I’m a frequent reader but, a very rare poster. What’s got me to post now is I have owned my current 20VT for 11 years and I feel it’s time to move on, however I just took a 911 tiptronic for a test drive and it was far slower than my mildly tuned coupe.

Does anyone know if there is anything out there that is as reliable, fast, does 25 mpg, seats 2 adults and two teenagers and costs less than £20k.

We also own a Fiat Sedici which is brilliant off-road and in the winter but, is a little small for days out with the family. I’m starting to think I should keep the coupe and buy a big luxury car for the family and work.

What do you guys think I should do?

M3?

Fast and brilliant handling, but almost as predictable as a 911 Carrera

Really? An M3 I always thought a basic 911 was faster?

M3 is not as predictable as a 911. They are very tail happy especially in the wet. Modern 911 are very grippy both wet and dry.
I don't like the tiptronic though. Manual was far nicer unless you are talking pdk which is super smooth and fast!!!!!!!

reality check, a 911 tiptronic is not 'far slower' than a mildly tuned fiat coupe

assuming we are talking about a 997 the minimum it has is 340bhp with the 3.6l engine or 380bhp with the 3.8l and only weighs about 100kg more than the coupe therefore it is not possible it is slower than your coupe

even the 996 with the 3.4l engine has 300bhp

Keep the Coupe.

Simple as that.

There are so many Porsches and BMW's on the road, they no longer have any prestige or rarity about them.

How many Coupe's do you ever see on the road? Mostly, none.

My two cents anyway.

I agree.

doug20vt,
It was a 3.4 996 triptronic and it was far slower than my coupe and if I'm honest, I was sadly dissapointed. I wanted to be blown away by the Porsche but, I just wasn't. I had my 12 year old son in the back and even he wasn't impressed. I plan to try a manual 3.6 in the next week and will let you know.

Shinyshoes and JKD,

I'm starting to agree with you.

I'd hazard a guess that it's the power delivery which has underwhelmed you. The Coupe gives a whizz bang of torque and you're on full boost at ~2.7k rpm, where as the N/A builds torque and power as the revs rise.

I drove a friends E36 M3 Evo a few years ago and it "felt" slower than my GTEC'd coupe, despite having the best part of 70bhp, but a weight deficit of ~100kgs more. If we were in a side by side drag race the Evo would have easily won. It's the power / torque deliver of the Coupe which makes it feel brutal in it's acceleration.

Perhaps you could consider a turbo car to match/beat the Coupes torque at lower revs? Such as an Evo IV / X, Jag XKR, Monaro VXR, or Audi S4 (N/A but with a V8). That said not all of them would match your required 25mpg...

Or be different and treat the Coupe to an upgrade!

you have owned your coupe for 11 years

spend the same amount on sorting your coupe to be faster, handle better and give the body work some loving. Thats what id do.

Agree the guys above Toquesnuff....... And we've have a Sedici for the family runs - big enough for the four of us - Good under-rated cars.

Totally irresponsible option, but just look at them from £10k you can get a Maserati 3200!!!!!!!!! On my want list.....

I had a pair of these on loan for a month and I never managed more than 20mpg, occasionally dipping into single figures

However, I'd still have a 3200GT Assetto Corsa....

^^^^I also want a Mazza 3200...seen a few going for 8k. Probably not as practical though, and as Nigel says, very thirsty

I totally agree. I test drove a 996 porsche tiptronic last year, it was black, had the full GT3 kit and looked amazing however it felt slow to drive and not very exciting and the brakes felt dead. My thought at the time was if I was going to spend 15K I wanted the car to blow me away and the porsche was a disappointment. My coupe was 360bhp at the time and getting back into it was night and day different. That brought me onto my other choice a vx220 turbo. I went and saw a stage 2 black vxt and it was a summers evening, the guy had the roof off and it was sensationally quick and exciting....so I bought it.

My Black vx in action

Just did an evening trackday last week and it was mega I love it.

Now for a big family car I would miss out the M3 and go for the V10 M5, I love the look of them and the V10 must sound mega.

That's just the thing though, once you've driven a turbo car, no n/a car can quite cut it afterwards. Unless you spend a hell of a lot of money, and even then it's not as much fun.

Before I had the Coupe, my mate said to me, "Once you've owned a turbo car, you'll never want anything else again". And I believe him!

Totally agree mate. My friend said the same to me, he had a Vauxhall VXR. I totally understand now.

Back on topic,
M3
M3 CSL
Audi S4
Mitsi Evo ?

Alfa Romeo GTA's are plenty quick enough esp. the 147.

Granted you can't just up the boost and gain horsepower but they are absolutely brutal, have you driven one?

I've always secretly wanted a 147 GTA! Also love the interior and the way it's styled. Then my sister bought the 2.0 twin spark and I found the driving position and general feel of the car horrible!!

I had a Civic Type R at the time and there was just no comparison.

I haven't driven the GTA, but I'm sure it's a lot of fun.

Well I had the same thought as yourself, I kept the coupe for weekend car ( why because they are very rare and this car always get great looks) anyways I bought a Mitsubishi evo VII and wow they are amazing cars, it's a must on your test drive list...

They are any they are different to standard 147's. Comparing a standard 147 with a CTR isn't quite the same.

The V6 is a peach (if thirsty) of an engine. My 147 GTA if far easier to drive that my Coupe and the sound is .

Some good ideas here, thanks for the help.

I love the 3/4200's they even have good sized rear seats for my kids but, they are so unreliable. A friend had a 3200 and he was godfather to his mechanics kids by the end of the first year of owning it.

The last time I thought about a new fast car, in 2003, I went to take a Mondial for a test drive and it broke down before we left the garage forecourt.

My coupe has been incredibly reliable and only blew the engine and turbo once (my fault, I held it in third too long). I’ve only done 25k with the new engine which was polished??? and given a few extra tweaks and a bigger turbo. Had it to 167mph, on the sat-nav, in Germany and it still had more to give but, the nose was getting very light so I slowed to a cruising 150mph. Just love Germany.

I never thought I’d hear my wife say this but, she also thinks I should keep the coupe, as it’s worth more to me than any trade-in and I should look at buying an old luxury car. I quite like this idea and have seen a nice low mileage CLS that’s fully loaded or maybe a big Audi/BMW.

Lancia Thema 8.32

so just midly tweaked then lol, have you had the car on a rolling road to see what it is making

lancia thema 8.32, interesting car although would be horrendously expensive to run and get parts for

how about a supercharged 4.2l jag coupe, that wouldn't feel slow

Jag S-type R is worth a look.

Doug20vt,

I would love to try a rolling road but we don't get many chances of getting to go on one "oup North" I'm in Northumberland and the nearest towns are Edinburgh and Newcastle.

If I keep the coupe which is looking more and more likely. I'd like to upgrade the suspension, currently running on Bilstiens and ebachs, and look at the cooling system as it can run a little hot in the summer if thrashed. It also might benefit from a boost gage as it idles on 2.8bar and sits somewhare above 3bar when running, any tips on what I could do and where I could take it?

Hyperlink,

I like the Jags but, feel I'd be turning into my Dad if I bought one.

Loved Lancia's since I was a kid but, I want reliability.

My mate has EXACT model 996 tiptronic 3.4 in a very similar colour to ink black.. My old coupe used to just PIP it with a gtec and a std exhaust system. The coupe was 239 bhp on the rollers. It didn't easily win though.

I had 911's in the past. Different power deliver. My last one (when I had money) was a 996 turbo (450bhp) when it was the current model. I had dms tweak it to 520bhp. Now that was fast!!!!!
996 turbos have dropped in price now quite a bit.

You'll have to get a 911 GT2

can't believe you beat it with just 239 bhp??
when i had 270 bhp, i only just got the better of a boxster s..... That was from 30mph+
so i find it very hard to believe you pipped it with just a g tech?? He must have had Rick waller passanger!!

Nick

That'll be the oil pressure, no relation with boost. 2.8 bar is extremely healthy. It SHOULD be 3+ while driving above 2000rpm. Will actually be in the region of 5-6.

Thanks KayJay,

I should have had a fullstop in there instead of "as".

'It also might benefit from a boost gage. It idles on 2.8bar and sits somewhare above 3bar when running, any tips on what I could do and where I could take it?'

Ori 911 turbo 996 different kettle of fish! Jamies 911 feels sooo slow inside its because I was expecting more because of the badge.

Yep gtec ONLY it wasn't v quick at all he was suprised by the coupe also. This is an old porsche 911 remember! I'm not making it up why would I my current stage 3 coupe would wipe the floor with it so I'm not bragging about how fast my old coupe was! You may not believe but that 239 bhp coupe ran a 13.9 at santapod so it wasn't slow. The old 996 911 carrera 2s also would probably be slower than the newer boxter S's. A current 911 carrera 2s would eat a 239 bhp coupe for breakfast obviously.

The porsche definitely won't break down as much and I'm starting to think coupes are a bit flimsy and going off them so I'm not making things up to big up the coupe for sure.

That 911 is 2wd and it is stupidly dangerous in the damp he has bent the rear wheel on a curb doing 20mph on a roundabout not long ago.

Oh and the interior is so out of date and boring in that model also.

Please watch your comments, as I don't want this turning into a V's thread or it will be deleted - thanks (You've been warned)!

Alpiiiinnnnaaaa B3S

But they guzzle gas - my brother gets about 17mpg out of his around town - no worse than an M3 though I guess but far less common

If you want diesel, D3 is no slouch either apparently

Or this is quite swift with an unlimited top speed of 194mph, obviously highly useful in the UK where the speed limit is 70

http://pistonheads.com/sales/2473884.htm

Or if you want a family wagon, you are somewhat unlikely ever to see another of these on the road (my brother has one of only 15 'normal' B3s)

http://pistonheads.com/sales/3066470.htm

Oh I love it how half the thread has been talking about a coupe being quicker in a race than a 911 and asoon as I chip in its a vs thread. That will be all on that matter now.

Hang on Theresa,

This is just what my original question was! What is there out there that has 2 useable rear seats, is as quick as a 300bhp coupe, costs as little to run and returns 25mpg?

I said I had tried a 911 3.4 tiptronic and was disappointed. I want and value the opinions of my fellow coupe drivers. I have had some very helpful suggestions from members on this post and am coming to the conclusion that a tuned coupe is probably one of the most undervalued cars on the road today, even 10 years after they stopped making them. I’m not sure Kayjay was right to switch this to other cars as we are talking about how inferior other cars are to our beloved coupe. Every time I think about switching I get drawn back. I can’t see any other car that can shame the coupe without spending many 10’s of thousands of pounds and isn’t that what this wonderful forum, that Kayjay created, is all about.

I have no problem with your questions or posts, just want to warn people that I don't want it turning into a V's/racing thread, which is how these threads start heading and BoostMeCoupeUp's post was touching on it slightly.

Hiya, legit questions all the way. Although some people could take this as a trigger to start posting about public-road-racing (which is what we mean by 'vs' threads) - which is not allowed on here after a few 'issues'.

Oh - and anyone that is a moderator / admin on here can move posts. You blamin' me? Could have been me. Could've been someone else.



Ever though about how your post might have had nothing to do with her decision to post her (well-placed) reminder? The fact that Theresa's post appears right after yours doesn't mean it's your post that triggered her reaction, it just means she posted after you. As you might notice from her activity, Theresa doesn't arrive home from work until really late. Then she goes into FCC uk mode and starts her volunteering work as a moderator - board member. So I'll repeat - for different reasons: please watch your comments.

No I didn't notice her posting patterns and I have no problem with her post about the rules I just thought the whole post was on this topic! I am not in anyway suggesting that she was out of order I did think that the vs thread wasn't mentioned untill I posted though and it was very on topic of the post.

Kayjay come on its all fun don't take it too seriously as a board member you have more power on the forum than under your bonnet.

The original 996 C2 (3.4) was incredibly quick when Autocar road-tested it at launch; 0-100 in under 11 seconds.

Jim

This is true, I've even seen 911 owners on their forums question that data... It's still a 296bhp, 1320kg car though and with a rear engined, rear wheel driven launch, I don't see why it wouldn't be this quick. Remember it's got transmission losses like a FWD car as no prop shaft to lose power down... I assume?

They got similar figures in another comparison piece (think it was against an M Coupe) and again when the 3.6 was released.

Jim

Only read the first post, but a £20k sports car will reward in DOZENS of way's in which the coupe won't, yes the coupe is good bang for bucks, but the handling is NOT that good, the brakes are also from 10 years+ ago (obv as they are). Interior rattles, gearbox is terribly sloppy etc etc.

My Z4 feels slow compared to my old 20vt, even though it's just as quick really (5.7 0-60mph) but the Z4 wipes the floor with it in so many other respects, handling, braking, grip, roof down = fun at any speed, interior is v nice place to be, stero is far better, more toys, looks more modern, etc etc.

If you just want straight line speed then buy something and tune it.

you can get a mk2 focus rs for that cash,PERFECT all rounder

Apart from the image...

i prefer a big capacity n/a to a small capacity turbo any day of the week and my m3 was more fun than my 20vt but i will echo the feeling slower bit even though the speedo told a massively different story

for a chav

chav image?dont personally know any chavs with 20 plus grand to spend on a properly sorted car with all the right bits to make it a very fast road car whilst also being sensible enough to use every day,but hey,maybe i look at the potential a car has rather than worry about an image,if i did that i wouldnt have a fiat coupe.

I say chav because it looks like someone has taken a Ford focus,read a copy of Max power and.gone to halfords,then found the most shouty colour they can.how can you compare the coupe which looks sexy to a tarted up hatchback?

It's alright discussing all these the other cars. The important thing here is that because this is FCCUK a 220bhp FWD 1300kg Coupé is quite clearly faster than a 300bhp RWD 1300kg 911.

I mean, what can you do? Clearly only a Veyron will do to replace the Coupé. Lets hope that in 10 years time they reached the £1k price mark too.

ive said it before,ill say it again,i dont think the coupe is especially good looking at all,in fact its downright ugly from some angles,looks like someone tried to take a nice looking design but due to the constaints of a Tipos dimensions,they had to squash it,to me the focus looks purposefull,and to a lot of people the coupe is ugly (a lot of 7th gen coupe owners have commented)but to me its all about the whole car,not a perceived image.and the coupe IS a tarted up hatchback lol.anyway,back to the original question,how about a bmw 330d or 335d with a remap?

I agree, I prefer the look of a Focus RS any day over the Coupe.

On looks alone, the Coupe will fail. It's the whole package including performance that does it for me.

I would like to add the WRX STI 03-05 (the best ) to the fold . Great all rounder and you would have plenty of money to (Tastefully! mod it). P.s don't call me a chav because chavs can't afford a proper one unless they stole it from the LDN area in recent day's...

Best of both worlds, possibly?

Fast barge

Duffman,
good car.BUT....fuel economy!!!!subarus are NOT renowned for being frugal lol

I guess this isn't a case of your right, or your wrong.
IMO the coupe can look rough from some angles, but most angles it looks great. One of the best things is the road presence it has. When you see a coupe driving up behind you in the rear view mirror, or driving by on the road, they look amazing! That to me is the WHOLE car looking great, not just a part of it from a particular angle.
How is the Coupe a tarted up hatchback too?? haha!

The focus is a focus, i'm sure the car is fine if not less exciting, the looks are fine IMO, and from some close up angles looks smart! But as a car, when i see one on the road or coming up in the rear view mirror, it's just not the same.

Anyway, just some harmless points of view I have more to say but i won't

Back on topic...

Some kind of Lotus mabye? Wait for the Evora to come down in price?

Tell me about it lol. Ok at motoway or being gentle with the pedal but on real boost make sure that there is a petrol tanker following you. You can see 30 ish if your lucky

Chav is NOT always about money.

Look at El Hadj Dioufs Merc SLR, nice car, ruined by its mirror finish custom paint/wrap job. Or putting huge wheels bling on it etc.

Focus RS = CHAVmaster5000, I don't care how good it is, it's image stinks. Depends if that bothers you, but I personally don't want to drive rond in some bright green hatchback with huge grills & spoilers, I want an enjyable driving experience yes but I always want to look at the car and appreciate it's looks.

This is such a blinkered thread re the coupe and it's amazingness.

I'm with you on the spoilers and grills. But only in the view that the car was not designed with that in mind. Like the spoiler on the scooby is fitted for purpose and the intake. Whereas on chav cars most never intended to have a spoiler or massive intake or huge exhaust and it serves little purpose other than looking strange.

Not defending the RS but it does have most features from the rally design apart from the mad colours. It's only when the base design is then altered evenmore makes it chav in my view. Not that I'd ever get one anyway.

These conversations always get me. The coupe is a nice enough car for its age and price. Pacey, roomy, rarer than a 911 or a z4 or a focus RS. It does turn heads, people don't always know what they are.
To replace it with anything is easy, if you want to keep the spirit but improve on the driving experience then there are many options from Lotus, TVR and Porsche that are much faster. You can buy much faster saloons now, even a big Vaux VXR is quicker in everyway in the real world, more usable more reliable BUT all these things cost lots and lots at the dealers. These cars have to be plugged in to be serviced, to have the car retract calliper pistons to replace pads, to replace head light bulbs on a 1 series. The next generation of affordable used sports cars won't exist because no one will want to run or maintain them - 20 inch rims with £200 a corner tyres, headlight bulbs at £100, LED brake bulbs for £60 from Mercedes? Each to their own, if you love your coupe you will big it up, if you had one and believe your BMW or Porsche is better for you then it is. That's why you own one and not a coupe. Blinkered views are driven by enthusiasm and love for your pride and joy - be that an ageing Italian GT a Morris minor or a Ford RS.

Ok, let’s put it this way. I would never be seen dead in a car with a giant (Penis extension) spoiler. A coupe spoiler is tasteful; a Porsche Turbo spoiler is simply football. I may not have a lot of money but, I'm looking for a car with a little class.

I would love a Scooby/Evo if they weren't so tacky. I’m afraid I’m old school, I like cars like Maserati, Aston Martin, Bristol, Alvis, Frazer Nash, Noble, early TVR, Lamborghini Muira and not cars like Lamborghini Contach, Ferrari later than 1990, bling cars, the last TVR’s or anything else equally flashy. This is probably why we all like Coupes; they are fast understated cheap supercars.

Ok, I think I’m going to wait another 10 years and then look at changing motors.

Typo corrected .

I'd have a manual Porker tomorrow. Unfortunately I can only afford to own and run a Coupe. Simple economics in my case.

For the record, my bros 911, which is the slowest of the 3.6 litre 996's (a boggo carrera 4) is way quicker than a standard coupe, I'd say you'd need about 300 bhp AND to be perfectly on boost to compete. Its such a strong lump, it just feels like its 'big lunged', its hard to describe - it has pace to spare at all time, has excellent torque from about 2000 all the way through to 7000 rpm and is quite capable of doing a consistent 33 mpg at 80 mph, proven over 300 miles back from Le Mans.

Unlike smaller turbocharged 4 wheel drive cars that are hard to launch without ruining a half shaft, with the porker you can just feed out the clutch at 2000 rpm and you're off, no bogging down and no hesitation.

They'll go on for 200,000 miles , and you can pick up a good one with 80k on the clock for about 16k now - in fact I know of one for sale... I wouldn't bother with a 3.4 tiptronic, but do drive a manual 3.6, it'll totally change your mind if you give it a chance over some give and take roads. For the record, the carrera 4 was about 4-5 car lengths ahead after a 40-140 rollon with a mates e46 m3, both 2 up.

There, I corrected that for you.

i concur

Am not a chav and i own a green rs

paul.

Leave the kids at home, or get a boot rack... Lotus Elise with a supercharged Honda unit... Clicky This DOES make a 911 look slow, in fact it makes EVERYTHING look slow, worth clicking on part 2 aswell.

Otherwise, as already mentioned, BMW M3 or Mazza. For the classic approach, not to everyone's taste but... Fezza Mondial? Not overly quick by today's standards, but just how often do you NEED the power? I know, I know.
Liking the Lancia Thema 8.32 suggestion too!
How do the Alfa GTA's stack up against a Coupe?
The "R" series Jags are good value and fit the bill, as would a good Cerbera.
Bentley Turbo R, quick in a civilized way! Stay off the turbo to keep the MPG within the requirements though...

4 seats you say? High performance you say?

Well 0-60mph it's quicker than a coupe, the grip/handling/braking is in a different league and it has more power too (the 3.0 anyway). I've only ever seen one female driving one and I doubt she was a hairdresser, not many of them can afford almost £1k for a set of tyres etc.

Another ridiculopus comment in a ridiculous thread

Not saying the Z4 is the most manly car in the world but it's not as hairdressery (new word) as a MGF or other such convertible.

Focus RS = great to drive, CHAV to look at, depends if that bothers you I guess. There would be alot of other cars I'd buy ahead of it.

The thing that is happening here by people posting overly positive comments on the coupe is becuase they have not had exposure of actually driving other decent cars, and I mean properly driving, i.e fast as the driver and not passenger. Coupe is great for £1k, but it is a 15 year old car now, it is unbeatable for the money but very much beatable for more money, especially £25k! But of course in 3rd gear on the right road in the right conditions it's amazing which glosses over everything else.

Shabba is right...the comparisons are between 2 entirely different "generation" cars.

I love my Coupe, but if i could afford more, i'd buy a Mazza 3200 or 4200, mabye some other good looking sports car in the 10 to 20k region.

The thing is, i would also keep my Coupe...not because it is better, but because it offers something completely unique that nothing else would give me. I'd miss it basically!

You're absolutely right Dan. I do think people miss this point quite a lot when making Coupe comparisons.

Sure, the Coupe offers a LOT of bang for very little buck. It's quick, it's stylish, it's cheap (while it's running!).

But, for example, go and drive a 10+ year old Focus, then drive a new one. Substitute any "regular" car you like; Astra GTE vs Astra VXR? I could go on for ever....there's a massive gulf in capabilities between a 15-year old design and anything coming out of a car factory today.

The Coupe has a market and a niche because it's so unusual. But there are, I'm sorry to say, shedloads of modern cars out there which, in terms of pure performance and also in terms of the driving experience, would absolutely run rings around it (assuming we're talking about a fairly standard example).

Coupe Blinkers were mentioned further up the thread, and sadly I think this is true. Go and test drive a modern mid-range car, of just about any description, then jump back in your Coupe, and you'll find that the difference is night & day.

I love my Coupe, and I'm in the lucky position of being able to keep it without it being my daily drive, and every time I get into it it puts a big grin on my face, but ultimately, despite mine being such a fantastic example, it is NOT better than modeern tackle, not if you consider it dispassionately, and if you're ready to move on, be prepared to be very surprised at what you can buy for relatively modest money these days.

This is silly you cannot pick up a half deacent coupe for 1k im sure if you bought a burnt out z4 it would be 1k also.

Obviously a 25k car will be newer and tighter than a 12 year old coupe, the point is bang for buck.

My view z4 3.0 isnt faster than a coupe even a std one apart from 0-60 as the rwd will help launch but it still would be close.
Yeah it may handle better but with all the change left from walking away from an over priced z4 you could easily sort the handling and in the rain good luck in your z4.
A hairdressers car for sure although my coupe actually got called a hairdressers car by a pissed up bloke outside a resturaunt the other day. Obviously not a clue about cars.

Coupes are old they do break but they are fun and have passion.
Not just yet another z4 on the road and unless its the top model (z4m) dont go on about hairdressers not being able to afford z4's as tyres cost 1k because you didn't buy the top model yourself if you were a real drivers man only the best a car can be would do, didn't know this forum had snobs in it either i have a bmw i have a bmw great so does half of leicester on finance they sell more 3 series than mondeos now.



My view on a focus RS yes its loud and it is for sure a bit chavvy but at doing the shopping then if you fancy a broad blast its great, and its quick in a straight line to not just round corners. You can be a rich chav look at Jordan money doesn't mean not a chav.

AGAIN another totally missed point....

A Z4 may be £8k+ for a nice example BUT it's asset value, i.e will not loose huge amounts in a year, obv a coupe will loose barely anything, but compared to buying a newer car it is still a good buy. FACT, my Z4 has cost me less to own than my coupe did.

My mate bought an E46 (£11k) M3 6 months ago, sold for the same price, cost him 1 litre of oil and that was it, so the 'with all the change' argument is sometimes null/void' if you buy wiseley. beats shelling money on repairs into an old car that you'll never see again.

Also I sold my coupe 2 years ago for £1300, was running ok, 100k or something, and is still going now as I saw it on the road the other week. But fine lets re-phrase it to '£1500' coupe then.

Also as for 'good luck in the rain', bring it on, the Z has grip the coupe can only dream of and would be quicker in ANY conditions (except snow!), also it has traction control which will give the less experinced driver another edge in wet conditions.

ALSO as for 'spending the change on suspension', good luck with that, the Z is far from the last word in handling but it was deisnged 10 years after the coupe, as a sports car, from a company that has always made good drivers cars, and costing almost twice then price..........so it's chassis/setup is far superior as you would expect. Yes 'eibachs' and whatever make a difference, I had them on my coupe, but trust me it is a world away from a modern car as stated above. At least the Z drives the correct wheels and has 50/50 weight distribution etc.

So in summary as said above too by some others, couype is good for £1k, but PLENTY of better cars when you start spending alot more money. Also as I say that extra money doesnt even have to be wasted money if you buy wiseley.

Nigels coupe won the fWd handling competition at ten if the best in 2009 so they can be made deacent thats for sure..
Obviously it wouldnt have got close to rwd or 4wd pace but to beat all fwd cars at a competition like that shows coupe has some handing ability.
I agree a std coupes handling is poor and rides like its on stilts oh but compaired to a std vxr astras handling its good they are a bag of crap though.

1500 not enough for a deacent coupe no way unless you get very lucky.

Clarkson did say the z4's ride is his words 'unacceptable'
I think thats down to the run flats though.

On the newer design point.

I hired a Kia Rio 1 the other weekend. No remote central locking, not even central locking (I kid you not), wind-down windows, nasty plastic interior, weak engine, the works.

I expected the ride to be awful. But you know what, it wasn't. Now I'm sure my coupe would go round a corner faster, but when I came round a 90 degree motorway slip way bend doing 50mph, three up it was surprisingly composed. Although I did not rag the thing to the edge of what it would take it was surprisingly nice to drive handling wise. And that, unfortunately, comes from a comitted and long term coupe driver. I have no doubt that a relatively modern sports car would totally monster a standard coupe in the handling leagues and I doubt a pair of aftermarket springs would change much.

A) Nigels coupe is FAR from standard.
B) 'FWD handling contest', is that just a timed thing? I.e something that has NOTHING to do with feedback/feel/fun?

Yes the ride in the Z is fairly bad, traimlines and pretty firm but yes alot of that is due to the run-flats, and to be honest I don't even notice the ride half the time, is no worse than some other sporty cars I've been in. Again also not saying the Z4 is the last word in handling excellence, but it is a modern car and built ground-up to be a sports car, if you really want to talk lap times then it was quicker round the TG track than the more powerfull boxster, however having driving a boxster I'd say the Porsche is definitley the better drivers car.

Can we just close this thread now! Mark as 'stupid post'. A 911 for everyone except the original poster, is a far better proposition than a Fiat Coupe.

I'd concur... or even a 335i. The M3 lacks torque IMO.

My boss to me for a spin in his 997 (3.8). It's obviously lovely, but it does have that very linear normally aspirated delivery. It's also very quiet in the cabin and doesn't make as much fuss when getting a move on.

That's the deceptive part. It may not feel that fast but when you look at the speedo, you'd probably be surprised.

The question is, do you want a car that's faster on the road than your coupe, or do you want one that feels faster?

I wouldn't say that. I love the look of the coop, but have never liked the 911.

I'm sure the Porsche is better in any measurable way, but that still wouldn't make me buy one.

AGAIN, DRIVE THEM. A high power TDI is fine......but it is not 'FUN' to drive, the power delivery is not fun as they don't rev nicely like a petrol, just not as fun to drive, more novelty value with the crazy torgue and nice for cruising along but not 10/10 hard driving.

The 911 will have a lovely throttle response, alot can be said for this and it's only something you notice when you are actually driving.

But you'd rather have a decent 911 over a coupe all things being equal.

Got to agree, the Carrera's do nothing for me looks wise. The turbos and GT's do but they are over 25k.

But I would still have a 911 over a coupe.

Would I? What other things would have to be equal? If I liked 911s and coupes equally then, yes, given a straight choice I'd go with the 911, but I don't like them equally (i.e. I like the coupe, but not the 911).

That one isn't a diesel Shabba.

And to be honest, I've driven high torque diesels and they can be fun.

Clearly your definition of fun or hard driving is reaching the rev limit... which is a bit pointless in a diesel.

Ah yes, my bad That engine is stonking by all accounts.

I just meant diesels don't tend to have good throttle responses and the power delivery doesn't suit hard driving when you are on the limit etc.

But when are you ever on the limit on the road?

Baad shabba!

The Z4 is by no means a quick car.

A work colleague of mine had the 2.5l model. He had it chipped and still he couldn't get away from my Civic Type R, which is by no means any threat to a Coupe.

Great post.

I love my 997. Sure it doesn't have the push in the back like the Coupe had but everything else about the driving experience is superior. The driving position is fantastic, you sit low, everything is within reach, centered steering wheel, rev counter in middle of instrument cluster, just makes you want to drive it.

The throttle response is instant and linear, the brakes only need a slight amount of travel to start working and again are linear, not over servoed. It's also easy to drive, I'm using it as a daily driver.

The handling is worlds apart from a Coupe, no drama it just squats and gets on with it. No torque steer, no jumping front wheels, fantastic feel through steering wheel and very stable at speed. Just don't lift mid corner!!!

My friend hates Porsches, only gay guys drive them, would disown me as a friend blah blah blah. I let him sit in it one day, I don't like him enough to let him drive it! He was blown away, finally he could understand what I had been raving about. A true sports car not a family car made sporty.

Not everyone likes the shape or image though. I can understand that but I've wanted once since I was at school.

I still love my Coupe. I enjoyed modifying it and it's far more than a car to me. It gets a huge amount of attention in Canada and I'm proud that most of the work done is mine. However I'm finding it difficult to imagine wanting to drive it over the 997.

At some point you have to accept that dumping more money into the car is simply not worth it. I should have cut my losses a long time ago and bought the car I always wanted.

Well I can`t agree , I got 280hp coop and when I tested 360 spider, ferrari realy impressed me with the performance. It has torque all the way on all gears. and keeps accelerating strong after 120mph.

Well he did say "Unless you spend a hell of alot of money" and your talking about a Ferrari, so.......

I have driven Shabba's Z4 and in comparison to my old coupe it feels very different.

The coupe gives a nice sharp kick when the turbo spools up, the bigger the turbo the more the kick and the more the the thrill. And that is something you can do on a long straight bit of road.

Saying that having a big turbo is not always a good thing especially when it comes in mid corner and shunts you into the nearest field. Its not particularly great for commuting either.

The Z4 was a lot different, all very linear and unless going seriously fast it felt a bit boring. But it is better put together and does have the panache of RWD. Its just a shame they didn't put the M3 V8 into it.

That is my personal opinion, and not long after that I had a go in a Lotus S2 around the Hethel track and that was a world of difference as well. Each to their own.