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Re: Lack Of traction
[Re: Ecrab]
#1084223
10/08/2010 15:41
10/08/2010 15:41
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RMJ
Unregistered
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RMJ
Unregistered
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Re: Lack Of traction
[Re: ]
#1084231
10/08/2010 15:56
10/08/2010 15:56
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Marco20valveT
Unregistered
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Marco20valveT
Unregistered
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i would try some camberbolts set at -1.5 degree's and see how you get on.
you could get a 22mm (Or bigger) rear anti roll bar.
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Re: Lack Of traction
[Re: Ecrab]
#1084840
11/08/2010 19:42
11/08/2010 19:42
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,390 Essex
Trappy
Forum is my life
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Forum is my life
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,390
Essex
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Two questions.
1. What are these 'other cars' you're comparing it to?
2. What suspension/ chassis mods are you running?
F****** b****** thing...
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Re: Lack Of traction
[Re: Ecrab]
#1084991
11/08/2010 22:44
11/08/2010 22:44
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ktm450exc
Unregistered
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ktm450exc
Unregistered
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never been on a track but would imagine what holds true in mx is same on track with a car
if you come into a corner wrong and come out in the wrong part of the motors power or the wrong gear you will spin on exit trying to get the power down
some bikes (my big 4st) i need to carry a lot of speed in and around the corner and be gentle on the throttle on the way out always with some throttle to keep my wheels turning all the way round the corner..i have done all my braking and am off them before corner and on throttle slightly all the way round to aid traction(no big on off business) i see some come stonking in brake hard gear no throttle at all or still on brakes in corner then try to accelerate out and woder why they spin up and go sideways
there must be something like this but car related if you know what i mean to work your way round quicker without spinning on the way out
can someone translate that to car for me
Last edited by ktm450exc; 11/08/2010 22:45.
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Re: Lack Of traction
[Re: Jimbo]
#1085004
11/08/2010 22:55
11/08/2010 22:55
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ktm450exc
Unregistered
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ktm450exc
Unregistered
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whats the point of coilovers if they dont work on track? and if they dont what does
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Re: Lack Of traction
[Re: Jimbo]
#1085109
12/08/2010 09:00
12/08/2010 09:00
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MattW
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MattW
Unregistered
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How old are the wishbones and do you have a lower strut brace fitted?
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Re: Lack Of traction
[Re: MattM]
#1085131
12/08/2010 09:42
12/08/2010 09:42
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Marco20valveT
Unregistered
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Marco20valveT
Unregistered
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Tyres - if your doing a few track days, get some track tyres Brilliant point!! get some R888's! i cant believe how much grip they really give you!!
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Re: Lack Of traction
[Re: ]
#1085198
12/08/2010 11:47
12/08/2010 11:47
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ktm450exc
Unregistered
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ktm450exc
Unregistered
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jimbo i am glad you said that as i found the coilovers on my le when over 120 very bouncy enough to make me back off even on the motorway..i have the stronger springs that are supposeed to rectify this but dont want to fit them to find its not much better i only mentioned this last week as when i had standard dampers and eibachs i could get 160+ without ever feeling the suspension make me nervous
in this case what would you think the best set up for fast road /track?
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Re: Lack Of traction
[Re: ]
#1085203
12/08/2010 11:55
12/08/2010 11:55
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Marco20valveT
Unregistered
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Marco20valveT
Unregistered
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one of the best set up that work and are in an affordable budget would be the billy and Eibach kit... but if you have a grand or 2... Gaz coil overs
Last edited by Marco20valveT; 12/08/2010 11:56.
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Re: Lack Of traction
[Re: ]
#1085251
12/08/2010 13:04
12/08/2010 13:04
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ktm450exc
Unregistered
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ktm450exc
Unregistered
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i know about the billies eibachs but are we saying this is the best without spending big? what about osravs etc? i am not too bothered about the ride quality on road but i want to drive it as agressively as possible on track days so dont want something thats is going to be overwhelmed nor do i want to bounce to the point of backing off ..is there anything that you (or anyone knows of to suit)?
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Re: Lack Of traction
[Re: Jimbo]
#1085390
12/08/2010 16:38
12/08/2010 16:38
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 684 Derby
Ecrab
OP
Enjoying the ride
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OP
Enjoying the ride
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 684
Derby
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Is there any other make of insert that will fit the FK strut. It seems a waste to have to replace the complete set-up
Last edited by Ecrab; 12/08/2010 16:39.
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Re: Lack Of traction
[Re: Jimbo]
#1085465
12/08/2010 19:28
12/08/2010 19:28
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ktm450exc
Unregistered
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ktm450exc
Unregistered
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ok so whats your advice here sell my fks and buy what?
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Re: Lack Of traction
[Re: MattM]
#1085634
12/08/2010 23:21
12/08/2010 23:21
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ktm450exc
Unregistered
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ktm450exc
Unregistered
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i have read a lot of the threads and am aware of the many discussions i will just ask what is the best set up say for under £700 for track i am happy to have bouncy road if they will really deliver on the track ..if they are only mediocre i will get what is better
nigel have you driven with fks and you think the osrav eibachs are better on track?
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Re: Lack Of traction
[Re: Hyperlink]
#1085657
13/08/2010 00:01
13/08/2010 00:01
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,728 N.E Scotland
mattB
Club member 6
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Club member 6
I AM a Coop
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,728
N.E Scotland
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I paid a good bit of money for my coilovers but worth it as far as I'm concerned. Compared to previous setup the car feels much better and can can get a good bit more drive out of corners because they dont bounce.
Death-rattle-tastic
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Re: Lack Of traction
[Re: mattB]
#1085661
13/08/2010 00:23
13/08/2010 00:23
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ktm450exc
Unregistered
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ktm450exc
Unregistered
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Re: Lack Of traction
[Re: ]
#1085662
13/08/2010 00:24
13/08/2010 00:24
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ktm450exc
Unregistered
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ktm450exc
Unregistered
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ive read it but am still none the wiser as to which is the best on track osravs eibachs or billies eibachs or whatever mods i can make to my fks
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Re: Lack Of traction
[Re: Jimbo]
#1085669
13/08/2010 00:59
13/08/2010 00:59
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Paul_H
Unregistered
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Paul_H
Unregistered
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looks to me like its all down to money.
Osravs and billies are the top of the range for separate springs and dampers.
coilovers on the other hand seem to be a much more expensive proposition, to get the same quality of ride/handling you still need to go for top of the range i.e leda
Or have I read all these threads wrong?
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Re: Lack Of traction
[Re: ]
#1085676
13/08/2010 01:56
13/08/2010 01:56
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ktm450exc
Unregistered
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ktm450exc
Unregistered
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i dont seem to be able to find a seller for osravs
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Re: Lack Of traction
[Re: Jimbo]
#1085785
13/08/2010 10:50
13/08/2010 10:50
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jonone
Unregistered
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jonone
Unregistered
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Re: Lack Of traction
[Re: ]
#1085789
13/08/2010 10:55
13/08/2010 10:55
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jonone
Unregistered
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jonone
Unregistered
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If I would do it again I would not bother with coilovers, I think the osravs and eibach is probably the best all round handling package. In the case of traction you want the front as soft as possible and the rear stiffer to stop weight transfer. Standard springs are probably the best for traction but then you have the issue of roll. Camber is good for handling,but to much camber will actually give you less traction as the contact patch is less. First port of call has got to be tyres, stickier the better. Then i would look at roll bars for the rear,the stiffer you make the rear the less grip it has, which means the grip transfers to the front. But if you over do it your have lots of lift of oversteer and you might find yourself in a bush!
Last edited by jonone; 13/08/2010 11:36.
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Re: Lack Of traction
[Re: ]
#1085832
13/08/2010 11:50
13/08/2010 11:50
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ktm450exc
Unregistered
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ktm450exc
Unregistered
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i dont mind shooting into a bush here and there
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Re: Lack Of traction
[Re: Jimbo]
#1085926
13/08/2010 14:26
13/08/2010 14:26
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jonone
Unregistered
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jonone
Unregistered
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I am used to the look of the std ride height now, In the back of my mind i no its purposeful and it means you can run a lower brace without to much hassle, When I ran eibachs and a lower brace speed bumps etc just did my head in. I think the above set up with upper and lower braces and camber bolts is what i would do if i was starting again.
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Re: Lack Of traction
[Re: Nigel]
#1086101
13/08/2010 18:37
13/08/2010 18:37
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ktm450exc
Unregistered
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ktm450exc
Unregistered
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where did you get yours nigel and how much did you pay? if you don't mind my asking
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Re: Lack Of traction
[Re: ]
#1086219
13/08/2010 21:53
13/08/2010 21:53
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ktm450exc
Unregistered
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ktm450exc
Unregistered
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i have just found out why my fks are so bad they are 2 spring sizes wrong!
i have a set in jamies car which apparently were not bouncy but firm they had the 110 springs and werre his road and track set up and were fine
on the le theres coilovers front and eibach lowering springs rear with standard shock i was given a 100nm (not yet fitted)set of springs for the front which are the one up from the ones in it so no wonder the front is so bouncy its way off on spring rate!
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Re: Lack Of traction
[Re: Jimbo]
#1086287
14/08/2010 01:07
14/08/2010 01:07
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ktm450exc
Unregistered
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ktm450exc
Unregistered
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ok i accept that.. but the ones set up properly with correct springs and bravo top mounts feel great but i have not had chance to drive it fast as only earlier been swapped over will try tomorrow and see what the difference is
Last edited by ktm450exc; 14/08/2010 01:08.
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Re: Lack Of traction
[Re: Easy]
#1086299
14/08/2010 02:45
14/08/2010 02:45
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ktm450exc
Unregistered
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ktm450exc
Unregistered
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the fks were on the le i bought from spee just fronts rear has eibach springs standard dampers but one is shot.. they bounced quite a bit but he gave me stronger springs to go in them which were 100s or so he said..but i have not yet fitted
the other car i have which is jamies old one with fk silverlines on have the 110 springs and correct top mounts and are a full set of 4 these seem to be firm but great cant say too much as havent yet tried them at speed or with all 4 on a car but i will as this is how they were meant to be and i have been making issue of bounce when i have not had them set up right and one is moving nerly an inch back and forth to the point where i can feel it when letting the clutch out ..so really its no way to test suspension
Last edited by ktm450exc; 14/08/2010 02:49.
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Re: Lack Of traction
[Re: Ecrab]
#1086347
14/08/2010 10:18
14/08/2010 10:18
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ktm450exc
Unregistered
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ktm450exc
Unregistered
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i cant really comment yet as upto now mine have wrong springs and one (front right) is broken so all i have said so far is realy not a fair reflection ..i am taking the car out again with the ones from the car i have with correct springs (which i bought as a none runner )
i know a lot of people have them and have no complaints that i am aware of ...jimbo feels they are underdamped and i see exactly what he means but i want to try them properly set up anyway thn i will know
Last edited by ktm450exc; 14/08/2010 10:21.
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Re: Lack Of traction
[Re: Ecrab]
#1086588
14/08/2010 22:16
14/08/2010 22:16
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,706 Gone
Jimbo
Je suis un Coupé
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Je suis un Coupé
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,706
Gone
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They came with 80Nmm springs from FK, the 100's were sent out after complaints of them being dangerous.
Ecrab, if it was over damped, the 80Nmm springs would feel very hard with little movement, they didn't, they bounced and almost became a resonant bouncing where the front was pogoing down the road, that's under damped as the spring isn't being controlled.
The 100Nmm spring was sent out, this has a few effects, it changes the frequency of the bouncing, it totally over powers the damper, it reduces the comfort as you have little movement in the suspension. Can you push down on the slam panel and get any movement in the suspension ?
The Bravo top mount does add to the comfort of the FK's, I pinched the idea from KW as they use them and adaped the Bravo parts to fit with the FK's. I just feel the FK's are a bit of a bodge. They aren't adjustable for damping, you can only adjust the ride height and how many time do you honestly do that, once or twice at the most. So what's the point in them ? For the money you can get a good damper that isn't a compromise.
If you've go them already then fit the Bravo top mount and they ride ok with the 100Nmm springs, just too bouncy for me on uneven roads, they make you slower than a standard setup.
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Re: Lack Of traction
[Re: Jimbo]
#1086631
15/08/2010 02:05
15/08/2010 02:05
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ktm450exc
Unregistered
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ktm450exc
Unregistered
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the bravo top mounts make a massive differene they feel much better than standard thats for sure ..the harder springs are not too bad after having the wrong ones in it certainly keeps the car flat cornering rather than bouncing.. its firm though but i would say they would be good on a track
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Re: Lack Of traction
[Re: Ecrab]
#1086766
15/08/2010 16:30
15/08/2010 16:30
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ktm450exc
Unregistered
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ktm450exc
Unregistered
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have you done 140 on an undulating road? its only when giving it some...i have a set of the correct springs i can sell you should you want them
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Re: Lack Of traction
[Re: ]
#1086768
15/08/2010 16:36
15/08/2010 16:36
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ktm450exc
Unregistered
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ktm450exc
Unregistered
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jimbo i understand totally mate and what can i say except fair enough.. but if you are buying a set second hand for £300 or the like with the bravo mounts its not a bad ride and definately far better than standard for fast cornering and track daying..so at that money i would buy them over standard everytime...the fact they could be better is in no doubt and if i was spending the £600+ these cost new i would buy something else
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