I'm looking at taking my Coupe to North Weald drag racing event in Essex this weekend and a friend of mine is taking his 335D E90 BMW. I must admit his figures are worrying me a little, 290bhp and 450ft lb out of the box!!

My car has had a lot done, it's currently pushing circa 350bhp, will the Coupe give him a good run for his money? Also on the road acceleration, say 3rd on wards do you think I'd pull?

He's convinced his diesel is far better but I'm not so sure...

you will destory him on the road & strip look at power to weight he is 290bhp @ 1650kg you are 350bhp @ 1310kg. Forget the torque unless you are in the wrong gear.

Diesel's are not better than petrol for perfromance its been proven over and over.

Im sure he will enjoy the noise coming out your exhaust lol

I beg to differ - you're going to struggle to beat him.

RWD launch capability, 450 lb-ft and (probably) traction control is going to put you at an instant disadvantage.

It'll be close and IMHO, it'll be entirely down to how well you can launch the Coupe. Get a good launch and you might beat him. Get it wrong and you're toast....

yes launch will be important but RWD isnt amazing off the line either only a little better than a fwd setup if you have good tyres you will be fine.

on the road you wont have any problems.

My dc5 holds 335d's fairly easy.

The only concern would be if he has it mapped they then kick out 350bhp and 700+nm of torque and run 13.2's

when I had my 350bhp coupe the best 1/4 mile i got was 13.7 @109mph at crail, I couldnt launch the thing buts thats due to the crap surface.

I take it you will be doing this at the pod?

I'm with Nigel, it'll be close. More torque, a bigger engine and I'm guessing an auto box.

Here is the road test data.

http://www.insideline.com/bmw/3-series/2009/2009-bmw-335d-full-test.html

14.1 @ 99mph

not going to trouble a 350bhp coupe either on the strip or the road.

Its too heavy.

I dont know why people keep talking about torque ?

BHP is dervied from your torque and if the coupe can make more power with less torque then why mention it unless you plan to race in wrong gears.

People always mention the lack of torque to me in my DC5 but it revs higher to achieve the power.

As bhp is not actually measurable directly its a formula torque x RPM / 5252

I managed to get away from a 335i In my 292Bhp 20vt, and that was on a DC,

Im in favour of the Coupe, Naturally unless it was a remapped 335d,

Chrissy

This.

Going to have to agree that unless you know what your doing and have lots of experience launching high power front wheel drive cars on the quarter mile then it will be alot closer than the figures suggest on paper.
A rear drive car will always run a quicker quarter time than front wheel drive if all other factors are the same, the quickest drag cars aren't rwd for nothing.
I'm a lover of front wheel drive but sprinting is not its best forte...

Pete

Ask nigel about his launching technique and then practice! get some sticky front tyres, and If you have adj suspension it might be worth putting the fronts full soft and the rears full hard.
This will give you your best chance....but its all about getting it of the line (which is hard in a coupe)as others have suggested.

The quickest road 'cars' are 4wd...... over the 1/4

a drag car isnt exactly a normal car with huge wheels at the back and little at the front.

You go to any road car 1/4 mile event and 4wd will dominate the best times.

Rear wheel drive for a front engine rwd setup is not far off front engine fwd setup for launch.

Im sure H2yper from here ran a 13.2 in a 330bhp coupe with sticky tyres.

So many mixed views. I know it's not remapped at present but he plans on it at a later stage.

On the road surely even mapped 50mph onwards a 350bhp Coupe should kill it?

from 30mph dont listen to the rubbish posted!! on the road is where the coupe is best when rolling 30-130 even when its mapped is still going to be too heavy.

The car is frighteningly fast on the road when accelerating and I've owned a couple of these cars now! Flea mapped and a GT28RS it's unreal!

I can't see many things staying with it in honesty.

The difference in fwd over rwd might only be fractions of a second but its still a big factor.
You take two cars both weighing the same, both with the same power and torque curves and the same tyres and rwd will win if both drivers are equal, thats not internet bull, thats fact, weight transfer and the first 60ft is crucial because the gap gained there is amplified all the way down the quarter.
And have you forgotten about the TT Supra that totally dominated street legal drag racing for years?.
Im not saying that 4wd doesnt win but that weight transfer and sticky tyres means that on a well set up car 4wd isnt a massive advantage over the 1/4 over a good rwd set up once you take in extra weight and trans losses.
And 'Rubbish posted', isnt this a discussion forum where people give opinion rather than insults?.....

Yes this is correct however the cars dont have the same weight or power the coupe being rougly 300kg less with 60 more bhp. So you have kind of proved my point.

60ft is very important in the 1/4 mile as I found out against my friends classic sti with the 4wd he got a 12.9 @ 101mph with 1.8 to 60ft I got a 14.3 @ 103.4mph with a 2.4 to 60ft on the road my car has the edge.



The supra ran drag tyres at the rear and smaller at the front which again was setup directly for the strip with suspension mods to suit.

4wd will put in good 60ft times every time if the driver doesnt mind his clutch

Tranny loss on the 4wd is steep on your typical 50/50 splits however take the gtr for example it doesnt keep a 50/50 split it transfers more power to the front when it doesnt need the full 4wd thus reducing loss.

I may have been a little hastie to write the 'rubbish' comment I am sorry if anyone took offence to that one

Out of interest, I ran this through my calculator for a 20vT vs a RWD 20vT. I shifted the weight distrubution to 52/48 because it would be more representative of a RWD set-up and, if a RWD car was 68/32, it'd launch worse! Also worth considering, is that the transmission losses would be greater for a FR set-up but this isn't relevant in this example.

Fiat Coupé 20vT (68/32 weight distribution)
0-30mph: 2.53
0-40mph: 3.41
0-50mph: 4.78
0-60mph: 5.98
0-70mph: 7.85
0-80mph: 9.71
0-90mph: 11.83
0-100mph: 14.87
0-110mph: 18.11
0-120mph: 22.26
0-130mph: 28.63
0-140mph: 37.4
0-150mph: 59.31

60-100mph 8.89
60ft Time: 2.58
60ft Terminal: 30.5
330ft Time: 6.41
330ft Terminal: 63
1/8 Mile Time: 9.59
1/8 Mile Terminal: 79.4
1000ft Time: 12.21
1000ft Terminal: 91.6
1/4 Mile Time: 14.56
1/4 Mile Terminal: 99
0-400m Time: 14.51
0-400m Terminal: 98.8
1km Time: 26.19
1km Terminal: 126.4
3/4 Mile Time: 29.78
3/4 Mile Terminal: 131.6
1 Mile Time: 36.41
1 Mile Terminal: 139.1
2 Mile Time: 61
2 Mile Terminal: 150.3
0.75 Mile Time: 29.78
0.75 Terminal: 131.6
Top Speed (mph): 152.5


Fiat Coupé 20vT RWD (52/48)
0-30mph: 2.1
0-40mph: 2.88
0-50mph: 4.25
0-60mph: 5.46
0-70mph: 7.32
0-80mph: 9.18
0-90mph: 11.31
0-100mph: 14.34
0-110mph: 17.58
0-120mph: 21.73
0-130mph: 28.1
0-140mph: 36.87
0-150mph: 58.78
60-100mph 8.88
60ft Time: 2.36
60ft Terminal: 33.5
330ft Time: 6.04
330ft Terminal: 64
1/8 Mile Time: 9.18
1/8 Mile Terminal: 80
1000ft Time: 11.79
1000ft Terminal: 92
1/4 Mile Time: 14.14
1/4 Mile Terminal: 99.4
0-400m Time: 14.08
0-400m Terminal: 99.2
1km Time: 25.74
1km Terminal: 126.5
3/4 Mile Time: 29.32
3/4 Mile Terminal: 131.7
1 Mile Time: 35.95
1 Mile Terminal: 139.2
2 Mile Time: 60.53
2 Mile Terminal: 150.3
0.75 Mile Time: 29.32
0.75 Terminal: 131.7
Top Speed (mph): 152.5

My point was that the BMW even with less power and more weight would still be a close race possibly even win because it should in theory have a better launch than the fiat,
It will be easy to launch compared to the Coupe, traction control and more than likely a torque converter will cushion the initial hit to the tyres more so than the Coupe.
And knowing modern BMW turbo engine's either diseasal or petrol there figures are usually very very conservative so i would expect the power figures to be closer than stated perhaps.
And when i was talking about the old TT Supra i wasn't just refering to one particular car but in general, slicked up or not, they dominated street legal drag racing even though there was 4wd competition out there.
Yes there comes a point when a rwd car cannot put down its power without running drag slicks etc etc but its still more effective than rwd like for like.
Anyway proof is in the pudding, lets hope he doesnt get it mapped in the meantime!

Trappy please could you run the stats on the standard 335d vs the modified Coupe mentioned above?

Exactly Gunzi can you do that please

Torque Stats Calculator.....

Front wheel drive, 350BHP and 1310Kg's
Power to Weight: 272 bhp/ton
0-60: 4.9
0-100: 10.3
60-100: 5.4
1/4 Mile ET: 12.89
1/4 Mile Terminal: 113
Dragstrip 1/4 Mile ET: 12.60
Dragstrip 1/4 Mile Terminal: 115

BMW E90 335D figures from same site
BHP 282 @ 4400rpm
Torque (lbs/ft) 428 @ 2250rpm
BHP/Ton 173
0-60mph 5.7s
0-100mph 13.7s
60-100mph 8s
1/4 Mile 14.66s
Terminal Speed 97mph
Kilometre N/A
Top Speed (mph) 155
Nürburgring Lap Time N/A

Having had two high power coupes I would bet on the BMW, but then again I can't launch for shit.

BMW E90 335d (2006)
0-30mph: 2.2
0-40mph: 3.1
0-50mph: 4.2
0-60mph: 5.7
0-70mph: 7.2
0-80mph: 9.1
0-90mph: 11.2
0-100mph: 13.7
0-110mph: 17.1
0-120mph: 20.9
0-130mph: 25.4
0-140mph: 31.5
0-150mph: 40.3

Calculated 60ft (18.3m) (s): 2.43
Calculated 60ft (18.3m) (mph): 32.5
Calculated 330ft (100.6m) (s): 6.14
Calculated 330ft (100.6m) (mph): 62.9
Calculated 1/8 Mile (201.1) (s): 9.26
Calculated 1/8 Mile (201.1) (mph): 80.8
Calculated 1000ft (301.7m) (s): 11.83
Calculated 1000ft (301.7m) (mph): 92.5
Calculated 0-400m (s): 14.10
Calculated 0-400m (mph): 101.2
Calculated 0-1000m (s): 25.61
Calculated 0-1000m (mph): 130.3
Calculated 1/4 Mile (402.3m) (s): 14.15
Calculated 1/4 Mile (402.3m) (mph): 101.3
Calculated Mile (1609.2m) (s): 35.41
Calculated Mile (1609.2m) (mph): 144.4

342bhp Coop
0-30mph: 2.53
0-40mph: 3.4
0-50mph: 4.57
0-60mph: 5.45
0-70mph: 6.46
0-80mph: 8.05
0-90mph: 9.46
0-100mph: 11.14
0-110mph: 13.47
0-120mph: 15.82
0-130mph: 18.82
0-140mph: 22.99
0-150mph: 28.03
0-160mph: 36.52
0-170mph: 66.05

60ft Time: 2.58
60ft Terminal: 30.5
330ft Time: 6.28
330ft Terminal: 68.3
1/8 Mile Time: 9.19
1/8 Mile Terminal: 88.2
1000ft Time: 11.54
1000ft Terminal: 102.1
1/4 Mile Time: 13.66
1/4 Mile Terminal: 110.9
0-400m Time: 13.61
0-400m Terminal: 110.7
1km Time: 24.03
1km Terminal: 142.4
3/4 Mile Time: 27.2
3/4 Mile Terminal: 148.6
1 Mile Time: 33.08
1 Mile Terminal: 156.8
2 Mile Time: 55
2 Mile Terminal: 168.4
0.75 Mile Time: 27.21
0.75 Terminal: 148.7
Top Speed (mph): 171.2

About 100bhp per ton more for the coupe this really is a no brainer.

Thanks Trappy.

It looks like a no brainer "on paper", but as others have said the reality is the Coupe is going to be harder to launch than the 335D. If Alex gets the launch and the gear changes right then the Coupe should win it, but get either of those wrong and it'll be all over in a cloud of diesel smoke.

Good luck!

The same goes for the bmw driver he has to launch perfect etc. Any car could beat another if one of the drivers makes a total balls up.

The coupe in question driven correctly will easily win on the 1/4 mile and destroy the beemer on the road.

With a map on the bmw I would still favour the coupe on the road when rolling.

This was my (and most others) point. From memory all 335Ds are autos, negating the gearchange factor.

Ok so if he does beat me on the strip due to poor launch or whatever at least I can say well on the road you've got no hope lol!

My money is on the Coupe.. I think you will reel him back in even with a poor start. Unless you leave your gearbox on the start line of course

I`ve raced vs my friend`s 330xi sedan (256hp) when my coop was at 1bar boost (around 220hp). we started from 60km/h and I`ve won both times. so coop with more power will win for sure

How did it go Alex?