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Re: Speeding!
[Re: Hyperlink]
#1614579
16/01/2018 21:04
16/01/2018 21:04
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 353 Leicester
Dan
Club member 1124
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Club member 1124
Making a profit
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 353
Leicester
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Just to add been caught myself and done a speed awareness. It was scary how may attending could it even get the speed limits for various roads right.
When I did one none of them could identify a dual carriageway!
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Re: Speeding!
[Re: Dan]
#1614584
16/01/2018 21:21
16/01/2018 21:21
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,244 Watford, Herts.
Hyperlink
Forum is my life
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Forum is my life
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,244
Watford, Herts.
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Just to add been caught myself and done a speed awareness. It was scary how may attending could it even get the speed limits for various roads right.
When I did one none of them could identify a dual carriageway! It’s scary how little some know/care about driving isn’t it. It really brought it home to me. Especially those who drove for a living.
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Re: Speeding!
[Re: AnnieMac]
#1614594
17/01/2018 09:07
17/01/2018 09:07
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Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,621 Leicester UK
Ballypete
Club Member 1578
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Club Member 1578
My life on the forum
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,621
Leicester UK
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Hi Annie, My understanding of the likelihood of process here is that you might not get a speed awareness course and it will be £100 fine and 3 points. This is because the NPCC guidance (formerly ACPO) says that in a 30mph limit speed awareness course is offered up to 35mph (10% above + 2mph as some have already pointed out). It is summons for 50mph and above, so the middle ground is FPN-fine and points. Different areas might interpret the guidance differently in line with the local road safety partnership view, so it's a case of wait and see. If the comments from the other forum members are a measure of thumb for the general motorist then the understanding and attitudes towards speeding have definitely changed for the better I find that peoples views in general are based on their life experiences. For example many years ago as a young in service cop I also personally thought that some road traffic law/speeding enforcement was a bit petty due to having been caught out a few times myself before I joined. This view changed forever the first time I had to deliver a death message to a mum and tell her that her husband and 3yr old son would not be coming home due to a speeding driver.
Doris the 1998 Portofino Blue 20V and Zoe the 1999 Alfa Romeo 916 Spider Bog standard needn't be boring...
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Re: Speeding!
[Re: Ballypete]
#1614606
17/01/2018 16:45
17/01/2018 16:45
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,390 Essex
Trappy
Forum is my life
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Forum is my life
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,390
Essex
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My understanding of the likelihood of process here is that you might not get a speed awareness course and it will be £100 fine and 3 points.
This is because the NPCC guidance (formerly ACPO) says that in a 30mph limit speed awareness course is offered up to 35mph (10% above + 2mph as some have already pointed out). I was offered a speed awareness course after being caught at 79mph on dual carriageway. £100 for me too. I can also say it didn't 'open my eyes' in the slighest. Quite the opposite in fact... Funnily enough, they weren't interested in my braking distance spreadsheet along with quoted evidence in the form of mgazine road test logging data... The argument for reversing into parking spaces was also batted away. What a load of crap that it
F****** b****** thing...
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Re: Speeding!
[Re: Trappy]
#1614609
17/01/2018 17:21
17/01/2018 17:21
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Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,621 Leicester UK
Ballypete
Club Member 1578
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Club Member 1578
My life on the forum
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,621
Leicester UK
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My understanding of the likelihood of process here is that you might not get a speed awareness course and it will be £100 fine and 3 points.
This is because the NPCC guidance (formerly ACPO) says that in a 30mph limit speed awareness course is offered up to 35mph (10% above + 2mph as some have already pointed out). I was offered a speed awareness course after being caught at 79mph on dual carriageway. £100 for me too. I can also say it didn't 'open my eyes' in the slighest. Quite the opposite in fact... Funnily enough, they weren't interested in my braking distance spreadsheet along with quoted evidence in the form of mgazine road test logging data... The argument for reversing into parking spaces was also batted away. What a load of crap that it The threshold changes depending on the particular speed limit when the offence takes place...
Doris the 1998 Portofino Blue 20V and Zoe the 1999 Alfa Romeo 916 Spider Bog standard needn't be boring...
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Re: Speeding!
[Re: Blueboyracer]
#1614624
17/01/2018 21:09
17/01/2018 21:09
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 826 Kent
cyborg7
Club member 1400
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Club member 1400
Enjoying the ride
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 826
Kent
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No one likes getting fined or receiving points which may affect future insurance quotes, but speed kills - I do not think any of us can argue about that. Unfortunately I can. My view is that sometimes it's safe to go over the limit and sometimes it's not. It's inappropriate speed that kills. Sometimes going 30mph in a 30mph zone is completely inappropriate and unsafe, but that doesn't stop some people doing it anyway on the basis that they're within the limit. I was nicked 30 years ago (having just left the m25 down onto the m20 junction) at just over 100. I'm not defending such behaviour and rightly got the book thrown at me (young and stupid and all that), but given it was perfect weather, dry road, daylight, with visibility of well over a mile ahead, no-one around*, then I don't see that as less 'safe' as speeding in a 30mph zone that comes with all the hazards of a built up area.
Last edited by cyborg7; 17/01/2018 21:10. Reason: edit: * apart from the blue light in the rear view mirror...
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Re: Speeding!
[Re: cyborg7]
#1614648
18/01/2018 09:10
18/01/2018 09:10
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Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,621 Leicester UK
Ballypete
Club Member 1578
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Club Member 1578
My life on the forum
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,621
Leicester UK
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No one likes getting fined or receiving points which may affect future insurance quotes, but speed kills - I do not think any of us can argue about that. Unfortunately I can. My view is that sometimes it's safe to go over the limit and sometimes it's not. It's inappropriate speed that kills. Sometimes going 30mph in a 30mph zone is completely inappropriate and unsafe, but that doesn't stop some people doing it anyway on the basis that they're within the limit. I was nicked 30 years ago (having just left the m25 down onto the m20 junction) at just over 100. I'm not defending such behaviour and rightly got the book thrown at me (young and stupid and all that), but given it was perfect weather, dry road, daylight, with visibility of well over a mile ahead, no-one around*, then I don't see that as less 'safe' as speeding in a 30mph zone that comes with all the hazards of a built up area. Unfortunately there is no room for the 'reasonable person' view (common sense) with speeding- as it is what is an 'Absolute' offence so there is no mens rea (mental element) required alongside the actus reus (the act itself). The prosecution only have to prove beyond reasonable doubt that you were driving a motor vehicle on a road or other public place in excess of the speed limit. So no matter how reasonable an individual thinks it is the law doesn't...
Doris the 1998 Portofino Blue 20V and Zoe the 1999 Alfa Romeo 916 Spider Bog standard needn't be boring...
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Re: Speeding!
[Re: Ballypete]
#1614666
18/01/2018 14:13
18/01/2018 14:13
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 649 UK
Clintos
Club member 2040
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Club member 2040
Enjoying the ride
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 649
UK
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My understanding of the likelihood of process here is that you might not get a speed awareness course and it will be £100 fine and 3 points.
This is because the NPCC guidance (formerly ACPO) says that in a 30mph limit speed awareness course is offered up to 35mph (10% above + 2mph as some have already pointed out). I was offered a speed awareness course after being caught at 79mph on dual carriageway. £100 for me too. I can also say it didn't 'open my eyes' in the slighest. Quite the opposite in fact... Funnily enough, they weren't interested in my braking distance spreadsheet along with quoted evidence in the form of mgazine road test logging data... The argument for reversing into parking spaces was also batted away. What a load of crap that it The threshold changes depending on the particular speed limit when the offence takes place... The threshold changes depending on police force too. The tolerances given are only guidelines and many police forces have or are considering dropping them and prosecuting for 1mph over the limit. A load of bollocks I say but would be an expensive exercise defending it in court
Boooooooooost!!!
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Re: Speeding!
[Re: Master_Mariner]
#1614677
18/01/2018 17:40
18/01/2018 17:40
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 11,159 ,
samsite999
I AM a Coop
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I AM a Coop
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 11,159
,
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Annie, Their interest in this is solely your money.
Sorry, I don't believe this, if it was there would be no speed awareness course, they would just make you pony up the money. Having done a speed awareness course not so long ago, it did give me real pause for thought. The one guy was an ex cop who did his time on as a road traffic cop. I think with anything you get out what you are prepared to put in, if you go in which a crap attitude you will get nothing from the day. I found the day very useful as a refresher to everything we should already know about recognising speed limits, observations, impact of speeding and it was amazing how many different replies were given to simple whats the speed on this road questions. Im not trying to say its the most fun I could have had for half a day and about £100 quid. But it was a eye opener and I have slowed down
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Re: Speeding!
[Re: samsite999]
#1614685
18/01/2018 18:55
18/01/2018 18:55
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 16,603 Corridor of Uncertainty
Jim_Clennell
Forum veteran
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Forum veteran
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 16,603
Corridor of Uncertainty
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Annie, Their interest in this is solely your money.
Sorry, I don't believe this, if it was there would be no speed awareness course, they would just make you pony up the money. Having done a speed awareness course not so long ago, it did give me real pause for thought. The one guy was an ex cop who did his time on as a road traffic cop. I think with anything you get out what you are prepared to put in, if you go in which a crap attitude you will get nothing from the day. I found the day very useful as a refresher to everything we should already know about recognising speed limits, observations, impact of speeding and it was amazing how many different replies were given to simple whats the speed on this road questions. Im not trying to say its the most fun I could have had for half a day and about £100 quid. But it was a eye opener and I have slowed down This was my experience. I found it very interesting and it significantly altered my approach to speed and speeding. People who attend these courses with a closed-minded, know-it-all attitude and attempt to justify why it is OK to speed are, paradoxically, the ones who gain least yet need educating the most.
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Re: Speeding!
[Re: AnnieMac]
#1614701
19/01/2018 09:13
19/01/2018 09:13
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 869 Germany
neil_r
Enjoying the ride
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Enjoying the ride
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 869
Germany
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Being caught for speeding is crap, especially if it was not by much. However, it is an indication that we are less aware of what we are doing or intentionally taking a higher risk. I was on a safety training course a couple of years ago and one of the things we we tried out was stopping from different speeds. The reference was set with a 50 km/h stop. The speed was then raised to 70 km/h. The car went through the 50 km/h stop point at 20 km/h. When you physically see how far you still have to go before you actually stop it really does make you drive more carefully wherever there is a higher concentration of risks such as in town. Defensive driving and a bit less speed does improve safety by a very noticable and critical margin. A nice knock on effect is that others think you drive better as you seem to have time to deal with everything which is because you actually do. I'm trying to get that across to my son but that is proving hard
1997 20V 2000 V6 manual S-Type and 2011 5.0 XKR 2016 Tucson 1.6T AWD 2018 Mazda2 GT
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Re: Speeding!
[Re: samsite999]
#1614714
19/01/2018 13:44
19/01/2018 13:44
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 978 Behind Enemy Lines
Master_Mariner
Club member 583
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Club member 583
Enjoying the ride
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 978
Behind Enemy Lines
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Annie, Their interest in this is solely your money.
Sorry, I don't believe this, if it was there would be no speed awareness course, they would just make you pony up the money. Having done a speed awareness course not so long ago, it did give me real pause for thought. The one guy was an ex cop who did his time on as a road traffic cop. I think with anything you get out what you are prepared to put in, if you go in which a crap attitude you will get nothing from the day. I found the day very useful as a refresher to everything we should already know about recognising speed limits, observations, impact of speeding and it was amazing how many different replies were given to simple whats the speed on this road questions. Im not trying to say its the most fun I could have had for half a day and about £100 quid. But it was a eye opener and I have slowed down Wether you believe it or not- its true. If its not about the money and was about the education they could make the course mandatory and lower the costs. They do neither. Pure, profit. Seem to recall last time I looked they made about 54 million a year from it- and they keep every single penny. Speeding kills. so does gardening. Its just Gardeners Question Time haven't found a way to issue tickets yet and make money. If even a traffic cop is being processed for funds- the average punter has little chance to escape the fee's. Safe driving all, MM
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Re: Speeding!
[Re: Master_Mariner]
#1614717
19/01/2018 14:01
19/01/2018 14:01
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 11,159 ,
samsite999
I AM a Coop
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I AM a Coop
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 11,159
,
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Annie, Their interest in this is solely your money.
Sorry, I don't believe this, if it was there would be no speed awareness course, they would just make you pony up the money. Having done a speed awareness course not so long ago, it did give me real pause for thought. The one guy was an ex cop who did his time on as a road traffic cop. I think with anything you get out what you are prepared to put in, if you go in which a crap attitude you will get nothing from the day. I found the day very useful as a refresher to everything we should already know about recognising speed limits, observations, impact of speeding and it was amazing how many different replies were given to simple whats the speed on this road questions. Im not trying to say its the most fun I could have had for half a day and about £100 quid. But it was a eye opener and I have slowed down Wether you believe it or not- its true. If its not about the money and was about the education they could make the course mandatory and lower the costs. They do neither. Pure, profit. Seem to recall last time I looked they made about 54 million a year from it- and they keep every single penny. Speeding kills. so does gardening. Its just Gardeners Question Time haven't found a way to issue tickets yet and make money. If even a traffic cop is being processed for funds- the average punter has little chance to escape the fee's. Safe driving all, MM There is more than one way to skin a cat... Education is one, however most of us also recognise there are pretty serious financial consequences to being caught speeding. If there was no deterrent financially then people would continue to do it. Continue to speed? well we will give you points, fine you, your insurance goes up and ultimately if you carry on, we will take your ability to drive away. I hate getting done speeding as much as the next person but I see no other reasonable way for a deterrent to be made. You made an argument about some speed limits not being appropriate, The limit is NOT a target, its a max tolerance of the speed you have been advised is safe in this area to cover all hours of the day/time/weather variables. If you however decide to do 30mph in a 30mph where the conditions are inappropriate, you could be done under a number of motoring offences CD20 Driving without reasonable consideration for other road users 3 to 9 CD30 Driving without due care and attention or without reasonable consideration for other road users as to where the money goes: The money is divided up into: Paying for the cost of the course to the course provider. Restoring the costs of processing the offender from detection to disposal of the case to the police force. A contribution towards the national database. A contribution towards the administrative and business support arrangements for the national regime. A contribution towards course development, evaluation, monitoring, and research. Any additional funds are given to the Road Safety Trust. I know I wont change your mind, I can at least offer some points you may want to consider.
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Re: Speeding!
[Re: Master_Mariner]
#1614731
19/01/2018 15:35
19/01/2018 15:35
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 11,159 ,
samsite999
I AM a Coop
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I AM a Coop
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 11,159
,
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Hey Samsite, And I appreciate your point of view on this too. lets leave it with me hoping no-one gets a ticket for speeding and we are all safe and within the law out there. Thanks, that's why I like this place, I also respect your opinion based on experience. Agreed with the no more tickets please!
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Re: Speeding!
[Re: Blueboyracer]
#1614732
19/01/2018 16:14
19/01/2018 16:14
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,700 burning oil in the alfa
whatmoretyres
Forum is my job
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Forum is my job
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,700
burning oil in the alfa
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In this case we are not talking about motorway speeds or even A roads - we are talking about 36 in a 30 limit.
That 36 miles and hour (if accurately measured) could quite easily have been approaching 40mph on the speedometer in the car.
This - not a lot of sympathy I'm afraid.
Smart Fitness and GPS seller
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Re: Speeding!
[Re: whatmoretyres]
#1614747
20/01/2018 00:15
20/01/2018 00:15
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,645
JKD
Forum is my job
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Forum is my job
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,645
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You're approaching a speed camera. According to your speedometer, you're driving at the speed limit. The driver behind you is driving really close to you, flashing their lights, jumping up and down in their seat, making aggressive expressions, wanting you to speed up. Is it because... A) Your speedometer is vastly overstating your speed. In which case why don't they just overtake your car? B) Their speedometer is vastly understating their speed. In which case why don't they just overtake your car? C) Both speedometers are stating that both drivers are going at the speed limit. So that must mean the other driver knows if they overtook you they will get flashed by the speed camera, so they want you to speed up and get flashed just so that they can get to their destination a few seconds quicker. This happened to me once and option C seems the most likely explanation. Can anyone think of any other explanations?
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Re: Speeding!
[Re: JKD]
#1614753
20/01/2018 09:08
20/01/2018 09:08
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Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,621 Leicester UK
Ballypete
Club Member 1578
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Club Member 1578
My life on the forum
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,621
Leicester UK
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You're approaching a speed camera. According to your speedometer, you're driving at the speed limit. The driver behind you is driving really close to you, flashing their lights, jumping up and down in their seat, making aggressive expressions, wanting you to speed up. Is it because... A) Your speedometer is vastly overstating your speed. In which case why don't they just overtake your car? B) Their speedometer is vastly understating their speed. In which case why don't they just overtake your car? C) Both speedometers are stating that both drivers are going at the speed limit. So that must mean the other driver knows if they overtook you they will get flashed by the speed camera, so they want you to speed up and get flashed just so that they can get to their destination a few seconds quicker. This happened to me once and option C seems the most likely explanation. Can anyone think of any other explanations? I think it is option D) that in life wherever you are and whatever you doing there will always be a few ar**holes
Doris the 1998 Portofino Blue 20V and Zoe the 1999 Alfa Romeo 916 Spider Bog standard needn't be boring...
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