I'm not one to complain or put anyone down for their parts but after finding this today I've decided it best the forum know about these stainless steel manifolds that have been sold over the past couple of years.

This isn't the first time I've found issues with them, but this takes the biscuit as it could of cost Dave a lot more money with repairs if it had fallen off!

The only thing holding this turbo on was the anchor bolt to the block, once undone it fell clean away from the rest of the manifold.

No disrespect to the seller, I know they have these made outside the UK but with all the issues these have been having I think it maybe time to revise the welding technique used and maybe the design on the manifold.

Pictures tell a thousand words.

Thought she was a bit noisy

Top work by Joe as usual

No weld penetration at all there, just butted together and hope.

That's not weld, that's putty.

Shit the bed.

If that turbo had fallen...

WOW

Bye bye engine!!!!

Truley shocking.

already been said, but amusingly, NO weld prep, no root, just put together & buttered to death = ZERO strength.

NO offense, but that welder is only good for making bacon butties

This is a terrible sight. Do you know how time is used this manifold? I have such a collector has not yet been used. I'll be an interesting comment from the seller!

The scariest thing is that i am not alone. There are alot of coupes driving around with these manifolds on them.

I expect those who have them will be booking them in soon though!

and i was worried about my welding , thats just shocking its not even the damage to the car what if it caused a major crash

How many miles has that Manifold done ?

It was fitted Summer 2009, i started doing a rather long commute about 6 months later so i would hazard a guess at 15-20k ?

So... what next... duct tape manifolds?

Ouch truffle.

Least another sign Joe is thorough in his checking.

Ross

Thanks. So thats about 25,000 to 33,000 Kilometers for those who have Left hand drive.

I dont know i'm right handed

I only drive with my left hand when i'm holding a beer in my right

Brilliant line!

now wheres stan for your cavity search??

Yes i have heard you only drive in 1st gear Dave,

Thank god I sold mine before I even put it on.

If that was mine I would be ... I was thinking about going stainless but after looking at that I'm sticking with the good old cast one's..

Thanks for posting that up Joe.

This needed to be brought to peoples attention, my only concern is how many more are like this throughout the UK and Europe.

Jesus christ monkey balls, my mum could weld better than that!!

I refused to fit these after the first one i did. They just didnt look up to spec, very poor quality welds and many of them are not flat.

I was watching one of those on Ebay tonight, thought, shall I, shant I Just went for £264, thats alot of money for a poor quality product Not that I'd spend that sort of money on one anyway
Glad I didn't, cheers Joe

evo stick would of held better

Such a cold weld

not a lot of penetration on the pipe there. looks like pish poor welding unfortunately or as suggested cracking because it wasnt tempered.

I see this shocking welding all the time.
Not sure what welders they use but most are done in situ.
Never seen one detatch like that before,although that wouldve helped me out last week when i had to fit a turbo and noticed some moron had welded the manifold over the front manifold bolts.
That was a bad day.

Twist!

No shi* that would of been the end of my day, i would of packed my tools and gone home!!!

JBT you are a sucker for punishment!! an i don't mean that whips and chains thing you keep sending me photos of...

i mean that whips and chains thing you keep sending me photos of...
[/quote]
how do i get on this marco?

I have one of these.

are these the ones sold in the group buy a year or so ago?

Yes I believe so.

I think there have been a couple of group buys on them. One a good while ago, and then again, like you say, about a year or so ago.

I bought mine as an one off, from him directly.

I saw this yesterday, pretty shocking really and a extra cost for the owner for something that he thought was sorted! I see that they are also currently being sold on ebay!

I certainly won't be entertaining these guy's.

Hope you give the engine bay a quick clean while you were there

The engine bay is the least of your worries when it comes to car care! lmao

Not impressed by the swirlies, chips, dings and whatnot then?

Each to their own Truf, each to their own

I'm hoping this applies only to the 20v version as I think mine came from the same seller. I've only had it fitted for a couple of months and not back on the road yet

How quickly did it 'let go' Truff? i.e. has it been blowing for a while and then bang - tractor sound....

It's been blowing for about 8-9 months, but had just been getting progressively more diesel like.

It was a real shame as Joe fitter a nice Supersprint exhaust to the car after my back box succumbed to rust, and you just couldn't hear anything like an exhaust note.

There was never a 'bang' moment becuase the last of the 'weld' was holding it in place, but when Joe undid the anchor support bolt, the last of the weld gave in an it dropped out.

I cant wait to get her back. It should be like a transformed car. Engine note, and a massive improvement to turbo spool up and fuel economy

I should say

I've gone back to cast original for a while now after suffering repeated weld cracking on a stainless one.

Argh! False alarm, i'm sitting here waiting for Joe to ring to tell me to come and pick up the car.

It just did, but it was VirginMedia

Wow!! I had a bit of female intuition* and pulled out of that group buy, I'm so glad I did.
Did they come with any warranty and has anyone contacted the guy selling these?



*The Mrs wouldn't let me buy one because we needed a new mattress!

Dunno about proper warranty, but the seller replaced one I had fitted after a crack appeared.

That was about 2 years ago.

Hope you getting more mileage out of it?

yes she is

What was the name of the seller?

I've already sent him a link to this thread

Hi.
Would of been nice to speak to me first but anyhow.
Yours was one of the very first I had made, these manifolds I've sold for around the £220 mark, having sold over 300 I'd say a few failing is not that bad. I'd expect with your post then at least 30 10% might come on and say what a bad experience they had.. seems none so far.
Please keep in mind these were sold as a "cheap" exchange for the standard manifold which costs around £600 and quite possibly would also crack in less time! with no warranty from main dealer.
Over the years of selling this manifold I've replaced anyones manifold for free if it was faulty or failed, this is over and above the main dealer. Total replaced manifolds is about 5 which I'd say is quite good given the amount sold.
I actually agree that the welds on YOUR manifold are poor, lets just say you had a Monday morning manifold. :-/
Just one more point which I think is very relevant, I've sold these manifolds to forum members at about £220 each, they are currently for sale by other retailers at 600 Euros!

Paul

Fair play to Paul for not running and hiding and for replacing the suspect manifolds.

There are some comments in one of the for sale posts. http://www.fiatcoupeclub.org/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=96258&Number=1150627#Post1150627 and http://www.fiatcoupeclub.org/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1064589&page=1 some say they are very good some say not impressed. Good price for the manifold though and to be fair even FIAT have struggled to make a reliable exhaust manifold for the Coupe.

I don't have the Stainless manifold so can't comment any further but I am watching this thread with some interest.

Apologies for being a numpty,
guys are these ok or not ok ?
Ebay Clicky

Its often been said on this forum that the true measure of a good Coupe specialist is not how many mistakes they make, but how they rectify the mistake once its happened

I have to say that I was astonished at the quality of the welding in the photos on this thread. However, if Paul arranges a rapid replacement, then I honestly don't think anyone can whinge too loudly.

I seem to recall that these manifolds were being sold as a "cheap-n-cheerful" replacement for the OE cast manifold - they were not being sold as a performance enhancement or even as a better quality replacement.

Its clear that the manifold shown was defective, and as such, it wasn't "fit for purpose" - If Paul has previously replaced manifolds with cracks, then this case should qualify for instant replacement.

Let's see what happens before we get too carried away

Paul I appreciate your response to this situation but the design, welding technique and materials being used for these manifolds just aren't up to the job, costs aren't relevant here.

Is that assumption on the basis of one failed manifold?

There's no assumption here Benje, it's not the first issue I've had with these manifolds, I posted this thread becasue this manifolds failure was so extreme and it could of cost the customer a lot more then just a replacement.

And it could have put a nasty bump on Joes forehead

First of all a thank you to Paul for replying to the various post's about the said manifold.
I feel that his point about a possible 10% could have been faulty and that he has replaced 5 units or so is a bit misleading or possibly misleading.
We have to allow for the selling on of coupe's that then have faulty manifolds and then replaced by new owners.Please remember that there will be owners that think the manifold is a standard part,also owners that do not visit this forum.
The failure could be much higher,we will never know as they wont all be flagged up by owners,just replaced.
The whole coupe manifold situation is one we have to live and deal with one at a time.

Fair enough, I didn't know about any other issues.

At least when I went out and paid for the prototype work I never gave buyers false information.
The current seller on eBay is spouting complete bs about it being a performance manifold and asking £350 for it.
I did all the leg work and then some dick finds my supplier and starts bugging up and putting the price up. These manifolds are worth £230 tops please don't be fooled.
Paul

Paul,
Have you been in contact with Truffle to rectify this?



Absolutely. And a yardstick in so many other fields.

nigel has hit it on the head there thats what makes a true specialist

If there's a moral to this story then it possibly lies above.

I'm not saying there isn't a quality issue but it looks like the warning was there.

I have one of these manifolds fitted and I'll certenly be keeping my ears peeled.

But thats standard practice with any car,regardless of age.

you say that but coupes are renowned for leaky manifolds, ive had 3 coupe and all of them at some point have had a stud go or a crack in the casting.

If some of the manifolds, if not all are as bad as the pics make out to be then the makers need briefing up about the quality.

either way good to see the problem is being voiced and sorted out instead of covered up.

90% of the cast FIAT manifolds crack and break yet we dont go crying to fiat. This is the first most have heard about it and the maker has come out and addressed the issue.

Nigel is has hit the nail on the head

Well we did initially and some of us got a replacement paid for as a good will gesture, thanks to the efforts of Nigel, and my "mark 3" replacement is still going fine. But that was a long time ago and the story is now legend...

LOL - that was a blast from the past - We ended up with over eighty manifolds replaced at Fiat's cost - something like £50,000 worth of parts and labour

In this case though, I don't believe the maker has done anything whatsoever to resolve it, he's merely agreed this was a bad example. Credit where credit's due, not when it's not

Nigel's comment still stands.

Went to see a coupe with a friend on the weekend.

Ex forum car (can't rmember the plate), been mapped by flea and had one of these manifolds.

Sounded like a tractor, though the price was right and was bought anyway. On taking off the heatshield today, the manifold has failed on the welds.

Seriously guys, stainless steel fatigues over a relatively short period of time depending on its grade. I certainly wouldn't use a stainless steel manifold on a turbo charged engine due to the excessive heat the engine produces.

You really are asking for trouble.

I was really tempted by these but decided against it on the basis that there wasnt any research to suggest that they didnt perform worse than the standard manifold. phew!

Just a comment. At work we got a fabricater in as we up against it.
I showed him the pics and he said that stainless is not really the way to go with manifolds or exhausts for that matter! As they are prone to cracking, even with good welds. And suggested that they really need to be wrapped.
I was kind of surprised as I thought stainless would be a fit and forget item that would out live the car.
His background is motorsport, rollcages etc etc working on Colin McRaes cars and the like, so I guess he knows some.

It depends on which size and grade stainless is used, how its welded and heat treatment to normalise the whole unit once finished.

Out of interest, is the flange stainless ?
Just wondering as that's where it failed so badly

Yes all the components are made of stainless, unsure which grade though, I'm guessing 321 or 304 but maybe Paul could answer this?

They usually use zinc plated mild steel flanges, and hopefully they grind off the zinc layer before welding? 304 is what they tell they are made off, but for sure it is the cheapest grade you can find over there. 321 it is surely not and never will be also with this manufacturer.

By the looks of the weldfaillure at the flange, there is indeed no penetration at all, so the welder was actually not welding anything at all .

The crack at the collector looks alot like an stress crack, just like the oem ones do after hopefully a lot more km/s miles.

304 is indeed not the best material, but all others except steampipe are to expensive for most people.

Regards remco

hmm, I have one of these manifolds and will now be keeping a worried keen eye on it. Its been fitted for 9 months now and done around 2.5k miles it is still holding up ok sofar and I do give it something to stress over once in a while

Hello, this is how paul treats people ho byes his goods.
And I had to wait 6 months for my money from ebay/paypal !!

"You must be joking? You use my manifold that you have bought whilst you have your old one repaired and then expect me to give you a full refund. I'm very sorry but I cannot accept the damaged manifold if you have used and then damaged it. Regards Paul"

And this is what this poor boy says about me when he tryes to sell me his junk!

"First ebayer and what complete idiot never sell to him" Oct-04-10 10:37

Sounds like a .

I decided to have a go at welding my cracked manifold. No i am no welder but i am quite pleased with the results. If anyone wants one welded up ,just send a pm.
http://www.leboncoin.fr/equipement_auto/195101326.htm?ca=2_s

Joe, you shouldn't have.

Really, you shouldn't have!

I too have had problems with the stainless manifold I bought.

I fitted it while the engine was out of the coop & less than 6months & less than 1000 miles it was blowing !!

Took it off to find that the 5th branch (gearbox side) had cracked all the way around the weild & blown part of it out. Also found cracking along the weild where the manifold joins the turbo.

Had to buy another standard manifold from a helpful specialist that was over £200 inc postage with a Fiat 3 plated metal manifold gasket & all is ok now.

I'm pi**ed off that I paid for a crap manifold that also didn't seal to the cylinder head with the gasket supplied.

My 2 pennies worth.

I had mine fitted in December, just hope it holds out.

Mine begun leaking after 2 hours...

Mine has been sounding like a diesel for the last three months as far as i can see its cracked around one of the welds on the far right, can't see the turbo flange so i don't know if thats still holding. |But at the moment it doesn't sound like theres an exhaust attached when it starts.

not best pleased

Best thing you can do is stick a standard manifold (thats not cracked) & a metal fiat gasket back on !
It's got better flow than the one you have at the mo

Then you use the expensive bit of metal you take off as a door stop as thats all thats going to happen to it

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fiat-coupe-20v...ac#ht_720wt_905
this one started blowing after a week and has been back to a fiat garage twice and they tell me its a poor fit and maybe warped!

I bought one of these manifolds last spring, but only got round to having it fitted a year ago.
It's done 7000 miles & it's cracked on the 5th branch. Roger at PowerItalia brought this to my attention when he fitted a new turbo to my Coupe the other week.

So I contacted the seller, and I asked him for a refund. I didn't want a replacement because I believe these manifold are poor quality,
& I'd just end up with the same problem a year or so down the line.

Here's what his reply was:

Hi
Sorry I don't have any left and do not refund as they are sold without any garuntee.
I did replace a couple in the early days at my own discresion but no longer have stock to do that.
Paul.


Nigel is absolutely right, but as you can all now see, Paul is not in the least bit interested!

As a forum member, and a fellow Coupe enthusiast, I think his attitude is appalling!

He stated earlier in this thread:


.....But it's a waste of time! He's just 'washed his hands' of the whole matter!

So, if anybody else on this forum is offered this kind of.....'product' in the future, my advice is:

don't waste your money!

.....please let us know (the moderating team) as his selling permissions have been revoked. We don't need this sort customer "service" on here.

Thank you Stan

Well as he is just reseller or maybe a one time bulk buyer he is legally obliged to offer a 30day money back garrentee at lest and then refer you onto the manufacture, but if it's over a year and he has none in stock or will no longer be buying them because of that reason then that's just sods law, iv got one of these manifolds and it's got crack all over it and it's around 15 months old but I bought because it was cheaper then a cast manifold and if I had a tire custom manifold made it would cost at lest £600+

the only plus side is that it's easier to tig weld and fix then a cast that's a pain to weld but it's cheap yes and personaly yes it is crap but it fits and works well but like all manifolds on these 20vt they all crack sooner then later.

A very good reason to ban the selling of them.

Sorry to start more alarm bells ringing, but I was driving home yesterday, and after I left the motorway I noticed that the car was sounding 'dog rough'

Yeah, you guessed it, the manifold has started to disintegrate! Now I'm off the road until I can source an uncracked original Fiat one, and get it fitted.

I'm not very happy, to put it mildly, so for any others of you out there with one of these manifolds, I urge you to get it checked (and probably replaced) ASAP.

On the bright side, at least I now have an opportunity to take a few bits off the car and get them refurbished. Would rather be driving it though, of course..

sorry to hear it gaz that you like others have brought these pants manifolds and the fact i almost did aswell.

I know of a few of these that have done this. Starting with the welds cracking where the branches join the flange at the cylinder head.

Standard Fiat manifold is the way to go, the latest design only develops superficial cracks at the base that are frankly irrelevant to its operation.

Bought one of these when this guy decided to make and sell them again. Trouble is it's now cracked on most of the welds and lasted about 1/5th the time of my original coupe manifold. fcck2000 (also his ebay name) is completely unprepared to talk to me at all but he will decline close offers on his ebay items after a few hours- funny that!
Anyway i thought i would warn others of his dubious business practices. I wonder if he will talk now????

I've just bought one of the stainless tubular manifold off the bay.

On close inspection the welds were none penetrating and oxidized on the insides.

So far i have re-welded it, shot blasted it and setting up a fixture to skim the mating surfaces.

All of which should have been done by the seller.

To the best of my knowledge no-one has yet come up with a cost-effective alternative to the OE manifold; maybe some of the monster tuners have had a different experience......

There's no escaping the fact that a proper tubular manifold costs strong money, I made my own and the materials cost over a grand, stupid I can imagine you thinking but when there's no off the shelf manifold worth buying I had no choice but to make what I wanted. Like all tuning parts, it's not cheap when you buy it twice.

Manifold was purchased June 2009 and you contact me asking for a refund!
I sold these at around £200 each others have sold the same item for £500 and more.
Stop whining and move on.

But there are off the shelf tubular manifolds for the 20v turbo. The Tigart one is really good and costs around £1200.

Then there's the standard manifold which is very good as they do over 500bhp, but not cheap either. £800 new from Fiat if I remember correctly.

Enviable customer service here.....

The fact is that these manifolds have been repeatedly proven to be unfit for the purpose for which they were sold - ie of unmerchantable quality. The retail price is irrelevant.

In September 2001, after almost a year of negotiations with Fiat, I managed to get about 80 cracked 20vt manifolds repaired free of charge, despite the fact that some of them were up to five years old. Fiat UK clearly recognised their liability and acted accordingly. If they had told me to "stop whining and move on", they would have ended up with a much bigger bill.

Due to the public interest for these manifold failures, this thread will be kept open, but descent into abuse will not be tolerated - keep it civil.

I would also remind Paul of his post on 30 March this year



Perhaps you would like to stand by it?

It's bad to see these manifolds are still being sold in the same quality. I would of thought the manufacture would have sorted he act out by now because like others have said its not fun buying twice.

I think the message to others should be

STICK WITH THE STANDARD MANIFOLD!

It has been proven both by Nigel and barbz to be fine on 400+ bhp coupes

I believe that I am also living proof that regular and hard use is not the reason for cracking of the OE manifold

Mine has now been on the car for at least 200,000 miles

I'm not in a position that fiat are... Did they replace manifolds with a brand new one or repair them? I've offered to repair even after 2 years of use but will certainly not be doing so again.
Read through my original posts when selling the manifolds. They were always sold as a cheap alternative, not an expensive proven product.
I've stopped selling them for well over a year now and have no dealings with the supplier.
At the time of selling them I would at my own discression replace and or refund anyone who had issues, I no longer do this.
Dispute what the witch hunt might be saying only a very small number of the manifolds have failed and this is when they are over 2 years old in some cases. Even this witch hunt thread is only showing a few who have a broken manifold, others are just jumping the witch hunt band wagon.
As I have said all along, manifolds are made of a material that can be easily welded, this is a plus over the cast manifolds which also crack after time.
Paul

Hmmm - if the stainless manifolds are "made of a material that can be easily welded", it questions the welding skills of the manufacturer, who is clearly not capable of doing the job properly in all cases.

There's nothing wrong with a cheap alternative - plenty of Coupe owners fit parts that cost less then an OE replacement. However, it is not reasonable for an item such as an exhaust manifold to have such a short shelf-life - as I said above, it should be fit for the purpose for which it was sold, and failure after a couple of years is definitely not "fit for purpose" - no trading standards officer in the land would argue.

For reference, Fiat replaced any cracked manifolds with brand new items and also for clarity, the OE manifolds don't crack over time, they crack when they are used infrequently and for short journeys. Use the car for regular long journeys and they are supremely durable.

As for not being in a position that Fiat are - again, an irrelevance - you sold a product which is now proving to have an unacceptable failure rate. The size of the organisation does not limit the liability.

Perhaps if you have no longer have dealings with the supplier, you should provide their details, so that owners with cracked manifolds can seek redress (although legally, the liability is yours).

However, I remember only too well how much effort I ended up putting into the Fiat manifold claim, so I'm certainly not going to get further involved in this one.

I've heard some 'satisfied buyers' might be grouping up and are considering legal action.

For now I can only warn people about the inferior quality of MANY products sold on eBay. That includes even BRANDED items eg. there are Brembo discs for sale on the bay that are actually chinese copies and made of maple syrup.

BEST advice: buy from known dealers. Sometimes it's even cheaper.

Of course, if you're on a quest to find bad sellers and want to take them to court... eBay's your little garden of joy.

Oh... as always: people can share their experiences with the admins. We're very interested.

Out of interest what manifolds do you sell and what warranty do you give on them?
Do you give a lifetime one like you seem to think I should?

Vested interest in your last post maybe??

Well if fiat are so good at replacing manifolds maybe you should go back to them again? Or maybe they don't give a lifetime warrant on them! Why do you expect me to?
Please feel free to report me to eBay and trading standards and even take a case in the small claims against me.
I'm sure every court in the land will back up a exhaust should last a lifetime even when sold as seen.
The company who supplied them in china have now gone bust so not much point chasing your tail on that either.

Did I not supply you one and replace it for free?

Paul

I don't sell manifolds, other than the occasional secondhand OE item

A lifetime warranty would probably be regarded as unreasonable, but a 2-year lifespan is unacceptable for an item that would normally be regarded as much more durable. It's hardly a wear & tear item and for the vast majority of vehilces, it IS a lifetime item. Even Ferrari had an out-of-warranty replacement policy for the regular exhaust manifold failures on the F355 - this was solely down to the fact that it was perfectly reasonable to expect such an item not to fail.

Out of interest what manifolds do you sell and what warranty do you give on them?
Do you give a lifetime one like you seem to think I should?

Vested interest in your last post maybe??

Did I supply you one and replace it for free?

Paul

To be fair, if these manifolds went wrong after a year when they were out of warranty, there's nothing you can do about it legally.

They were cheap and looked it as well. If people don't want to spend money on proper OE parts or parts that are proven, I don't think they should be complaining a year or two afterwards.

The point is: they shouldn't even be SOLD. 'Looked cheap' is not something you can use in a defence. People hear the price of a new manifold, it's £1.000. They find a 20vt manifold somewhere else, for £250 they think it's because it's not got a Fiat stamp on it. You can't expect 'normal' people to know about how a quality exhaust manifold looks, leave alone have the knowledge to judge welding or strength of the material.

That said, it's amazing to see the opportunities for making money by getting something made in china. Don't care if it's crap or not. I had a set of replica Ferrari rims that were donated by someone to make a table of. They dented when I put them on the floor.

Not all stuff from China fails, most of the stuff in the world is made in China.
The supplier also made 16vt manifolds which have been sold all over the world by the thousands.

Thanks for the post
I guess you never bought one then..
Paul

I have had a few chats with Paul now, after finally getting his attention and not surprisingly (without being uncivil myself!) he is err- uncivil!

It's funny how he was lovely when he was "designing" them back on '09 (see posts). The thing that annoyed me most was there was no mention that they were made in China at the sale stage- as in NEVER MENTIONED. I bought this on the understanding that an engineer, or someone of some skill at least made this in the UK. He never said as much (cleverly!) but that's what the posts from '09 and the ebay add lead me to believe. I certainly would not have bought it knowing the welding had been done in China.

Whatever weaselly excuses he comes up with now, it is without doubt that he has never been transparent from the word go. Annoyingly i bought his manifold and replaced mine when actually it was just a gasket issue. Stupidly i sold the old OEM item believing i now had the superior part fitted- if only i had known my poor fiat had a Chop Suey exhaust then!

Now i have just been told by a local engineering company that under closer inspection it is FULL of cracks and will cost hundreds to repair (a full reweld!!). The chap said without doubt it's an issue with design and poor welding equipment/ settings that has caused it. Unlikely just a one off.


And so it seems, on here alone there are quite a few unhappy customers, i have messaged some of you via different forums/ebay and i wondered if Kayjay could give me more info regarding those members considering legal action. Certainly if anyone would like to send me a private message of support i would most welcome it. At the very least i would like to seek his removal from ebay entirely.

Perhaps since i have his full address, phone number, email etc etc a few of us could go knock on his door, is that legal and is it pointless?

He tells me he is currently unemployed (though i suspect this is a lie) but perhaps he will think twice about making money in this country via some numpty firm in China in future.

If you don't make it yourself you can't vouch for the quality, and if you lead people to believe it is made here by you or by someone locally in the this country you MUST except that people will be seriously annoyed when they are NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE. He doesn't help himself by ignoring ebay messages for so long, it just makes me (and others no doubt) more keen to kick up a fuss.
Anyway i look (sort of) forward to hearing from some peeps!

Oh and anyone got an OEM manifold at a good price?
Or, for that matter, does anyone want to buy a badly cracked , Chinese made exhaust manifold?

NO , thank god

I actually did buy one, but took one look at it and sold it straight on as I wasn't going to put it on my car.

Glad I did as it probably would have caused me pain.

Yes indeed. But it normally says on those items where they are made and the information is not concealed from potential buyers at point of sale now is it? Moreover i trust large chinese companies to make some electronics (ipod for example), however i certainly don't trust Chinese cars or much of there small run engineering. Your manifolds are a smallish run and specialist engineering is exactly the sort of thing the british are known for (and good at- just look at Formula 1!!), not the chinese!
I think Paul knew very well that he wouldn't sell a single one if people knew where it had been engineered and that is exactly why he kept that information concealed.