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The Future of Diesel Engines
#1591000
29/12/2016 13:57
29/12/2016 13:57
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 13,200 england
came2dance
OP
I AM a Coop
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OP
I AM a Coop
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 13,200
england
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Diesel engines have come on in leaps and bounds performance wise these last 10 years but modern petrol engines are now offering pretty high MPG figures too*, so, given the current dislike of Diesel engines and the moves to ban them from major cities Diesel engines to be banned will manufacturers continue to develop and ship new units? Some cars, like my own Kia Soul* (I know, I know )are available as diesel variants only. Will manufacturers concentrate on developing petrol engines for these, continue with diesel or just drop the models? *Kia soul - crap 2.0 ltr diesel engine averaging 40mpg BMW 4 series 2.0 ltr petrol averaging 50 mpg What do you think?
www.chrisdoyle-photography.co.uk
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Re: The Future of Diesel Engines
[Re: bockers]
#1591006
29/12/2016 16:29
29/12/2016 16:29
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TbirdX
Unregistered
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TbirdX
Unregistered
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in 5yrs time Diesels will be phased out in cars as more cities talk about banning them, the public will avoid being left with an unsaleable car. While I can see that for cars, I'm not sure it'd work for lorries and other heavy vehicles.
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Re: The Future of Diesel Engines
[Re: bockers]
#1591007
29/12/2016 16:31
29/12/2016 16:31
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,831 Haslemere, Surrey
Mark_S
Forum is my job
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Forum is my job
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,831
Haslemere, Surrey
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IMHO diesels should be be banned and a scrapage scheme started. I own a diesel and okay when new and used out of town, but so many old smoking and polluting dogs on road with numbers that will just go on growing as they soldier on for monster low maint. miles.
Stick with forced induction petrol and or hybrid's if we must.
997 C4S
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Re: The Future of Diesel Engines
[Re: whatmoretyres]
#1591579
09/01/2017 03:35
09/01/2017 03:35
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,072 South Cambs
Barmybob
Hon Club Member: 003
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Hon Club Member: 003
Je suis un Coupé
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Posts: 8,072
South Cambs
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The efficient petrol engines are indeed forced induction, to get the torque but almost all will be direct injection engines too.
These engines have two main drawbacks.
1. CARBON
Manufacturers have been working hard to find ways to reduce carbon on petrol DI's (catalytic valves for example) but it is still an issue. If carbon build up is left untreated fuel consumption soars, power is reduced and eventually it will probably kill the cats too. Using premium fuels with detergents does help and this is often recommended in the owners manual of some cars. This though significantly increases the running costs so many owners choose to ignore!
2. Emissions
The direct injection of petrol does get the CO2 to drop significantly. However the inefficiency of fuel air mixing within Petrol DI engines often causes them to produce MORE particulate matter than modern diesels. To meet Euro 6 emissions some DI petrol engines now also need a particulate filter in addition to the CAT.
A Euro 6 3.0 Tdi with it's cheap car tax, more than reasonable power and reasonable economy currently makes more sense than a petrol, so I'll stick with that for now.
Gone Audi mad!
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Re: The Future of Diesel Engines
[Re: came2dance]
#1591694
10/01/2017 13:48
10/01/2017 13:48
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Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 575 Ayrshire
ScouseCoupe
Enjoying the ride
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Enjoying the ride
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 575
Ayrshire
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I am seeing a trend over the past 6 months as its inevitable I will need to change my 2 Ton Diesel SUV as the road Tax is not getting cheaper, already over £300 a year and economy will not be winning any prizes.
Those of us who have a diesel car know that we may of paid upwards £2000+ more over the equivalent petrol car, but it seems of late that the depreciation on a diesel is worse than it used to be compared to a petrol. Another thing I see, is where a diesel car is more expensive to buy new, like for like with a petrol, at 1 year old, both petrol / diesel cars are more or less the same price and that large price diff does not really exist. But generally people are still buying diesels even if they are potting around town doing less than 5000 miles a year, but dealers are just interested in peddling the advertised mpg figures I think.
To be fair I am myself are leaning towards a petrol turbocharged car as their overall economy in the real world etc etc has significantly improved over the last 15 years, when I converted to the former Pug HDi diesel engines.
Last edited by ScouseCoupe; 10/01/2017 13:51. Reason: autocorrect
1999 Rosso Corsa 20VT ( Restored ) 2000 Rosso Alfa 916 Spider 2.0 T.S Lusso ( Under Restoration)
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Re: The Future of Diesel Engines
[Re: ScouseCoupe]
#1591699
10/01/2017 14:25
10/01/2017 14:25
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Jonny
Unregistered
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Jonny
Unregistered
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I've just taken delivery of a BMW 640d. As people say, the diesel engine may be coming to an end in road cars, so I thought I 'd try a high power one.
Very similar in terms of performance to my Jag 4.2 supercharged V8, though real world relaxed driving it's quicker due to the lower powerband and instant gearchanges.
What shocks me is in Eco Pro it's more economical on short town journeys (from cold) than the Ecoboost Ford I hired and not far off a basic Fabia TSI. On the motorway it's better. The you put it in Sport+ and it may as well be the Jag, with a silly turn of speed; just with less aural excitement. Astonishing flexibility.
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Re: The Future of Diesel Engines
[Re: ]
#1591705
10/01/2017 15:04
10/01/2017 15:04
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367 Staffordshire
Nigel
Forum veteran
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Forum veteran
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367
Staffordshire
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I've just taken delivery of a BMW 640d. Nice - I once had a run-in with one of these and had to work the Coupe very hard to reel it in - extremely impressive piece of kit, and definitely on my radar if I find myself in a position to afford one What kind of mpg are you getting?
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Re: The Future of Diesel Engines
[Re: Nigel]
#1591713
10/01/2017 16:39
10/01/2017 16:39
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Jonny
Unregistered
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Jonny
Unregistered
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They're a bargain, either leased or bought new/second hand.
I've only done 300 miles due to Christmas etc, but on my 4 miles cold journey 30mpg isn't too hard and once warm round town it's well into the 30s. Motorway, I've only done one decent journey so far and was probably about 45mpg on a 30 mile round trip with traffic at either end. The Eco Pro dulls the engine a bit, but the main thing is it decouples the drivetrain whenever it can. The point is, you can have the best of both, save fuel when there's no point trying to get somewhere quickly and when the road is clear...
Plus if it isn't new, they can be tuned to ludicrous figures with better mpg. I know Leighton has done a couple of the 35d engines.
I'll do a review when I've done a few more miles.
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Re: The Future of Diesel Engines
[Re: came2dance]
#1591724
10/01/2017 17:29
10/01/2017 17:29
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,290 Staffs
Dazvr6
My job on the forum
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My job on the forum
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,290
Staffs
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My dad has a 435d x-drive which really surprised me performance wise, so a 640d must have a mountain of torque!
Last edited by Dazvr6; 10/01/2017 17:29.
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Re: The Future of Diesel Engines
[Re: ]
#1592089
16/01/2017 14:03
16/01/2017 14:03
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suba
Unregistered
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suba
Unregistered
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I borrowed my brothers 325d a while back for a few days, which had had the dpf gutted and a re-map. I was genuinely suprised how quick it was - still hate the clatter on start etc. though.
He's now got a Jag XF 3.0d - with re-map and DPF removal it's just over 500 lbs / ft. and 40mpg on a run.... not had a go in it yet though.
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Re: The Future of Diesel Engines
[Re: ]
#1592127
16/01/2017 22:52
16/01/2017 22:52
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,072 South Cambs
Barmybob
Hon Club Member: 003
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Hon Club Member: 003
Je suis un Coupé
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,072
South Cambs
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325d.... which had had the dpf gutted....... Jag XF 3.0d - with re-map and DPF removal. Does he use red Diesel too?
Gone Audi mad!
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Re: The Future of Diesel Engines
[Re: ]
#1592141
16/01/2017 23:32
16/01/2017 23:32
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,072 South Cambs
Barmybob
Hon Club Member: 003
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Hon Club Member: 003
Je suis un Coupé
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,072
South Cambs
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but the main thing is it decouples the drivetrain whenever it can. The new Audi (B9) 3.0 Tdi's have this feature in ECO mode. A friend has one of the new B9's and recently we've been running brim to brim fuel comparisons. The newer car is more punchy with 270hp, 600nm of torque and the decoupling 8 speed DSG gearbox. My B8.5 has 245hp, 500nm and a 7 speed DSG. The changes Audi have made are though having an alarming effect on economy. I am managing to get just shy of 39mpg (Brim to brim) but my friends new car is returning late 40's During September I had the lower powered (218) Audi 3.0 A4 for a week. That was returning 60+ mpg on the computer and I thought it was just being hugely optimistic, maybe it wasn't far off
Gone Audi mad!
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Re: The Future of Diesel Engines
[Re: Barmybob]
#1592156
17/01/2017 08:21
17/01/2017 08:21
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Jonny
Unregistered
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Jonny
Unregistered
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Yes it's amazing how well it works. I'd say it's 30% more efficient on the BMW. Odd feeling to get used to though. It knows the gradient of the roads and tells you when to take your foot off.
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Re: The Future of Diesel Engines
[Re: ]
#1592188
17/01/2017 21:55
17/01/2017 21:55
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,072 South Cambs
Barmybob
Hon Club Member: 003
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Hon Club Member: 003
Je suis un Coupé
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,072
South Cambs
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Yes it's amazing how well it works. I'd say it's 30% more efficient on the BMW. Odd feeling to get used to though. It knows the gradient of the roads and tells you when to take your foot off. Ha, yes. When I had the A4 I had to stop and get the manual out. I couldn't work out what the accelerator graphic, which kept changing colour, was all about
Gone Audi mad!
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Re: The Future of Diesel Engines
[Re: barnacle]
#1592375
20/01/2017 15:26
20/01/2017 15:26
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suba
Unregistered
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suba
Unregistered
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One hears of so many of these 'wonderful performance cars with legally required parts disabled/removed and the engine remapped' and can't help wondering how much worse they are to the environment than even a bog standard diesel? I'd love to see the emissions results on a modern diesel whilst it's mid trying to re-gen a clogged DPF..... probably more than makes up for the reduction in running one in the first place.
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