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Rear ARB decision.
#1156358
14/01/2011 11:37
14/01/2011 11:37
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Marco20valveT
Unregistered
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Marco20valveT
Unregistered
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right after playng around with my set up on paper and experiences from other coupes ive been in i know that a rear arb makes a world of difference.
i would love to buy the Eibach kit, but jsut cant afford it at this moment in time so my other option is to go for a whiteline rear arm..
looking at which one to go for..
they do a 22mm and a 24mm rear arb.
ive been told by a track lover that a 24mm will make the back end a bit lively...
but what will the 22mm do to the car?
the full spec to be fitted to my car shorty will be.. koni's + Eibach camber bolts (-1 degree) poly bushed front end (lower arms, drop links, front arb 23mm bush's)
i have been thinking about hub spacers but i dont want to put extra pressure on the hubs.
advice needed please!
Marco
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Re: Rear ARB decision.
[Re: ]
#1156369
14/01/2011 11:59
14/01/2011 11:59
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,985 In an Audi
Taffy20vt
My life on the forum
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My life on the forum
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,985
In an Audi
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22mm is a straight fit, the 24mm will need custom brackets making.
I have the 24mm on the back of mine (with D2 rear shocks and springs) and its the single best handling mod I have done.
Ex 432bhp '00 Sprinty 20vt6 '17 S3 Sportback '69 Amazon 131
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Re: Rear ARB decision.
[Re: Taffy20vt]
#1156376
14/01/2011 12:11
14/01/2011 12:11
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jonone
Unregistered
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jonone
Unregistered
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my back end is really stable with the 22mm and i have heavier springs in the rear than the front. you could add a dedra front arb later if you really wanted too.
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Re: Rear ARB decision.
[Re: ]
#1156396
14/01/2011 12:54
14/01/2011 12:54
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Marco20valveT
Unregistered
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Marco20valveT
Unregistered
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22mm is a straight fit, the 24mm will need custom brackets making.
I have the 24mm on the back of mine (with D2 rear shocks and springs) and its the single best handling mod I have done. my back end is really stable with the 22mm and i have heavier springs in the rear than the front. you could add a dedra front arb later if you really wanted too. ok... so with you both saying the 22mm and 24mm are great.. help...
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Re: Rear ARB decision.
[Re: ]
#1156411
14/01/2011 13:30
14/01/2011 13:30
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jonone
Unregistered
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jonone
Unregistered
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Depends how you want the car to handle and how track/road orientated you want it to be. The bigger bar will make it understeer less by giving the rear less grip,which you should only really notice pushing hard on track days, I don't think your fully exploit this on the road.( i have not tried the 24mm) Sparco is using the 24mm with std front arb at totb and still getting understeer,which is the nature of the car. as mentioned above you have to get the brackets made up for the 24mm where the 22mm you can use the std brackets. If you go for the 24mm and you dont like the rear bias you can add a dedra front arb to give you amore neutral overall flatter handling car.
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Re: Rear ARB decision.
[Re: ]
#1156438
14/01/2011 14:24
14/01/2011 14:24
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,694 Midlands
MCMike
Club member 2095
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Club member 2095
Forum is my job
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,694
Midlands
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I have Dedra front ARB & whiteline 22mm rear ARB, the car is pretty neutral. Very happy with my setup.
1972 Triumph Stag 1984 Alfasud TI 1999 Fiat Coupe Turbo LE 2005 350Z
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Re: Rear ARB decision.
[Re: ]
#1156444
14/01/2011 14:31
14/01/2011 14:31
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Wilu
Unregistered
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Wilu
Unregistered
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Marco this is really good question!
I have almost the same setup Koni & Eibach Pro Kit and have no idea which ARB is the best for Coupe.
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Re: Rear ARB decision.
[Re: ]
#1156475
14/01/2011 15:27
14/01/2011 15:27
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Marco20valveT
Unregistered
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Marco20valveT
Unregistered
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i want to be able to drive the car to its limits... of course the coupe is know for its understeer...
i want to keep the front arb the way it is..
i cant find a deda front arb for love nor money.
i may just go for the 22mm rear, it seems to be a well balance set up.. i dont want to put a 24mm on the rear then have to change the front to a dedra arb to keep it in line!
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Re: Rear ARB decision.
[Re: ]
#1156478
14/01/2011 15:33
14/01/2011 15:33
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,295 Sandhurst
Begbie
Ex El Presidente
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Ex El Presidente
I AM a Coop
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,295
Sandhurst
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i cant find a deda front arb for love nor money. There is one for sale currently in parts for sale
Your car is Usain Bolt with wellies
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Re: Rear ARB decision.
[Re: Begbie]
#1156482
14/01/2011 15:38
14/01/2011 15:38
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Marco20valveT
Unregistered
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Marco20valveT
Unregistered
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think thats sold mate.. plus i cant be arsed to change it!
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Re: Rear ARB decision.
[Re: ]
#1156485
14/01/2011 15:47
14/01/2011 15:47
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proccy
Unregistered
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proccy
Unregistered
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my back end is really stable with the 22mm and i have heavier springs in the rear than the front. you could add a dedra front arb later if you really wanted too. that's my set up, but incudes Nigel's front lower brace and the standard Plus brace....i have a lot of difficulty pushing it out of line, and like taffy i'd say the whiteline rear arb made the most noticeable difference
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Re: Rear ARB decision.
[Re: ]
#1156486
14/01/2011 15:49
14/01/2011 15:49
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Marco20valveT
Unregistered
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Marco20valveT
Unregistered
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i have a lot of difficulty pushing one out.... think i need some lax to soften it up abit..
you sick man..
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Re: Rear ARB decision.
[Re: ]
#1156489
14/01/2011 15:52
14/01/2011 15:52
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proccy
Unregistered
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proccy
Unregistered
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i have a lot of difficulty pushing one out.... think i need some lax to soften it up abit..
you sick man.. Me sick?????
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Re: Rear ARB decision.
[Re: ]
#1156505
14/01/2011 16:26
14/01/2011 16:26
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367 Staffordshire
Nigel
Forum veteran
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Forum veteran
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367
Staffordshire
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There's a simple answer.... A Novitec 23mm rear ARB That's what I have, although I can't remember the last time I heard of one for sale Personally, I'd go for the 24mm and then use other measures to control the onset of oversteer. I actually don't think the 24mm will eradicate understeer, especially on power, but it will make the rear end move around when you lift off mid bend. Simple tracking and camber settings will make it all stable again though
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Re: Rear ARB decision.
[Re: coupedummy]
#1156612
14/01/2011 20:44
14/01/2011 20:44
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,486 London Tan
technics
I need some sleep
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I need some sleep
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,486
London Tan
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Im up for a 22mm whiteline rear ARB.
Now in the 400+ bhp club!
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Re: Rear ARB decision.
[Re: coupedummy]
#1156629
14/01/2011 21:34
14/01/2011 21:34
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proccy
Unregistered
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proccy
Unregistered
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Could poll for a group buy via balancemotorsport? as a comparison i paid £125 for mine
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Re: Rear ARB decision.
[Re: coupedummy]
#1156811
15/01/2011 12:09
15/01/2011 12:09
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Marco20valveT
Unregistered
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Marco20valveT
Unregistered
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There around £115 from balance motor sport!
Can you do the polling in the GB section so we can keep this on track!
@ Nigel, say I go for the 24mm arb, what other things could I adjust to get things moving correctly?
Tracking - easily sorted.. Camber - ?? What setting do you think will work? -1 degree?? Or more?
Take in mind it will still be my daily driver and I would like a set if tyres to last!!!
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Re: Rear ARB decision.
[Re: Per]
#1156844
15/01/2011 13:25
15/01/2011 13:25
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proccy
Unregistered
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proccy
Unregistered
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also if you go for the 24mm one there's a bit of firtling about trying to get them to fit, whereas the 22mm is i believe a straight fit (pretty much)
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Re: Rear ARB decision.
[Re: ]
#1156862
15/01/2011 14:20
15/01/2011 14:20
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suba
Unregistered
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suba
Unregistered
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Marco - go for the following:
22mm arb - it's easier to fit, and will do the job fine. Also you do not have the stiffest suspension in the world, so you dont want the back too solid.
for a daily driver go for -1.1 or 1.2 degrees on the front, and also go for half a degree of toe-out.
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Re: Rear ARB decision.
[Re: ]
#1156868
15/01/2011 14:32
15/01/2011 14:32
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Marco20valveT
Unregistered
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Marco20valveT
Unregistered
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Right before I go crazy, I'm buying a 22mm front arb.
Now tge front arb, I'm right in saying it's 23mm yer?
What size is the dedra front arb??
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Re: Rear ARB decision.
[Re: ]
#1156880
15/01/2011 15:13
15/01/2011 15:13
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jonone
Unregistered
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jonone
Unregistered
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The 22mm is much easier to fit, and does not do any nasty to things to the handling, I have a brand new Dedra front arb collecting dust in my garage,I might sell at some point! (depends on what poundage springs i end up with) I think its 25mm + like suba said 1.0-1.2 neg camber,but i dont like toe out personally,I would keep the std 2mm total toe in.( try it and see)
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Re: Rear ARB decision.
[Re: ]
#1157016
15/01/2011 23:32
15/01/2011 23:32
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suba
Unregistered
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suba
Unregistered
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The toe out really helps turn in.
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Re: Rear ARB decision.
[Re: ]
#1157019
15/01/2011 23:42
15/01/2011 23:42
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jonone
Unregistered
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jonone
Unregistered
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but it makes it less stable,and i don't feel my car needs to turn in any quicker! But like i said its personal,so Marco should try both.
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Re: Rear ARB decision.
[Re: ]
#1157077
16/01/2011 03:34
16/01/2011 03:34
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suba
Unregistered
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suba
Unregistered
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If you want a stable road car then there is no point stiffening the rear end to make it move about rather than understeer!
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Re: Rear ARB decision.
[Re: ]
#1157182
16/01/2011 13:21
16/01/2011 13:21
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sediciRich
Unregistered
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sediciRich
Unregistered
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just change the rear to 24mm marco, the better dampers will control the changed spring rate in roll. Leave the front alone.
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Re: Rear ARB decision.
[Re: Freddan72]
#1157390
16/01/2011 21:14
16/01/2011 21:14
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jonone
Unregistered
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jonone
Unregistered
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The dedra is about 25-26mm(i have not got calipers). Suba, maybe "unstable" is the wrong word to describe toe out,slightly more "nervous" would be a better description, also I think it makes the steering feel lighter,which is not desirable in my mind.
Last edited by jonone; 16/01/2011 21:16.
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Re: Rear ARB decision.
[Re: ]
#1157538
17/01/2011 02:07
17/01/2011 02:07
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suba
Unregistered
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suba
Unregistered
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Yep - that fits. I spent ages getting my coupe to feel like that!
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Re: Rear ARB decision.
[Re: ]
#1157586
17/01/2011 10:30
17/01/2011 10:30
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Marco20valveT
Unregistered
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Marco20valveT
Unregistered
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guys, im really going crazy on this...
forget fitting and every thing else.. lets look at just whats better...
22mm rear arb 3 people
24mm rear arb 3 people
24mm arb + Dedra front arb 1 person
22mm arb + dedra front arb 2 people
right... not getting any where quick lol 3 & 3 for the 22mm and 24mm rear arb's.
ive decided to hold off buying one today and going to see how this thread turns out!
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Re: Rear ARB decision.
[Re: Per]
#1157596
17/01/2011 10:46
17/01/2011 10:46
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Marco20valveT
Unregistered
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Marco20valveT
Unregistered
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well at the moment the car is used for my fun! i play wsith it nearly every day, enjoy driving it and when i can and its safe push it to the max.
this year i plan to get more track days in.
but i would also like to get it to the stage where i could turn up at TOTB with out worrying my spec is not on point.
i do understand its all down to choice, but luckily, people have been there and done that so im in the best palce to get the right info for one of the best set up's with out spending £2000 on Gaz coil overs!!
for me the best test of this set up will be in spa...
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Re: Rear ARB decision.
[Re: ]
#1157598
17/01/2011 10:49
17/01/2011 10:49
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suba
Unregistered
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suba
Unregistered
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There is no right and wrong answer - how you get the car to behave is down to personal taste.
I would leave the front bar alone for now and go 22mm on the rear - play with the alignment, and if you feel that the front is too sharp, or that there is too much body roll, then go for the front bar as well.
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Re: Rear ARB decision.
[Re: ]
#1157601
17/01/2011 11:00
17/01/2011 11:00
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Marco20valveT
Unregistered
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Marco20valveT
Unregistered
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i was expecting an answer like that...
im not going to play with the front bar. The only way i would do that is if i was going to buy the Eibach kit... but i cant afford that at this moment in time.
the problem im also having is getting brilliant advice from well trusted people... BUT some are telling me 22mm some are saying 24mm
all of them can drive and know how to set the coupe up for track and road fun.
and i trust all of them. decisions decisions....
personaly im tempted by the 24mm...
i think i need to kit the suspension first and see what the car... if i feel a minor tweek to the rear then a 22mm will be the key.. but if it needs more work, then of course 24mm and if it still needs it more...
come back and ask you guys what else can i do lol
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Re: Rear ARB decision.
[Re: ]
#1157604
17/01/2011 11:04
17/01/2011 11:04
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suba
Unregistered
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suba
Unregistered
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I'll simplify it for you: 1. 22mm - easy to fit 2. 24mm - pig to fit result: Both will do the job.
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Re: Rear ARB decision.
[Re: Nigel]
#1157613
17/01/2011 11:24
17/01/2011 11:24
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Marco20valveT
Unregistered
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Marco20valveT
Unregistered
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Nigel, im going for Koni socks and eibach springs! standard shocks are a bit too boring for me!
fitting will not be that bad, i will be doing it on a ramp at my mates garage!
so looks like 24mm will be the better choice of the 2!
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Re: Rear ARB decision.
[Re: ]
#1157788
17/01/2011 17:26
17/01/2011 17:26
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367 Staffordshire
Nigel
Forum veteran
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Forum veteran
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367
Staffordshire
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so looks like 24mm will be the better choice of the 2! I would say so, but that's only my opinion. My car still understeers with a 23mm rear ARB and a standard front ARB, so if I had my choice again, I'd go for 24mm However, I can get the rear end of my car to step out if I provoke it a little. Because its set up to be neutral, its all very predictable, but if you go too far, it can become unpredictable, which is no fun, and just slows you down, as you've no idea if the car is going to grip and turn, or just spin. You'll be fine with Billies and Konis and a 24mm ARB
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Re: Rear ARB decision.
[Re: Nigel]
#1157792
17/01/2011 17:37
17/01/2011 17:37
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Marco20valveT
Unregistered
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Marco20valveT
Unregistered
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i see what you mean Nigel!
i think the choice will be a good one!
of course Nigel if your not happy with your set up and fancy a re-sprayed sprinty with a zender kit, i wouldnt mind swapping for the moonie!!
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Re: Rear ARB decision.
[Re: Nigel]
#1157812
17/01/2011 18:06
17/01/2011 18:06
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suba
Unregistered
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suba
Unregistered
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You'll never dial out the understeer completely, there is just too much weight in the nose of the car.
You're right about keeping it predictable for road use - I have no doubt that I could drive my old 20VT faster on some B roads than my RX7 - primarily as it was much easier to correct when it started to slip, so you could really go for it.
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Re: Rear ARB decision.
[Re: ]
#1157830
17/01/2011 18:46
17/01/2011 18:46
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suba
Unregistered
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suba
Unregistered
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LOL!
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Re: Rear ARB decision.
[Re: ]
#1157847
17/01/2011 19:24
17/01/2011 19:24
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Marco20valveT
Unregistered
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Marco20valveT
Unregistered
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Oh FFS sake Dave.
I loved the feel of your car.
No no I'm staying strong and buying a 24mm rear arb.
Dave your welcome a go in mine to see what you think!!
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Re: Rear ARB decision.
[Re: ]
#1157874
17/01/2011 20:32
17/01/2011 20:32
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proccy
Unregistered
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proccy
Unregistered
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Dave your welcome a go in mine to see what you think!!
but hurry up Dave, he'll have smashed it up in no time
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Re: Rear ARB decision.
[Re: ]
#1157900
17/01/2011 21:11
17/01/2011 21:11
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dave_t
Unregistered
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dave_t
Unregistered
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LOL proccy!
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Re: Rear ARB decision.
[Re: ]
#1157961
17/01/2011 22:37
17/01/2011 22:37
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Marco20valveT
Unregistered
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Marco20valveT
Unregistered
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Me crash proccy!?
Suck my nicely shaved plums!!
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Re: Rear ARB decision.
[Re: Freddan72]
#1158074
18/01/2011 08:36
18/01/2011 08:36
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,194 Göteborg, Sweden
Freddan72
Competition Level
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Competition Level
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,194
Göteborg, Sweden
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What is the diameter of the standard 20vt front arb? I found it. Front arb is 23 mm. Rear one is 19 mm.
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Re: Rear ARB decision.
[Re: mr_tickle]
#1158179
18/01/2011 12:21
18/01/2011 12:21
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367 Staffordshire
Nigel
Forum veteran
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Forum veteran
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367
Staffordshire
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Quick question:
What size is the standard rear ARB and roughly how much extra strength (springyness/force) does the 22MM provide?
Thanks Look two posts up from yours ^^^
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Re: Rear ARB decision.
[Re: Nigel]
#1159928
21/01/2011 15:44
21/01/2011 15:44
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Marco20valveT
Unregistered
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Marco20valveT
Unregistered
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just to put an end to this one!
im buying the 24mm rear arb!
thank you and good night!!
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Re: Rear ARB decision.
[Re: ]
#1159930
21/01/2011 15:49
21/01/2011 15:49
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Truffle
Unregistered
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Truffle
Unregistered
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Is that your final answer?
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Re: Rear ARB decision.
[Re: MarioCirillo]
#1159955
21/01/2011 17:08
21/01/2011 17:08
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dave_t
Unregistered
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dave_t
Unregistered
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He'll change his mind yet ... Or complain about being broke ...
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Re: Rear ARB decision.
[Re: ]
#1159959
21/01/2011 17:18
21/01/2011 17:18
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Marco20valveT
Unregistered
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Marco20valveT
Unregistered
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seriously!!!!! Is that your final answer? Yes.. YES You sure you dont want to phone a friend.... oh no wait.... WOW dont you start!!! He'll change his mind yet ... Or complain about being broke ... no Dave, not changing my mind!!! but i am broke! and just before Hovedan starts.... Yes i will be there for the track day!
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Re: Rear ARB decision.
[Re: ]
#1159960
21/01/2011 17:20
21/01/2011 17:20
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ktm450exc
Unregistered
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ktm450exc
Unregistered
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but if you are not wanting the expense of fitting a front one at some point if you find it cuts loose at the back much easier..then the 22ml is the better one ..also it will cost more fitting the 24 having to have brackets made etc..i would have another think about it if i was you .. i thought the 22 ml was the best bet if not touching the front..plus its cheaper,plus cheaper to fit..
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Re: Rear ARB decision.
[Re: ]
#1159963
21/01/2011 17:23
21/01/2011 17:23
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Marco20valveT
Unregistered
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Marco20valveT
Unregistered
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NO... lol
im staying with Nigels Recommendation..
then blaming him if it goes wrong lol
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Re: Rear ARB decision.
[Re: Nigel]
#1160040
21/01/2011 19:54
21/01/2011 19:54
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Marco20valveT
Unregistered
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Marco20valveT
Unregistered
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Re: Rear ARB decision.
[Re: Nigel]
#1160070
21/01/2011 20:57
21/01/2011 20:57
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Marco20valveT
Unregistered
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Marco20valveT
Unregistered
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Yer, Im expecting positive things from the arb! I'm Doing the suspension first leaving it a wek then the rear arb ao I know what difference it really makes!
As I know your speaking from experience, I will expect exactly what you said lol
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Re: Rear ARB decision.
[Re: ]
#1160116
21/01/2011 22:21
21/01/2011 22:21
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proccy
Unregistered
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proccy
Unregistered
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come on you nearly 1000 reads to watch you poncing about with arbs, ffs - do you italians ever make a decison???
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Re: Rear ARB decision.
[Re: MCMike]
#1160314
22/01/2011 17:05
22/01/2011 17:05
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Marco20valveT
Unregistered
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Marco20valveT
Unregistered
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Re: Rear ARB decision.
[Re: Ecrab]
#1160494
22/01/2011 23:39
22/01/2011 23:39
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Marco20valveT
Unregistered
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Marco20valveT
Unregistered
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Does not matter any way.
The car is Fu**ed.
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