How to make the 5 th gear longer ?is there some other gearbox that has longear gears?

Maybe some TD 2,5 fiat/alfa or something simillar ,,, but it is only idea without any confirmation

some ideas_?

I think the 8 valve Lancia Thema IE Turbo had the tallest gearing with a final drive of 2.944:1.

Fit a 20VT 6 speed box?

Ideas .. http://www.bacciromano.com/index.php?p=prodotti&l=eng&cat1=24&cat2=37&mar=4

Huh...$$$, what should be expected indeed...

yhm $$$ but you can see what are you looking for...

True...remember, few years ago, been asked 600E for one only in/out-toothed ring for daimler-steyr gearbox. And it seems the possibility to source exactly matching parts from other fiat-alfa-lancia car tends to zero.

the best thing is to fit the 6 speed but it isn possible...are there some lancia alfa,fiat parts to combine?

Not so great approval the 6 speeder though...imo

You can fit a 6 speed to a 16v, but there is a lot of work involved.

what kind of modifications?

Hubs, brakes, drive shaft, visco and wheels

i think that the flywheel is diferent or?

this will help

The 16v starter motor does fit, but needs to be ground down.
You will need to drill out one of the main fixing points on the engine.
As for the driveshafts, i never did figure out what would be needed, as i gave up with fitting it.

so i need a 20 vt flywheel and a clutch+driveshafts,gearlinkage,?why i ask about the flywheel because here in italy they tell me that its not possible because of the diferent flywheel teth...if i do it i will be the first in italy to mount the 6 speed..whats the rpm in 6th gear on highway at about 70/80 miles?

No, you keep the 16v flywheel, else the starter motor teeth wont line up on the flywheel

ok thanks 4 the info> are these good to replace the 5th gear >36/33 turbo /primary drive >11/39
35/32 turbo
37/33 aspirated
39/34 aspirated

CROMA> Tipo>
32/28
37/33
39/34
46/35 38/31
39/30 39/34
39/30 52/43
38/29 34/27
47/34 39/31
43/31
36/33
35/32
43/35
30/37


what would be the best ?

can someone post the gear ratios of the original gears and final drive cant find them...i think i would put a thema 5 th gear diesel if its possible..are the gearboxes similar or?i intend just to swap the 2 5th gear teeth

You can check it in eper for example :-)

if you download the following programme it will allow you to put in the different gear ratios so you can see what difference altering the gearing will make
http://www.locost7.info/gearcalc.php

already have the program.calculating around ...i have been on eper only can se the thema t.d. ratios..cant see the alfa ratios..and calculating the original final drive off t16 from eper is wrong..just need to know are the gearboxes similar from alfa ,lancia?

its seems that the gears would go just fine in these ratios >tipo td,thema td,multipla td,bravo/brava td,croma td,,if someone knows if these gearboxes are similar,,??i think the 5th gear can be changed by just taking of the wheel and the gearbox cap that has the 5 th on the external side..someone?dont wanna pay 500 euros for the bacci-romano gears

Petrol Thema is definitely similar/same box. I believe the Croma and Tipo are not similar (more similar to the Beta box) and so I don't think you can swap components between the two types.

I don't know anything about the diesel gearboxes and their compatibility though.

heard from a friend here..he swaped from a multipla td but made a swap in a coupe aspirated 1.8..doubt we have the same gearboxes?

...if somebody have a disassembled gearbox and could take accurate measurements of the mentioned gear, would be some starting point...

A diesel Thema/Croma has the longest final gear I believe. I used it on my friend's Thema 2000, he has smth like 150kmh at 3000 rpm on 5th.

thanks,so you have changed just the 5 th gear not the final drive...?

be careful you don't use to long a gear, something like the above would be 31mph per 1000rpm giving a jump of over 10mph per 1000rpm from 4th to 5th

to be honest i think the coupe would struggle to pull much over 28mph per 1000rpm as a gear ratio

think of your torque curve before you go for to long a gear

i dont think it would be a problem with future 320hp
plus it has already got plenty of torque from the low rpm ..i will be using the 5th gear as an economy gear ..im not racing so ..until 4th gear you have already broken the speed limit along time:)..some n/a motors have the 5th long economy gear with less hp and torq and worse wind resistance

if you put a bigger turbo presumably to get 320bhp torque is likely to come in even later, if your turbo doesn't start to boost until maybe just before 3000rpm, as the engine will have a greater load on it, then with that proposed gearing you will have to be doing at least 80 to 90mph before you are on boost

not trying to put you off but i really wouldn't gear the car for more than about 28mph per 1000rpm otherwise you will be changing down to 4th just to go up the slightest incline and will ruin drivability

on the 20vt turbo on the 6 speed box fiat geared it for 27.5mph per 1000rpm in 6th a jump of only 3mph per 1000rpm from 5th, presumably they did this because if they have geared it any higher it wouldn't have pulled it comfortably and that's on a standard 20vt which will have more torque lower down than a 16vt with a bigger turbo on it

will try if not good,,il change it back

If you've got C530 gearbox, there are a couple of interchangeable gears as spare parts...

PiZ

Hi Piz dont know the exact nuber of the gearbox..you cold help

Yes.

If I am right, your Coupé it's a 16VT.
It has a C503.5.29 gearbox, with interchangeable 3rd, 4th and 5th gears on both primary and secondary shaft....


PiZ

would need a longear 5th gear ratio ...i think you cold help

gearbox= C503 Coupe 16vt ,
Coupé 2.0i 20V Turbo from1996/07 a1997/10 gearbox=C503

from> 1997/10 gearbox=C530.5.31 to 2000


Marea 2.4 TD from 1996/07 a1999/02 C530.5.31 = 29/38 = 0763 RAPP, RAPP 29/41 = 0.707

Stilo 1.9JTD 126ch k937A4.000 from> 2004/01 to C530.5.31
Stilo 1.9JTD 8V 120ch k939A1.000 from> 2006/11 to C530.5.31
Stilo 1.9JTD 16V from> 2004/01 to C530.5.31
Thesis 2.0i Turbo 20V from> 2002/09 to C530.5.31
Thesis 2.4i 20V by> 2002/09 to C530.5.31
Thesis 2.4JTD by 150ch> 2002/09 to C530.5.31
146 1.9JTD 100ch by RAPP 1999/03 a2001/06 C530.5.31 = 29/38 = 0763
147 1.9JTD 115ch from 2000/10 a2004/09 C530.5.31
147 1.9JTD 16V 126ch dall2003/09 a2004/09 C530.5.31
147 1.9JTD 16V 136ch from 2002/12 a2004/09 C530.5.31
147 1.9JTD 115ch dall2004/10 to C530.5.31
147 1.9JTD 16V dall2004/10 to C530.5.31
147 1.9JTDM dall2004/10 to C530.5.31
156 1.9JTD 115ch from 2003/04 to C530.5.31
156 1.9JTD 16V dall2003/04 to C530.5.35
156 1.9JTD Base from 2003/04 to C530.5.35
156 2.4JTD 10V from 2003/04 to C530.5.31
166 2.4JTD by 1998/10 a2003/09 C530.5.31
GT 1.9JTD 16V Dhaka in 2003/09 C530.5.31


here piz I found the models that have the same or similar gearbox depends if its a 5 speed or 6 speed gearbox... can be of help to someone who has the 20v turbo not 100% sure for the 6 speed on the list .best look for the cars with 5 speed diesel on the list if you have the 5 gear coupe


for the 6-speed coupe I think you need to look the 6 speed models on the list to have a more longer-6th gear


here a list for t16>


Alfa 155 2.5TD 1993/07 a1995/03 C503> 0811
164 2.5TD C503 1987/07 a1992/09 ???????
164 2.5TD C503 1992/09 a1998/09 ??????
Croma 2.0TDiD, 2.5D, 2.5TD C503 1991/01 a1996/08> 35/46 = 0760,
34/47 = 0.723
Thema 2400TD 1984/10 a1988/09 C503 ???????
Thema 2.5TDs THE 1992/09 a1994/11 C503 ?????


I'm not sure but I am close to 100%

here is a program to do the calculations> www.locost7.info/gearcalc.php

here makes you see what car uses what gearbox the Fiat, Alfa, and various
http://armtek.ru/downloads/ntn-snr/N...lutch_2007.pdf

That now looks promising So you mean every gear set for one of the listed cars goes as direct fit to the (identic) coupe box?

No guys, wait !

As I said to Nicola in our Club forum, that list doesn't mean that you can exchange gears so easily.

For every car model you have to look at every modification Fiat made and the year in which that modification was applied.
There are a number of little changes that could make gears swap impossible, without replacing other parts (syncros, sleeves...etc).
The better thing is to look at gear CADs, if you have access to them.

For the C530.6 you cannot exchange gears without replacing the primary shaft. But, doing this, you mess up all the gearset.

PiZ

I knew it was very afraid something like that will come out in some moment:) thou, having the 530.5

Has anyone got the transmission list available ? Link is dead.

no... but i have put a lancia K 16v turbo 5th gear and got 2600-2700 rpm 37/30 gear count 0.811

i have an set of spare longer 5th gears 0.811 ratio if someone needs one pm me