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Re: Track settings
[Re: ]
#1601179
23/05/2017 17:19
23/05/2017 17:19
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,252 Windsor/ Reading
knight7660
Competition Level
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Competition Level
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,252
Windsor/ Reading
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Well the BC fronts turned up today and i must say they look like a quality bit of kit. Ive used some cheap coil overs before including FK's and i must say these look very well made but we will see how they do on track.
At the moment they only do the BR series style coil overs if there is more interest later on (if more venture on track) Apex said they will push for a better set up out of there line.
LE53 (452BHp & 389ftlb's with Quaife) Wine red VIS FOOFY Audi RS4 B7
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Re: Track settings
[Re: ]
#1601222
24/05/2017 07:26
24/05/2017 07:26
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367 Staffordshire
Nigel
Forum veteran
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Forum veteran
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367
Staffordshire
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@ Stuart
I'm happy to put some text together which you can use in a wider article about handling. However, many of my posts over the years have generally about making the Coupe get round corners better / faster. This is only one aspect of "handling" - I'm also of the opinion that the best-handling Coupe for everyday use is one on standard wheels, good tyres, standard suspension and springs. The designers at Fiat knew what they were doing when they built the Coupe (albeit using an old chassis as a base and a compromised design as the basis for a sporty coupe). One of the very best handling Coupes I've ever driven was my own Moon Grey Plus, just after I bought it, when it had just 24,000 miles on the clock and was completely standard.
Most owners complaining of wayward handling are running on budget tyres, tired wishbones, original springs and shocks, or worse still, badly-matched springs and dampers, oversize wheels & tyres and daft amounts of camber caused by lowering too far.
Car handling is a bit of a dark art and its really easy to get it horribly wrong
I'll have a think about it and try to come up with some text
Last edited by Nigel; 24/05/2017 07:28.
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Re: Track settings
[Re: ]
#1607300
04/09/2017 17:06
04/09/2017 17:06
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 157 Surrey Hills, U.K
godders
On a journey
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On a journey
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 157
Surrey Hills, U.K
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Thought I would give an update on "Barry" my trackday car. I eventually chose BC BR Series Coilovers - basically what Adam had on the back of his car and has just got to put on the front. I've paired this with Elbach ARB's (front and rear). Solid (black) Powerflex bushes on front wishbones, droplinks etc. New VibroTechnic Engine mounts (as the originals were shagged). FCSS subframes (front and rear) Toyo R888R 225/45 16 tyres. Fundamentally the car is transformed. I have still some fettling in the front suspension as I think the front is a bit too low. There is insufficient adjustment in the pillow mounts to get any reasonable camber and as Nigel mentioned, MacPherson struts on lots of compression start to work against you and all that lovely neg' camber you've setup gets dialled out. General rule it seems on this sort of set-up is add more camber that you need as when you really compress the front suspension in a high speed bend the MacPherson will obligingly dial it out for you So I have some camber bolts, which I shall be fitting soon. The intention is to set the pillow mounts with maximum positive adjustment, set my camber with ~1 degree neg through the camber bolts and then I have the ability to easily dial in an extra 1.5 or so degrees and see how the car behaves. I've (well Joe FCSS has) also stripped all the airconn out from the engine bay, this has two benefits that I can see, I lose a bit of weight, and I also have better access to the aux belts, heat shield etc, also removing the aircon heat exchanger has got to improve airflow to the radiator to, though it does make room for an FMIC Back in July I took Barry with all this setup, my new Sparco Seats and Harnesses fitted to Snetterton. The car was massively better on the track than my first outing. Although I'm a bit of a newbie on all this trackday lark, the confidence on the car was great, I still thought it needed a bit more bight at the front and I feel/felt this was camber related. Last August bank holiday I was at DN18 - Nordschleife, for two days of the green ribbon. Prior to going I managed to dial-in some neg camber on the pillow mounts (to this point the coilovers were set-up as per factory). This certainly seemed to help (a bit). Overall I was happy with the performance of the car, interestingly I was slowed by significantly more expensive machinary - this could be down to experience on this circuit (I did DN16 last year in a Rent4Ring Swift), but also confidence in the car. My presumption is I was more confident in my car's handling than they were in theirs! So whats next? Well, Barry was not entirely reliable at the Nordschleife, nothing terminal, but just electrical and induction pipe work. So I need to spend a little time fixing the "wearing of age", so the EBV does not keep failing and the pipe from the intercooler does not pop off at 100+ I will also be taking him to someone who can do a weighting setup and with some proper Hunter gear some proper alignment etc. I'm also looking at doing the radiator fan fix so I can run these with the engine off, possibly also some way to help the coolant circulate too. I'm looking also to fit a glass fibre bonnet, again to shift some of that weight and re-locate the battery to the boot. Thats it for now, I'm planning one last track day for this year before I put Barry metaphorically to bed. Hope this is interesting and I would be pleased to receive any of your views?
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Re: Track settings
[Re: Nigel]
#1607355
05/09/2017 17:07
05/09/2017 17:07
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 157 Surrey Hills, U.K
godders
On a journey
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On a journey
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 157
Surrey Hills, U.K
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Hi Nigel, Referring back to this original thread: http://www.fiatcoupeclub.org/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1547540&page=4Trappy's Coupe was set with ~1 degree of neg camber and from the picture seems to have the pillow mount right inboard (i.e at maximum adjustment). I'll take some photo's of my top mounts and post. As for whether these are Asyms or not - no idea, let me try and investigate this. What I would say is I'm not suffering the caster issues Trappy experienced in the above noted thread, also bowling down the Bridge to Gantry at an indicated 145mph the car felt solid, so I think my caster and toe (though absolutely needs checking) is reasonable. Your point of front ARB is a good one and I can only test that out, so I'll add that to my list of things to investigate. Yeah, I am having a lot of fun. I actually think the Coupe is quite a good car to fiddle with (though I suspect the Clio Williams people will argue differently), once I have a suspension setup I'm happy with and where I'm able to do good track times because I have a reasonable handling car, rather than 500bhp to zoom down the straights and then boil my brakes at the corner, I'll look to up the HP a little Quoting Colin Chapman: "Adding power makes you faster on the straights. Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere." - I would also add that making a car handle is a double win, as not only do you improve your on track performance, but you need less emphasis on brakes and cooling! Anyway thanks for the reply and I'll "post me tops mounts" in the next few days. Regards Sg
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Re: Track settings
[Re: ]
#1609054
06/10/2017 11:49
06/10/2017 11:49
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 157 Surrey Hills, U.K
godders
On a journey
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On a journey
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 157
Surrey Hills, U.K
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Hi Andy,
Sorry for slow reply.
I believe you can get adjustable pillow mounts, but the effort to fit these to the turret's I don't know - hopefully others can confirm here. Do you have camber bolts fitted? as these are the alternative to adjusting camber and are quite easy to fit - though get yourself a camber gauge first.
Agree about the turbo, mine's doing the same, while I sit in the pit lane my car is smoking like a teenager!! Goes soon as I'm on circuit, but I do just find it embarrassing.
I think my next “tuning” purchase is probably Quaife Diff and probably a Turbo upgrade, though replacing the seals I don’t think is massively expensive, so I’ll have to see, forcing Barry on a further diet is also the plan as less weight effectively means better acceleration, fitting fibre glass bonnet saves around 35-40 kilo’s so thats losing a decent amount of weight and importantly from the front!
I’ve still got these tyres for you if you’re still interested, need to sort a time when I’m next driving upt’ north!!
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Re: Track settings
[Re: ]
#1609059
06/10/2017 13:58
06/10/2017 13:58
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,252 Windsor/ Reading
knight7660
Competition Level
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Competition Level
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,252
Windsor/ Reading
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I do love reading this thread because its good to see the coupe being used for what i use mine for mostly.
Keep it up and i think a Uk coupe track day would be an idea if you both fancy it
LE53 (452BHp & 389ftlb's with Quaife) Wine red VIS FOOFY Audi RS4 B7
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Re: Track settings
[Re: godders]
#1609761
16/10/2017 15:27
16/10/2017 15:27
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 157 Surrey Hills, U.K
godders
On a journey
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On a journey
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 157
Surrey Hills, U.K
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Nigel, Eventually, I have some pictures of my BC Top mounts: Nearside TM And Offside TM As you can see these do not have an offset or bias, so this is keeping the existing caster (least thats my interpretation). Thanks Regards Sg
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Re: Track settings
[Re: knight7660]
#1609762
16/10/2017 15:31
16/10/2017 15:31
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 157 Surrey Hills, U.K
godders
On a journey
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On a journey
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 157
Surrey Hills, U.K
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Hi Adam, Glad your enjoying the thread, I also did not realize you were such a whizz with a paint brush, so wash it out well as I've got plenty for the brush and you on my place Absolutely up for a UK Coupe trackday, I just missed out on the Silverstone GP on the 6th Nov (Circuit-days) But I intend to get a last day in November, especially after my camber bolt fettling of recent. Regards Sg
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Re: Track settings
[Re: godders]
#1610638
27/10/2017 22:51
27/10/2017 22:51
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,252 Windsor/ Reading
knight7660
Competition Level
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Competition Level
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,252
Windsor/ Reading
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there is brands 25 or 26th o November if people are interested i know Joe would like to squeeze another in before the year is out but is very busy and weekends is the only time he will be able to do it Hi Adam Glad your enjoying the thread, I also did not realize you were such a whizz with a paint brush, so wash it out well as I've got plenty for the brush and you on my place Absolutely up for a UK Coupe trackday, I just missed out on the Silverstone GP on the 6th Nov (Circuit-days) But I intend to get a last day in November, especially after my camber bolt fettling of recent. Regards Sg
LE53 (452BHp & 389ftlb's with Quaife) Wine red VIS FOOFY Audi RS4 B7
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Re: Track settings
[Re: knight7660]
#1610959
03/11/2017 20:22
03/11/2017 20:22
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 157 Surrey Hills, U.K
godders
On a journey
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On a journey
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 157
Surrey Hills, U.K
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oohh, you temptress Adam!! Just edited this post, as i’ve now realised this is US Thanks Giving weekend and so I will be away I do see that there is a Saturday at Brands on 9th Dec’ is that too late in the year, Joe might have been able to extract himself from under his Coupes by then Let me know if you want to try and sync up cheers Sg
Last edited by godders; 04/11/2017 09:25. Reason: Didn’t check my diary first
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