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Back on 225/45/16s with a huge improvement
#1123877
31/10/2010 21:06
31/10/2010 21:06
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,091 Leicestershire
Joe78
OP
I need some sleep
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OP
I need some sleep
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,091
Leicestershire
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After selling my plus wheels with 225s on a while ago I've been using a set of stock 20vt rims with 205s on. As soon as I put them on, the car seemed to be far worse getting the power down to the road. Ever since the forged rebuild I'd always thought 'it may only be 315bhp, but I could put every one of those horses down to the road without any problems' I'd just nail it and it was away, yet when I changed tyres all that changed. If I floored it the wheels would spin a lot and then I'd get viscious weaving from one side to the other, losing grip here and there which really took some keeping under control. So on Friday I swapped back from Pirelli p6000 205/55/16s, to continental sport contact2 225/45/16 and the difference is amazing. I can't believe how much better she grips and puts the power down to the floor. I've also found a lot more grip in the wet. I won't be changing again.
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Re: Back on 225/45/16s with a huge improvement
[Re: Joe78]
#1123880
31/10/2010 21:11
31/10/2010 21:11
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Jintel
Unregistered
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Jintel
Unregistered
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I remember when I made the change on my first coupe running 291bhp. It made a hell of difference......must add that to my list of things to do on my new one.
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Re: Back on 225/45/16s with a huge improvement
[Re: Joe78]
#1123910
31/10/2010 21:47
31/10/2010 21:47
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 99 Lytham Lancs
NoGatsos
Club member 1974
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Club member 1974
Reaping the fruits
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 99
Lytham Lancs
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I replaced a worn pair of P-Zeros with some Conti Sport Contact 2s recently and noticed a big improvement in Traction and of course a massive improvement in the wet (although you'd expect that with good, brand new tyres). Funnily enough, the ride seems noticeably more compliant as well. However you do pay for all this and it will be interesting to see how they last. Overall they are certainly the best I've tried so far, from a dwindling choice at this tyre size, and a pleasant surprise from what I always considered to be a German Executive car Tyre.
SX no more!
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Re: Back on 225/45/16s with a huge improvement
[Re: NoGatsos]
#1123912
31/10/2010 21:58
31/10/2010 21:58
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duncan78
Unregistered
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duncan78
Unregistered
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I've got Conti Sport Contact 2s on myself, amazing confidence in the wet at high speeds, very planted and stable. I don't realise just how much till I go out in similar conditions in the Ford Ka
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Re: Back on 225/45/16s with a huge improvement
[Re: Jimbo]
#1123983
01/11/2010 00:46
01/11/2010 00:46
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jonone
Unregistered
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jonone
Unregistered
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your probably find the difference is in going from pirelli p6000 to sport contact 2 as much as its is the sizes.
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Re: Back on 225/45/16s with a huge improvement
[Re: Joe78]
#1124932
02/11/2010 17:16
02/11/2010 17:16
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RICHB
Unregistered
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RICHB
Unregistered
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and 225's definitely fit 20vt alloys?......
...anyone got a pic?
Last edited by RICHB; 02/11/2010 17:27.
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Re: Back on 225/45/16s with a huge improvement
[Re: ]
#1124943
02/11/2010 17:38
02/11/2010 17:38
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,694 Midlands
MCMike
Club member 2095
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Club member 2095
Forum is my job
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,694
Midlands
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Yes - the Plus's had them fitted as standard from the factory.
1972 Triumph Stag 1984 Alfasud TI 1999 Fiat Coupe Turbo LE 2005 350Z
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Re: Back on 225/45/16s with a huge improvement
[Re: MCMike]
#1124952
02/11/2010 17:55
02/11/2010 17:55
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RICHB
Unregistered
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RICHB
Unregistered
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Yes, but the plus alloys are a different size......
Last edited by RICHB; 02/11/2010 17:56.
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Re: Back on 225/45/16s with a huge improvement
[Re: ]
#1125345
03/11/2010 14:51
03/11/2010 14:51
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367 Staffordshire
Nigel
Forum veteran
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Forum veteran
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367
Staffordshire
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Yes, but the plus alloys are a different size...... No, they're not - all 20vt alloys are 7" x 16" I'd had good year eagle f 1s on 205s too and found them equally crap so deduced it must be the tyre size rather than brand. Definitely not - (Jimbo's been waiting for this ) - the width of a tyre has no bearing on the amount of grip I'd much rather run a good brand of 205 that even a mid-range brand of 225, never mind a budget tyre
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Re: Back on 225/45/16s with a huge improvement
[Re: Nigel]
#1125386
03/11/2010 15:30
03/11/2010 15:30
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cx105
Unregistered
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cx105
Unregistered
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Even the high end stuff have noticeable differences between them, just last week i switched from Potenzas to a set of new Michelin Pilot Sport 3's and they are awesome! Highly recommended.
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Re: Back on 225/45/16s with a huge improvement
[Re: Nigel]
#1125422
03/11/2010 16:30
03/11/2010 16:30
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,295 Sandhurst
Begbie
Ex El Presidente
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Ex El Presidente
I AM a Coop
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,295
Sandhurst
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Definitely not - (Jimbo's been waiting for this ) - the width of a tyre has no bearing on the amount of grip I still don't get this. So you're saying that a Lambo Diablo with 355 wide tyres has no more grip than a 2CV with a 165 wide tyre?
Your car is Usain Bolt with wellies
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Re: Back on 225/45/16s with a huge improvement
[Re: Begbie]
#1125424
03/11/2010 16:33
03/11/2010 16:33
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RICHB
Unregistered
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RICHB
Unregistered
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I still don't get this. So you're saying that a Lambo Diablo with 355 wide tyres has no more grip than a 2CV with a 165 wide tyre? You have done it now.......any minute now.... wait for it
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Re: Back on 225/45/16s with a huge improvement
[Re: ]
#1125489
03/11/2010 18:13
03/11/2010 18:13
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DaveM
Unregistered
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DaveM
Unregistered
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Yes, but the plus alloys are a different size...... Definitely the same, I had tyres swapped between a set of plus alloys and a set of 20vt alloys - no problem at all. Annoying as if I'd known I'd have gone for pilot sports rather than toyos
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Re: Back on 225/45/16s with a huge improvement
[Re: Begbie]
#1125594
03/11/2010 22:29
03/11/2010 22:29
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367 Staffordshire
Nigel
Forum veteran
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Forum veteran
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367
Staffordshire
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I still don't get this. So you're saying that a Lambo Diablo with 355 wide tyres has no more grip than a 2CV with a 165 wide tyre? No - what I'm saying is that putting 355 section tyres on the 2CV will not give it any more grip The Lambo has more grip than the 2CV because it weighs more (and lots of other stuff, such as better suspension geometry to keep the tyre perpendicular to the road, camber & castor settings, trail, toe etc etc)
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Re: Back on 225/45/16s with a huge improvement
[Re: Nigel]
#1125606
03/11/2010 22:52
03/11/2010 22:52
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yosko
Unregistered
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yosko
Unregistered
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its simple phisycs, 205 tyre will give better traction than 225 there is no 2 opinions about that. I test some diferent 205 on myne becase of destroyng them in roads of bulgaria. Conti sport 2 is best for now, barum its cheap crap but eagle F1 disapoited me. Now i have new michelin pilot but i will test them after winter.
Last edited by yosko; 03/11/2010 22:54.
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Re: Back on 225/45/16s with a huge improvement
[Re: ]
#1125633
03/11/2010 22:51
03/11/2010 22:51
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Mollymoo
Unregistered
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Mollymoo
Unregistered
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the difference in rolling radius between the two tyre sizes suggested is 22.5mm, which is fairly substantial so not great for gearing, etc. the tyre which is smaller in height (the standard 225/45) should technically enable marginally faster acceleration than the taller tyre. when it comes to handling the 225/45 is the factory fit tyre, so we can assume a certain amount of optimisation was done during the design and testing of the car to make that one more suitable. yes the wider 225 should theoretically offer better handling, but in reality a difference of 20mm on a car such as a coupe is infantessimal and the real benefits are felt by using a quality tyre specced to the manufacturers recommendation
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Re: Back on 225/45/16s with a huge improvement
[Re: Nigel]
#1125708
04/11/2010 03:11
04/11/2010 03:11
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,091 Leicestershire
Joe78
OP
I need some sleep
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OP
I need some sleep
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,091
Leicestershire
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waiting for this ) - the width of a tyre has no bearing on the amount of grip I'd much rather run a good brand of 205 that even a mid-range brand of 225, never mind a budget tyre Surely a wider tyre has a greater contact patch with the road, and therefore more grip? I'm probably wrong but you'd think that'd be the case. If it's not then would anyone explaining why? (somebodys chance to show off) I wouldn't touch budget tyres in any size. A car with as much power as even a standard 20vt (or 16vt) needs decent rubber under it. I did notice JBTs coupe at santa pod - 500bhp and mis-matched tyres, some budget ones. Surely not a great idea
Last edited by Joe78; 04/11/2010 03:13.
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Re: Back on 225/45/16s with a huge improvement
[Re: ]
#1125755
04/11/2010 10:31
04/11/2010 10:31
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367 Staffordshire
Nigel
Forum veteran
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Forum veteran
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367
Staffordshire
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the difference in rolling radius between the two tyre sizes suggested is 22.5mm, which is fairly substantial so not great for gearing, etc. Your calculator is broken The radius of a 205/50 tyre is 305.7mm, with a rolling circumference of 1,921mm The radius of a 225/45 tyre is 304.4mm with a rolling circumference of 1,913mm The difference in circumference is just 8mm, or 0.4% - the effective difference on the road is that the wheel will rotate three time more per mile I defy any one to be able to detect the difference
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Re: Back on 225/45/16s with a huge improvement
[Re: gj88]
#1125763
04/11/2010 10:46
04/11/2010 10:46
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suba
Unregistered
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suba
Unregistered
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Beat me to it.
P6000's? Really? Shocking tyre. Yep - very poor for performance. They are a hard wearing motorway tyre - I had them on my coupe when I bought it, and I found lots of excuses to wear them out and replace them.
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Re: Back on 225/45/16s with a huge improvement
[Re: Joe78]
#1125774
04/11/2010 11:15
04/11/2010 11:15
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Enforcer
Unregistered
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Enforcer
Unregistered
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waiting for this ) - the width of a tyre has no bearing on the amount of grip I'd much rather run a good brand of 205 that even a mid-range brand of 225, never mind a budget tyre Surely a wider tyre has a greater contact patch with the road, and therefore more grip? I'm probably wrong but you'd think that'd be the case. If it's not then would anyone explaining why? (somebodys chance to show off) Oh thank God!! Finally my chance to excel. I do hope I don't blow it! The grip is lateral resistance to slip: How much lateral force you can exert on the tyre before it skids. The grip is roughly calculated as the total downward force multiplied by the coefficient of static friction (whatever), so the area of surface contact doesn't directly come into the calculation. In other words, with a larger contact area, the force exerted per unit area is reduced, so the grip per unit area is also reduced proportionately. The total remains the same.
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Re: Back on 225/45/16s with a huge improvement
[Re: Joe78]
#1125833
04/11/2010 13:47
04/11/2010 13:47
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367 Staffordshire
Nigel
Forum veteran
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Forum veteran
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367
Staffordshire
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So why do F1 cars have big fat tyres if the width doesn't make any difference? Because the SHAPE of the contact patch does have an effect on handling - a wide (but short) contact patch gives better lateral grip than a long thin one Additionally, a formula1 car can do something that the vast majority of cars can't. There are actually only two ways to increase grip:- 1) increase the co-efficient of friction between the tyre and the road surface - this can be done by using a stickier compound of rubber or changing the road surface 2) Increase the weight of the car so that there's more weight acting on the contact patch(regardless of how big it is) Its No2 that F1 cars can achieve - they can effectively increase the weight on the contact patch by adding downforce - there is no difference between real added weight and aero downforce
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