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Talk of Revised Speeding Fine Hikes?
#1599902
04/05/2017 21:25
04/05/2017 21:25
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 220 Portsmouth
Mark_D
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Portsmouth
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Does anyone know if they've implemented a stiffer fining system that is being posted on YouTube, or is this just scaremongering?
Fiat Coupe 20vt Fiat Punto Mk2 Sporting Suzuki GSX-R 1000 K2
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Re: Talk of Revised Speeding Fine Hikes?
[Re: Mark_D]
#1599910
05/05/2017 04:36
05/05/2017 04:36
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 220 Portsmouth
Mark_D
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I know mate, it just seems to be now,..."What can we do to next to depress the shit out of the public, better still, extort more money out of them!"
Don't get me wrong, I don't believe in driving like a complete idiot, but I was baited by an unmarked police car on the way to work one morning. The Copper was right up my backside and when I increased speed a bit to make some space, he pulled me over....that's the game they play now unfortunately!
Fiat Coupe 20vt Fiat Punto Mk2 Sporting Suzuki GSX-R 1000 K2
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Re: Talk of Revised Speeding Fine Hikes?
[Re: Mark_D]
#1599923
05/05/2017 08:48
05/05/2017 08:48
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 220 Portsmouth
Mark_D
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Whatever the case, it all boils down to extortion. We are just an easy target for extracting cash out of. This country is getting worse by the minute
Fiat Coupe 20vt Fiat Punto Mk2 Sporting Suzuki GSX-R 1000 K2
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Re: Talk of Revised Speeding Fine Hikes?
[Re: Mark_D]
#1599931
05/05/2017 10:55
05/05/2017 10:55
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 220 Portsmouth
Mark_D
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Lol, I'll bear that in mind!
What concerns me though is the talk about doing people for being 1 or 2 mph over the limit which I think is using these changes to make money out of people who haven't necessarily speeded deliberately
Fiat Coupe 20vt Fiat Punto Mk2 Sporting Suzuki GSX-R 1000 K2
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Re: Talk of Revised Speeding Fine Hikes?
[Re: Mark_D]
#1599935
05/05/2017 11:50
05/05/2017 11:50
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,610 S. Wales. Way beyond my means
Gripped
Club member 1924
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Club member 1924
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They'll still have to make an allowance for the accuracy of speedo's and other uncertainties. This is around 10% +2mph, so in a 50mph limit, you can do 57 without a ticket.
Therefore on the motorway you can theoretically do 79mph... lots of people drive an indicated 80ish, so that seems to fit the rule of thumb.
Obviously, the lower the limit, the lower the allowance. So in a 20 limit, 24mph will get you a ticket.
Last edited by Gripped; 05/05/2017 11:52.
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Re: Talk of Revised Speeding Fine Hikes?
[Re: Mark_D]
#1599952
05/05/2017 13:48
05/05/2017 13:48
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 220 Portsmouth
Mark_D
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As long as they play by those rules that shouldn't be too bad. As I stated earlier though, I've had a taste of the Police's underhanded tactics when I was baited by an unmarked on the way to work, and a colleague had the same on his motorbike.
I think it's just a case of being aware of the sneaky games that they play to lure people into traps, and to watch your speeds when approaching areas with speed changes (as this is normally where they hide camera vans).
Also, if you intentionally tear around like an F1 driver to expect that one day you're going pay the price,....a hefty price!
Fiat Coupe 20vt Fiat Punto Mk2 Sporting Suzuki GSX-R 1000 K2
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Re: Talk of Revised Speeding Fine Hikes?
[Re: barnacle]
#1599975
05/05/2017 18:43
05/05/2017 18:43
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,610 S. Wales. Way beyond my means
Gripped
Club member 1924
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Club member 1924
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Speeding is a binary offence: you either are, or you aren't. The 2mph + 10% is not law, it's just the ACPO guideline - and it's possibly one of the issues: if the limit was enforced at the limit, and not some arbitrary point above it, there would be an awful lot less speeding. I did say it was a 'rule of thumb,' but you'd have a very good case to challenge a ticket if you were within the uncertainty allowance. In the work I do, we allow different "uncertainty budgets" for each monitoring method. Some are as high as 20% and increase to 50% or more as you get closer to the limit of detection. So, I would argue that whether or not you are speeding is a calculation, not binary choice. The uncertainty of the radar / lazer gun might be 3%, then you have to account for other factors, such the wildly inaccurate car speedos which usually over-read by 5mph, but not always. I agree that if we stuck to indicated speed, life would be simpler. But enforcing law is more complicated, and regulators must be proportionate and allow some benefit of the doubt. I shall continue to drive at 69mph. I did a BikeSafe Course, and the Police were at pains to teach us to ride to the conditions, rather than the speed limit. If people slowed down for rain and fog and maintained proper distances on the motorway, the actual speed limit becomes less important. Re-discovered emoticons.....
Last edited by Gripped; 05/05/2017 18:45.
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Re: Talk of Revised Speeding Fine Hikes?
[Re: Gripped]
#1599976
05/05/2017 18:47
05/05/2017 18:47
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 6,144 Southampton, Hants
Roadking
Club member 1809
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Club member 1809
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RAC article explained that the increased fines would be for particularly dangerous occurrences, repeat offenders or those who challenge or fail to respond to a NIP. Otherwise the fine is £100. Apparently the 1.5 times is an up from 1 x your weekly wage/whatever which it was under those circumstances.
Last edited by Roadking; 05/05/2017 18:48.
"RK's way seems the most sensible to me". ali_hire 16 Dec 2010
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Re: Talk of Revised Speeding Fine Hikes?
[Re: Gripped]
#1599988
05/05/2017 21:54
05/05/2017 21:54
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,568 Berlin
barnacle
Club Member 18 - ex-Minister without Portfolio
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Club Member 18 - ex-Minister without Portfolio
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Berlin
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So, I would argue that whether or not you are speeding is a calculation, not binary choice.
A philosophical point - however, the difference between 60mph and 61mph is 1.5 percent; no problem to measure with any of the three most common methods. And speedos are allowed to read high but never low...
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Re: Talk of Revised Speeding Fine Hikes?
[Re: barnacle]
#1599989
05/05/2017 22:05
05/05/2017 22:05
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,610 S. Wales. Way beyond my means
Gripped
Club member 1924
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Club member 1924
Forum is my job
Joined: Dec 2005
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And speedos are allowed to read high but never low... Yep, for most speedo's the argument is academic, since they over-read. But, my campervan reads bang on the GPS speed, so there is some variance to account for. Would be nice to have the French motorway system of 68mph wet and 81mph dry. The unofficial UK speed limit appears to be around 80 - 85 anyway on clear motorways. Vive la France. I really do rather like their cheese too, with a nice glass of Côtes du Rhône. I often think it's the ideal country. Hot summers. Great skiing, the Atlantic AND the Med. Lots of space. Great trains.... And "we" go and vote Brexit. I really am still so depressed.
Last edited by Gripped; 05/05/2017 22:06.
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Re: Talk of Revised Speeding Fine Hikes?
[Re: Mark_D]
#1600011
06/05/2017 11:51
06/05/2017 11:51
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Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,621 Leicester UK
Ballypete
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Ultimately it's a speed limit and not a target - drive at the limit all the time and you have nowhere to go if you need to increase speed to avoid an incident. i guess it's down to the individual about how they drive - and to take the hit if caught out 👍
Doris the 1998 Portofino Blue 20V and Zoe the 1999 Alfa Romeo 916 Spider Bog standard needn't be boring...
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Re: Talk of Revised Speeding Fine Hikes?
[Re: Mark_D]
#1600076
07/05/2017 21:10
07/05/2017 21:10
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 220 Portsmouth
Mark_D
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I think I'm just going polish my car up, make it look nice then put it in my house as a classy ornament! I think I'd avoid tickets and turn a few heads at the same time! Got to be a win, win situation
Last edited by Mark_D; 07/05/2017 21:10.
Fiat Coupe 20vt Fiat Punto Mk2 Sporting Suzuki GSX-R 1000 K2
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Re: Talk of Revised Speeding Fine Hikes?
[Re: barnacle]
#1600102
08/05/2017 07:44
08/05/2017 07:44
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 220 Portsmouth
Mark_D
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Sorted! (and then you get done for not making proper progress...) Yes, think that's generally known as 'Catch 22!' Lol
Fiat Coupe 20vt Fiat Punto Mk2 Sporting Suzuki GSX-R 1000 K2
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Re: Talk of Revised Speeding Fine Hikes?
[Re: Mark_D]
#1600619
16/05/2017 14:41
16/05/2017 14:41
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,617 SE Essex
charlie_croker
I need some sleep
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I need some sleep
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Posts: 2,617
SE Essex
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The law HAS NOT changed, only the Sentencing Guidelines have. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38724301 These only apply if you end up in Court and the fact is you most probably won't, quite simply the court system could not cope with millions of people, thats why the Fixed Penalty System was introduced! And even if you do end up there, get a good brief and you should be OK.
Happy
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Re: Talk of Revised Speeding Fine Hikes?
[Re: Mark_D]
#1600675
17/05/2017 04:35
17/05/2017 04:35
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 220 Portsmouth
Mark_D
OP
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I've had a couple of tickets in the 25 yrs I've been driving, and that is just because of my own ignorance. I got caught once where they'd placed a well hidden van smack bang next to a speed change, and the other one was when they reduced the speed on a street that I turned into, that I hadn't been down for years. A cop with a handheld was pinging people at the end of the road.
I think they tend to cash in on people who have genuinely cocked up, where as people who blatantly speed should be the Ines they focus on
Fiat Coupe 20vt Fiat Punto Mk2 Sporting Suzuki GSX-R 1000 K2
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Re: Talk of Revised Speeding Fine Hikes?
[Re: Mark_D]
#1600698
17/05/2017 09:21
17/05/2017 09:21
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Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,621 Leicester UK
Ballypete
Club Member 1578
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I've had a couple of tickets in the 25 yrs I've been driving, and that is just because of my own ignorance. I got caught once where they'd placed a well hidden van smack bang next to a speed change, and the other one was when they reduced the speed on a street that I turned into, that I hadn't been down for years. A cop with a handheld was pinging people at the end of the road.
I think they tend to cash in on people who have genuinely cocked up, where as people who blatantly speed should be the Ines they focus on Unfortunately there is no difference between speeding if you 'genuinely cock up' and blatant/deliberate speeding as it's what's called an absolute offence. In other words unless you can prove you were not speeding then in law you are guilty whether you intended to or not. So both scenarios are fair game.
Doris the 1998 Portofino Blue 20V and Zoe the 1999 Alfa Romeo 916 Spider Bog standard needn't be boring...
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Re: Talk of Revised Speeding Fine Hikes?
[Re: Mark_D]
#1600699
17/05/2017 09:27
17/05/2017 09:27
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 220 Portsmouth
Mark_D
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I know, it's just one of those things you've got to accept. Just a choker if it happens
Fiat Coupe 20vt Fiat Punto Mk2 Sporting Suzuki GSX-R 1000 K2
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Re: Talk of Revised Speeding Fine Hikes?
[Re: Mark_D]
#1600700
17/05/2017 09:35
17/05/2017 09:35
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Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,621 Leicester UK
Ballypete
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I know, it's just one of those things you've got to accept. Just a choker if it happens Yep- been there myself and paid the penalty,(38 in a 30 at 10pm with no one around) then later the next day knocked someone off for the same thing once I was on shift... he was doing 58 in a 30 at school kicking out time though.
Doris the 1998 Portofino Blue 20V and Zoe the 1999 Alfa Romeo 916 Spider Bog standard needn't be boring...
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Re: Talk of Revised Speeding Fine Hikes?
[Re: Mark_D]
#1600715
17/05/2017 14:10
17/05/2017 14:10
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 220 Portsmouth
Mark_D
OP
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OP
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You'll never guess what?,...ironically, I think I may have just been caught yet again! Came back from work at about 11.45. I was just following along with the flow of traffic through Hilsea in Portsmouth and I spotted a camera van. I was doing at or just under 40 (like most people around me at the time). Looks like a punch in the goolies is coming my way!
God in heaven, I can see myself having to crawl around like an O.A.P for fear of another ticket. Again, just keeping up with the traffic and finding out I'm one of the many that is probably going too fast
Fiat Coupe 20vt Fiat Punto Mk2 Sporting Suzuki GSX-R 1000 K2
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Re: Talk of Revised Speeding Fine Hikes?
[Re: Mark_D]
#1600716
17/05/2017 14:11
17/05/2017 14:11
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 220 Portsmouth
Mark_D
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58 in a 30 really is taking the p though! See, I really can't condone that
Fiat Coupe 20vt Fiat Punto Mk2 Sporting Suzuki GSX-R 1000 K2
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Re: Talk of Revised Speeding Fine Hikes?
[Re: Mark_D]
#1600719
17/05/2017 14:32
17/05/2017 14:32
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Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,621 Leicester UK
Ballypete
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You'll never guess what?,...ironically, I think I may have just been caught yet again! Came back from work at about 11.45. I was just following along with the flow of traffic through Hilsea in Portsmouth and I spotted a camera van. I was doing at or just under 40 (like most people around me at the time). Looks like a punch in the goolies is coming my way!
God in heaven, I can see myself having to crawl around like an O.A.P for fear of another ticket. Again, just keeping up with the traffic and finding out I'm one of the many that is probably going too fast Fingers crossed you will be ok with that one then...
Doris the 1998 Portofino Blue 20V and Zoe the 1999 Alfa Romeo 916 Spider Bog standard needn't be boring...
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Re: Talk of Revised Speeding Fine Hikes?
[Re: Ballypete]
#1600724
17/05/2017 16:59
17/05/2017 16:59
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,852 Cambridge & Cotswolds
MeanRedSpider
Je suis un Coupé
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Je suis un Coupé
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Posts: 8,852
Cambridge & Cotswolds
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I've had a couple of tickets in the 25 yrs I've been driving, and that is just because of my own ignorance. I got caught once where they'd placed a well hidden van smack bang next to a speed change, and the other one was when they reduced the speed on a street that I turned into, that I hadn't been down for years. A cop with a handheld was pinging people at the end of the road.
I think they tend to cash in on people who have genuinely cocked up, where as people who blatantly speed should be the Ines they focus on Unfortunately there is no difference between speeding if you 'genuinely cock up' and blatant/deliberate speeding as it's what's called an absolute offence. In other words unless you can prove you were not speeding then in law you are guilty whether you intended to or not. So both scenarios are fair game. My understanding (bourne out by experience in Scotland myself and from Stan, traffic cop, of this parish) is that there's still a "public interest" test. When I got ticketed I had Charlie (13) in the car. He'd been away from home for a month, was wheelchair-bound from a massive recent cancer op, was feeling sick from recent chemo and needed the toilet (not many of those on the A9 in the evening). The road was clear and visibility was great. It was a 3-hour drive. The procurator fiscal in Inverness decided that it wasn't in the public interest to pinch me. I did explain in my letter that I would do the same thing again and expected any parent would.
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Re: Talk of Revised Speeding Fine Hikes?
[Re: Mark_D]
#1600729
17/05/2017 18:00
17/05/2017 18:00
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Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,621 Leicester UK
Ballypete
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Not too sure of law difference in Scotland but sounds like a common sense approach too! Yes PI test can be applied later when weighing up the whole picture in circs such as you describe, and other situations eg getting injured person to hospital etc etc. These situations are the exceptions rather than the rule I think?
Doris the 1998 Portofino Blue 20V and Zoe the 1999 Alfa Romeo 916 Spider Bog standard needn't be boring...
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