I've been running 3 cars for a while now. A diesel passat for the MRS to ferry the kids around in, an 08 reg fiesta tdci for the daily commute and the 20vt once, maybe twice a week for my 60 mile commute.

I got to thinking this week, why not chop the fiesta in against an Alfa GT or 159 diesel and then I have something a bit different to drive every day. This would come at the expense of selling the Coupe also.

I'd love to run the Coupe every day to work, but it costs me about £70-80 a week. The Fiesta costs me £30-£35. I'm thinking a diesel alfa might come somewhere in the middle on economy and excitement. I'd be looking at Alfas between 6 and 8k.

Thoughts anyone?

Sounds like a good idea to me, I'm not going to talk you out of it, I think 159s are lovely, and well within your budget. Happy hunting

Also, I say the following:

BAM!

Last year my 2008 Brera spent 8 weeks at the garage; that's 2 months.
It was beautiful though.

crikey what took 8 weeks to fix?

I looked at one the same spec as that today, only with red leather. They offered me shite money for the fiesta though.

Gearbox bearings, master cylinder, slave cylinder, clutch. gearbox rebuild (not all at the same time).
Include, disputes, ups, staff sickness, disputes, ups....

Had it covered loads of miles?

People seem to have nothing but praise for them, or nothing but bad luck. Seems to be no middle ground at all.

48K, 40K in 2 years so not really.
When it worked it was great and sitting in it was sublime.

Which engine was in it?

2.4 JTDM.

I think that is a lot of car for the money personally....

Bloody hell I am tempted...

I really like them. My passat is good and does everything it's meant to do, really well, but it doesn't blow my skirt up.

I've always had Italian motorcycles and cars. Fiat haven't made anything I'd buy in the last ten years so alfa seems the obvious choice. However if I'm no longer going to have a third car, whatever I buy must be reliable.

I know exactly what you mean.

Its been many years since Fiat made anything I would part money with for. Which is a statement as I love Fiat. The 500 being an exception but then its not quick enough imo.

The 500 is an exception, looks great and is probably one of the coolest cars on the road.... If you're a girl.

I can't imagine any bloke driving one and not looking ridiculous.

Having had a Brera 1750 Ti I'd not go for it again. Suspension is torture. Although the handling is VERY very good with the Ti package. I presume for slightly more comfort you just skip the Ti pack. Although the one-piece sports seats they fit as standard since 2010 is something we definitely class as torture, having barely survived a trip to Italy.

Now have a 159 Ti. Incredible damping, you can have a lot of fun in it while still keeping the passengers happy. And very good seats. Dull 1.9 Diesel 150bhp engine. 2.4 5-pot should solve quite some of that.

Have heard this also, think because the 159 is so much heavier than the 156/147 plus 159 has a particulate filter sapping more fun. I know in my 156 Ti the engine is a peach especially when remapped

The 2.4jtdm takes a bit of a beating on the Alfa forums due to its consumption being miles away from what it should be, 1.9 with a remap seems to be the one to go for in the 159, which is a shame - I've the 2.4 and can't fault it as a big lazy diesel.

The 1.9 JTDm 159 sounds like a cab I loved mine for the looks - I had a Sportwagon with all the trimmings but even that could not prevent me from selling - for the engine note alone after a couple of years........ The 159 is a bigger car than the 156 and feels it. My 156 was definately more fun to drive. If you could afford it the later 159 1750 TBi would be the one to go for....

Get a GT JTD,theres lots out there! Cracking red 07 plate 40k on clock leather etc going around 4/5000 on e/bay just now,bids at 3600 reserve not met though,owner needing quick sale. I bought a petrol,love the driving and looks,miss performance and could do with bit more economy but you cant have everything. 159 lovely looking big car.Brera stunning,gorgeous ,love it. You got a 20vt and your worrying about reliability????? Lol,good luck
Oh yeh and I have a white Fiat 500 and love nipping around town in it. But I do look kinda effeminate at the best of times!!!!! Item number:
e/bay item no. 280807520772 its ended but not sold,highest bid 4100.

Bro has bought a cheap 159 jtd 1.9.

Brought it down to bristol 5 up on the last outing. Went well and good on fuel plus love to looks on the 159.
With a remap im sure it would be alot more fun. Certainly fair more dull diesels around.

How powerful are the 159 2.4's?

200bhp & 210 on the 2008 onwards models, quite easily tuneable to 260bhp & gallons of torque when mapped & the DPF has been removed.

159s are a bit heavy ...
My bro has the Brera 2.2 and as mike says since its been decatted, dpf removed and remapped the thing flies... over 400 lbs of Torque!!! Also even with all that it still passes emissions! Fun car... Not practical at all if you need the back two seats.

Boot on the otherhand is very good

I'm not keen on the back end on Breras really. What's the actual economy like on the 2.4?

o really? I love the back end of the brera.. all down to personal taste.

Im pretty sure my brother gets around the high 30s... i will ask him and get back to you

Cheers Mike,

Thought it was circa 200. Oh yes had many an early tuned JTD, really nice to drive.

Not a bad wagon really for that sort of cash.

So after the dpf was removed (improves mpg massively)
30mpg on town driving
50mpg on motorway

Sounds about right. Used to get 45-55 MPG through the old JTD's so the JTDM should be an improvement.

I can live with that.

I think it'd have to be the 2.4, the 1.9 would just frustrate me. Love the looks of the gt but they didn't seem to do the 2.4 lump in it.

Big mistake on Alfa's part IMO. The 2.4 is a great motor. I'd have probably gone for a 2.4 GT rather than the MiTo if they'd done one.

MIght be worth a read of this...

http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa-159-...onsumption.html

the 1.9 is less weight and more flexible than the 2.4. Doesn't eat it's driveshafts, easier and cheaper to service, better part availability, sump doesn't get smashed on speedhumps etc...

But then I would say that wouldn't I?

I've got the 1.9 MJET 150bhp in the Bravo - same engine as the Alfa - and I'm getting better than 50 commuting. Got an EGR valve problem at the moment which could be bringing it down, as it's been higher in the past.

On the other hand, I bought it for a mile muncher because my commute is so far that I needed the economy, so I'm generally driving at but not over the limit.

On the gripping hand, a trip to Berlin and back over the new year still saw mid-forties including cruising at 100mph+ for several hours.

Apparently the newer jtdm in real terms are not as economical as the earlier counterparts and driving a 159 and doblo vs our earlier stilo jtd feels as if its got less low down torque aswell.


But it is far more refined than earlier 1.9s which are slightly tankesque but uttertly reliable..We recently got 610miles from a tank in the stilo.

I often wondered why Alfa didn't do the 2.4 in the GT as well.

Exactly coupe dummy the old JTD's felt like a tank, as reliable as one as well though!

Hmm I'll read the link, but am drawn to the 2.4 of course

Because it wouldn't fit. At least not without R&D kept at decent cost, low enough investments in the production line, matching different gearbox,...

How come, the Gt is the same chassis as the 156 ?? not doubting am just curious.

its much closer to the 147 rather than the 156

Yes, it is basically a 147, but with a GT body.

I thought the 147 was basically a shortened 156, with the same front suspension setup, subframe etc, so the differences won't be too massive.

The 1.9 is a decent enough engine for a Diesel though. It just doesn't sound very nice.

All related yes Simon, but lots of 147 and GT parts are interchangeable, lots of 156 ones are not.

It irks me on AO that they're all in together!

Interesting that the cheapest place I've been able to locate an EGR valve is a Saab supplier - same part for Fiat/Alfa/GM/Saab, it seems. Must have been part of the technology transfer.

There is an easy fix for someone as competent on the spanners as yourself, Neil.

Simply unbolt the EGR, drill a small hole in the top plastic part to allow access with a pin punch, punch out the solenoid gubbins and get to work with some brake cleaner on all of it. Assembly, as they say, is the reverse of removal. I had to do it to the GT I had with that engine.

The servo is servoing, Adam, but it seems the springs in the valves get tired.

I'm really torn on what to do with this, I really love the look of the 159 and gt but can't help thinking I'd miss owning a Coupe.

I've had coupes on and off for the last 5 years, mostly on, and can fix most problems that come up with them and have tons of spares. If I buy an alfa I'm pretty much at the mercy of a garage if anything goes wrong. Plus whilst the fiesta doesn't blow my skirt up, it's nice enough to drive and turns in 60-70mpg on my commute.

Then I think, coupes are getting old now and sooner or later the tin worm is going to win.

Ah, fair enough. It was coked up on mine hindering the movement of the valve and felt like a kangaroo surge at low speeds.

I don't know how much a new EGR is, but it might have been worth a shot for a few mills of brake cleaner, WD40 and an hour of your time.

EDIT: Alternatively, if you have some thin sheet you could always blank it off. They're a PITA and not really necessary.

Going to look at a GT Q2 tomorrow at a really good price, may be able to afford to keep the coupe if I go for that one.

Already been through the cleaning route, Adam. You can't blank it off on the Euro4 engines; the ECU checks flow and complains, and I'm not keen on sorting a new map unless I can see all the code... there's a new one in the post, so we'll see what that does!

You will!




Excellent, look forward to seeing the photos of your GT

My advice would be don't give up your Fiat Coupe. I traded my 20VT 6 for a 159 2.4 TI last June and have missed the coop ever since. It's driving me round the bend thinking about what do about this!

I got the 159 remapped by Alfatune in St Helen's who are rated as the best at doing this in the country and it shows. The 159 now has somewhere in the region of 260bhp+ and 400Ibs of torque. A rough 60-100mph timing by me came in at 8-9 seconds!!! This was holding it at 60 then flooring it so quick and impressive for a car weighing nearly 1600KG. I think it might actually do 160mph flat out now. Dare I say it could possibly be slightly quicker than a standard 20VT!

It really doesn't feel as quick as the speedo indicates though. It's so refined and the turbo is always boosting around 0.8 bar if not more (tops out at 1.4 bar). The torque curve is flat so there's no kick like you get in the Coop. The kick and 5 pot petrol engine note are what I miss most I think.

The diesel 5 pot sounds OK at low revs (below 3K) after that it sounds harsh. The 159 is a great car though. The ride and handling are very impressive for such a large car. It also has 4 pot Brembo's with 330mm front rotors so stopping power is good. The gadget list is almost endless. Dual zone climate, electric memory heated seats, USB socket, light and rain sensors, 19inch alloys, twin exhausts, 2 computers. It's returning 40mpg on my 11 mile dual carriage way commute but can manage 45mpg on longer runs.

I look almost daily at the classfieds for Fiat Coupes though and still don't know what my plan is! Sell the Alfa or keep it and have a coop as 2nd car. Could barely afford to do it but I miss what has been my favourite car in 22 years of driving.

Is it the springs really Neil? Or are they starting to get clogged up or oxidising and this limiting the spring movement?

Anyway, we're having the 159 chipped at Squadra Tuning and they'll be blocking the ERG as well and removing the checking code.

Kayjey will you be getting the dpf removed as well? This seems to help improve mpg from what I've read.

Nah, KJ, been through it and cleaned it out but the fault was back the next day...

Been to look at the gt today, not perfect but very very nice and offered me a very good deal.

The ride was surprisingly firm which I liked.

Going to sleep on it I think.

Link Please!

Link here http://www.jct28.net/used-cars/alfa-romeo-gt-mansfield-201146428650974

It's a done deal

Very nice Joe,really suits those alloys in the silver!!! Good Health!!

She's a beauty Joe, fantastic looking car!

Yeah quite happy with it, a few jobs to do but nothing major. I was very surprised how well it cornered. The alloys were only on that model, and only 91 of them made it to the UK. Nice to have something a bit different.

Now, how to perssuade the mrs that we should keep the Coupe.....

Q2 alloys aren't that rare

Just going on what I've read, maybe I'm wrong.

They suit the silver nicely though , what silver is that?

Excellent stuff joe, well done

First dibs on the Bose system when you break it

Joe Iv got the Bose system in mine,I know there expensive but I dont notice that much of a difference.Maybe Im not working it properly lol!

I had a play with it on the test drive, and didn't think anything special but then I know sod all about stereos.

Not as good as the 8 track I had in my Humber Sceptre lol

Picking the GT up next Saturday, won't be ready until then as they're sorting a few of the niggles out for me. Should give me time to work on the Mrs bout the coupe.

Well it didn't quite go according to plan. The dealer couldn't find the history when I went to look at it the other week, but rang me later that day to say he'd found it and it had had the clutch and belts done. I turned up today and looked through the history and couldn't see ant evidence of either, so he rang the place who did the clutch for him and had them fax over a copy of the invoice - fair enough. Then he rang the garage who'd done every service on it since new and asked them (on loud speaker so I could hear) when the belts were done. The answer came 'in march 2010 at 87k miles'. The car only has 76k on the speedo now! The dealer read the reg number out to the guy on the phone and had him check it several times, but it seems the bloody thing has been clocked. Needless to say I walked away. Oh well

That was close, well done for being so diligent. Question everything.

I'm bloody glad I did.

Gutted the car wasn't what it seemed Joe, but yes, well done for making sure you did more checks.

Make him a lower offer, you obviously like the car, why let a a digital number change that?

If the car's been clocked, surely you would have to wonder what else the seller has tried to hide.

It crossed my mind to make a lower offer but as jimbob said, you have to wonder what else they've done. Also, I'd sell it on at some point and couldn't possibly lie about the mileage.

Anything in the history for replacement instrument panel?

Fair point, I didn't see anything but ought to have asked the question. Even if it had it's hard to see how it'd work out though. When I realised and went through the history checking the service intervals, it'd only had one owner who'd done 20k a year every year, but then since 2010 only 11k in 2 years.

It seems not impossible that the original garage misread either the speedo or the paperwork, or the paperwork's author wrote it incorrectly... 67k in early 2010 seems more in keeping with previous records.

Indeed it does, so sod that I'm going nowhere near it.

I wonder should I report it to DVLA or trading standards? Anyone know the correct course of action? I don't like the thought of someone else trading in a perfectly good car, or parting with their hard earned cash to find it's not what it seems. I'd definatley like to prevent this car from being sold as something it's not.

Barnacle is saying that it was in fact done at 67k and not 87k which is quite possible, mistaking the 6 for an 8.
*If* it has been clocked, why would they do it? probably to increase the asking price.
Worst case scenario then. Car has been clocked and has around 90k real miles. Make the dealer an offer for a car with that mileage.
As he knows you're serious about buying the car (with a screwed up history) he will be pretty keen to offload it I should imagine. Try and squeeze a warranty out of him too for peace of mind.
You might get a bargain!

Ah I see, I'll have a think on that one.

Yeah, sorry Joe, perhaps I wasn't clear. Jas is right; my thinking was that perhaps it's the number on the belt-change service that's wrong, not everything else.

not sure on the alfa system but clocks on a lot of cars will usually default to the higher mileage, meaning if you put in clocks with a lower mileage they would read the previous mileage stored by the electronic module, sounds like human error to me, surely the old mot certificates are a sure fire way to determine mileage.

There weren't any old MOT certificates with it, which only added to my suspicion.

It's the same everywhere though, people will 'lose' the bad stuff quite easily. As I say, look at the car with your eyes and what you know has been done, then offer the appropriate price.

Most 2nd hand cars will have SOMETHING to hide, I bought from a well known dealer and there were still some surprises!...

Like my Bravo, which came with no service history and 35k miles, four odd tyres and *brand* new discs and pads all round (and two locking bolts well overtightened)... It's possible they did the belts at the same time - though the cam isn't due till 150,000 km (!) - as they were clean and shiny, too.

In the ten thousand miles and three months I've had it, it's used exactly no oil and one EGR valve.

Ilooked on line for the mot mileage records, and they do seem to tie in with the figures being mixed up.

I think you did the right thing in walking away, it sounds as dodgy as hell.

I am sure there are far better examples around.

Joe, I bet your heads in a spin now, all this conflicting advice!

It really is. Going to ring the alfa dealer who's done all it's services since new tomorrow and write it all down to see if I can make reasonable sense of it, or if it convinces me it is dodgy.

I traced all it's service history back and it's definately been clocked. It wasn't just one service that didn't add up but one dealer had had it in on three separate occasions in 2010 and the mileage recorded by them every time was higher than the mileage the car is currently showing.

On the upside, I've found another one today. A bit more money but never mind http://www.carshop.co.uk/used-car/ALFA%20ROMEO/GT/MF57GAU

says sold

looks like an alright one at my local :

http://alfaromeopalmers.co.uk/vehicle-de...VP-car6508.html

It is

Nice one Joe! Lovely motor Lets hope there's no nasty surprises with this one.

I'll be checking everything on this one too, just goes to show you can't be too careful.

Well done Joe, it looks very nice

That's more like it.

Very nice.

How are you enjoying it so far?

Nice choice

I've had it a week now and it's very nice. I do miss the coupe, but she sold to a forum member and I know it'll be looked after.

The alfa handles brilliantly, like it's on rails and the Q2 diff means you can get the power down really early coming out of bends.

Economy isn't fantastic though.

my advice if not already done, then get a remap. I have a cheap tuning box on my 150 jtd and it revs so freely and holds power so much better up to the red line. A remap is on the cards but I currently estimate power to be around 175bhp

Looks nice I just picked up a Brera to replace my coop and I must admit it's blOOdy luverly Doesn't have the sort of raw edge that the coop has but the drivers seat is a very nice place to be. Handling and ride is great too.

Way ahead of you

Angel tuning seem to have a good reputation for this.

What engine is in your Brera & what's the economy like?

Don't tell Shabba but it's the four cylinder 2.2 petrol engine. I've only had it a couple of days but economy is reported at about 25 mpg urban and 30 mpg combined. It's a very refined drive. Bit of grunt when you floor it but it will cruise around all day at normal roadspeeds

See you on the other side....

... Could have had an Alfa 145 with a Coupe's heart... makes for a very nice car.

(I LOVE! Brera's)

The gt is off to Alfatune in St Helens on Saturday for map check and remap.

Very happy with the remap by Gus today, now running a surprising 210bhp. It's truly a different car to the one I dropped off this morning.

Listen. Can you pm me details of how you find Alfatune. I live about 1/2 a mile away and have done for 25 years. Spoke to Gus the other week and he told me where his place was. But can I find it?

Lol at Chris

Glad you're happy with the car Joe

There's no sign up saying Alfatune, but he's more or less opposite a plant hire place. On the corner of Lock street.

Thanks Joe - it's quite funny this

google maps - my house to Alfatune

I've lived here 30 years and never seen the place. I can't see Alan Sugar ever putting him in charge of marketing

Maybe you just don't get out much, Chris.