparently wrote.


Seems that it's a bit of a habit.... http://www.oracle.com/us/corporate/features/opening-slides-1592541.pdf

In interesting timing. Motorola - Sorry I mean Google.

Google - Controlling Motorola have caved on their attempt to defend their infringement of Apple's patents by attacking Apple with extortionately high royalties on FRAND licenses.

Shucks. People might have to start innovating themselves???

Yes the Java theft. I wasn't going to bring that up as its not as main stream or understood as Samsung vs Apple.

We all know what Google are like behind the coy image.

Want someone to be ashamed of Bockers. Start at the Googleplex if you need to leave Redmond.

Sorry to butt into the Apple love-fest, but the company with the most wretched cuddly, plinky-plunky adverts for its pretty decent, but massively smug and over-priced products somehow seems to have failed to communicate how the nasty, horrid world (or at least all the "haters") has stitched up poor, resourceless Apple.

Coy image? Google? COY IMAGE? Really?

As you have now twice quoted my post, please take in what it says!

But surely you aren't attacking just apple for their "over-priced products" but the entire capitalist system? Apple has a fiduciary duty to it's shareholders to make the most profit. So if their prices were lower then all would be OK? That is what capitalism is, in a free market economy all products and service will attain their true value?

Apple convinced a jury (or are we attacking, not just the capitalist system but also the justice system?) that Samsung had infringed on their patents.

I am sorry Jim, but I fail to see the crux of your argument?

I believe that intellectual property deserves to be protected. If not then China will rule the world

Nokia did stick their head in the sand and reacted to late. A Shame as MeeGo is a fantastic touch interface 2 years to late

So they ditched that and went with windows7, and with that have sealed their demise.

Don't you mean Windows 8 and the Metro interface?

There is a train of thought that the court's decision's biggest benefactor will be Microsoft http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article36240.html

I don't hate Apple products but I do hate Apple logic, take apps.

The device is capable of doing something but in order to get it to work you have to buy an APP, and people seem to love this idea

One can only imagine how this would work with the icar... It would have wipers and lights but they only work if you were to go and buy the extra wiper and lights apps from the icar app store

Oh and you wouldn't be able to put any old washer fluid in. You would have to use special ifluid, and this could only be installed if you used the ifunnel

I had an iphone 2g and whilst it was quite cool and had some great touches the Nokia N95 worked so much better. The N95 had bluetooth that worked with ANY car kit and allowed easy file sharing. The battery lasted for days rather than hours and it did not need to be jail broken to get it to work properly

If I was to go back to an old phone, it would have to be the N95

Brilliant phone and loved it

Spot on.

The apps idea is surely just an extension of how computers have always been sold. You buy the computer and then the applications you need/want.
There were apps available for my Symbian smart phone (Motorola A1000).
Apple refined the idea and packaged it in a way that drove forward a new and easier way of obtaining apps.
Besides every other mobile operating system does the same, so it's hardly fair to criticise apple for something that the other makers do too.

Though I suppose if we take the analogy further.

Nokia sell the Nokia Escort though uninspiring it sells by the million


Blackberry announce their coupe and call it the calibra, it's good and a sales success.

Google annoynce a very similar car "platform", to the Blackberry.

Apple release the icoupe 20VT. To get more power there is the upgraded Turbo app, the non squealing brakes app, the FMIC app etc.

Nokia and Blackberry laugh at the new icoupe 20VT

Googles new car is made by Korean manufacturer Samsung and looks very similar to the icoupe, even down to the squeaking brakes. What happened to the Google car first announced? No one ever discovers.

The apple icoupe retains more residual value than the others though.

I am sure I could take this further but can't be bothered

Shame Motorola didn't patent the idea.

No please do join in Jim. The more the merrier! This is no Apple Love fest. you'll be hard pushed to find someone as harsh on Apple as me when they mess up.

Where do you see smug Jim?

Over priced? The iPad is anything but over priced. Are you referring to the iPhone?

Every product has to prove its worth no matter where it is from, price plays a big part in that. Premium price - premium product.

I have re read what you posted again. I don't see Apple bleating or issuing public statements crying about money. Do you? Apple but everything into entering the phone market, from nothing to where they are now. That was a huge risk, do you not think their IP should be protected?

If only that were true... Mazuma paid a lot more for my old N95 8gb than they offered for the old iphone 2g 8gb, and if you check today you still get twice as much for the old Nokia, £44 vs £22. When new the N95 was considerably cheaper to buy than the iphone too.

Correct. Nokia had a a lot of good stuff, but the idiots at the top didn't listen to the engineers. Nobody was able to turn it into a finished product. Too many incompatibilities and not enough drive coupled with bungling bosses.

Its the same bosses that have sealed Nokia's demise as you say.

I wouldn't sell phone through Mazuma anymore than I would sell a car to Webuyanycar

Check out prices on eBay as that may be a better guide.
Auction prices (ending soonest) iPhone 8GB (2g) £92 with 26 bids
Nokia N95 £45 10 bids

So you would prefer that Apple made all the applications? Instead the market is able to decide what is made and what is popular. So now I can watch Channel 5 or Channel 4 or iPlayer... Or control content on my PVR at home. Its not possible for one company to make all...

The people with the ideas should be making the applications, that is exactly what is happening. So you don't like paying 69 pence for an App? You preferred paying £15 for an app on Nokia / Windows Mobile that was never updated and very rarely worked correctly? Are you for real on this Bob?

Do you remember what the software market was like for mobile devices before the iPhone SDK? You had to have so much money to start developing and releasing your application. Never mind actually being able to find any applications...

Your reasoning on the car is flawed Bob. If you buy an app or download one for an iPhone. It will work on the next iPhone and the next and on your iPad. You are lucky to get one app to work on anything other than the device you bought it for from Nokia, MS or Google. Thats if you can get it to work on the original device.

I remember clear as day what it was like back then. I would never advocate going back to the dark ages.

Also it was not Apple's logic, it was developer demand that opened up the iPhone and created an SDK. Apple originally thought a web based platform would be enough. Not realising what could be accomplished.

Never owned one, I had given up with Nokia long before then. I do fondly remember some classic Nokia's though

At the time, they were the best phones you could get. Of all the companies they are the real shame. They could of been so much more if they had good management and focussed. Its not too late but I can't see them surviving now.

Patent the delivery of applications perhaps. But nobody bothered to do that before. No money in it.

Apple bothered to keep the platform secure, an invisible investment of a significant amount of money at a time when people were happy to load software manually and have their phone taken over by a virus.

Not too de-similar to the current Android method which bought down cell towers across the US when people data was stolen off their mobiles. But Google doesn't care as you are not their customer. You are their product, little incentive to fix the issue unless it hits the newspapers.

They never had an App Store, you had to find a shareware developer who was writing an app and then get it via them. There was no store.
I think in my 12 months with that I tracked down about 6 apps and they were dear too! I paid £15 for a RTS game on it.
It had a touch screen but used a stylus. It was good at the time but hardly groundbreaking

Supply and demand to affect here though Bob. Coupled with the companies you are using to work out the price.

From the information I have the Original N95 was $500 whereas the iPhone was $599 with 8GB. I cannot find the information but I believe the N95 needed extra memory adding? So not much in it. For two devices a world apart.

Then a few weeks later seeing the buying trend and popularity Apple drops the price by $200 and discontinues the 4GB model. Offering refunds or credit to people who bought at a higher price. So that is down to $400 non carrier subsidised.