I don't know guys....

There could be a limiting factor...

All I know is I've found my self looking at Jap crap....

Maybe the dyno had an off day??

Thanks, that really cheered me up.
Feel free to supply razor blades and a hot bath to the next person you want to cheer up!

Did you not want to put a bigger blower on mate?

standard exhaust?this would restrict power a fair amount.

Yer I do...
But I'm really at the point of not caring..

I've spent around 1.5k (ish) in mods and gained 18bhp...
I know the turbo is my limiting factor but as T said, spend a lot less and have more...

The annoying thing is, the car is just crying out for 3 things to make a monster car.
1. 3" down pipe
2. Bigger turbo
3. Flea map.

hmm all I need is around £975 to get 300+ bhp.

Is it wort it?

Realisicly all I want is 320bhp so it ticks all the boxs for road and track, all the suspension, brakes ect is In place, just could do with more power.

Standard DP but it's de-cat with a milteck on it.

sorry to hear all this mate, i know you'd have been expecting 240 - 250 bhp at least. maybe time to get it re-sprayed a nice pink?

I ran 300bhp on a standard downpipe for ages



Once you've driven a Coupe with 300+ bhp, you'll realise what a daft question that really was - of course it's worth it...

Ok, do knock of a couple of houndred...

Still need £225 for a mapp, the how ever much a stage 3 hybrid costs!!

Still at least £700

Sorry Marco only messing, it must be so frustrating.
I think you definitely just needed a bigger turbo.
I thought you said you had an R to go on there? Put it on and THEN go to Flea. The difference from where you are now to 300 ish maybe a bit more, you will be laughing and loving it all day long! Then you will think its worth it.
Trust me get that done asap!

P.s, I also think a nice brand new Forge 007 dump valve will help too,

Already got that forge DV.
The GT28 I had is Fu**ked.
There is forward & back play.. Too excessive to risk puttin it on my car.

So I had to play it safe with my turbo.

As I said to you yesterday Marco, you need to look at the positives not the negatives Your car is now running better than ever, and it's a very nice car to drive on the road, and quick too.

When you first brought the car to me it put out 206bhp on the very first run! We subsequently found the wastegate actuator was knackered giving max 1bar boost, but even with standard boost your car was down on standard power by 14bhp. Your car also didn't like the 95 fuel, so it was actually pinging badly with the standard chip! Now you have a new standard actuator, and it reaches 1.2bar no problem, the only issue is that it doesn't hold quite as much boost at the top end with 0.7bar by 6000rpm. This is likely due to the larger FMIC, which the standard turbo is not man enough to fill at high rpms, so there is a greater pressure drop. The change to high octane fuel has helped no end, and I was able to tune the car for some very good gains especially in the mid-range.

Everything is relative, in reals terms you have gained 32bhp and over 30lbs/ft of torque, it doesn't really matter how it relates to other cars. However, as a comparison, take a look at the charts below which compares two Stage 1 setups.

Matthew - 262bhp & 242lbs/ft
Marco - 238bhp & 238lbs/ft




You can see that it is really only at high rpms i.e. 5500rpm onwards that you are sufferring, and this correlates with the greater boost drop off as mentioned above. There is nothing you can do about this with a standard turbo, it simply doesn't have the grunt to push the amount of air through your system. Of course if you decide to change to a bigger turbo at some point, well then at least you know your car is capable and ready to take on the challenge!

Chin up Marco, there is nothing wrong with your car It drives great and is a solid platform for moving to the next level should you choose to do so.

Basically, in short, get a bigger turbo and you'll be laughing then.

Short term. Haven't got the money to do so.

can you not get the gt28 rebuilt?would cost less than a new unit.

In that case, I suggest the following:-

1) stop spending and enjoy the car as it is for a while. It's now running perfectly and you can drive it hard in the knowledge that it won't die on you due to poor setup.

2) Keep an eye out for a suitable turbo and possibly a downpipe coming up for sale - turbos pop up very regularly, as other members continue their slide down the very slippery modding slope

I reckon if you planned for a Spring 2012 upgrade, you'd give yourself a chance to take a financial breather and actually enjoy the car, rather than constantly working on it. I hit that same plateau about three years ago, after an awfully long time mucking around. I have REALLY enjoyed the reliability and stability of what I've got and I reckon you would also benefit from a bit of a 'breather'

Take a rest - you deserve it

Marco if you rear between the lines rather than chaqsing power figures your graph shows you have excellent midrange power with fantastic duration.
A lot of quick bhp cars i see are no quicker than small hybrids on the road.

How many times have I said this?

a 300bhp Coupe with a small turbo would be a real challenge for to keep up with on a twisty B road - the low-down and mid-range punch of a hybrid-equipped Coupe is something I long for in my car

Marco, I wouldn't be disappointed at all mate.

BHP figure isn't what makes it feel fast. Lb/ft is.

That shove of 238lb/ft midrange, is a good whack on the standard turbo, and ideally you don't wanna be whacking it to the redline anyways, so just change at 5500rpm, and drop right into the bottom of your power band again.

Ross

that will be lbf ft, no?

G

What do you know?!

Ross

Well after the AGM I'm storing the car for a bit.
Sticking it in a safe garage.

Then next year I will decide what to do...

Yes... Why do you ask??

If you want to build a 20vt engine let me no

Marco, sorry if i sound blunt, i just want to make some frank points here. I could not bother wasting my, erm, typing but hopefully you'll take something positive from it.

The statement is madness. Too many people chase the magical bhp figure. Often little more than pub talk in my opinon. Almost meaningless in real life terms without context. Sure do it because you want to, but not because you feel like you've failed if you don't.

When building an engine the starting block is the cam as it defines other build components and tolerances. When the cam is selected it will determine the power delivery characteristics, power band etc. Now then, a race car may deliver say 100bhp but if the power band is 5-7k rpm and the peak bhp is at 6750 its pretty useless on the road compared to a 'milder cammed car' delivering 80bhp with a wide power band. Peak is misleading but people are attracted to it like moths to bright lights.

I have always maintained that if you are talking road cars (which this is), and you dont have a cammed engine with a close ratio box (which wouldnt be ideally suited to the road) then its all about torque and ... 'the area under the curve'.

Unfortunately people become obsessed with comparing willy sizes, bigger is better etc and it is simply not true. (waits for jokes about me saying this because i have a small willy etc )

You should be looking at the average torque delivered in your average driving range for any given application. For road use therefore probably 1000-5000 revs(ish).

Secondly tractability is important, if flea has done his job he will have tweaked the map where necessary to bring in the maximum advance for the fuelling at any given rev range and load. This will produce benefits that arent shown on the graph but your smile and arse dyno will recognise.

If you were my garage apprentice id bitch slap you and tell you to man up... you are looking at another car because you RR was a tad lower than expected? Pffft who cares!

Flea has commented bang on the money, look at bhp at 5k, less than 10bhp, on over 200 bhp thats less than 5%. Similar difference at 5k regarding torque. The torque differences after 5k are more significant but is that the range you drive in 'all the time'?

Your reaction about bolting on more mods is worrying, more mods because the current ones didnt deliver what you expected.....

Ask yourself why the current set up may not have achieved the differences. Try and understand those first. If, with all things equal, your car is delivering significantly less power than another there is something that needs resolving.

The risk with just bolting things on is that you risk adversely affecting the cars performance, perhaps this happened with the IC as suggested.

The bigger blower and downpipe will give you more sausages for sure but where are they delivered? Personally i currently have a preference for the stock downpipe and hybrid setup. Less 'pub talk max bhp' but a whole lot more down at low end. Generally this setup will make for a faster road car as you dont work a road car in the high revs all the time.

Now then. Did you get the compression tested and have you had a leak down test done?

If you have, for example, valve seat leakage this will show up significantly in loss of power. Modern fuels can be quite aggressive on valve seats.

You car is, in the main only a meagre 5% down on another mapped example (negligable in this range). It will be tighter and handle well if the suspension mods are done properly. It sounds like you have a good package

Take some time, look away from the bright light. Enjoy what you have, sit back and smile

Hahaha!

Yes Marco, man FFS!!

Listen to Rudi - he speaks much sense.

Driving on the road you want instant throttle, consistent control, and low down torque; you don't spend all day at the red line and on the edge of tyre adhesion unless you're driving like a complete idiot and to the exclusion of other road users' safety.

Which you, from what I've seen, don't.

Ninety-five percent of the time on the road, you'll be under four thousand rpm... that's where it matters.

hmmm sense being spoken on a marco thread - this'll never catch on folks....

Arrr FFS people are reading this ALL wrong!!

I'm 90% happy
10% a little un-happy

The car made 250.4 bhp another day on red dots RR with a Gtec chip.

I was never happy with set up as I was scared to give the car full beans as it had not been properly mapped.

Now it has, I really enjoy the car!

Granted, I was hoping for 250 (ish) but not massively bothered.

Also, I was a bit pissed as I was miss sold my turbo a few years ago...
I was told it was a "stage 1"...

Well no it's fu**ing not.
It's a standard unit.
So that was crushing, but shit happens!!

Reason for looking at Jap crap is so I can stre the coupe as a beauty prose in my garage, save up a few grand and re-build it forged with a bigger turbo ect seeing as the car is ready for it and all the supporting modes are in place!
Plus with Jap crap, you can spend a small amount and get massive results!

Also rudi - comp and leak down test all carried out and I'm happy with everything!!

I really don't want peopleto think I'm not happy with it, I haven't really had time to go out and thrash the royal nuts off it...

Which I will do today

So just to add, I AM HAPPY!!

On the flip side, I REALLY wanted to close the chapter on tuning for a bit, wanted to just get a nice power figure around 300 then be happy a the car is sexual with a great suspension set up and not to mention, GREAT body work!!

P.s rudi... Really... Compare willy size??
You got Proccy foaming at the mouth!!!!!
He has not stopped texting me about it!! Lol